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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 857 of the Juicebox Podcast

Chris Freeman is back on the podcast today Chris has type one diabetes. He's a multi sport athlete and a four time Olympic cross country skier. While you're listening today, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin.

Hey, if you're a US resident who has type one diabetes, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, can you please take the T one D exchange survey for me? It will take you fewer than 10 minutes completely HIPAA compliant, absolutely anonymous, simple questions about diabetes, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox. These answers that you'll give help diabetes research. They significantly help you can be a part of that right from your sofa, T one D exchange.org. Forward slash juicebox.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries G voc hypo pen. Find out more at G voc glucagon.com. Forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter contour next.com forward slash juicebox best meter I've ever used or held. I'm holding up my hand to whatever you it is you swear to like you know when they put your hand on the Bible and the courtroom you're like I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, not the truth. So yeah, Contour Next One. I love a contour meter contour next.com forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes of the audio app you're using right now. And links at juicebox podcast.com to G vo Capo pen, contour, and all of the sponsors. I am

Kris Freeman 2:23
Chris Freeman at diabetes for over half my life now I'm 42 years old. But I've had a pretty good run with it. I've skied in four Olympics, cross country skiing, I've done some Ironman triathlons, I've got a awesome family. So diabetes has not kept me from doing what I want to do. It's just made it

Scott Benner 2:48
interesting. Interesting. So funny word. You are saying those words and at an interesting time, because last week, I put out an episode where I talk to a therapist about that phrase that people say diabetes doesn't stop me. And we talked about how it's kind of a, like a two pronged thing. There are some people I've witnessed, say it and what they mean is, I'm on top of it, my blood sugars are great, you know, blah, blah, blah, I'm living a healthy life. diabetes doesn't stop me. And some people say, from the perspective of like, well, things aren't going great. But, you know, I still went out, I still did this thing I do the things I do. And even though my agency is blah, blah, blah, I don't let diabetes stop me. That's interesting. You know,

Kris Freeman 3:37
I've definitely noticed that too, you know, with all my travels to various diabetes events and stuff, I hear that as well. And you get some people that, you know, it doesn't stop me I went to this event I passed out. And I ended up in the ER, but it doesn't stop me. And I'm not, you know, I'm not I'm not going to judge anyone for not being able to manage their disease because it is a difficult disease to manage. But to me, it sounds like it did stop you.

Scott Benner 4:04
Yeah, no, it's just it's and we talked all through the different perspectives and why someone why it's still a great feeling to have, like, I'm not I'm choosing the most generous side of it by thinking that people are saying, even though this thing is difficult, and I am not doing what I wouldn't want to be doing with it. I haven't given up like I I'm kind of leaning into that idea, but you're just you're just an interesting person because you're incredibly athletic. And you're, you know, a healthy eater, I think probably to say the least, you're a photo of you with a Amit wearing it on the partner Dexcom. If I google your name, and diabetes and look at photos, the picture on my website from 2014 still comes up first. Because I think it was so impactful for people to see somebody as lean as you are wearing those devices and how I think success with them. Well, I

Kris Freeman 5:01
should maybe send you an updated photo.

Scott Benner 5:04
Things gotten away, Chris.

Kris Freeman 5:06
No, no, no, I'm actually, I'm actually still really fit. But we got to get the the Omni pod five up on on. Yeah,

Scott Benner 5:14
that's a good I bought the old one, I imagine that's still there, probably the original pot on you back then. But you know, it's just, you've always you've been on the podcast twice, you're on the 26th episode of the podcast, and you'll this one will probably be in the late eight hundreds. And you're on again a couple of years later. But I've always just enjoyed talking about diabetes with you because you have a very sort of no bullshit view of it. And I've always appreciated that.

Kris Freeman 5:45
I very much do have a No BS view of it. I mean, you you either manage it to the best of your ability, and it impacts your life to a minimum, or you ignore it to your detriment. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:00
And you've never been afraid to say it. And I always I've always thought that you're, you're helping people when you do that. So I'm my first question that's been on my mind, since I knew we were going to talk is how do you how do you go from, like being in for Olympics, and that being your world and your life and what you train for and what you think about to not doing it anymore, like is the transition difficult.

Kris Freeman 6:27
Um, the transition was difficult, for sure, and I managed it by jumping pretty much right into another sport. So I was able to get some sponsors to go into triathlon. And with the goal of going to the World Championships, which I did. So I didn't train as much as I did for cross country skiing. But I had a coach, I had a training plan. And that really helped me with the transition out of full time skiing. Because it was familiar to just suddenly not do anything. I don't know how I could have handled that. But I'm also a little different in that I've had teammates from the US Ski Team that retire and they say, Oh, my God, it's so nice not to have a training plan anymore. I don't wake up and worry about training. And I don't really relate to that. If I hadn't gotten older, I would still be doing it. Yeah. I love to doing it. And I love training. I love ski racing. But you know, your body does doesn't respond to training at 42 and your maximal ability start to decline. And you can't We can't compete at the Olympic level anymore. Right. So

Scott Benner 7:42
yeah, I mean, it meant more to me, because I watched lasts. Well, last summer, we were at what ended up being my son's last collegiate baseball game. But as the game starts that day, you don't think that's the last game, right? They could have gone on it looked like they were going to. And I experienced something the game ended. And my first thought was, I didn't know that last at bat would be his last at bat. Or I would have I don't know what I thought next. But I felt like I would have enjoyed it differently or looked at it. I don't know exactly. But to me, it was just part of the game. And they were going to play again two days later. And then it hit me I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is it. And I looked around for him. And I couldn't I couldn't see him anywhere. He wasn't in the dugout, he wasn't on the field. He wasn't you know, surrounding the field. And I finally found him in the parking lot, like sitting on a curb. And just he was staring out into space. And I'm always gonna wonder what he was thinking about that, you know, after having done this thing, not not at the Olympic level, but since he was four years old, and I don't know, I just thought I thought of you about that.

