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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome to episode 986 of the Juicebox Podcast

today I'm going to be speaking with tourists. She's had type one diabetes for 20 years, and we're talking about eating really in this episode nutrition and gut health and digestion. I really enjoyed this conversation with trees. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. are becoming bold with insulin. Don't forget drink ag one.com forward slash juice box to get started drinking ag one don't forget also a double don't forget if you will. The offer code juice box at checkout at cozy earth.com And you can get a test drive of the Omni pod with my link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box where it see what you think for free. The diabetes Pro Tip series has been remastered the audio is magnificent. And it will be rereleased in the podcast feed very soon. At episode 1000. Look for it. If you've heard it once. Listen again, if you've never heard it, oh my my What do you miss it a lot. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom not just Dexcom the Dexcom G seven continuous glucose monitoring system, use my link dexcom.com forward slash juicebox links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To cozy Earth Athletic Greens only pod all of them use my links to support the show.

Terese Martinez 1:55
I am Teresa Martinez. I'm a registered dietitian and certified personal trainer living up in Spokane, Washington.

Scott Benner 2:06
Alright, Therese, here we go. So we started recording quickly because we were chatting beforehand. And we wanted to record you'll you'll learn if you start a podcast, there is no conversation worth having if it's not being recorded. Gotcha. Eventually, you'll be having an interesting conversation with somebody, you'll be like, I don't want to waste this here.

Terese Martinez 2:27
I feel like I've noticed that with you and Jenny, sometimes it's like that you will have like been talking off or you're planning on talking off and then you will have come on just to like record it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:37
well, it happens a lot. So anyway, you were just saying that you were gonna start a podcast about tell me what it was about what it's going to be about.

Terese Martinez 2:44
So essentially bridging the gap between folks that are interested in intuitive eating, and don't really have the knowledge base to figure out how to kind of utilize nutrition in a healthy fashion that doesn't require a lot of, you know, recording and over analysis of intake. Loot, usually why people come into intuitive eating in the first place is that they don't want to do that. They want to resolve the relationship with food. But helping individuals come into a space to utilize nutrition effectively. And then also pulling people from the other end of the spectrum that are into like, optimization, I'm not sure if you're familiar with like, biohacking and just kind of like orthorexia, and just the other end of like super duper, health focused individuals that are kind of trying to find their own balance with how to utilize that knowledge. And again, a healthier way to resolve the relationship with food. And so that's kind of like the gist. And so there'll be a lot of like, nutrition education, Women's Health Topics, some nerdy science stuff, and and then a lot of, I would say, more conceptual ideas around nutrition, and health and body image. And just Yeah, trying to kind of bridge the gap there.

Scott Benner 4:14
Is that idea of intuitive eating, is that from the book, or is that not where that idea started?

Terese Martinez 4:20
You know, and there's kind of a rich history with intuitive eating. But yeah, there's a there's foundational literature that, that that started with the book, and then there's kind of been, let's say, just like webs coming off of it. So for me, I'm not a certified Intuitive Eating counselor, like I have done a lot of work with it personally. And then additionally, with some clients, it's more my goal is to help people trust their bodies more. And I do that by helping them heal their bodies, to which they can kind of navigate and trust their hunger cues and Hunger signaling more. Versus Yeah, because it's otherwise if you have if you have a compromised metabolic system, and it's really hard to actually be able to trust your, you know what you want to eat. And so because a lot of times, if you are used to eating a certain way, for example, if a person consumes a ton of sugar, there are physiological effects that make you crave sugar more, right, so it's like, you can think that you are trusting your body because you're listening to what it wants. But ultimately, it if you create a healthier Foundation and the body it will kind of crave more appropriate foods to then again, facilitate more appropriate hunger signaling, if that makes sense. But I'm also like, very of the mindset. I do not like to, you know, take foods out, I don't really, um, kind of like all foods fit type of approach. But

Scott Benner 5:58
yeah, what's your background educationally?

Terese Martinez 6:01
So I have a bachelor's in kinesiology and Master's in dietetics. Nutrition and Exercise Physiology. Okay.

Scott Benner 6:11
And you have type one. Yes. Yeah. How old? were you when you were diagnosed?

Terese Martinez 6:16
14.

Scott Benner 6:17
And you're how old now?

Terese Martinez 6:19
34.

Scott Benner 6:20
That was 20 years ago. Uh huh. So easy.

Terese Martinez 6:24
I got I got using math for I was thinking about that. Thank

Scott Benner 6:26
you so much. I appreciate it. That's a pretty long time. That's regular an MPH, right?

Terese Martinez 6:32
Like when I was diagnosed what I did, yeah,

Scott Benner 6:34
do you know, you remember what insulin you used in the very beginning? And

Terese Martinez 6:37
I honestly want to say that I don't think I was ever on regular.

Scott Benner 6:43
Oh, you okay, you might have been right at the cusp, right?

Terese Martinez 6:46
I feel like I've like, forever been like a nova log gal. But I'm

Scott Benner 6:51
so sorry. Um, my math is terrible. Like, I got so excited because I knew 34 minus 14. But that's it's it's 2002. I don't know why I said that. I had I had you in the 80s. For some reason. It's my fault. Yeah. Okay, so do you use a pump?

Terese Martinez 7:07
I do. I'm on the tandem. Okay.

Scott Benner 7:09
Do you like it?

Terese Martinez 7:11
I do. I am someone that really manipulates basil a lot. And so I don't do control IQ. I really like having the ability to kind of, you know, do Hi, I don't know, like 50% Basil prepping for a walk. Or, you know, if I'm seeing my blood sugar drop. I really liked the ability to manipulate basil. It's one of the biggest reasons I don't go on MGI. But but I'm not, you know, and I'm so used to the tubing now as well. That it's

Scott Benner 7:45
Yeah, I like it. Like, excellent to use the CGM.

Terese Martinez 7:49
Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:50
Dexcom. Great. Well, so at the very beginning of this, when before we were recording, you started, you were like, I'm gonna start. I asked you why do you have such a big microphone? And you said, I'm going to start a podcast? I was like, Oh, no kidding. So you said you might have some questions, I would do my best to answer. Just remember, if I say anything, that's that bums? You out, please. It's not my fault.

Terese Martinez 8:13
Yeah, well, I guess I would just be curious about like, the honestly, like recording, I can see we're doing zoom. And then what do you use to edit.

