+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 533 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Sometimes I like to flip the coin over and look at the other side, we're doing that today, we've had plenty of people on who have been mis diagnosed as having type two diabetes when they're young. But if you ever talked to somebody who was correctly diagnosed with Type two, in their teens, you're about to because Haley is here, and she is super awesome. Really great conversation, slightly different perspective, and yet wonderful information for you. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Haley is an insulin dependent type two diabetic, she's only 24 years old, I think you're gonna really enjoy this. So settle in wherever you are, unless you're driving, if you're driving, please stay focused. And I guess if you're doing the dishes to don't reach in and grab something sharp in the soapy water, that would also be bad. Anyway, let's get started, shall we?

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, and the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump. You know both of those things have something in common, you can use them. If you're using insulin, you don't have to be just type one type twos can benefit from this stuff, just as much. Anyway, I'll tell you more about it later. But for now, you can learn more@dexcom.com Ford slash juice box and find out about that on the pod and the Omni pod promise at Omni pod.com Ford slash juicebox. links in the show notes. Links at Juicebox podcast.com. Here comes Haley.

Hailey 2:15
My name is Hailey. I live in North Carolina. And I've been a type two diabetic since I was 16 years old. And I'm 24 now so I'm looking at about seven and a half years. Wow.

Scott Benner 2:24
Okay, Haley, thank you. It is not easy to get type twos to come on the show. So I appreciate you doing it. I have long thought that this podcast could be helpful to type two diabetics. And I'm you're on my first step in trying to make that come true for people. So no pressure, but the fate of the world. No, just kidding.

Unknown Speaker 2:50
But well,

Hailey 2:51
it really has been helpful. Last week, I was actually I was listening to a lot of the the keto episodes, and I'm insulin dependent, an insulin dependent since I was 19. So it's actually helpful listening to a lot of the insulin tips you've got to.

Scott Benner 3:08
That's excellent. I'm super excited. Let me dig into this a little bit. Because I feel like it would be that most people would hear that at 16. You were diagnosed with Type two most people with type one would hear that and think Oh, she was probably miss diagnose, and they just don't know yet. And but you've had this diagnosis for eight years, is that right?

Hailey 3:27
Right. And you don't know how many times I've told people I'm type two diabetic, and I'm only 24 years old. And they asked me No, no, you're a type two. I mean, you're a type one, or are you sure you're a type two. And I actually have had the antibody test on the C peptide test. And it all came back normal. So that's pretty much confirmed that I'm type two. Do you know why people

Scott Benner 3:49
would say that? It's because so many type ones are misdiagnosed as type twos. In the beginning?

Hailey 3:55
Yes, I've actually, that's actually what persuaded me to do a little bit of research on it, and then asked my endocrinologist for the blood test to get it done is it's a pretty big percentage of type twos that get diagnosed with especially with later type 1.5. But I think a lot of them are also are mis diagnosed over 30 years old too.

Scott Benner 4:17
You know, I'm just I know this is strange, but I'm fluttering inside. Like I feel like I'm 18 and I saw my Heather Thomas poster for the first time again, which is just the reference no one will get but I'm super excited to talk to you. I'm realizing as you represent the other side of a one way mirror to me, like like, how many conversations have I had with type ones who tell these long stories about you know, they said I was type two, they put me on Metformin, I was miserable for years. You know, all this stuff happened to my health and it's such a I just had someone on recently, you know who had happened to and it's such a terrible story. Never like thinking about The other side of the story and flipping things around and saying to yourself, what about all the people who are diagnosed, that are type two that fit in that space that we never meet and never know about? So tell me a little bit about it. How did type two diabetes present when you were 16?

Hailey 5:17
Well, it actually started when I was a little bit younger, I was 12, or 13. And I can't remember why. But my mom wanted me to get blood work done. So I did. And my ANC came back a little bit high. They told me I was pre diabetic. And then, once a year, I would just go back and get blood work done, get blood work done. And my agency just kept going up and up, and finally reached that threshold of diabetes. And they diagnosed me. They put me on Metformin. It was the August, September, August before I started my senior year of high school. So quite an interesting time.

Scott Benner 5:51
Yeah, nothing like getting something that people think about is like, Oh, yeah, my grandmother has that when you're that age. That must have been really strange, right?

Hailey 6:02
It was really strange. And my mom is type two as well. She's been type two. Oh, gosh, I can't remember how long I was pretty young when she got diagnosed. But I guess that's what sparked care concern. And ever since I was a teenager, I've always been a little bit overweight, and I was my maximum weight when I was diagnosed. So I weighed 225 pounds at 16 years old. So I've since lost quite a bit of that weight. And then I got back on insulin and gained some of that, but it was hard hearing, like, Oh, you got diagnosed, because because you're overweight because you're fat. And whether or not that's true, or whether it's more genetics. That's a different story for a different time, I guess. But when you're 16 years old, it's hard to hear that.

Scott Benner 6:49
Yeah, no kidding. I can imagine. Would you consider your mom overweight?

Hailey 6:55
She is she's, I don't consider either of us obese by any means, but definitely a little bit of extra pounds there for both of us. Yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 7:04
just trying to figure out how familial the entire thing is, so your mom has type two struggles with weight a little bit? You are as well. Can I ask you? For context? At 16? Did you feel like you ate poorly? Or did you feel like the no matter what you did this, this was happening?

Hailey 7:26
A little bit of both. We tried to eat healthy at home. But then you know, I had a boyfriend at the time. And I had lots of friends that I would go out with and we would just eat unhealthy foods when we would go out because you know, you're 16 go get a pizza, you go get burgers or whatever. So it was kind of like a during the week I ate pretty healthy during the weekend. I did not so much. Gotcha. Yeah. And I can't exactly say I did 100% of what I probably should have been doing to try to keep my blood sugar's down at the time. But you know, when you're 16, you don't really understand that.

Scott Benner 8:04
You also weren't eating any differently than your like friend group. Within reason.

Hailey 8:09
That's true. It's not like I spent all day every day shoving, you know, greasy burgers into my mouth.