Kris Freeman 8:59
I did some staring into space for sure. Yeah. I also, I also in 2018 was my last official pro ski race. And I you know, I told my coach I told my wife that yeah, I don't think I'm ever ski race again because you know, I only want to do this at the highest level I can achieve I don't want to go in and kind of half acid. But then of course it snowed in New England super early the next year and I had skiing at Thanksgiving and I went out and ski and I'm like oh this is fun.

Scott Benner 9:35
I remember this

Kris Freeman 9:37
and then I was skiing a lot and I nationals was in Vermont that year and I called up my old coach and said I think I'm gonna show up and so I showed up in 2019 and I just off of you know residual fitness I got third at Nationals. Well, maybe I will race with diminished abilities as I go on because I still really love it.

Scott Benner 10:00
You know, well, you know, to your point, my son just left a few weeks ago, he moved to Atlanta to take a job. And we're packing up his car. And I saw a baseball glove in his car. And I thought, what the hell's he gonna do with that? And now like, I don't know, like, I don't know if he'll ever touch it, or if he just brought it because he felt like, I'd never go anywhere without this thing. You know, like, but it was a it was an interesting thing. I actually we, as we were packing him up, he forgot something in the basement. And he and I went down together to get it and his, his, his bag was there, the bag he takes to his games, it has all this crap in it, you know. And he saw it, unzip. And he bent down and repacked it the way I'd seen him pack it like a million times and he sipped it up and just kind of picked it up and then sat it back down again. Like he was leaving it there, but taking care of it one more time before he left you know, and I was hard not to cry Chris but then watching him live those next months and reorder his life and and find other things that was that was interesting and and kind of heartwarming, actually. It was hard to watch him go through it but it felt good to watch him succeed and and get that I've seen you do a number of things over the last couple of years and I always have I mean, you're not my son but I always have warm feelings like that about oh, look Chris's, I don't know why he's running over this big thing and down a slide or whatever the hell he's doing. But like That looks fun. And, and it's nice to know that you're that you're still doing stuff. How do you make a living, though? Like that fascinates me. Like I imagined as a as an Olympic athlete. Their sponsorship. But how do you do it? Like what are you doing right now?

Kris Freeman 11:52
I don't make as good a living, not being an Olympic athlete. I did have some sponsors for triathlons and for adventure racing. But I'm also looking for more sponsors, for sure. I think keep it going. It it's it's really it's fun for me to do these to do these other events. Like when I was when I was competing, only in skiing. I wanted to do these bizarre races like I think I sent you a paper I wrote about the infernal pentathlon. Yep. And, you know, I look at that, and I couldn't really do it while I was training full time, because I could get hurt, I couldn't really prepare for it. But I really wanted to do it and that for your listeners, I mean, it's this insane race with a long history on Mount Washington, which is the largest peak in the on the East Coast. And it starts with a six mile fat bike, a six mile cross country ski a five mile traverse snowshoe and then you skin slash hike skinning is when you put skins on the basis of your skis and you hike up a steep hill, or four miles to the top of the head wall on Mount Washington and you ski back down to the parking lot. Wow. And when I first saw that event, you know, of course, one of my first thoughts is oh god, how am I going to manage this with blood sugar? What are what are the things? And that those thoughts motivate me because, well, I can figure this out. And it's never also like, I can figure out how to finish it. It's like, No, I can finish it, I can figure out how to dose myself for this race. And when the thing and those that's just my competitive nature, and it's it used to be about proving to myself that I was still okay, even though I had diabetes, and now I can appreciate it more. It's just the challenge.

Scott Benner 13:54
Well, how do you do something like that? Like, you know, I mean, just why don't we like go back just to cross country skiing for a second, then we'll get back to the thing that sounded insane that you just said about walking up a mountain whiskies on this game back. But just to get up in the morning and go train. Is it a similarity? You keep your meals the same? You keep your nutrition the same? Or is it adjusting to what's happening with your body day to day? I mean, how would you characterize because being able to train is the most important thing, right? Like if you show up and your blood sugars are too high, you're not going to obviously have the success that you need. And if they're too low, you can't do this thing. So and you have to train so how do you make sure that you're where you want to be?

Kris Freeman 14:37
Um, well, I'm, I've where the Dexcom GS six, so I have a very constant idea of where my blood sugars are at. And I never let them get very far out of range, using the I've only been using the deck the Omnipod. Five now for about a month. Besides that, I only had a very short dalliance with a automated system, I used some of the, you know, the off market software, but I'm not particularly adept at software and so I got off of it. But when I'm training twice a day, it's not a it's not a spontaneous thing. It's not Oh, I'm gonna train now it's there's a, there's a prep from a few hours beforehand to make sure that the sugars are right, and I'm eating the right thing that I don't have too much insulin on board that's going to drive me low. You know, I eat a snack right before I go out, I carry nutrition when I'm out there. And then for the second session, I do it all over again. So

Scott Benner 15:40
it's about eating at a time where, excuse me, prior to the training, there's no activates, you want the active insulin from the previous meal to be done before you head outside.

Kris Freeman 15:53
Either that or I want to have very little active insulin. And so you know, if, if I, you know, I can't, I can't live my life completely revolved around training anymore with a four year old and other obligations anymore. So if I want to train in the morning, I would get up and eat a very breakfast very high on protein, take a small Bolus so that there isn't Bolus driving me down when I go out 30 minutes later, and carry some carb with me while I'm going. That kind of finishes the meal as I'm out there and offsets the insulin on board.