Scott Benner 8:24
So I would tell you that a lot of people would say not to use Zoom, but I have a lot of luck with it. And the way I record and edit, I think people would tell you not to do as well. So I am using GarageBand. I record in GarageBand. And I edit in GarageBand. And then I, I run my file through a program to balance out the audio between your track and my track. After I do editing, which is generally speaking, never for content. Unless I'm editing out like a curse word. I only keep the podcast clean because it keeps you in more countries. And because there are some people in the world that hear a curse word and it really turns them off. And for as many people who enjoy cursing, and there are plenty of them. I don't want to alienate anybody. So anyway, so I'll record an episode. And then when I go back, I really listened to it. I take out weird noises or breaths like I've been over COVID recently. And just now in between breaths as I inhaled, my breath bounced, like, like that, which you might not hear but I hear and I take it out when I'm editing little stuff like that. And then I record my ads put in the bumpers and output the file. That file then gets like I said, like scrubbed so that it balances your your voice in my voice. So we're equal volumes. And then I put it online to my company that that hosts my podcasts and they You're on your way.

Terese Martinez 10:00
So you do your own editing, have you considered like outsourcing?

Scott Benner 10:06
I mean, I'm not paying anybody to do that.

Terese Martinez 10:09
Yeah, I mean, if you're already pretty good at it, then I guess there wouldn't I just get a little overwhelmed with that stuff.

Scott Benner 10:15
I know people do it. And with success, I would imagine. But I'm in the position of being able to say that this podcast is the entirety of my job. So I probably work about 70 hours a week on it. And probably seven or eight of those hours are just recording like you and I are doing now. And then the editing is double that time. And then there's probably another hour for making ads and bumpers for each episode. And then there's supporting it on social media, and there is trying to monitor the private Facebook group, and then talking to the advertisers and having meetings with them. And now, that's pretty much the whole thing. So yeah, a lot. It's the whole job. I would say, though, I mean, if you can figure out the editing, I mean, how many episodes do you think you're gonna make like a month?

Terese Martinez 11:12
I'm thinking like, once a week is probably, I think that's kind of the

Scott Benner 11:18
doable? Yeah, yeah. Do you have guests? Do you think you're gonna use guests? Do you think you're gonna just talk to your talk,

Terese Martinez 11:26
I do like a feature already on social media, that's called carrot talk, where I kind of break down certain topics around body nutrition, you know, what's going on in the research realm, and, but mostly, it's kind of a, an opinion based, you know, little talk. And so I have, I want to do like a feature of that maybe twice a month or something. But I would mostly want to have guests, I really, that's one of the things I'm looking forward to the most is just the interaction, the conversation, the discussion, the hall, I just, I feel like I was like, meant to do this kind of a thing. Because it lights me up so much to to learn from others, and just to also engage around these topics. So definitely you guys

Scott Benner 12:13
nice, they're going to be your biggest issue as far as sound quality goes. So there's that problem. That's why I use Zoom, because it keeps everybody on a reasonably level playing field. And they don't need to know too much to do it. You have to make them wear headphones. Gotcha. Okay, or else, your voice will come out of their speaker, and go back in their microphone. And it'll be doubling all over the place. And there's, you can hear the reason your room got quieter when you put headphones on, I'm guessing. But are you in a room that doesn't have a carpet?

Terese Martinez 12:50
It does have a carpet?

Scott Benner 12:52
Is it real thin? Or is it fluffy?

Terese Martinez 12:54
That's kind of fluffy.

Scott Benner 12:56
Okay, I'm wrong about that, then. So that was my first guest is that you were in a hollow sounding room? Is it a big room is that? Well, big windows? Okay, so that because I could hear you bouncing around in there. And it's, it's a thing that if you and I would have recorded that way. everyone's ears would have got accustomed to it. But I think the truth about a podcast is maybe before content, it has to sound good. You're not going to be successful. That doesn't sound good. Yeah, as a matter of fact, when new podcasts pop up in my space, if I become aware of them, I might click on them for a second. And if I hear a noise, I just immediately think, Oh, this one won't be this one won't challenge me in any way. And I'll just go away. I'm like, this isn't even going to be a problem, then it's terrible. Nobody's going to listen to all that crap. Like it's just spend a little money on your audio. Make sure you can keep up with it before you spend too much money on equipment, because it's harder than you think to make a podcast on a schedule.

Terese Martinez 13:59
Yeah. What? So using zoom, though, I've kind of heard read, whatever it was that they're like the internet connection, there's something about getting a software that I mean, it seems like of course, you need to have some kind of internet connection, but maybe not like there's something around that whether it's remote software's that are that you can use for remote podcasting. Is that familiar to you at all?

Scott Benner 14:25
What company are you thinking of hosting with?

Terese Martinez 14:28
I was looking at Riverside, but Buzzsprout

Scott Benner 14:34
I don't know them. But my hosting company does offer where you can record with somebody in the file, they record the file on online, like you don't even have to record it. You just get the file and when it's finished trying to think okay call that I'm clicking to try to find out. I think it's called the company's Libsyn and it's called studio files. They're a little they're expensive. They're like offensive bass compared to some of the other ones, but they've been around a long time. I've never had any trouble with them. They're actually really amazing. But yeah, I would I mean, if you can do that, where you guys just get on the same link and have a conversation and it's recorded remotely? That might be great. I have no idea. I've never done it before. But I like being in control of everything. So yeah, and the reason mine doesn't sound like zoom is because I'm not recording in zoom. I'm using zoom to bring in your signal. And then I have hardware here that takes the digital signal and makes it analog. Because I have an analog signal coming from this mic. This is not a USB microphone. And so I'm, I'm blending analog and digital together and then recording it as digital. Okay, yeah, I don't think the way I have the way my computer set up. I don't think anybody would come in here and think to do it like this. Okay, I think it might be because I didn't know what I was doing when I was setting it up. But it works really well. So yeah, yeah. Any other questions to win here? Howard? It's gonna be or how no one's gonna hear your podcast, probably. And how hard that is to take when that doesn't happen. Say that, again. I said, Do you want to hear how hard it is when you put all this work into something and put it out on the internet, and then look, week later and 30 people downloaded it.

Terese Martinez 16:20
I'm preparing myself for the resilience needed, more or less, but also getting into just because of the dang enjoyment, you know, like I'm approaching this just almost a kind of hobby. So I know that again, with all of the work, it might get a little bit more taxing than I'm anticipating and how much of a hobby is it going to be, but but I really just anticipate a lot of juice, getting a lot of juice from the conversations and kind of hoping that that continues the drive to create and educate others. And that being sufficient enough, even if I'm not reaching that many people, but yeah, I agree

Scott Benner 16:59
with that. 1,000,000% Because the person who started making this podcast, whoever I was, then my knowledge of diabetes is exponentially larger than that now. And it's not because I found that experience in my home, or in my life or my daughter's life. Although, yes, but it's the having the conversations over and over again, and saying something and then one day thinking, oh my god, like how do I never think of that before? Yeah, no, like, that's, that's the thing that it does more than anything for the listener and for you as the host, is it kind of gives you a place a space, an amount of time where you can without thinking about anything else? Really just delve into this. Whatever your topic is. Yeah, yeah. It's like giving yourself a Master's class and not knowing what to teach yourself when you start.

Terese Martinez 17:53
Yeah, the evolution. I'm looking forward to that.