Scott Benner 8:14
Yeah, no, I just want people to have context. Because if it was just if it was just one thing, or the other than everybody in that group would have the same outcome. You don't I mean, like if it was just as easy as Oh, she didn't eat well. So she got type two diabetes that's on her, then that would have happened all those other people as well. It's not that simple. You obviously have. I mean, it would seem to me a genetic predisposition to it. And, you know, well, how old was your mom when she was diagnosed? You have any idea? She was in her 40s? I can't remember exactly. Which would still be young, I would think if it was, you know, but I don't know, when I was younger. Type Two Diabetes is something that happened to people slowly over time, if it happened to them, you know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like, you didn't hear a lot of people getting it when they were 20. He didn't even hear a lot of people happening in their 30s or 40s was like one of those things that, you know, I hate to say it, but like my grandmother got when she was in her late 60s, you know, like, all the sudden the doctor was like, yo, you're a one sees too high. You have type two diabetes, we're gonna give you some medicine and try to change your diet a little bit. That was literally the beginning and end of it, you know? And then obviously, it's become more than that. And it's prevalent in society right now. You know, we could like you said, you could dig down deep and why if it's, you know, processed foods and, and you know, that kind of stuff that's literally changing people's DNA as as you know, as time goes on. But for us, and why you're here and why I'm excited that you're here. Let me see if this makes sense to you and see how helpful you think you can be in this. You're going to be a little more of a partner than an interviewee in this conversation. Sorry. But so it's my, I maintain that the reason this podcast is valuable for people who use insulin in general, and, you know, I guess it started out for people with type one diabetes, but is that it unlocks concepts and ideas and things that people don't generally talk about in public, or don't have the opportunity to talk about, you can't just go find another type one and start saying about, you know, hey, what do you do about pizza? You know, or how do you Pre-Bolus a meal like these conversations are hard to have, they're hard to find. And even when you go to your physician, you get a lot of out of the manual advice from them, right, which very, very infrequently actually translates to real life. So I've been saying for years and years and years, that part of the reason why the podcast works is because it creates a community of information, where you can be anonymous, so you can show up with your type one, or your insulin dependence here, everything you need to hear and never have to say to another person. I have type one diabetes, I'm struggling, or I don't understand this one piece, you get to stay private, but yet have a public experience. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. Okay. And furthermore, I think that would be a really valuable thing for people with type two diabetes as well. And so I think the first steps of that idea coming to fruition is finding people with type two diabetes who are willing to speak honestly about what it's like to have it so that other people with type two diabetes can listen to that conversation without having to come out of the shadows if they don't want to, so they can still hear the information, but not have to raise their hand and say I have type two diabetes, I think that's the first step two, a, to a good plan for people with type two. So I really appreciate you being willing to do that. And you've already in the first 10 minutes been incredibly honest. So let's keep mining into your honesty, shall we?

Hailey 12:00
Okay, and I agree about about having a space for, for type ones, of course, but also type two is to, you know, have these questions and have answers to them. Because there's still a lot of stigma about type two diabetes. And it's, it's really hard to have conversations with people without it turning into like a negative thing. Sometimes,

Scott Benner 12:21
oh, it's all stigma. I think the stigma is what's stopping people from being healthy? You know what I mean? Like, I think it's just a, it's a bridge too far. It's a wall too high. It's just I can't, I'm having problems with my health. This is very scary. I don't know what to do. Nothing I do seems to work. And on top of that, you mean, I have to walk out in the public and tell people, this is who I am knowing that they're going to look back at me and say, oh, what did you do? How did you cause this, you know, for yourself, and then try to find help through all that? I think it's too much. I really do. Especially when doctors seem to have predisposed ideas that are not necessarily accurate or helpful at times. How did you find your medical help in the beginning?

Hailey 13:08
Well, I was originally just going to like a primary care doctor who was a pediatrician, because I was still a teenager. And then they sent me over to the Children's Hospital in Chapel Hill, which is where I got diagnosed. I hung out there for the first couple of years, because I was still a minor. And then when I turned 18, I started going to the endocrinologist that my mom sees, and I really, really liked her.

Scott Benner 13:36
Okay, so you found decent care in the beginning, and they and so Metformin is first? Can you describe what it's like to take Metformin? Sorry, what was that? What's it like to take Metformin?

Hailey 13:49
You know, a lot of people say that they have stomach issues with it. I think that's the main side effect of it. I'm on the extended release version of it. So I've never really had any problems with it. My biggest problem is it's a big pill, and I hate taking pills. And I know that sounds funny, but that's, I really haven't had any problems with it. That being said, I don't know if it's really helping my blood sugars all that much. I mean, I know it doesn't directly bring your blood sugar's down. That's not how foreman works. But the insolence then more helpful than anything for me,

Scott Benner 14:24
okay. Does Metformin help with weight? I'm really not sure I haven't found that it helps with my weight at all. Okay, I know that Metformin can be used off label for weight loss, and that's why I was wondering if you saw any kind of a, like a boon from it for that. So how long were you just Metformin and what were your a one C's through that time? Well,

Hailey 14:47
I gotta be completely honest here. I did not take care of myself for a long time. I kind of blew it off. I wasn't checking my blood sugar's everyday like I was supposed to I To this day, I'm still terrified. I have a glucometer and pricking my fingers. So I stayed on Metformin by itself for I guess about three years, at which point my doctor put me on long acting insulin. And I was on that for about a year before I started taking short acting. But even then I still just wasn't really taking care of myself. I wasn't taking it seriously. And it's, it's been about a year now I've really been cracking down on it and get my agency down because not a one season as high as up into the 11th.

Unknown Speaker 15:35
Before. Okay, so

Unknown Speaker 15:36
that's not good. Oh, no,

Scott Benner 15:37
let's talk about the beginning. And then we'll get to the to where you're at now. Okay, when they put you on a short acting insulin or a long acting, so you mean like they gave you 11? year lantis, something like that, and you just shot it once a day? Yeah, it was love Amir. And you wouldn't know necessarily how much it was or wasn't helping because you weren't testing along with it. Is that right?

Hailey 16:00
That's correct. And on top of my needle phobia of picking my finger, big surprise, I also have a needle phobia of jabbing myself in the stomach with insulin,

Scott Benner 16:09
you're not big on sticking yourself with metal things. What I want you to know, Haley, before we go any farther that I believe your story to be most people's story about type two diabetes? I really do. I don't think you should be here feeling like I didn't take care of myself. And I let myself down all that I think this is what happens to people with type two, for the most part, like I really do. Now. You know, there's, have you ever heard about using intermittent fasting to help with type two diabetes?

Hailey 16:41
I have. And I actually kind of do that. Now. I don't eat breakfast. So I typically eat between 12pm and 7pm.

Unknown Speaker 16:50
Right? I don't, I don't

Hailey 16:51
know how much it's really helped me maybe I could be a little stricter with it.

Scott Benner 16:56
Yeah, I've I've spoken to some people with type two privately who have gone to a strict intermittent fasting diet, meaning they really stick to those times. And they've eliminated some obvious foods, like some breads, and you know, that kind of stuff. And it's had a significant impact on how much medication they've had to take. And where their blood sugars and a onesies are falling. I'm hoping there's this one person I'm thinking of, I'm hoping I can talk him into being on the show one day, but he's incredibly private about it. But I'm hoping to get him one day to talk about it. But, I mean, those are avenues. My mother just very recently was told the hurry once he's creeping up, she's 78. She is, so they called her type two. And the first thing we did was I went to her house, and I was like, Alright, Mom, look, here's all the food I think you shouldn't buy anymore. And we removed a lot of things that came in packages, boxes, stuff that she thought was good for her that ended up having more carbs in it than you would think. Pre packaged food. And I asked her to try an intermittent diet, you know, pick some times and stick with them. And I think she's down like 23 pounds now from eating intermittently and removing some of those things. And she's 78. And, you know, her amount of movement is, you know, Chair bed shower, like, you know, she's not out running around or anything like that. So it's having a big impact for her, which I think is terrific. Yeah, that's awesome. That's really great. Can you tell me a little more about the ignoring it? Because I think it's common, and I wonder if you know why you did it. And if you can talk about a little bit.