Scott Benner 16:30
Oh, that's interesting. And when you What do you carry with you that like, while you're training? Is it like dense things? Like, like, I don't know, like nutrition bars? Or what do you do?

Kris Freeman 16:42
Well, pretty much the only time I eat simple carbs is when I'm working out, like, you know. So, you know, Google packet gels, sport beans, anything, anything that's just basically straight up sugar. Yeah. Because at that point, if the sugar is dropping, you don't want it to be a slow rise, right? I eat the complex carbs, when I'm going to be sitting around for a while or recovering from my workout. Or when I'm out there. It's it's simple, refined sugars. And generally it's you know, it's, it doesn't really matter the brand, it's some type of power bar, Clif Bar type thing.

Scott Benner 17:22
Because of your unique situation, that the way you explain it is so clear. And then when you try to apply that back into a regular person's life, where you hear like, I went to my soccer practice, or my kids soccer practice, and they always get low there, they always go Hi, this thing, or I realized that they're trying to make they want diabetes to fit into their schedule, and you're fitting diabetes into the schedule. Like I don't know if that makes sense, or not, like you're taking it into account as you're setting up your day. And I think other people can sometimes want it just to work, like, and I understand why, like, don't get me wrong, like, it's it's a lot to plan for, and you have kids running around, and where you're an adult who's leaving work and thinks like, maybe I could catch a workout here, you know, like, like, real quickly, you don't plan for it. But then even when that happens, that's when simple sugars come into play, and you kind of buoy yourself if you're getting low in those situations.

Kris Freeman 18:21
Yeah, I repeat many times people that the spontaneity is not something that is friendly with diabetes. I can be spontaneous, but it will often mean Eating More Sugar than I wanted to. or not being able to do something later in the day because of what it will impact my diabetes to do something spontaneously active. Yeah. So it's my days are very planned. And then, you know, I even plan playing with my son, you know, if we're okay, we're gonna, we have a half a mile trail down to our playground at the local elementary school, you know, I will plan for that, because I'm gonna have to chase them all through the woods and make sure he doesn't fall off the jungle gym and then carry it back up the hill. And then I'm going to want to go train again. So what I eat, when I eat and how much insulin I have on board is all very planned. And I found that you know, using the automated system, frequently during the day, I'm going back to manual, as opposed to automated because it it can't predict what I'm going to do two hours from now. And if I'm slightly high, I don't want to have it kicking in extra insulin that I'm unaware of that is going to then drive me low or poor surprise me when I'm working out.

Scott Benner 19:52
That's an interesting point is that you can't tell any automated system. I'm going for that walk with my kid two hours from now. So it's it's an thinking the moment and with its eye on keeping stability, not knowing it's coming. Have you tried the activity mode? On it? Yeah, yeah. It's not fast enough for when you make the decision to go or?

Kris Freeman 20:13
Well, I mean, my activity is pretty active.

Scott Benner 20:16
I think that's the other thing. We're not talking about Christmas. And I think you're active in a way that most of us aren't. So, I mean, like intensity. I guess it should be my

Kris Freeman 20:25
I mean, the activity mode. Yeah, that would work for going down to the playground for my son that doesn't that doesn't work for swimming 3000 meters and then going for a 12 mile run.

Scott Benner 20:35
Right? Right. That's two different things. But it is I'll tell you, it's nice to be able to.

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it's nice to be able to do that to let the the algorithm do what it's going to do and then if you get to a point where you're like I don't I think I've zigzag too quick for this thing I'll just go back to what I normally do and then go back for it you're probably sleeping much better on an algorithm

Kris Freeman 24:04
right away I mean I I would just like you I keep the numbers really tight and those the alarms just once or twice every night I'd wake I would wake up correct go back to sleep and I would say so and I've probably only been woken by an alarm four times in the last month

Scott Benner 24:26
wow that's great. That's such a big deal and people just you know it's it's that slow loss that you have when you when diabetes comes into your world and then at first you're like oh it's okay I you know I'm losing like an hour sleep I'll be alright or and you think you are but man six months a year into it. You don't realize how you've declined from not sleeping regularly. It's just it's difficult and it's not good for your health on top of everything else. So yeah, I would say number one thing you get out of an algorithm any of them honestly sleeping overnight, such a great such Great part of it, and the good.

Kris Freeman 25:03
I was just gonna say, Yeah, I've been very, that my hope was that it would really aid with my sleeping when I switched to it. And it has. And the other was that it would be a pretty seamless transition transition to go back between automated and manual. And it's very simple. Yeah. Um, so I've been pretty happy with that as well.

Scott Benner 25:18
It's excellent. Very cool. Are you so you're going to have to hold off on G seven Dexcom. Until Ali pod five works with it?

Kris Freeman 25:28
Um, I guess so. That appears to be the case, I'd like to get on the seventh as soon as possible. And, you know, whenever Omni pod has sent me a little evaluations of their new system as keep this thing up to date with the latest tech. I mean, come on. Sevens have been development for years. And

Scott Benner 25:52
they're working. I think it's, I mean, I can't say I'm not allowed. I don't I should say that. I don't know anything. But it's my you know, it's my anticipation that it it all. It'll happen as absolutely fast as it can. But yeah,

Kris Freeman 26:07
I also want an iOS system. I do not want to buy an Android phone. But I might have to

Scott Benner 26:11
Yeah, no, I agree. It's funny to how I'm in every walk of life. That's an issue. I was looking at some technology the other day, I think it was like a somebody who was flying a drone. And their phone was the screen to the drone. I was like, That's really interesting. And like, show that to me, and they're showing to me. And they said, I switched from this drone to this drone, because it didn't have one of the I forget which one it was one of the other phones didn't work with it. And I thought, Man, that's interesting. That's, that's a issue, like across the board, I guess. Like not, I always just think of it as the things that impact my life. But there's something I have no knowledge of, and they have the same problem. The guys over there, like I wish it would just work with this phone. And I'm like, I don't know, like, it just, it's got to stop at some point being a problem. Like I mean, I don't know, I guess I don't understand the technology behind it or why it is an issue. But I agree with you. iOS would be amazing for for Omnipod 500%. So what I don't you I'm going to ask you the same question. I asked a lot of people in this I think I know your answer already. But I want to ask anyway. Do you think at all about getting your son tested? Like through trial net? Do you ever think about that? Have you done it?