Scott Benner 17:57
Terrific. Yeah, I really, I think it's amazing. I having said that. You've got me on the day. At some point in this afternoon, the podcast will achieve its 10 million download.

Terese Martinez 18:08
No way. Today is the day. Oh my gosh, kind

Scott Benner 18:13
of crazy. This is January of 2023. And in January of 2015, I launched the podcast and it had slightly over 1300 downloads that month. The entirety of 20 of 2015 had, I think 26,000 downloads for the whole year like 12 months. This month, the podcast will do well over half a million this month.

I don't want to brag but that was five months ago the podcast has over 14 million downloads now. Keep on rolling. Why am I here? Oh, I know. dexcom.com forward slash juice box. The continuous glucose monitor that Arden wears could be in your home. All you have to do is go to the link and get it you can get the G six or the G seven Arden is we're in the g7 we love it small and easy baby love it love it love it goes right on click click Done. Warm Up 30 minutes done, hardly weighs anything. She can't tell she's wearing it. It's difficult to locate under her clothing. You know what I mean? When you can be like, Oh, I see somebody's device very hard to see dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. But here's why you really care. When you're wearing a continuous glucose monitor when you're wearing the Dexcom. You can see the speed and direction of your blood sugar plus the number. What number is it? What direction is it moving in? How fast is it moving in that direction? Are you kidding me? In real time on your iPhone or Android device? You know when people say the greatest thing since sliced bread and they argue about If it's air conditioning or whether it's Dexcom dexcom.com forward slash juice box, I'm going to give you an actual example. Right now I've opened my phone, click swipey with the finger Arden's blood sugar is 142. She just ate about an hour ago. And she's had a cortisone shot recently. So we're using more insulin than normal. And we're able to be aggressive like that, because I can see her blood sugar in real time. So her blood sugar started, right before the Pre-Bolus, around 90. Yeah, about 95 Pre-Bolus did a good job held around 110, she meant up a little bit 30 minutes after the meal into the 140s made it as high as 148. It's coming back down. Right now I see 142. I see she's moving a couple of points every minute. And I can see the angle on that graph. I know her blood sugar is heading back where we want it. And looking at all of that, and interpreting it in real time for you, right on my iPhone, you can do this to dexcom.com, forward slash juicebox. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. There are links in the show notes of the audio app you're listening in now. And links at juicebox podcast.com. To Dexcom. And all the sponsors, please consider using them.

Terese Martinez 21:25
My gosh, that's just bananas. Scott. I mean, like, fat, let's like 2015. Like you've been doing this for a hot minute. And I mean, just even being a part of the Facebook group. It's like, it is the it is there's so much going on there. I mean, like the the the amount of people that have been impacted. I mean, it's just wild. I can't imagine just how like, that feels for you. I don't know, I think

Scott Benner 21:52
it's very satisfying. Yeah, it's humbling, which sounds like a thing people say, but it really it really is. And it took it took so well, to give you more context, a half, half of the 10 million downloads came in like the last 12 months. It took me I don't think I've ever said this on here. But it took four years to get to a million. And I didn't know how I was doing. I had nothing to judge it against right. And then a another diabetes podcast that started just a few weeks or maybe a month or so after mine. I forget exactly when honestly, it was long time ago. I noticed they didn't like announce a million downloads. And I was like, well, maybe they're just not going to. But then like a year later that podcast was like we have a million downloads and I thought okay, I got there a year sooner than they did. Like that was the only thing I had to judge it against. Right? I had no idea. I was just I was judging it against itself and nothing else. But then this outside thing came in. I was like, Okay, well, it made me feel like I'm like, Alright, I must be doing okay. Yeah. And then the second million came only 12 months after the first million, so four years to get through 1,000,005 years to get the 2 million. And then 676 And seven, year six and seven. Took me from 2 million to 5 million. And then year eight went from five to 10. Yeah, I have no idea what's going to happen this year. I've never leveled off which I'm going to knock on something. There's always like, but but the randomness of it. Trees. This is the point is that rough numbers. You'll hear people say there's like 4 million podcasts in the world, but there aren't, there's 4 million part RSS feeds. So somebody got the idea to start a podcast, got you know, got the name held on to the name, you know, got the RSS feed for it never did anything with it. Of those however, many millions of of of part podcasts that aren't actually published, I think about a half a million of them publish on at least a monthly schedule. And 90 I forget if it's 95 or 96% of those half a million don't do enough downloads to interest in advertiser. So 4% of a half a million podcasts are the only ones that have ads on them. And that's that for the ads don't need to be important. I'm using it as a as a metric for how many downloads that the right stuff, right. So too you can have an incredibly popular podcast in a niche and it not ever rise to the level of like, like, you know, I don't know a sheet company coming along and saying we want to buy sheets. You know, we want to sell sheets on your thing, right? Well the reason that popped in my head is because I just had a sheet company contact me about buying but so but it's it doesn't make it not impactful because for all those years prior to when the podcast got bigger. I was still Seeing it help people online. And that was the whole value of it in the beginning, you know, just like, wow, look at this. And then it gets to the point where you start thinking about, you know, if it reaches 10 people, can I get it to reach 100? If it can reach 100? Can I get to 1000 1000 10,000? You start thinking that way. And then that's about time. At least it was for me. Like, do I have enough time to put into this to grow it? And that's when the advertising became important? Because they're, no, no, just because I could ignore other adult responsibilities and put them into the podcast.

Terese Martinez 25:35
Was there was there ever self promoting you did like did you reach out to like, doctors offices or like other I mean, I know, Jenny, Jenny, how early did Jenny Come on?

Scott Benner 25:46
Jenny was on in the first year as a guest. Okay, I liked her a lot. And she never left my head. And then I had her back. And then I thought, I want to do something more with her. And then I asked her if she would help me make the Pro Tip series. Okay. And that was the first time and Jenny's not an employee. She doesn't like make money.

Terese Martinez 26:05
Right? Right. Right. Does that? Yeah, I was just thinking it's like, because I'm sure she probably like mentioned it to some of her, you know, her patients, right. And so like thinking if there was any, any other like promoting that you had done or just let the podcast do its thing and kind of hope that people others would like talk about it, if they listened to it and got something from it. Like just leave it up to to those webs? Or did you do self promoting?

Scott Benner 26:32
I genuinely believe that the only thing that can grow? A podcast is word of mouth. That's it. I don't see how you could do. I mean, think about your own life. Have you ever been served an ad for a podcast? Probably not so much. No, they tried a few years ago, when Malcolm Gladwell his podcast came out, he got behind it. He was pumping out Facebook ads for it. And you can argue and maybe it worked for him, but I don't know what they spent on it. You don't I mean, I don't think you can advertise a podcast. I think you I think it's like a I don't know, it's like it's Hold on a second. Why is my dog barking? There's people in the house. Hold on a second. Why tech? Somebody? Do your job. And stop that dog? There we go. That's the my wife. We're home today for the she's on for the holidays that I so anyway. I don't think you could spend enough money to advertise your way to success. Yeah, I think you have to put out a thing. And this is gonna sound pompous. But I don't mean it this way, like people either like it or they don't. And if they do, then you have to hope that they tell somebody else about it. You just the entirety of the game.