Hailey 18:40
You know, when you're 16 it's really hard to see into the future like, oh, if I don't take care of this, I could lose a limb or I could get kidney disease or I could go blind it's really hard to see that when you're 16 and your visions fine and your legs are fine. For all you know, your kidneys are fine. And even through college. It was still hard to see that and and diabetes is weird because it's it's not like you you're sick. And you take your medicine like like strep throat. For one. You take antibiotics for strep throat and it gets better within a few days. That's not how diabetes works. You know, you you take medicine to kind of prevent all these bad things from happening. You're not really taking medicine to quote unquote, get better. So it was hard for me to take medicine long term and understand that it's it's not really working to necessarily do anything right this moment, but protecting me for the rest of my life. So I guess I just had difficulty wrapping my head around that and it's like, well, I feel fine. And even when my blood sugar is rough in the three hundreds even I didn't feel it. I felt fine. So it's not like, I was like, Oh, I feel terrible. I need to start really working to bring my blood sugar's down, I just kind of carried on with my life like nothing was wrong.

Scott Benner 20:09
I often think about this. And the best I've ever come up with, is that none of us launch into real consciousness like adulthood, believing that a health issue is going to exist in our lives. And I think if you step back and look at the world, you might start to realize that people who skate through completely untouched by health issues are not necessarily the norm. You know, I think it's, it's far more common, like think about, you know, everything that could be, you know what I mean? Like, my daughter has type one, she's got a thyroid thing, my wife has a thyroid thing. You know, my body doesn't seem to hold on to iron for some reason. I've always carried weight around my midsection, no matter what I've done about it my entire life. You know, some people are going to get cancer, some people are going to get into an accident and have a physical injury, you're going to play basketball and break a patellar tendon like, most people are going to experience medical difficulties, the difference between one that can resolve and one that will be ongoing, is that's the part that hurts In my opinion, like, that's the one that gets you is like, Oh, this is going to be forever, I'm just maintaining this, it gives you a feeling that you're on a steady decline. You know, you're heading down a hill on a runaway train, and someone gives you a handle and says, If you pull on this, it'll slow the train down, it's not gonna stop it. But you'll get to stay on the train longer before you crash at the end. Like that's what it feels like to be told you have an autoimmune disease, like, in my opinion, like it just, it feels like you're on a path to something that not going to end well. And I don't think that needs to be the case. Or that it's even true for a lot of people. But when it feels like it's true, it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy at that point, then you just think, well, something bad's gonna happen, it might as well happen. Instead of thinking, I should put every effort I can into learning about this, and doing the best I can with it so that my life's not this slog downhill, but it's a great life that just happens to include, you know, x, y, z, something in it. Are you at that point now?

Hailey 22:31
Pretty much. For the longest time, I just, I guess I just kind of thought, well, I've got this disease, like, if, if it's gonna kill me early, it's gonna kill me early. But I don't want to be wrote down to medications and insulin and checking my blood sugar and having to monitor this thing for the rest of my life. But I've come to realize more that if I do these things, and they're really not that big of a deal, but if I do these things, I can live a lot longer. And I can live a lot healthier.

Scott Benner 23:12
If you listen to this show, you know why you would want a Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. If you had type one diabetes, it's because you can see your blood sugar in real time, the number, the speed, and the direction. You can see graphs for three 612 24 hours so you can get a real idea of what's been happening. You can look back and say, here, I used insulin. And then this happened. Here, I had something to eat. It was you know, this, and then this happened, right? There's a lot of this is and this is you understand, I'm saying you can see what food and insulin is doing to your blood sugar. That's just as important for type twos. It just really is. As a matter of fact, it's kind of hard to figure out what foods doing to your blood sugar by just using a finger stick. So maybe you're a type two, and you're not as worried about getting super low. But I mean, maybe you are maybe you're on some medications and you're using insulin, I don't know your situation. All I can tell you for sure, is that the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor is the best thing you could be doing for yourself. If you have diabetes. And if you're using insulin, especially dexcom.com forward slash juice box Get started today with the Dexcom g six know the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar. At the swipe of your hand. I'm picking up my iPhone swiping up touching my Dexcom follow up and finding out that my daughter is blood sugar is drumroll please. 81 is also stable. It's not rising or falling at any specific rate. It's stable at 81 I could have done that on my Android phone as well. You know, check it out, please. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox don't have phone doesn't matter x comm has a receiver go find out more While you're on the internet, why don't you take a look at the Omni pod? It is a tubeless insulin pump. So again, if you're a person who needs to deliver insulin, this is for you. Actually, you might be eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash right now. Head over to Omni pod comm forward slash juice box to find out. But if you're one of those people is like yeah, Scott, I will pretty soon but I'm waiting for that next big thing that Omni pods coming. I understand. But there's no need. Because the next best thing can be yours with the Omni pod promise. What does that mean? Well, the Omni pod promises that you can upgrade to Omni pods latest technologies for no additional cost as soon as they're available to you and covered by your insurance terms and conditions of buy. But you can find out all the details at Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box trust me the Omni pod is wicked cool. My daughter's been wearing it since she was four years old. And she just turned 17 if you're looking for an insulin pump, but you don't want that tubing, you don't want to have to take it off the bay there. Get your tubing caught on doorknobs and stuff like that. If you're looking to get away from insulin, like injections pens are looking to get away from your janky insulin pump that you have now. On the VODs a great choice on the pod.com forward slash juice box. One more quick thing about Omni pod if you're from Australia. Yo guys, it happened on the pods available in Australia right now. Did you know Did you? Did you? Did you know? Did you know? I don't know why I'm doing this. Let me give you the link on the pod.com forward slash juicebox. A you? So if you're from Australia find out more@omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. Au. Okay, let's get back to Haley.

Oh my god, this is taking forever. Am I right? Tell like that was never gonna end? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I'm obviously I do. I don't know. I don't know how the mind makes that first jump, like, okay, like in your situation, I have type two diabetes, we're just gonna live fast and die. You don't mean like, I'm just gonna burn out quick like I there's nothing I can do about this. Whereas what you've learned is the things that you can do about it. I mean, are, in my opinion, way better than not doing anything and having poor health outcomes that that occurred, you know, more and more frequently and sooner in life than you would expect? I don't like I don't get that idea of. I just don't understand. Do you know what I mean? Like, it just it doesn't? I don't not understand that it happens to people. But I, I don't know why I can't begin to explain to you why somebody built into me. Don't quit, don't stop. You know what I mean? And and that's what you need, like you need a don't quit attitude. Because there is a like, there's a sunny day beyond this. Like somebody can tell you you have type two diabetes. And it's not going to be fun. And it won't be easy. But there is an end to the struggle part where you get into the maintenance part, I think.

Hailey 28:27
Right? And and I've definitely been very particular about keeping my blood sugar's within a certain range and making sure I take my medicine in every day. And I do feel a lot better now.

Scott Benner 28:39
Yeah. Do you that's, that's amazing. So you did find that there? Obviously, there was a difference between a 300 blood sugar and not but you actually can now that you have stability at lower numbers, if you get higher you can you can tell now. Oh, I absolutely feel awful. If I get above about 200. Now, then interesting how your body can try to adapt to something that foreign to itself like a 300 blood sugar like it does its best for you not to notice that that's a problem, even though it is and it will continue to be and get worse it tries so hard to to adapt, you know, it's really it's really something else. How do you manage then so like? Do you can you listen to the podcast and you you're on the forum and stuff like that. So do you consider your day to day management much different than people with type twos? Then type ones Excuse me?