Kris Freeman 27:30
I have not done it? I do think about it.

Scott Benner 27:34
You guys ever talked about it seriously?

Kris Freeman 27:38
Well, I will talk we were thinking more waiting till he was about six years old. For now take a look at

Scott Benner 27:46
it. And then how would you see that? Would you see it as like if you know, great, there's no auto antibodies terrific? Or if there are, we'll know what to look for, like, what's the feeling inside when you try to decide to do that?

Kris Freeman 28:01
Well, I mean, if there's if there's signs that he's gonna get diabetes, I mean, I would want to know, so that I could do everything I could to prevent it. What? What is, the feeling would be anxiety. You know, I've obviously learned to manage this disease quite well, but I would never wish it on anyone, let alone my son. So

Scott Benner 28:27
yeah, that well, that's, that's the thing right there. Right. Like, just because you're you found your way with it doesn't mean a no problem. And I've just heard people talk about it. And some people like I don't want to know if it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. I don't want to worry about it the whole time. I say, well, don't you worry about it anyway.

Kris Freeman 28:48
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm already worried about it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:51
Yeah. How would you not think about that, right. So I, I'm in the camp of I'd like to know, and especially with the TCL drug that just got approved from the FDA and the work they're doing with putting off diagnosis for people, just seems like knowing would be a would be the way to go. But I was just interested in how you felt about it. Also,

Kris Freeman 29:10
for my own transition, I was diagnosed so early on, you probably know the story already, but to recount it, I was training with the US Ski Team in Park City, and they gave fasting glucose tests to see how we were handling recovery. You know, so all my teammates are between 70 and 90, and mine comes back at 240. Which, actually, they didn't even tell me but that the first time it was like now if that was an error in the test. Like two months later, I was 270. And I got diagnosed, but at the time of my diagnosis, my agency was only 17.

Scott Benner 29:50
Well, all that activity was probably helping you right? Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Kris Freeman 29:56
But because I was diagnosed so early, it also really helped with transition because I still was in the honeymoon phase for a long time before I was fully dependent,

Scott Benner 30:06
yeah. And you looking back, you appreciate that that honeymoon took a while or because you hear some people talking about both ways, like people with little kids are like, I would just like it to be consistent. You know, I don't want diabetes to come full force right away, but at least it would be consistent then. But for you, I'm wondering,

Kris Freeman 30:24
um, for me, it was it was kind of it helped for sure. You know that. It took some of the some of the pressure off of managing because it helped. The downside was that I was constantly adjust, adjust adjusting doses. from month to month from year to year. What worked here before didn't work anymore. But overall, it helped to still have some of my own insulin production.

Scott Benner 30:53
How old were you at that point?

Kris Freeman 30:56
I was diagnosed just for my 20th

Scott Benner 30:59
birthday. So was that your first Olympics your training for or where were you in your career?

Kris Freeman 31:05
So I had competed in three World Junior Championships. At that point, I was heavily recruited by college, and I decided to go to University of Vermont. I went there for a year on a sports scholarship. And then the US Ski Team offered a residency program leading up to the 20 to the 2002 Olympics in Park City. And I decided to do that. And it was within four months of moving there that I got diagnosed. Wow. So I was initially kicking myself because my scholarship would have been guaranteed. And the US Ski Team, if you don't ski fast, you're gone. There's, there's no, there's no empathy there. So I was certainly feeling the pressure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:02
What's the first time you put a pump on? How old were you then?

Kris Freeman 32:06
I used in jet. So I was diagnosed in 2000. And I you I switched to Omni pod in 2008.

Scott Benner 32:13
Okay, so you did MDI for seven or eight years,

Kris Freeman 32:16
then? Yeah, that was all but I was doing it in a way most people don't. I was taking probably at least a dozen shots a day.

Scott Benner 32:26
You were might you were acting like a pump with it with a syringe.

Kris Freeman 32:30
Yes, constant, constant corrective boluses. I was. I was using rapid acting insulin, but I was also using Lantis. On occasion, I will use Atlantis and NPH at night, because I didn't want to have that much Lantis going through the day. It became as the honeymoon phase ended, it became more and more complicated.

Scott Benner 32:54
Yeah. So a science experiment there for a while. I have to just I have to comment that you like you're aging. So well. You look exactly like when I met you. I've embarrassed that at how I look versus how you look at right now. Like I just seriously, I if you were 12 feet away from me, I think that guy's 25.

Kris Freeman 33:19
Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Scott Benner 33:21
It seems like you're doing really well. I mean, it's a lot, right. Like it's a lot of activity, which guests helps with that. But still it's it's hard on your body? I would imagine skiing can't be easy on you. And then the diabetes on top of that. Are you seeing any ill effects of the diabetes at this point your life or?

Kris Freeman 33:38
I have I have no written up the I know that a doctor has not told me that I got any long term issues developing from diabetes at this point. Also, I've also, aside from you know, the 7.2 that I had a diagnosis I have never recorded and a one C above seven. Yeah, in 20 years. So. So I don't know, how many diabetics are out there that have done that. And I'd really like to know, where are the numbers that are going to contribute to long term problems? Yeah. is below a seven. Enough is below six. Where's the target? And then of course, there's going to be individualism in that.