Terese Martinez 27:50
I mean, I rave about the podcasts that I listened to, you know, like, constantly like talking about them. That's one of the reasons I wanted to make, but it's because I just like I get so much from them. So I can I can see that. And you're

Scott Benner 28:04
not alone in that, either. Because there are people who go above and beyond to try to help me get the word out about this podcast. And you know, like, I hear people say, like, Oh, my I got my doctor to listen, or my neighbor or I bumped into somebody somewhere who had a pump, and I told them about it. It's all just, I mean, listen, I think I think this podcast is entertaining. But I think at its core, it helps people. And I think that's why they're willing to tell other people about it. Because there are certainly there have certainly been refused to this podcast and say, the content of this podcast is amazing. I hate that guy. But, boy, that's like the best thing anybody could ever say. It's like, oh, I listened to you. And your little podcast, even though I don't like you. I was like, Oh, you must really must really be good for you. You know. I mean, that's, that's pretty much it. It's it's a grind. And you know, six, I've never I was thinking this today. It's so funny that you're talking about this. Because as I was approaching 10 million, I'm gonna like write a post to thank people about it. And one of the kinds of themes that popped in my head while I was thinking about the post was that the podcast, I'm very proud, and somewhat disappointed. It has never experienced any kind of viral phenomenon. Like, I've never gone from one to 10 or from 10, or from 10 to 100. It's always tiny bit of growth. And it plateaus, and then it jumps. And then it plateaus, then it jumps and plateaus. But the jumps are never like wow, like, you know, I don't know what must happen when someone goes like on the Joe Rogan experience and says, you know, I have a podcast about this. Then the next day, they're the top 100 of all podcasts or something like that. Like I've never I've never had an experience like that before. And I I think that that's why the podcast is stable. And I think it's why the online community is stable as well. So as much as I'd like this See the numbers just jump. I think that it's better for the people who listen to the show if it grows consistently. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty much it. I mean, I wish you a ton of luck. It's it's a lot of work. And I mean, do you have a good a good focus? So I think yeah, good. Thank you.

Terese Martinez 30:19
Thank you. Yeah, I'm really I'm excited about it. It's, uh, I don't know, just kind of trying something new and finding something that gives me you know, juice where I can also like, help other people. It sounds like a pretty, like a win win kind of situation. So it's a

Scott Benner 30:36
great way to spend your time. I can tell you that. Yeah, totally. Do you want to practice? I mean, you want to interview me? Or do you want to move on and talk about diabetes, but I want to talk about gut health and some other stuff, too. So yeah,

Terese Martinez 30:47
no, yeah, that works. Cool.

Scott Benner 30:51
Well, we'll let you, you can think of some of the questions and ask me at the end. I so in your intake, you talked a little bit about eating disorders, substance abuse and coping was this from your personal experience? Or is this professionally?

Terese Martinez 31:05
Personal? Yeah, it's a big reason why I got into the field that I

Scott Benner 31:10
did. What happened? What was first?

Terese Martinez 31:13
Yeah, so. So timeline wise, diagnosed type, 114 years old, pretty active individual, right, like, did play sports growing up. And I remember, I was at soccer practice, and I just like, I could not drink enough water, I was going to the bathroom constantly. And I think I had spaghetti for dinner previously before practice. And I had been losing a lot of weight. And, and, you know, then that night, I got this really crazy bad headache and went to the doctors, blood sugar over 400 got driven to Seattle Children's Hospital, and they diagnosed me and in any case, you know, got put back on insulin. And I actually don't remember, like, a lot of weight gain being an issue. But I remember, that was when, you know, I started focusing more on food as one would, you know, when they have this good diagnosis, and the seeds started to get planted of the shoulds insurance, right? And then being 14 years old, going right into high school, I now have this kind of bombardment of pressure to fit in to look a certain way to also like getting this kind of, you know, input from people's magazine. And you know, the real housewives or whatever it was at that time, where there's, of course, massive focus on the way that I should look and things that I should be eating and shouldn't and so it just kind of seeds were planted, then and watered, then I just kind of consider like them being water from a bunch of different sources. And I remember a breakup I had in freshman, my freshman year of high school. I, I don't remember like, why I thought that this was an option. But it was the first time I engaged in my eating disorder bulimia, where I purged. And it it didn't, it was kind of like a one and done thing at that time. But then it it grew in my sophomore year and then junior year and senior and to this full blown eating disorder combined with having type one diabetes, where I was hiding in the bathroom stalls getting myself insulin in high school because I didn't really want I didn't want people to you know, I didn't want that attention. I wanted attention but not for that. And so I was trying to highly overcompensate with from my diabetes diagnosis getting like, you know, really good grades in school all like IB classes, high level classes, making varsity and all the sports like really trying to separate myself from this condition. When in reality, I was just really fueling the the disorder. The substance abuse didn't quite happen I think until maybe late high school and then for sure, in college and

Scott Benner 34:25
can I ask my question, you said a breakup like did you like have a conscious thought? Like if I was thinner, this guy wouldn't have broke up I'm assuming it's the guy I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, wouldn't have broke up with me.

Terese Martinez 34:38
That's a really good guy. You don't know how many times I thought about this Scott, but I don't remember having that. Like I just remember thinking like,

Scott Benner 34:47
if I look different if I was different somehow, the kind of

Terese Martinez 34:51
I think honestly though, it was like maybe I need to like look a certain way then to make sure I will be appealing. and to others, you know, I find that when I like growing up, I was never, like, no one's ever really commented on my body in a negative fashion. And so I think there was a lot of fearing what would happen if I were to not maintain the look that I had. And so there was it just started with control, right? It was just it was a, it was a means of controlling my body so that I could control how other people thought of me. You know, in my mind, that was how it kind of was. And then, you know, when especially when my body essentially, quote unquote, failed me with having diabetes, it's like, you know, what else? What can I make sure I am in control of since I am not in control of like, the inside of my body, apparently. And so. Yeah,

Scott Benner 35:54
any pressure from parents? Like, snide comments, or just like, you know, that mom thing when they say, like, Oh, you look so pretty. You look like you gain weight, like that kind of stuff. All right. Any of that?

Terese Martinez 36:07
Not so much. I mean, I wouldn't say it was anything out of the norm of what everybody else would be saying, you know, if a person what you'd hear too, like, Oh, you look so good. Did you lose weight or like a lot, even towards me, but like you hear it, you know, when you hear people say that to other people, then that means that like, there's this kind of translation where like, oh, losing weight equals good looking that way equals good equals attention and equals, like that self of like that affirmation. And so even if there was nothing directly towards me, because I saw it with others, I had felt the pressure to maintain something myself.