Hailey 29:35
Oh, yes and no. I mean, I fully understand that type two diabetes is a completely different beast than type one diabetes. There's no denying that. That being said, since I'm on insulin now, it's kind of interesting to pick up tips from people who use insulin. You know, for literally everything like type ones do and I I've come to realize that I manage my blood sugars with insulin therapy. Similarly to type ones. I, you know, I don't take a specific amount of insulin I, when I first got put on short term insulin, I was put on a set number no matter what I ate, it was 10 units that slowly crept up to 20 units. But it didn't matter if I ate kale and spinach, or if I ate an entire pizza, I can't eat an entire pizza. That's theoretical. But, you know, it was 20 units no matter what. And since then, I've kind of talked to my doctor about like, getting onto more of a sliding scale. So it's been interesting, I guess, to read the forum and listen to the podcast and see how type ones will take their insulin to carb ratio, which I'm still struggling with that a little bit. I haven't quite figured out maybe, if I should have one? And if so what it should be. I'm sorry, I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here. Just thinking about how I'm super

Scott Benner 31:07
interested. Don't, don't you apologize, you're doing exactly what I was hoping you would do. Don't worry about it. I understand that when you when you are trying to think through something and say at the same time, it can feel like you're fumbling but you weren't. So are you telling me that you get up in the morning and you go to eat something, you don't give yourself insulin, wait a little bit and eat? That's not how it works? Well, that's what I do now. Okay. But when you started, they were just giving you a blanket amount of insulin. So they were basically, Am I understanding when you started, you just always had a higher number, and they were giving you some fast acting insulin, just trying to drag that number down.

Hailey 31:47
Right, and I guess the assumption was that, you know, my pancreas is still producing insulin. So it's just that my body's a lot more insulin resistant than it should be, you know, which is pretty much true for all type two diabetics. So I was just kind of trying to assist my body with producing insulin, so giving it a little bit of artificial insulin to kind of help it bring the blood sugars down. Gotcha. Bring on some reinforcements. Yeah. Okay. Right, basically, I guess, to an extent, that's still what I'm doing. Because I mean, obviously, I'm still making a little bit of insulin are also wouldn't be type two, I guess.

Scott Benner 32:26
Right? And so you're just trying to be more targeted with where you're using the insulin now? Basically, do you have a glucose power?

Hailey 32:36
I mean, I do and I have the flash glucose monitor that I wear. And really, that's been the biggest lifesaver.

Scott Benner 32:43
No, I would imagine like I wore a Dexcom a couple of weeks ago. Did you happen to see that? I put my numbers online live at the same time, like you could see my eye. Yeah. Was that in helpful for you at all?

Hailey 32:57
Oh, yeah. It's super interesting. And it's, it kind of fascinates me as someone who doesn't use insulin super well. To see someone with like, normal blood sugars, where it

Scott Benner 33:10
so what is the protocol? Like from a doctor when you have type two? What do they say to you? Like, what is it you're supposed to, quote unquote, supposed to be doing? Like, what are the masses being told to do about their type two diabetes?

Hailey 33:24
So when I was first diagnosed, you know, the first thing is we're gonna put you on Metformin. Okay, we'll be on Metformin, and then it was you need to fix your diet. Okay, how do I fix my diet? Well, they send you to a nutritionist or a dietitian. And they they pretty much told me to eat a lot of like switching, I guess switching like white bread to like whole grains, things like that. cut back on the fruit because it's super high in sugar. And Excuse me. They also encouraged me to switch for instance, like switch soda to diet soda, and drink like sugar free drink sugar free candy and stuff like that. I have since discovered that that doesn't really work. For me, I get pretty bad headaches from sucralose and I'm just not a big fan of aspartame. So instead, I've just on my own decided to cut out sodas completely. And I live in the south. Sweet Tea is our you know, this other drink

Unknown Speaker 34:29
is sweet tea and

Hailey 34:30
I used to drink sweet tea so often, and I've said switch to unsweet tea. And at first that was really hard and now I actually like it more than sweet tea but I just tried to cut out a lot of excess sugar like that. So I pretty much completely drink sweet unsweet tea and water now. And as far as my diet, they they didn't really tell me to go low carb just to cut down on the carbs. And that's something I've definitely struggled with but I feel like for a type two diabetic, eating really low carb is pretty much the way to go.

Scott Benner 35:07
Have you ever tried something drastic? And by drastic, I mean just like picking a way of eating and trying it for a month to see what happens like just meat? Or like, have you tried carnivore or just to try it or keto or something like that I don't even know all of them. I'm just saying, Have you gone down that rabbit hole?

Hailey 35:25
Not really when I was in college, I learned how to cook for myself. And we cook a lot of low carb meals, I don't know if they were necessarily keto, but I tried to keep the carbs down low. But again, like on the weekends, I would order a pizza or go out with friends or whatever. So I can't say I really faithfully stuck to that low carb diet. But even eating low carb during the week, helped me lose quite a bit of weight.

Scott Benner 35:51
Now, I would imagine, I think a lower carb diet on a fasting schedule would be would be pretty great for you. But you'd have to, you'd have to really be looking at your blood sugars to know like that's the that's the real thing. Like I was talking to someone recently and I said, you know, if you're wearing this Dexcom they have type two diabetes is that if you're wearing this Dexcom, what you would see is how hard these different foods are hitting you and how long they're keeping your blood sugar up and how sometimes you can mix them or take them apart of each other and not get the same impact. One of the like, most fascinating things that I did while I was wearing a CGM, and of course, I don't have diabetes was like I eat a big bowl of cereal. Like I took two servings I actually picked two different cereals, right like I went for I reached back into my childhood memory and I got corn pops and honey smacks. And I was like I got them home. And I was like, which one should I have. And I was like, ah, screw that. I'll have them both. So I took a serving a one and a serving the other I combined them in the same bowl, and I ate them all. And I looked at the CGM. And I thought, you know, my, of course, I'm colored with Type One Diabetes and, and you know, all my experiences with my daughter and other people. And I was like, God, I wonder what this will do to my blood sugar. But you know, it didn't make it go up over like 160. And it did not stay up there very long. It came right back down again. And I was like, Huh, well, that was fascinating. So then I had pizza, two slices of pizza, I was great. When I added the third slice of pizza, it pushed my blood sugar up and held up for a couple of hours. simple sugars, my body could dispense with no trouble if they were by themselves. So I could take like a handful of like gummy candy or something like that. That is like dipped in sugar. And I wouldn't even see my blood sugar move. It was so it was interesting to see where my body struggled more and where it was just like oh, we have insulin. This is no problem. Like you want to eat a gummy bear. Boom, I got it. You know what I mean? You wanna have a slice of pizza, I can take care of that. You want to have three slices of pizza, you're in trouble. Now. I gotta tell you, I gained. I wore a CGM for 10 days and gained nine pounds trying to show people what it would be like, it was just like I was eating foods like I would never eat like three slices of pizza like sort of not me. I do like like sugary candy. So I do like if you put it in a candy bowl, and I walk past it, I'm going to grab one, like that's going to happen. So I try not to put candy and candy walls. So I eat way more food than I normally do. Like I hadn't had a bowl of cereal and like I genuinely don't know how long. But I took the CGM off understanding what hit me and what didn't went back to the way I was eating normally lost the weight in another 10 days. As quickly as it went on, it came right off again. It was it was really interesting. I can't tell you that I felt worse during the 10 days of eating. But I think that if I would have continued it, it would have started to drag me down like I didn't do it long enough for to really impacted me too badly. The whole thing was really, it was it was eye opening. And I found myself thinking anyone with type two diabetes would benefit from seeing this data, you know? Well,

Hailey 39:08
it's funny that you mentioned pizza because that is the one food that I just cannot figure out it. It doesn't matter how much insulin I take to start with. It will spike me and it will spite me for like the rest of the day. And it doesn't matter if I take more insulin, it just won't come down. I've never had that much of a problem with any other food but but pizza seems to be it for me.