Scott Benner 34:36
Yeah. No, I think that's a question that runs in everyone's mind. Like, because I get asked it a lot. Like, where's Okay, where how high is too high or how it lows? You know, that's the other question people are like, well, how low should I go? You know, people want to know, like, if I have a low blood sugar, am I okay? If it's, you know, 65 for a couple of minutes if it's this like it's it's always that, that desire to just be Have a goal in mind, you know, I think is this important and studies come out and they go back and forth, and they vary with their answers. And then technology gets better. And, you know, we start talking about time and range the last two years, which isn't something anybody really spoke about before, then. It's a, I mean, it's to me, it sounds like you're doing fantastic.

Kris Freeman 35:23
I remember, I remember hearing about the time and range thing probably 15 years ago. So it doesn't matter what your agency is, it's the time in range. And the doctor just kept ranting on this isn't just common sense.

Scott Benner 35:40
Right? If my if my a one C six and a half, wouldn't I mostly be in range?

Kris Freeman 35:46
If my blood sugar is always 50, or 250? Wouldn't that not be good?

Scott Benner 35:51
Yeah, well, that well, yeah, but you'd be surprised how many people you know trick there a one C test, basically, by being very low, and then alternating with being high and low. And then this test, of course, comes back just showing you a you know, immediate number, and you're like, Oh, my one C six. And, but but more, I guess that it is important to be talking about because more and more I do hear people say my A onesies lower, but I'm not coming upon it. Honestly, I know that. And you know, so maybe they education did work for that. But it's just it's an interesting idea that the way they used to talk about it versus now and that I mean, you've been through some management. You know, you weren't super old when you got it or it wasn't such a long time ago, but you had a little mph in there, but you were never mph and regular. You never were in that. In that mindset, I would think you're doing great. You know,

Kris Freeman 36:43
I never had to use regular. My first two insulins I was prescribed was humulin Hema login mph. And then as soon as Lantus came out, I ditched the MPH

Scott Benner 36:56
is Lance is all you used for those eight years.

Kris Freeman 37:00
Like I said earlier, I used mph at night a little bit too. In in conjunction with the Lantis. Yeah, because I didn't want if a big enough dose of Lantis to keep me in range during night would drive me low during the day when I was working out. Right.

Scott Benner 37:16
But you never made it to like the modern ones like Joseba, or those you weren't injecting at that point.

Kris Freeman 37:22
By the time recibo was a thing I was using the Omnipod get Gotcha.

Scott Benner 37:29
Does your I'm always interested in a married situation, how much interaction does your spouse have with your diabetes? Like from none to a lot? Where do you think

Kris Freeman 37:43
she's very good about thinking and thinking about it and understanding when I have to do things because of it. She's always there to flick my syringe before I fill up my pod, you know, if I want to wear it on my back, she'll put it there. She's really good about that. But at the same time, I do my best to not have it impact my family. And the way to do that is to be in range as much as I can. Yeah.

Scott Benner 38:13
Do you have give what you would consider a fuelling style? Like, is there a way you eat? You know, some people are low carb, like, you know, vegetarian? Like, is there a way you eat? Or do you just eat what you want, but know how to

Kris Freeman 38:28
tailor my diet to my activity level. Okay, so on a day when I'm not training, which is rare, Ollie, higher protein, lower carb and lower calorie, I'll try to match my calories to what I'm burning. And then on a day, and then if I'm training a lot in successive days, I will gradually increase the amount of carbohydrate to replace it. Because as the glycogen stores get burned off, the you become that much more sensitive to the insulin in the system. And I can I'm burning that much more carbon. Yeah,

Scott Benner 39:06
you're making me think of watching my son to when he got home from when he got home from college. He, you know, in between his years, he was always training. And even at the end, you know, there's a couple of months there where he just kept going, like, I think out of like, just habit, like he just kept training because it's what he did. But on days when he was going to work out on a baseball field and lift at the same time, there's times I'd look over at him and he'd have a bowl with like pasta, and you know, like there was protein on the side. And he's chicken and I'm like, How could you eat all that and it's like, I don't even want all this, I just I need this or I start losing weight or you know, it was interesting to watch that happen because I don't think most people actually if we all thought about it a little more like that it might be valuable for some of us, but it was interesting to watch him do that. The diabetes is

Kris Freeman 39:58
really instant feedback. Back on whether I'm fueling enough or not, you know, if a suddenly my regular Basal insulin dose is driving me low, I'm probably a little bit carbohydrate deprived and vice versa. I'm driving up, then I'm probably eating too many carbs for my activity level. Yeah. But as far as do I follow a diet, I don't follow a paleo thing or a super low carb diet. But I avoid processed foods like the play. Yeah. But there's the last thing I want to eat. It's it really is getting foods in their natural form. The body just breaks them down. It's more predictable. And it I don't like use the word using the word healthier, but I believe it is healthier. Yeah.

Scott Benner 40:49
Well, you're not a person I've ever looked at and thought to ask what your favorite pop tart flavor was. So that's

Kris Freeman 40:56
all Yeah, I think it's been it's been at least one year since I've had a pop tart. Yeah.

Scott Benner 41:00
I I wonder sometimes when people talk about processed foods, if everyone even imagines the scope of what that means, you know, like, because you'll hear people say, like Whole Foods or, you know, natural, I wanted something that's natural. But processed can mean anything from pasta to bread to a potato chip, like anything that is, you know, I think the simple way people say it is like, if it comes in a box or a bag, I don't eat it. Is one of the you

Kris Freeman 41:29
can totally find organic, non GMO processed food. Yes. It's not hard at all.