Scott Benner 36:44
Do you think that that's, I mean, people have said to me in the past, like, Oh, you look good. Did you lose weight? And it's never, like, thrust me into an eating disorder. Do you think there's like a mindset that, that makes that a fertile field? Or? Or? Yeah, a brain chemistry? Maybe not mindset? Like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what I'm asking. I'm just trying to pick through it.

Terese Martinez 37:04
Yeah, for sure. So I think it's a it's a multifaceted, right. So it, it kind of depends on the individual. And what I considered. So this is a term I'm not sure if you know who Glennon Doyle is, but she has this, she has a term called the gas and, you know, everybody's got this kind of like stamina and the gas can be, you can apply it to a lot of different topics. But for example, the gas of external pressures, people have to like, look a certain way and be a certain way, right. So basically, gas can be magazine pictures, it can be diet fads that get thrown into your face, it can be you know, social media, it could be your family, it could be the doctor's office, it can be telling people to lose weight, or you know, whatever it is, like, there can just be this bombardment, this reiteration with your peer group, you know, what you see how you see guys talking about other women and like, just all of that, right, so, this is the gas and, and everybody experiences a different degree of it. And they also have a different stamina for it, right? So, like, I know, I know, women that have, like, you know, really dealt with, you know, parents that give them crap for looking a certain way. And then, you know, getting bullied because of their weight or whatever, and they are some of the most confident like, screw you kind of people. There are right and then there are others that just don't really have that degree of exposure. And I'm not, you know, like, like, for you, for example, you know, you probably have them have had, like a much different childhood and experience when then, you know, like, a female growing up, you know,

Scott Benner 38:58
yeah, Nobody's expecting me to be anything like this. Seriously. Yeah. Nobody has any. I've never once heard anybody look at me, oh, my god, Scott would look so much better if his thighs were thicker. Like, you know,

Terese Martinez 39:10
the pressures, the pressures that you have, like you had externally and then how that translated internally, you know, like, are probably very different. And there are just like, so I mean, it just it gets so it's so deep Scott, like, we it's not just like, I want to look better, so I can get another like a guy like because how many or you know, whoever I'm attracted to that might be like, what I'm told is is attracted to this look. Yeah, it's a really It's like a It's a self worth thing and a respect from society. People crave, I mean, how many? How many people are married, that you may know, that still talk about diet, they want to go on look better, and they're in like great, flourishing relationships. It's like, well, they're good to go when it comes to finding us. nificant other why are they still trying to look a certain way? And a lot of it is acceptance, it's insecurity with how they they fit in and in this society, and and what they and what others might think of them, right? Like, what does looking unhealthy equate to? Does it mean that they're lazy? Does it mean that they, you know, aren't prioritizing their health? And what does that mean for the individual? Right? And so it comes down to a degree of self worth, that we have been told for our whole lives. And then additionally, that, you know, we aren't going to be lovable and accepted. If we don't, which is the order that there's the narrative that we are and that people are unhealthy and certain bodies that do not fit that mold. And so it's just been?

Scott Benner 40:50
Yeah, I'm so sorry. I thought you were done. Like, so that's, that's basically, when you're saying told You mean, like, by external influences, not necessarily saying the words directly to you, but the things that other people find important or popular or something, you look at those things? And you think, Well, I'm not, I'm not enough of that. Whatever that thing is, that's being told being told is just seeing it outside.

Terese Martinez 41:19
Yeah, the the gas, the exposure to to that, or Yeah, or even for for individuals that they are told specifically that they need to lose weight to I mean, it can be much more direct, it just never was, for me.

Scott Benner 41:33
It's fast, I find it. Like, the whole thing is really interesting. I mean, it sucks to be like to say that about the way people, you know, struggle, but it is fascinating. It's fascinating to see two people in the exact same situation. And one of them just acts like it's not happening and the other person seems very impacted by Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's just really, it's fascinating. For the person that's happening to, it's terrible, but from an outside perspective, it's just, it's endlessly interested by it. So, so the eating disorder stuff turns into substances, you mean drugs,

Terese Martinez 42:14
mostly alcohol. And, and that was, I mean, I don't want to say a natural evolution, because I definitely know you don't drink and a lot of people that like, never got into drinking in the first place that like, never been hungover, which is like, wild to me. But like, just because of where I was in my life, like in like, later on in high school, kind of, like, I don't know, what the groups that I was hanging out with, it was just around, it was around at parties, and then it just got to be an escape. You know, and after a lot of therapy, I mean, so many years, I had made this connection with alcohol and diabetes, where, you know, since like, given the exhaustive nature of managing your blood sugar every single minute of every day, alcohol, and, you know, drugs, in general, can be a wonderful relief from that duty, even though it's not that it gets gone. But you can kind of feel like, it's not there for the time being. And I think I did that, rather, subconsciously. And then, in addition to the, like, you know, the narrative that is society telling me that, you know, the way to have fun is with alcohol, and this is how you get attention from boys. And this is how you can, you know, like, maintain popularity and whatever all of that was, too. But I also had made that connection with with, with diabetes and alcohol for a while,

Scott Benner 43:51
can I ask a question that's gonna sound really harsh, and I don't mean it to, but I've gone through it in my head three times, I don't know how else to say it. Go for it. What is and I'm not talking to you directly. It's the conversation. When you say like, you know, using drinking as an example. And like, this is what I'm supposed to do to gain acceptance and to meet boys and etc. And like, where's the line that says, like, you could have also just said, Well, that would work, but I'm not going to do that.

Terese Martinez 44:19
Yeah, I guess that would have taken more influence of or, like, knowing the other routes and having those look appealing. You know, I guess at the time, nothing else really had the same kind of appeal. And, I mean, even like my family, like my parents have drinks and like they don't like, you know, get drunk or whatever, but like it's been around so I'd always like just assumed that that was the way the truth in life, you know, you know, yeah, it's just like the light. It's like, that's how that's the next step. up, right? It's kind of like, go into college and getting a job and a 401k or getting married, like all of that thing. It's like, oh, this is just part of what you do in life. And, and I wish I knew differently on a lot of those things at this point, but, but that is, you know, being one of them for sure.

Scott Benner 45:17
It's just, it's fascinating to me, because I had no good modeling growing up at all. Like not, and my kids had good modeling and around this topic, and I don't know, like, and you hear people say things like, Oh, I went to therapy, and now I'm doing much better. And you think, well, maybe they wouldn't have been cool if they could have gone to therapy before it happened or forget therapy, but like, if someone would have just told them, like, it feels like it feels like, what I hear you saying is that I grew up, I didn't know any better. I, I fell into these things. At some point, they became overwhelming, and I realized I shouldn't be involved with them. A therapist explained to me the right way to be. And that's what I do now. Is it does that, like, at its base level? Am I following that correctly?