Scott Benner 39:33
So the combination, it's the combination of the bread and the cheese. So have you ever listened to the fat and protein pro tip episode? I haven't made it to that one. Yeah, that one's going to help you with the idea of pizza. The cheese slows down your digestion it holds the bread and the carbs in your stomach longer. So the carbs and the glucose are just leeching out for hours upon hours because your body's not dispensing with it. The cheese slows down the digestion it holds the carbs in your system longer is a really basic way of thinking about it. So there is so interesting, yeah, there likely might be an amount of insulin that would topple it, but it's probably enough that it scares you to use it, I would imagine. Do you have that problem? Probably. So do you. Have you ever had lows from using insulin?

Hailey 40:21
I have, um, I sometimes overcorrect. And like I said, I've been very particular about how high I'll let my blood sugar's get. So sometimes it'll start going up, and it'll freak me out. And I'll take some insulin to correct it, and it'll bring it down a little bit too much. So yeah, definitely have a problem with that. It's not as often. It is the highs, I guess. Yeah. But it happens every now and again. Are you still using levemir? No, I'm actually switched to Lantus

Scott Benner 40:54
insurance switched me to try to get them put Yantra CBOE? I see people I've heard a little bit about Tracy, but it's still a mystery to me. I wish I think, I don't know if that's a novo drug. Or I can't remember. I think it's got I don't remember, I think it might be novo drug. But that with people with type one who are doing MDI, I see people have a lot more success with receba than what you would consider to be the older slowing acting and slower acting insulins, which would be lantis 11. Here. So lantis and lever mirror are, I think, a little older technology to Seba, and there's probably another one from another company that I'm not thinking of right now that have more of an overlap, I think 11 million lantis can die out before 24 hours is up. And so do you ever see that? Do you see any extra resistance like 18 hours after you inject that slow acting insulin?

Hailey 41:53
I'll be completely honest, I can't particularly tell that the long acting is helping at all. So what shot there have been days that I've skipped it, and it doesn't seem to have any effect on my blood sugar.

Scott Benner 42:05
So okay, so let's give context to that. Where does your blood sugar most days? Um,

Hailey 42:12
it depends on the time of day, at night, it usually sits around, it sits around like 100 till about 3am. And it dips down and then that dawn effect starts happening to me. And it gets up to about 150 when I first wake up in the mornings, but I like to keep it around 120 ish during the day.

Scott Benner 42:31
Okay, so you can see 150 in the in the morning, then I assume you shoot the Lantus or levemir at around that time of day.

Hailey 42:40
You know, actually take it at night because that's when I take the rest of my like, once a day medicines. Oh.

Scott Benner 42:46
So you really are having like a feet on the floor like surge in the morning that your body can't quell? Does that make sense? Yeah, like I don't know how much of the podcast you've dug into. But the idea of just life like you wake up and your body ramps up for things and starts producing cortisol and adrenaline and things like that your and that tries to make your blood sugar go up in a in a body that's functioning the way it should it would just stop it or wouldn't let it be up. But in a body that's not resisting. Well, that blood sugar can go up and stay up for a while. And then right. So the Lantus or the 11 year I'm sorry, would you say you're on No. Love? Um, Lantus. Lantus isn't helping that in the morning? Does that happen for certain every day?

Hailey 43:31
Pretty much. Yeah, I would say like nine times out of 10, I wake up and my blood sugar's high. And it's funny by about lunchtime, it's gone back down to about 130.

Scott Benner 43:40
You wake up, and it's Hi, what time of day it is. But you don't have a continuous glucose monitor, you only have a flash monitor. So you're not using Dexcom you're using like a freestyle, right?

Hailey 43:51
Yeah, I'm still on the freestyle 14 day. I know the freestyle two's got alarms on it, but they haven't come out with a phone app for it yet. And I love my phone app. And I'm afraid I would lose the reader.

Scott Benner 44:04
So what I'm interested in still using the old way, listen, you do what works. But what I'm interested in is I want to know what time of the morning does your blood sugar begin to go up? Because in my way, I am three every day, no matter what.

Hailey 44:18
No matter what, it doesn't matter what I ate the night before, it doesn't matter what I ate the day before 3am.

Scott Benner 44:25
So where does it try to go to about 150? That's usually about what it goes to. Can you imagine amount of short acting fast acting insulin that would combat that? And have you ever considered waking up at three o'clock in the morning and shooting some to see what would happen? You know, I've never really thought about doing that. I wonder if that would help. Haley if I was Dr. Frankenstein, and you were the monster and I could Try it. I certainly would. By the way, does everyone know that Frankenstein's the doctor and not the monster? The monster is just called the monster, by the way, but I think anyway, that's not the point. The point is, Haley. You're like I'm 24 Oh, really? Hold on a second. Let's go ahead Tell me.

Hailey 45:18
I like I hate when people say Frankenstein in the referring to the monster. It's like,

Scott Benner 45:24
no, it's Frankenstein's monster doctor. Right, right, right. It's Dr. Frankenstein. Frankenstein's monster, the monster actually is just called the monster. Am I wrong? Hold on a second. Is it called just a monster or Frankenstein's monster? I'm looking on the internet. The monster has no name and the novel, it has been said that this omission is a reflection of Victor Frankenstein is complete rejection of his creation. The monster calls himself the Adam of your labors and is referred to as the creature, the fiend, the demon and the wretch. Alright, listen, first of all, I'm not calling you any of those things, just so we can be clear. I was just Anyway, what I was saying is if if, if you put me in charge of the science experiment, that is your life, I would set an alarm for 3am. inject some fast acting insulin and see what where I wake up. And I because I'm trying to think of you as the way I thought about my daughter prior to glucose sensing technology and the things I would have done to try to keep her blood sugar down. Because if you could, I'm interested to know if you could launch into your day at a blood sugar of 80 or 90. Would you have to live with a 120 all day? Or would you sit at a different spot? Like are you just 120 all day because of the 150 bump that happens at 3am? And to me, it's worth trying to figure out?

Hailey 46:53
Which one? Maybe I should look into that because I've never really thought about, like what I could possibly do. I asked my endocrinologist if there's anything I can do to combat the domino effect. And she's like, not really, you could eat like a piece of cheese at night. And that'll keep your blood sugar from going down too low. But like, I'm not super worried about that, because the lowest it ever gets is like, you know, 80 or 90 at night. So that's not really my concern so much. And she said, Well, there's not really anything you can do for the dawn effect.