Scott Benner 41:34
Yeah, right. It's still, it's still it's that the process that goes into creating that, that thing I know, some people would like, would balk at you even calling some of it food. But to create that food, your body then has to go through more of a process to break it back down again. And, you know, and there's a lot of stuff in there, you just don't know what it is. I am a fan of just I need to know what I'm eating. At the very least, you know,

Kris Freeman 41:59
and that's the it's the, there tends to be a lot of simple sugars and processed food with the fibers stripped out of it. Which makes you know, the blood sugar spike more quickly. It's just it's not a natural food. It's it's more erratic. Yeah. And it very much shows up when I when I'm trying to balance things with insulin.

Scott Benner 42:23
Can you tell? I mean, when's the last time maybe you haven't had a tough time, but I was gonna say, could you tell on your performance if you haven't eaten as clean as you want to?

Kris Freeman 42:36
Um, well, I can't tell you the last time I didn't eat clean before an event. So I can't say on a on a training day. Maybe. But I also if I was doing a heart interval session, once again, I would eat clean beforehand. It's very rare that I don't. And it's generally because there's nothing else available.

Scott Benner 42:57
Do you think that that's just how you're hardwired that like right now that this conversation isn't making you think like, wow, I have not had a cheesesteak in a really long time. Like or something like that, like, you just did you grow up that way? Was it in your family? You know what I mean?

Kris Freeman 43:14
Um, diabetes definitely changed my relationship to food. And it is. And I don't know that this is like, relatable for anybody, but I very much view food as fuel. And, you know, obviously, there's certain foods that I enjoy eating, but I enjoy being able to do the things I want to do in my day more than eating that food. And if eating that food is going to impact the rest of my day in a negative way, or impact my blood sugar's in a negative way. It's just not worth it to me. Yeah. I don't, you know, you I hear people say, a lot of term use and diabetes is I'd get to eat this many carbohydrates today. And I just, I, I guess I try to steer away from viewing food as a reward, and more as a means to an end.

Scott Benner 44:14
But the reason I asked this because I, I agree with you, and I can tell you that from in my personal I mean, you and I are not, you know, there's there's an argument to be made that if we were standing next to each other, we wouldn't be able to. Some people might not think we're in the same species. But my point is, is that I agree with you about eating and on days when I eat like that. Everything's just better. I don't know another way to put it like, you know, the other day I went out and I bought some steak, and I made it up and I sliced it up and I put it back in the fridge and you know, got up and it was late in the day. I took a couple of eggs, I threw in a couple pieces of steak, and I threw it together and I had it for breakfast. I had a great day. You know, put a I had something with a salad. I threw a little more of my steak and I did that, like you skipped throwing croutons on something like I don't put a bunch of dressing on, I have a great day, the next day comes along. I don't know why my brain doesn't say keep going. Like, I don't know why I'm not stuck in it like because I agree with it. I definitely feel better when I do it. And then, you know, by Wednesday, I don't know what happens. Like, I'm just wondering like,

Kris Freeman 45:19
because we're biologically programmed to want to eat a lot of sugar fat.

Scott Benner 45:26
It's a you're you

Kris Freeman 45:27
don't have diabetes. So you don't have an immediate consequence for when you get into it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:31
I don't have a thought right away. It's like, well, I can't do that. So that that is really it is that something is going to happen to me that I'm not going to appreciate, you know, somewhere between I don't know how my energy in the bathroom, basically, like in that range. And but it's not, it's not something you're right. It's not something I have to deal with in the moment while I'm eating the food. Yeah, maybe that is the difference. That's interesting. I appreciate you talking about that with me.

Kris Freeman 45:58
You know, I also I wanted to back up to what you were saying about the soccer game. And you know, kids, parents trying to figure out how to dose their kids at the soccer game. And once again, it's that I really believe that diabetes treatment starts with your diet. If you eat a good diet of non processed food, with appropriate amount of calories, that is the where you start. And then you then you go into the various treatments, the various insulins, the various monitoring systems. If you are living on if you're giving your kid Froot Loops before your your soccer game, you are not going to manage his blood sugars during that game, it's just not gonna happen.

Scott Benner 46:41
Yeah, you're gonna need a ton of insulin, either you're going to either you're going to combat that cereal with a ton of insulin, that is probably going to come back to bite you in the ass when they're running around. Or you're going to ignore the cereal, not hit it with enough insulin, have some big high blood sugar that got the kid lackadaisically wobbling all over the soccer. And then you're gonna have hours of a high blood sugar later, and probably the activity from the soccer won't even be enough to get through this arrow.

Kris Freeman 47:07
It's so you know, with all of my activities and stuff. From the scientific method, I tried to get the I'm blanking on the word, the residual insulin, what's the what's the proper word for residual

Scott Benner 47:24
residual insulin,

Kris Freeman 47:25
insulin on board? I tried to I tried to get the insulin on board down to the Basal, right. And that way, when I when I'm working out and something doesn't work, I know why. And I can go back and I can make a minor adjustment. And try again, if you're a parent trying to only correct with insulin once the game is started, it's too late, right? It's two or three hours before the game that's important.

Scott Benner 47:52
Everything you do with insulin now is for later. Yes, yes. Yeah, you're never making a decision right now that's going to impact right now unless you're saving a falling blood sugar. And that's not what I'm talking about. But I like when my

Kris Freeman 48:05
race is, you know, it is my last meal is three hours at the latest before that race. And anything I eat between then and the start of the race is only for correcting purposes.