Terese Martinez 45:59
Yeah, I mean, to a certain degree,

Scott Benner 46:03
there's an aspect of it, I'm missing, I just don't know what it is.

Terese Martinez 46:06
Yeah, I think that like, like 100%, having, like, different difference hadn't like intervention more or less, like at an earlier age, to intervene with the behavior, but be it my eating disorder, or alcohol, whatever, I think would have benefit. And that's why I would also, like, I've got five, almost like, Well, four or four nieces at this point. And so my, I have massive intention of like really facilitating positive body image and nutrition and like, and anything to kind of help them see how they can really have fun and get juiced up without substances, you know, all of that because of my own personal experience, and wanting that kind of, you know, those other options and other the understanding to be different. But ultimately, I also like, how No, through the therapy and the continued introspection and self reflection and evaluation of like, why I continued the behavior for so long. And now the way that I am not, and I'm not saying that I am, like, without issues at this point. But the continued evaluation provides, like such, I don't know, like a much more well rounded understanding and therefore a better ability to help others and continue to help the healing of others that have experienced similar, you know, concerns and issues as myself. And just to get on like, nipping in the bud essentially, right, get ahead of it before things get worse for other individuals.

Scott Benner 47:53
No, I mean, it's I don't think there's any obviously an answer. And I also was not saying I'm perfect. I'm just, you know, just around drinking. As the as the example. I don't understand. I don't get it. Like I just none of it makes and I don't mean it like pejoratively like I don't get it, what the decision you made. I mean, like, it doesn't strike me at all. Like, I can't, I don't know how to articulate enough that you could there could be you could fill this room with drinking happiness. And I'd be like, Well, I gotta leave this room. Like, I want to, I want to leave here now. And I don't know why. Nobody in my family was drank. There is no like drunkenness that I saw. There's, I mean, some drinking my dad drank beer, my mom would have wine periodically. There weren't nobody was a teetotaler, but nobody, I'm just saying people weren't falling over at events, you know what I mean? Like, and so I don't have a perspective, even from either, like, dret drastic side of it. It just, I just know that when it's happening. I don't know what to call it. Like, I want to call it common sense. But that seems insulting. So I'm not saying that. Because I don't, I also don't think that's what it is. It just, it just I repel that idea. Like, we're like two opposite magnets when it happens. And I couldn't begin to explain the science behind it. Which is why I find it really fascinating. But it's also terrific to hear people tell stories like this, and and see how they came out the other side of them. Yeah, and I'm in a particular place right now, because somehow my schedule got, this is gonna sound odd. And my schedule somehow got so full of young women who have tried to commit suicide over the last seven days. And I don't know how that happened. It wasn't on purpose. But I have now recorded like three episodes in a row around that topic. And I'm just like, my brain is deep into why do things happen to people? Yeah. So,

Terese Martinez 49:57
I mean, I just kind of go back to the You know, the analogy of the gas like, I mean, because I feel like if I didn't, I mean, alcohol is kind of complicated in the fact that it is addictive as well, right. But you have these different like influencers to and then your own desire to like kind of fit in, I suppose into these certain social circumstances that may, you know, have it around, and, and then it just gets reiterated and reiterated, and then all of a sudden, you've kind of like have this developed habit. And if you, you escaped that initially, then it seems like of course, you wouldn't have the appeal. And then you're kind of on the other side and seeing like, behavior that doesn't look appealing. And you know, like, you're not, there was no seed planted of like, this is fun. Maybe I want to continue this. And so therefore, you just don't even have that route to deal with.

Scott Benner 50:57
I wonder too, how much of it has to do with the idea that I've never, I don't have any recollection of a time where I wanted to fit in with other people. Mm hmm. Like, I've never, I've never looked at a section of like, like as a kid, but like, Oh, those kids are really super athletic and play a lot of sports. I want to be part of that. Or there's the drug kids, I want to be a part of that. I never felt like that. I I sometimes feel like I wish people could see things the way I see them. And as a matter of fact, when I was very young, and people would ask me what I wanted to do for a living. I told them I wanted to like write books or movies. And when people asked me why I said, I would like if people could see the world the way I said, but that was my only like, childish answer. So I don't know,

Terese Martinez 51:46
Steen. Gosh, that's Yeah, that's cool, though. I mean, like, I am envious of that I feel honestly embarrassed, like saying

Scott Benner 51:54
the word I feel boring.

Terese Martinez 51:58
Well, no, I mean, like, it's like, yeah, like, I don't feel like anyone really wants to admit that they are driven for like to be accepted by other pupils so significantly, that they like drive themselves to damage their body and the degree that they do and like, I don't know, I'm part of like, What I also do a lot of like, looking into diet, bulimia, you know, just any eating disorders in general with type one, and oh my gosh, it's like, it just makes me My heart just breaks, like hearing what some of these individuals, you know, put their bodies through. Because of the the absolute terrifying nature of gaining weight. And it's like to me, like if I weren't to have already just, you know, dealt with an eating disorder for decades of my life. It's like, I would look at that and be like, How Why Why in the world? Are you doing this to yourself? It's like, how is it so important to do that, like, you're gonna lose a limb? What do you think about your, you know, your body then and it's like all of those judgments. But mostly, I just get so upset with the gas, like going back to it just like how society has like really catered to that narrative. And what that does to people to be, you know, to many people, at least,

Scott Benner 53:22
to give you an odd perspective, I've often wished that I felt that a little bit. Because I cared more about about my body. I've said on here before, and I won't go into deep detail, but I don't see myself. I see myself as my thoughts. Like when you if you asked me to describe who I am, I would describe to you how I think about things. And, and so I there's part of me that thinks that if I felt this is gonna sound ridiculous, but if I felt a tiny bit of the pressure that you felt a little bit of it might have been good for me. Because I might have thought, well, like maybe I should go for a walk. You know what I mean? And yet I don't like I don't know, I am aware. Now, that's not even fair. When I was younger, I knew I was chubby. And as an adult, I don't think about it. If I look at pictures, like I go back in history, there are a couple of times in some of my photos that I think I wish I looked better here. But it's because I want my kids to enjoy the photos. I think about the future I don't want them to look at it and think oh, like my dad was carrying 20 pounds. He should not hear. Like it's very little to do but if my health was impacted, I would suddenly care a whole lot. Right? You know, right. It's super weird. The lines that you draw on your head, you know?