Scott Benner 47:22
So maybe I should give that a shot. I'm thinking if you try it like manually, and you notice it works. Where would you be on the idea of wearing an insulin pump? Because if you had an insulin pump on, you could jack up your basil at like 2am to stop it and you wouldn't have to wake up anymore. thoughts on that. Haley, are you? I thought I lost you. I think that's it. You broke up a little bit start over again.

Hailey 47:53
No, no. I'm sorry. My mom called on my phone. And I think that made my phone freak out a little bit like what's going on? I don't know

Unknown Speaker 48:01
how to handle this.

Scott Benner 48:02
Please explain to her you're on an incredibly popular diabetes podcast right now. And we cannot have phone calls. That's why I'm like mom, I'm busy. She even would know what a podcast is. She's probably like a what not, that's not so. So would you be amenable to wearing an insulin pump if that was your best option.

Hailey 48:22
I would love to wear an insulin pump. I actually inquired about that with my endocrinologist. And she wanted to put me on the tandem pump. Okay, she thought that would be the best option for me. And I looked into different pumps and turns out my insurance won't pay for one so NBI for now you

Scott Benner 48:42
student still are you? Are you in the working world? What are you doing?

Hailey 48:46
No, I'm a full blown adult. Now I do have a full time job. I graduated in 28.

Scott Benner 48:52
Okay, resolutions. Okay. Yeah, no, of course, listen, having a job in this world right now is a big accomplishment. I look at my son in college. And I was like, how's he gonna get a job? Like when this all like, how do you even apply for a job during Corona? What do you do? You don't I mean?

Hailey 49:09
Well, it's kind of hilarious, actually. Because, well, I had a pretty hard time finding a job. When I first graduated, it took me about a year and a half. And I started this job that I'm working right now back in March of 2020. Which was kind of like the breaking point in America. So I went to my office for a week. And then at the end of that week, they're like, okay, we're sending everybody for a couple of to let the pandemic kind of die out. So you can talk in a couple of weeks, and I said, Okay, so I brought my laptop home, and I've been home ever since.

Scott Benner 49:40
So basically, we're working from home. That's amazing. I know a person who went in for their first day, and then the pandemic, like literally for that company started the next day. He's only ever been in the building one time, one time for one day. Okay, so you can't get Pump yet because of insurance. But if you could, so if you could, my idea would be to ramp up the Basal insulin at a time that would cut off the dawn phenomenon, and then have it come back, I'm telling you right now, if you could find patterns in your blood sugar, then having a pump and the ability to manipulate the Basal insulin, like put it where you need it kind of thing, instead of just laying a blanket over the day, I would think that it would be fairly easy to impact the blood sugars that way. But in the meantime, you could do it with short acting insulin as an experiment. Because if you could just keep a couple of blips down a day, that could probably change your a one C, significantly. Let me What is your agency right now? Would you tell me?

Unknown Speaker 50:50
It's 6.6? All right, cool. So let me look. It's like three weeks old. I think I got it done three weeks ago. Alright, so I'm on

Scott Benner 50:56
my website. Now there's a really cool calculator on my website that does a one C and stuff, it works in many moles, or, you know, all the different ways. So you said 6.6 point six. So you're a one C is 6.6. Your average blood sugar is 143. So if we made your average blood sugar 100 it would take your a one C to 5.1. And I would love to see those numbers. Yeah. So I think the, to me, the experiment is to knock down any long running high blood sugar's because if you think about it from 3am, until whenever, if you're 150. That's five, six hours at six hours just getting to 9am. And then if you get a bump from breakfast that doesn't come back down till noon ish. Is this about what happens to you? Well, I don't eat breakfast. Yeah, I hate breakfast myself. By the way.

Hailey 51:58
I'll feel like that. I'm sorry if this makes people stop listening. But I'm just not a big breakfast person. I know I'm in the minority with that. But can you imagine?

Scott Benner 52:08
Can you imagine someone right now being unbelievable and just pushing the button and shutting it off? No Eggs Benedict ever, boom, I'm out of here. I would think if they were going to leave this episode, it would have been back when I asked you how you ate five seconds into it when you are type two diabetes, by the way. But, but I think anybody who's still listening now is in for the long haul. So I'm glad they're here. I think that I think that your best first option. I mean, if you could just quell that, that that first thing in the morning, if you took 50 points out of that, I think that's changes your a one c significantly. And then you could start to figure out how to put in fast acting insulin for the meals. And obviously while still continuing to look at diet and exercise and see if you can impact things in a different way. Do you think you could? Do you think your situation is escapable? Meaning Is there a world where you could eat so specifically an exercise in such a way that you would change your body and not need insulin anymore? Does the doctor given you any indication around that?

Hailey 53:16
Um, I you know, I haven't talked about it with my doctor in a while, but I know it's possible. I know a lot of type twos can eat well, like super well and exercise well and really get those blood sugar numbers down. And, and they get off insulin. Some of them you can get off Metformin. But that being said, it's that I feel like sometimes I use the insulin as a crutch. And I use it as an excuse to eat things that maybe I shouldn't eat. Okay. And yeah, I don't know if that's the mentality I should have or not. But sometimes it's just nice to be able to enjoy a few carbs and not have to think about it because I'm able to take the insulin. And I know that if I if I really ate super well, I probably wouldn't have to worry about that so much. But at the same time, it's like, do I want to eat really low carb every day for the rest of my life? Like every single meal?

Scott Benner 54:14
Well, would it be? Well, I would ask you Well, first of all, you brought up a meat I have two thoughts here. My first one is that people with type one diabetes I find sometimes can get so good at using their insulin that they forget that the way they're eating is not healthy. They're just so amazed that they can stop it with insulin like oh my god, can you believe it? Like I had a giant cupcake and I washed it down with a milkshake and then I had pizza and look at how flat my line is. I'm so good at using insulin, which is amazing. But you also should be saying to yourself also I should not be eating these things. You know like and especially all together like this like you know a cupcake once in a while a milkshake here and there pizza on Friday. That's all fine. You shouldn't be eating pizza milkshake in a cupcake in one afternoon, right? So you get my point is like big Get so lost and look how good I am at using insulin they forget to think about the just normal everyday nutrition of what they're eating. And and you're almost saying the again, like the mirror side of that, which is, if I can control my eating with insulin and keep my blood sugar down, then that's how the insulin feels like a crutch to you. So you can write off unhealthy, less healthy eating, because you can keep your blood sugar down. Is that how it feels? Am I understanding that? That's exactly how it feels, basically. Alright, but and you know that that's not the way to think about it. But you're saying I would like carbs once in a while, which I don't think I know that. Yeah, I mean,

I'm not I'm not a dummy. I didn't think you were. But but so you're, you're looking for a balance of a regular what you consider to be a pretty regular life? And and how do you so I think that's the, the focus, right is like, how do you have a regular life where you're not just like, you know, some Instagram model who hasn't had four carbs a day in 25 years, you're not looking for that life, right? You, you don't want to be dead. When you're 30, you're not looking for that life, you're looking for something in the middle you're looking for, I have a slice of pizza once in a while, or, you know, I can have you know, these other things, and I'm maintaining a stable situation. That's your goal, right?

Hailey 56:31
Right. And, you know, I know I'll never be one of those super skinny Instagram models or whatever. But I would like to lose some weight, I'm still a little bit heavier than I would like to be. So that's kind of a goal. And I'm pretty confident that along with that is gonna come a little less insulin resistance, which may mean less insulin or no insulin.