Scott Benner 48:16
Yeah. Well, I think it's good for people to hear how it works. And listen, it's not going to be the same for everybody. They're not everybody's not going to make the same decisions. But it's always been my Well, Chris, for the last number of years in the podcast, like I've what I've said is I'm not in charge of how you eat. But I want you to understand how insulin works. If you're going to eat Froot Loops, I want you to know how to Bolus for Froot Loops. If you're not, I want you to know how to do that. I think your settings are incredibly important. You need to understand the impact that insulin has on on the carbs, you have to get those carbs and that insulin in a tug of war while you're eating so that neither of them can kind of win, you know, but in the end, my goal is for people just to live well. And it just but it's interesting to talk to you because you are doing it in such a specific way. And you're having such specific outcomes, it shows like, like, I'll tell you when if someone comes to me and says I can't figure out this time of day, the first thing I'll say is why don't you like eat something that's a little less, you know, maybe not as heavy with the glycemic load. And you know, and give yourself a chance here to understand how this insulin works. And then if you want to add you know what I mean? Like, don't make it a college level course on the first day is kind of how I think about it. So I think a package got delivered to my house. And now both of my dogs are making sure that we all know about it. So kind of going back to my question about like, did you grow up in, you know, a setting that would set you up for thinking of food and activity this way? Not so much. It just kind of worked out that way for you. But now your son's gonna grow up in a life where like his father and your wife, if I'm not mistaken, right are really active people. So do you In your mind, I know he's only little. But do you hope that he goes the route of a sport or plays in college something? Or do you have different feelings about that now that you've lived through it?

Kris Freeman 50:16
I'm gonna provide him with as much opportunity to do sport as he can. But I, it's gonna be difficult for me because of my competitiveness, but I'm gonna try to stand back as much as I can, and let him decide what he wants to do. If he wants to be an athlete, he'll be an athlete, and I'll certainly give him every opportunity to pick the sport he wants to do.

Scott Benner 50:37
So, even if it's one you don't like, what sport Don't you like? Do you have one that you just don't enjoy?

Kris Freeman 50:42
Ah, well, not really. I mean, I like playing billiards, but I don't want him to be a professional billiard player. Yes. All right.

Scott Benner 50:57
I'll take a stand right now. We didn't let our kids play soccer. But it was, it was my wife grew up on a soccer field, watching her sister's play. And I think she just didn't have the heart to keep doing it anymore. But okay, so I want to go back all the way to the beginning. You talked about I know, you sent me your article, which I'm going to put up in conjunction with the podcast episode. But you go to this thing where you describing what I mean? Sounds like walking up a mountain and skis and skiing back down and kind of take me through that. That process like, like from a diabetes perspective, how did that day go?

Kris Freeman 51:36
Well, the race starts unfortunately, really early. It starts at like, eight in the morning. So I was up at 430. Make sure that I had my breakfast in by five. And I had to, you know, I've thought long and hard about how I was going to dose for that race. At that point, I was still using, I think you would refer to it as the Omni pod three. I skipped the dash. I went straight from the three to the five.

Scott Benner 52:06
Just you went, you didn't go down. You were using arrows, pods. That's what that's what the originals were called. So you went from arrows, you didn't use a dash. Okay, so you were using that one?

Kris Freeman 52:16
Yeah, when the dash came out, I looked at the benefits. And there's nothing here that I really want. So I just kept going with

Scott Benner 52:22
what I had you were okay with that old PDM.

Kris Freeman 52:25
Yeah, well, well, I also knew that it was, I mean, I've dropped that thing riding my bike at 25 miles an hour and still works so. So I woke up three and a half hours in advance and I wore two pods. And I had each of them giving me point six units per hour, instead of my usual Basal rate of one unit per hour, and that so 1.2 and that was to offset race nerves, just little little disturbances in the morning as you try to set up your transition zones and stuff. I'll no matter how good I am at relaxing, I still get hit with a little bit of adrenaline that will raise my blood sugar's really go through the process in the morning. So then I had that set to drop down to only a quarter unit. So point two, five units from each pod for the start of the race. And I had that running for an hour. Okay. Then, oh, excuse me, I had that running for an hour and a half. Then I had it dropped to a rate of point three combined. After that hour and a half. And I left there for about an hour before I tore one off.

Scott Benner 53:51
Okay,

Kris Freeman 53:52
that's part of the reason I wear two pods is because it's very easy to make a correction by tearing one off.

Scott Benner 53:58
So this is I'm dying to know, like the process here. Like what so what's the benefit of the two pods?

Kris Freeman 54:04
The benefit of the two pods is one if one fails, which does happen still have I can instantly just changed the pa i can i can get the controller and change the dosage as I need to. So it's kind of a failsafe and a longer race. The other is that if I'm running equal boluses I mean, equal Basal rates as I'm going along, and I am trending low without having to take the time to pull my PDM out change the dose I can just pull the pot off. Interesting. Okay. Wait half my dose

Scott Benner 54:40
that well, that's that's really a Chris, you've been at this a long time. You are your own science experiment, aren't you? And so you got

Kris Freeman 54:50
I have to tell I just have to say that Omni pod I believe absolutely hates that. I wear two at a time because they that goes against every legal.

Scott Benner 54:59
I would imagine that So it's not an FDA approved situation. But you're in a unique situation, right? Doing something that No, nobody's going to do really like I mean, anybody else, you know, if their pod, their site goes bad or their pod stops working, they can change it and go along their way. But you know, those people aren't climbing up a mountain on skis, or how far was a? What races? Did you compete in in the Olympics? How far were your cross country races?