Terese Martinez 54:46
Yeah, they're just the motives, right? Just all of yah,

Scott Benner 54:50
yah. Yah, yah, I don't have any like, I don't know, like I don't want to be able to throw something through something or lift something or I know I don't have any You desire to walk into a room and have like people look at me and go oh attractive like you know it means like I don't I don't have that feeling I'm the only time I'm aware of it if I speak on stage I and they want to film it I tell people I'm like you have to get above me like you cannot shoot up from me me from the ground up if you do that you're not allowed to use the as a matter of fact is touched by type on put out this big video of their last event that I know I was filmed for like an hour and a half for that I don't I don't appear in for more than a split second. And when I didn't know people somebody said to me like are you upset that you're not that video? I was like upset they listened to me. I said they are they are they're respecting my wishes right now. I don't want I don't want my chin shot from underneath so you

Terese Martinez 55:53
but then why would you don't care? Then why

Scott Benner 55:57
that's the only time I care. It's a double chin is the only thing I care about.

Terese Martinez 56:01
What is the double chin say about? You

Scott Benner 56:02
have no idea. I have no idea. I hate it though. I really dislike it. If I got plastic surgery tomorrow I would have my my I would have the fat under my chin sucked up. Ah, that is the thing that I would if you gave me five grand you were like you could have to spend this on plastic surgery. That's exactly what I would do. So I don't know. I can't tell you why. It's the one thing about it's the one thing about my appearance that if I see it I'm bothered by. But if I don't see it. I don't think of myself that way. Yeah, I don't know how to explain that. So

Terese Martinez 56:34
yeah. Yeah, just kind of interesting, because it's still something right. It's still some it's still. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 56:43
well, I don't think anybody doesn't care at all. Like they're right. Right. That's I just have enough that. I don't know, I've joked about it on here in a number of different ways. Like, I think everybody needs like a little bit of narcissism, like the healthy kind, where they can just be like, I don't care about what you think. Because, you know, I just, I don't usually double up recordings, but I've recorded already today. To know that there was, you know, 20 years ago, this young girl around the age you were when you were having these troubles, and she tries to take her life. And when, when her mother finds out her mother says like, why would you do this to me? And what are the what are people going to think? And like, and that, that kind of stuff. Like, like, that's the kind of stuff that I don't, I can't wrap any of my head around at all. And to see how it impacted her throughout her life. And by the way, she's doing terrific now. And that's what I was gonna say about your story, too, is I like talking about this, because at the end of it, most often what I hear is, I'm doing really well now. You know, and that's, that's encouraging. Because if we can't like, I think we just spent a half an hour deciding that there's no rhyme or reason for why some people react one way and some people reacted all the way. So in the situation in the reality where some people are going to react in the way you described, isn't it great to hear that there's a point where you can relieve yourself of it as well.

Terese Martinez 58:04
Totally. And I would like to highlight though, that I don't know if there is like, an after. Like that, I I saw this a kind of interesting, I don't know, I'm gonna make an analogy, where, you know, when people do before and after pictures for like weight loss programs, or, you know, whatever diets and stuff where the this guy was talking about how, you know, the after picture isn't really after, because it's, it's just that snapshot in time. Like, once you're done with the, like, the diet or whatever it is like when is after really like you have the rest of your life now. So like, what about the after and six months, a year, two years, all of that, right? So still, like, there's no finish line? Right? And I would consider like for me, I'm not you know, like, I'm not, I'm not sober. It wasn't really my intention to be like, sober. It was like my intention for all of my therapy, all of my self in inquiries. So introspection, like all that, like I continue to do every single day is to get to know myself better and then understand the behaviors because they serve a purpose. I think that that's really important to understand, like, they they're serving a purpose. It's not just like, they are there just because right like, like I would even say with a high school thing. It's not necessarily like you don't just get in and stick to Busan and and binging and purging just like because you saw like it advertised or something somewhere. It's like you find it works for you somehow for some thing. And so then to identify what that is, and to additionally do the work outside of it to help remedy when you take the behavior away, is really important. It's kind of like, you know, being a dry drunk, where you you might not booze but you're not connecting why you did in the first place to anything and doing any of the other work with it. And so I think it's incredibly important to understand that I'm not here to say that like you, if there's never a light at the end of the tunnel, I am better and healthier today than I have been in my whole life. And it's taken a lot of work, but a lot of really amazing, amazing work. You know, it's not like, Yeah, and so I just think that it's yeah, you and

Scott Benner 1:00:45
I are saying the same thing. And we're using different words, because I didn't mean, because I don't see people this way. I don't mean that as the example of the of the person from the other thing that I didn't mean that, you know, there was a time in her life when she was depressed, and she tried to hurt herself. And now, you know, she's a, I don't know, a pencil sketch of, of a princess. And everything's perfect. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't mean that. I mean, that, that it didn't kill her. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, she doesn't live in the same horror that she lived in at that moment. It's not the same, it might not be the same reality that a person who never went through what she went through, realizes. But for her, it's a massive improvement, and a real and a real life that she's living, where she's not tortured constantly. And is that is that about what you're saying? Like it's a process, and you're always going to be going through it. So you can never really consider yourself, I guess, completely free of it.

Terese Martinez 1:01:44
Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't trying to, like, know, anything you were saying I was planning on, I just didn't want to Yeah, there to be a misconception of like, I'm, like, clean and sober for 20 years now or whatever, you know, whatever. Why

Scott Benner 1:01:58
didn't take you though. Yeah. Thank you that way. I know, for sure. I

Terese Martinez 1:02:02
just wanted to clarify, in case that was confusing for anyone, but like, Yeah, I mean, 100%. And I think that it's just, I think it, it's so for me, when I like going through my eating disorder, it was so helpful, whenever I could just latch on to hope, right? Like, that was like that, I have hope, right. Because when you don't have hope, you don't have anything, when you're going through that crap. Like, you just feel like it's gonna be like that forever, and you are in the thick of it, and you are never going to get better, because you haven't proven to yourself that you can get better. And if you don't have any evidence for anyone ever getting better, it's really hard. So I think it's so helpful to say and see these stories, for others that might be struggling, that there is hope that things can get better. And there is also you know, like, it's also just frickin life, man, it's just a journey, and there's gonna be like, there's there gonna be ebbs and flows to how a person, you know, comes to the other side, or lives on the other side and goes back to the other, like, the former side, and then that comes back. And, you know, it's like, it's just understanding and giving yourself grace. And the journey, I think, is just equally as important as just trying to have that time like for my and my experiences, like having like time, quote, unquote, clean of disordered behavior. So, yeah, but yeah, I think we're kind of saying, you

Scott Benner 1:03:37
know, 100% i. So here's a little tip for your when you're making your podcast, sometimes people say things, and then you say it a different way. So it gets reiterated. So the person listening has time to listen to a complex idea and hear sometimes I'll say things because I'm putting myself in the shoes of the other person who's listening, but I appreciate your were you I wasn't worried that you thought like, No, you idiot. That's not what I meant. But, but But it's worth talking about, because it really is. And it's worth talking about in depth. Because I do think that that's, I think that I think that both things can exist at the same time that you can be a person who's experienced the thing, and is never going to be quite free of it. But it doesn't mean that you have to live like shackled to it either. Oh, 100% Yeah, so that's all Yeah, very good. Okay, so what do you know about this? gut health stuff, because I want very badly to bring more evidence to the podcast, but every time I look into it, and I pay attention to people were talking about it, I think ah, wacko. And then I don't listen anymore. Yeah, I've seen you listen to the show, don't you? Yeah, yeah. So there's, there's like things that I've like, I've learned that are working for Arden. And for me, you know that half clearly to do with the balance of whatever exists in my stomach and my digestive tract. But have you had any personal experience with it?