Scott Benner 56:53
Okay, so if you so am I hearing from you that your overall goal plan is eat a little better, get a little more exercise, try to use less insulin and get the same results and at the same time, try to understand how to use the insulin. So it benefits you the best. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Is that doable?

Hailey 57:17
I think it's doable. And on the exercise front, I kind of struggle with exercise because I hate it. But no, I try to go to the gym at least two or three times a week, and then I'm a pretty big skier. So I in the winter, I'm able to ski, usually, like at least every other weekend, and I know that's not particularly regular exercise, but intense exercises. I have actually found that when I'm my blood sugar stays pretty level, which is awesome. But I could definitely do better on that front.

Scott Benner 57:53
Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm I'm no guru, but I would think getting out going for a walk or, you know, doing some like resistance stuff, even stuff you can get away with in the home. You know, that kind of just bodyweight exercise like I've, I've heard people say that, like bodyweight squats are incredibly difficult, because you're not even holding any weight. You're just doing it like as higher reps with your own weight. I mean, I don't know, I'm not here to explain it to you, obviously. I'm just here to say that, like, thank you for sharing this, this kind of overview of what your life's like with type two. I think it's incredibly honest of you. And I believe that you were really thorough. Giving us looks into kind of the different pitfalls and some of the some of the things that have gone right for you. Is there anything we didn't talk about that you want to talk about?

Hailey 58:45
Um, I guess not. I think that pretty much covers it. I mean, it i i'm glad we got to talk about kind of be young and be a type two diabetic because you know, like we mentioned at the beginning of this, I tell people I'm diabetic. Oh, what kind? Oh, I'm type two. Oh, no, you're not you're type one. You're only 24 I'm like no, no, I know the majority of people diagnosed younger type one the majority of people diagnosed older type two but I'm a weirdo. What can I say?

Scott Benner 59:21
No, it's good to get it out there that people understand it. I feel the same way about this conversation as I one time interviewed a lady I think who was diagnosed with type one on like when she was 60. And nobody wanted to believe that either. You know like it's everybody gets kind of locked down and well this is how it usually goes. So this is must how must be how it has to be and it's certainly not the case. But I mean seriously Haley like your your you I don't think you fully appreciate what you did here today. You did a really good thing. And it's a real kindness for people listening. Because there are going to be plenty of people who listen this podcast initially who have type one diabetes are just going to be interested in your story, but they're going to know people with type two And they're going to be able to share this episode with them. Because I think far too many people are living with type two diabetes and don't know the first thing about it. That's one of the problems. I think the second problem is there's tools available to them that they don't even know exists, so they don't look into them. And then I think the third thing is just the honesty of what you just said, like, I could move around more I could, you know, I could I could get more exercise. And I know that would help me. And I think that's hard for people to admit out loud. So it's extra encouraging to hear somebody admit it like this very publicly. So I appreciate it.

Hailey 1:00:39
Yeah, and I definitely agree about about people just not knowing I think a lot of people get diagnosed, and they're not really given a whole lot of information, and they're stuck to figure it out themselves. Like, I'm in a few type two groups on Facebook, and all the time all the time. There's posts of people that's like, well, I just got diagnosed. So what can I eat? What pants I eat?

Scott Benner 1:01:01
Yeah, it's that that's how I mean, no, it feels

Hailey 1:01:04
it's gonna be it's gonna be a learning process for the rest of our lives. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:09
No, I know, unless you're willing to just do something. So one sided, to see how it goes. Didn't mean like, like, if you were if you were literally willing to not eat a carb for two weeks to see what happens. And to see if your body would adjust to not having sugar, because there are people who eat like that. There's, I mean, there's type ones that listen to this show that I know eat very little, in the way of carbohydrates. And I think it probably started out for them as about their diabetes, but then just kind of became a lifestyle for them. You know, and it's, it's not something that burdens them anymore. I mean, I can tell you that the less sugar I eat, the less I think about sugar. That's for certain, but it's not that, you know, it's not that easy for everybody. And it's it's not always conducive to how some people live like, you know, there's also people are like, this is exactly what I do. It's super easy. Like, your whole job seems to be this, you know what I mean? Like, like, you know, like, Haley's got to go to work, she gotta get up in the morning. And I'm assuming that kind of sucks, but you probably just get up and sit right back down again for your job, right?

Hailey 1:02:12
Oh, yeah, working from home, it's been a little bit of a nice privilege to just wake up at like 730 and clock in at eight o'clock in my pajamas. And I'm good to go for the day.

Scott Benner 1:02:21
But it doesn't exactly get you moving, either.

Hailey 1:02:25
Right. And I would love to have a job where I'm able to move around and walk around and stuff like that a little bit more. But I'm in the legal field. I'm a paralegal. We just sit on the computer pretty much all day. And I love my job. I have a great job. But it would almost be nice to have a job where I could get up and walk around some to write

Scott Benner 1:02:45
No, I agree. I do. I think people are missing that. commuting was exercise. To some degree. Like you get up you hustle in the morning, you run around the house, you run to your car, you drive a little bit you you know, run from a garage, it's not a lot. But it's it's move it's movement. And it's more movement that people are getting at this point who are working from home right. Now I hear you. I really do. This is I'm interesting. I appreciate you doing this. Thank you very much. I I didn't I didn't expect this to go. I didn't have any expectation for how this would go. But I can tell you that I very much one other type twos to contact me and I want to keep having these conversations. I think there's something to be unearthed in here, that could be valuable for people that's beyond what usually happens, which is Hey, fix your diet move around a little bit. That's because that's really what they're saying to you. They can say they send you to a nutritionist, you can say whatever you want, but you're being told, eat differently and get exercise. And while that might be amazing advice. That's it's just not as easy. It's just easier said than done. You know what I mean? For for a lot of people like Joe Absolutely, yes. You don't. I mean, yeah, it just doesn't. Just

Hailey 1:03:57
people who just lead busy lives, like, especially people that are like have kids or have a family. It's like, where do you find time to count arms and to eat healthy every single meal of every single day? Like, I feel like I'm busy and I don't have kids. I don't have a you know, I don't have a family of any kind like that. And I feel like I'm busy. So it always amazes me how people can juggle all those things. And sometimes just adding diabetes to it. It's like, Oh, great, let's

Unknown Speaker 1:04:25
one more thing.