Kris Freeman 55:25
So the longest race I did was 50k. About 30 miles and depending on snow conditions, that would take between an hour 50 And two hours and 20 minutes. Wow. Whereas this race we were just describing took me so I'll go back through the events again. So I did a six mile fat bike through the snow on cross country ski trails, so it's pretty slow. But that takes that took me about 25 minutes. Then I switched to a 10k cross country ski. That took me another 25 minutes. The snow shoe was just God awful. I was through like two feet of snow and I kept postholing. Do you know what postholing is? No, I stay out of the snow. Falling is if there's like a little bit of a crust on the snow from when it melted and refroze you kind of run along for a couple of strides on your snowshoes and then all of a sudden breakthrough up to your groin. And you try to keep going. Well, I was the first one through and I was just postholing for five miles. So it was God awful. That took me over an hour. And then it's the last event is called it's actually called US Ski mountaineering and got this super lightweight carbon equipment. And you've got skins on the base of the skis. And the skins are like a fabric that allows you to glide a little bit, but also kick on the ski, so you can just run on them. And I wore those as I ran up Mount Washington, to basically the top of the head wall. And then at that point, you ski down the head wall and back out to the parking lot. Just so it was three and a half hours in total.

Scott Benner 57:11
Does everyone finish? No, no. I mean, I'm imagining there's a dropout. A significant like, what do you think? How many people do you think started? How many people finished? You know?

Kris Freeman 57:23
I don't know, I think there was about 80 individuals. And then there's a team event as well. I don't know what the dropout rate is? I didn't I didn't really look there. But for sure, when you got five events. And you know I did in three and a half hours, a lot of people are taking over six.

Scott Benner 57:45
So what would have to happen, Chris, for you to give up in something like that?

Kris Freeman 57:52
I'd have to, I'd have to have an extreme blood low blood sugar without a means to correct it. Or I'd have to be extremely high without a means to correct it. Or I'd have to hurt myself. Yeah.

Scott Benner 58:07
So obviously, if you hurt your leg, you'd stop. But what if you had to hurt myself badly? I was gonna say what if he just fell and broke your elbow? You'd keep going? Right?

Kris Freeman 58:19
You Yeah. And I think that might be that might be genetic. I mean, my, my father is 75 years old. And four years ago, he was doing a ski race. And he fell. And he broke his pole. And he hurt his arm. And he got another poll, but he couldn't really use it. You know, someone handed them another poll. And I saw him at the finish of the race because I did the race too. And I saw him skiing around with one pole and thing down as he broke his pole. And I get over there. He's a Can you help me? I think I think I might pass out. What's wrong? He's like, I think I broke my shoulder.

Scott Benner 59:04
He was, uh, let me see if I'm remembering this right that he do some sort of farming when he was younger.

Kris Freeman 59:09
Yeah, he was a pig farmer in Iowa. Okay. So, you know, I drove him to I drove him to urgent care. And sure enough, he had broken his shoulder. And I said, I said to him, dad, you know, you broke your your broken shoulder at a point on the course where it was only one mile back to the lodge. Yet you skied five miles out of the way to finish the race before you got there with a broken shoulder. Why did you do this? I didn't think it was that that.

Scott Benner 59:38
You have any siblings? I have an older brother and an older brother is the athletic.

Kris Freeman 59:44
We he was at the 2006 Olympics with me in cross country skiing. No kidding. Okay. Yeah, he was he's the loser of the family only went to one Olympics. Just one

Scott Benner 59:54
Olympics. Reminds me this week, I keep seeing the The Kelsey brothers as the lead up to the Super Bowl comes up the one guy is the Senator for the Eagles, the other guys the tight end for the, for the the chiefs, and they're trying to talk about which one of them's more successful. They've both been like, you know, a handful of Pro Bowls and both won a Super Bowl. And I was like, I don't know how you can't really denigrate one of those resumes, you know what I mean? So, yeah, just one just one Olympics. So,

Kris Freeman 1:00:24
basically, my point is, is you know, the, the way I interpret pain, it might be different than others on my father has incredible pain tolerance, so does my brother. So, you know, when I was a kid, my we would wrestle with my dad and he would make us say mercy, but he couldn't make my brother Say mercy. And he even said to me, once, my dad said to me, I can't make him say mercy, because I'm pretty sure to do it, I would have to break his arm. I'm not gonna do

Scott Benner 1:00:53
that, to give up, but I'm not willing to go that far. Well, it's a hell of a good trait. I mean, it's obviously serving you well. And it's laudable. Hey, other other autoimmune issues in your family at all, have celiac. Hashimoto hypothyroidism. Yeah. with you or with somebody else.

Kris Freeman 1:01:13
I'm borderline. I'm kind of that. I monitor it very, very closely. And if if I crossed a certain threshold, you know, I start probably having to take small doses of levothyroxine. But my father has been hypo 30 years.

Scott Benner 1:01:34
Okay. And his his Hashimotos Do you know is that autoimmune? Yes. Yeah. All right. I can't thank you enough for coming back on and doing this with me again, you're one of my favorite people to talk to about diabetes. And, and I just I really appreciate your perspective.

Kris Freeman 1:01:52
Oh, thank you. It's always fun to talk to you too. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:01:59
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, G voc glucagon. Find out more about Chivo Capo pen at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox. You spell that g VOKEGLUCA g o n.com. Forward slash juicebox. I also want to thank Chris Freeman, remind you to find him on Instagram, and Facebook. I'll tell you a little more about that in a second. After I thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter contour next.com forward slash juice box when you support the sponsors with my links. You're supporting the production of the show

on Instagram, Chris is Chris Freebird, KRISFRE bi or D. And on Facebook. Chris is always accepting new friends on his personal page. Chris thought Freeman dot 5836. But you'll see him there's a picture of him skiing in this like black suit with a number one on his chest and might be a seven with another set but the number seven on the chest. Sorry. Check him out. He's great. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.