Scott Benner 1:04:26
You don't give enough weight sometimes to cultural and geographical implications as well, which is just like you said, like sweet teas everywhere. Or this is just how I was raised. This is what we drink. This is what we this is what we do. I'm ingrained in it now. It's not just ingrained physically with the carbs in your body and like sugar holding on to your brain. It is that when you think to make something, these are the things you think to make because that's what you've seen happen for decades of your life when you were a child as you got older, like this is food and there are other people eating different foods that are Probably healthier than what I'm eating. I don't even know about them. You know, like, you know what I learned during the pandemic? Of all weird things, a couple of things, what's that I decided to teach myself how to smoke barbecue, like how to, I got a smoker, and I taught myself how to smoke barbecue. I learned that that's much better than any of the other ways that I had been cooking meat my entire life, right. And then I got bored. And I was like, I'm gonna figure out how to make a great pizza at home. And I first learned about the dough and the cooking process and all this stuff. And what I ended up learning through that is, if you hand make dough for pizza, and let it cold ferment for a number of days, it's easier to digest and less impactful on Arden's blood sugar. I never would have figured that out without the pandemic, because I wouldn't have had the time to learn to do it and to try and you know, etc, go over and over again. But as much as we talked about, like, you know, there's places in the world where pizza means Pizza Hut. Pizza means Domino's, and that is pre made stuff that has more preservatives in it. And a pizza from a local pizza joint. And Philly is not going to have as many preservatives, but it still will have some but when you get home, and really you learn that pizza dough is flour, water, salt, and yeast, and it's nothing else. Your body actually does okay with that. It's easier. And so that's a cultural thing. Because somewhere somebody has been eating handmade pizza their entire life. And somewhere somebody thinks of Domino's or you know, as pizza. And I want you all to know that those of us on the East Coast do not agree that that's pizza. It is not it's you're eating fast. You're it's fast food that looks like pizza. You know, right? And so but if you grew up around it, then right now you're thinking Screw you, man, Domino's is amazing. And and, and I understand that. So, you know,

Hailey 1:06:57
it's so funny. Here in North Korea, we get a lot of transplants from the northeast, and on our local Facebook page. Every once a while someone will come on here and be like, I'm from New York. Where can I get a good pizza around here? And other people will get on there and go, Oh, there's no good pizza around here.

Scott Benner 1:07:16
There's a place. There's a place in Tampa that's owned by a New York pizzeria. And they go so far as to ship water in tanker trucks from New York to Florida so they can make better No. And I don't know. Yeah, I it's just But anyway, that's not the point. The point isn't pizza, the points cultural food differences, expectations about what good food means. It's almost like when I asked people about their blood sugar's and I'm like, so did you get high? And they go? No. Or they'll say, Yeah, I got high, how high did you get? I was high. What does that mean? I realized that when I think of high, I think of over 120 when they think of high they think of over 300. So we're not having a balanced conversation. Because when I say hi, I think 120 when they say hi they think 300 just like when you say to people do you eat healthy they go oh my god, yeah. But what is healthy to them versus what is actually healthy. And so you have to have these conversations broken down my mom again the other day, she just texted me and she goes, Hey, beets are healthy, right? My mom likes beats. And I said, I mean, I don't know, I've never eaten a beat in my life. I was like, let me look as I go online, I find out that a cup of beats has 15 carbs in it. And for a person who's trying not eat a lot of carbs. 15 carbs as a vegetable side is a lot. And so I told her how many carbs when she was I love beets. And I was like, aha, she goes, I'll eat less. And I was like, yeah, I'm I'm like, have a half a cop have them less frequently. Like, you know, like, they tried to do that. I'm not telling my mom to never eat beets again. But I gave her a list of 10 vegetables that hardly have any carbs in them. And then, you know, just to realize that my mom at one point thought of beets and those other vegetables as as commiserate. And they weren't but she thought they were because when she was little somebody told her here eat healthy have a beat. And and that was it. And then that's your expectation. I think that is a huge part of the of the load that people with type two diabetes have to haul is that they just don't know the impact of what they're eating and they could make different choices that they probably still be as happy with. They just don't even know what those choices are sometimes. Alright, I talked a lot at the end, Haley, I didn't mean to. I don't know what

Unknown Speaker 1:09:33
that's okay. No, I

Scott Benner 1:09:34
mean, it's okay for you but people listening like let Haley talk. Seriously, anything you want to say that's left because I'm gonna. I'm gonna say goodbye and I don't want to miss anything because I think you've had a lot of good advice today.

Hailey 1:09:48
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers a day in the life of Haley.

Scott Benner 1:09:53
Do people in North Carolina say you have the sugars is that colloquial though

Hailey 1:09:59
they say Well, when they wish they're checking their blood sugar. They'll say like, are like my sugars are high. And my sugars are good and something like that. I always think that's a little bit funny.

Scott Benner 1:10:10
I have the sugars is like my favorite sentence, I think it's like so good durably colloquial to where it gets used. But, Hayley, I think you're on your way to something. So you've only been at this in a better way for yourself for the last year, do you see constant improvement? Um,

Hailey 1:10:32
I don't know, it's kind of hard to say. Because in the grand scheme of things a year is kind of short term. I agree. But I do keep having better and better goals for myself. Like, a year ago, my agency was 10 point. Wow.

Scott Benner 1:10:45
Oh, hell you broke up. It was. It was 8.93 months ago, the six? Oh, no. No, no. Can you hear me? You broke up again. So do it again, for me. 10 point what, how long ago?

Hailey 1:11:00
Oh, sorry. A year ago, my agency was 10.1. Right. And six months ago, it was 8.1. And three months ago, it was 6.9. And then in December, it was 6.6. So

Scott Benner 1:11:11
Haley, then the answer to my question is yes, things are getting better. So good for you?

Hailey 1:11:16
I think so. And I want to continue to see them get better. Because, you know, I don't want to Well, I don't want to get my legs cut off. Because then I can't see anymore. I don't want to go blind because like I said, I can't see it anymore.

Scott Benner 1:11:29
Listen, those long term health effects are real. But I think that a more realistic way to think about it is day to day health. Like how you feel today? Are you being like the best you today can be. And if you are then those long term scary ideas are never going to come to fruition. You know what I mean? So I wouldn't if this happened to me, I would try hard not to live like I'm trying to avoid something terrible happening to me. 30 years from now, I would think about just doing the best I can today. And I think that takes care of 30 years from now. But you're doing amazingly well. If this podcast has had anything to do with how well you're doing. I'm genuinely happy for you. And I hope you keep listening because I think there's more in there about using insulin. And I'd love to check back in with you a year from now and see how it's going. Oh, yeah, of course. Cool. Oh, thank you. All right, well, good luck avoiding the corona and I will. And hold on one second.

First, I'm going to thank Haley, thank you so much, Allie. Very cool conversation. I appreciate you coming on. Second, I'm going to tell you, if you have the type two diabetes, you'd like to come on the show and chitchat about it. Scott would be interested in talking to you. I am Scott sent me an email. Thanks also to Dexcom makers of the G six continuous glucose monitor, find out more@dexcom.com forward slash juice box and Australia, Australia you want that on the bond Omnipod comm forward slash juice box au the rest of you want it on the pod comm forward slash juice box find out more about the Omni pod and see if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Thank you so much for listening to the Juicebox Podcast and for sharing it with someone else. What else? Anything else? Oh, I got some good reviews recently. Thank you very much for those. Those are excellent. And oh yeah, the show just had its most popular month ever. Wow. Wow. That's right. August of 2021 was the most popular, most popular most downloaded most listened to month in the history of the podcast beating the month before, which was the most popular motion shoot. I'm saying we growing, growing, growing growing because of you because you're sharing because you're listening because you're subscribing in a podcast app. Thank you very much being really serious. The summer is a time where most podcasters go. I don't put out as many episodes you know, because nobody listens in the summertime. Yeah, well guess what? best month ever. Just beat the previous best month ever. And I bet you September. Looking good to be the best month ever because of you. Thank you so much. No joking. Very, very serious. You guys make the show. Thank you again. I'll talk to you soon.