Terese Martinez 1:05:11
Yeah, so a lot of my research has revolved around the gut microbiome. And it's one of the targeted areas in like, with what I do with my own, in my work right with my own clients, because of the the nature of the gut involving everything else in the body, right. So like, I talked about people kind of improving their relationship with food and developing Body Trust, and then healing the body, kind of from the inside out to help again, facilitate more accurate hunger signaling, and again, kind of go into more body trust. So the gut microbiome, and I have not listened to I'm not sure if all the episodes that you've had with God specialists or anything's,

Scott Benner 1:05:57
well, I've had no Oh, because I can't I can't bring myself to invite one. Because every time I look, I go seems right, then they get a little crunchy hippie, weird, and then I'm like, No, nevermind, like, so I can't find the one. I can't find the balance between medical certainty and the ability to speak around medical certainty. Like, I just don't find that person if you want to be that person. Hey,

Terese Martinez 1:06:22
yeah, let me see. Let me see how I can roll this out. And if it feels kind of appropriate, in that sense. So yeah, um, so I kind of got into the gut microbiome, honestly, when I started learning about its relationship with immunity, and it was like 70 to 80% of your immune system resides in your gut, I have an autoimmune condition. What's the relationship here? Right? So then I was kind of dug into like how the health of your gut and like, impacts your immune system, how a compromised gut microbiome with the perfect storm can trigger autoimmunity. And so then I was like, okay, so how, how do you improve the health of your gut. And it's really interesting, and I don't know, just like a quick, a quickie little blip on what the gut microbiome is, for those that might be a little confused here. Because I was told this one way of explanation, and I really like it, it's a good little visual. So you know, you got a tube from your mouth to your anus. And so technically, like, everything inside that tube is like outside of your body, which is kind of wild, but But you go down your digestive tract, you know, esophagus, stomach, small intestine, you've got some bacteria in your small intestine, you actually have a whole mouth biome to I mean, there's tons of bacteria in your mouth, that actually impact your gut and the rest of your body, but we'll just keep going down down the track. And so some bacteria in the small intestine, if you have too much bacteria in the small intestine, you actually can have something called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which leads to a lot of symptoms like bloating, and indigestion cramping a little bit higher up, you know, in the tract. And so, a lot of people have issues sometimes even when they eat kind of healthier foods, like cruciferous vegetables, or garlic and onions, and they get bloating after that, which is unfortunate, because it's their foods that are promoted to be really healthy. But in any case, if you have bacteria in the wrong places, like the small intestine too much, it can actually cause a lot of GI distress. So if you keep going down into the large intestine, this is where we have the bulk of these bacteria. And we've got a diversity so that basically the different kinds of bacteria and then the ratio of sort of To put it simply good and not so good bacteria, and so where people, so these bacteria play a massive role in health, they can impact their skin health, there's like Hormonal Health, inflammation in general, how you digest foods, how you utilize nutrients of foods, and it just that it's there's a whole cascade, there's a gut brain connection, there's like a ton of different ties to mental health and the state of your gut. And so having the appropriate distribution of bacteria, and the right diversity, the diversity and the ratio is really important. And that's one part that's like the biome, but that's one half of gut health. The other half is the lining of your digestive tract and how important that is in maintaining this proper working unit. Right. So if you have a compromised lining of your gut, that gi tract, then you can continue to have issues with inflammation and problems kind of cascading out throughout the rest of the body. So when a person is trying to help heal their gut, they want to feed the right bacteria, and in the right fashion, and then additionally, consume nutrients that facilitate keeping those tight junctions along the digestive tract, well tight. And so that's kind of the basis of, like, gut health and what it looks like,

Scott Benner 1:10:36
I have to say that I've seen enough of it in my life by personal life that I believe in it. And, and I wish there was more targeted ways to deal with it, because, you know, it runs the you run the gamut of like, someone on Instagram, dancing to a song and then pointing to their screen where they're like, eat sauerkraut, dude, and you're like, Okay, well, I can't eat sauerkraut. And then it's, you know, take a take a probiotic, but they don't tell you which ones or how many and why, or when or anything like that, or what it is I'm looking for. And the only the only things we've figured out so far is that a digestive enzyme assists Arden with her digestion. And we assume her digestion is poor, because of her pancreas being wacky, that she wasn't eliminating on a schedule. So we added magnesium oxide, which completely helped with that, you know, the probiotics didn't seem to be working when she wasn't digesting food well, but after she was digesting food, well, the probiotics seem to have a good effect on her

Terese Martinez 1:11:46
in terms of regular bowel movements, in terms

Scott Benner 1:11:49
of just overall general happiness with the process from your mouth to your butt. Got it? Yeah. Because because we tried to throw probiotics and I've put this this way a couple of times the podcast, but she was not digesting our food well. And we tried to throw probiotics in there. But it felt like you were throwing like a tiny chlorine tablet into a cesspool. Like it just didn't have any chance, you know what I mean? So once we got the digestion running, and the elimination running, then I think her stomach as an example was probably a more, I don't know, reasonable place to try to put the probiotics again to see those again. And everything seems to be going very well since then.

Terese Martinez 1:12:28
Good. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, there's an there are a lot of kind of, I mean, for sure, like digestive enzymes can help sometimes there's even like, issues with stomach acid, right, and just had to know there's a lot of a lot of ways a person can tackle like improving digestion that like that aren't necessarily like just gut microbiome like concentrated but it does have a huge role in that and I just like to also reiterate the role that it hasn't like so many other functions in the body and it's tough like you mentioned I mean, people can say have a probiotic have kombucha and sauerkraut and like these are all great you know, yogurt great for your your gut health and when you have when you don't treat the individual as an individual and or if they don't understand where to get the appropriate information. Like I said, you can have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, you can take a probiotic those guys are going to set up camp in the small intestine and you're going to make that misuse worse. Right? So you it's important to understand where you state where you are, like with your own health, and then get things catered to it and so some of these other I don't know, kind of like, like even not necessarily just the magnesium but some people will latch on to okay, you know, this you know, Metamucil helped me go to the bathroom, so I just take it every single time I need to go the bathroom versus understanding why in the world are you not going to the bathroom without Metamucil? You know?

Scott Benner 1:14:02
Oh my god, Teresa. What a great example. I had trouble my whole life. And Metamucil fixed it for me. I thought I thought but it didn't really it just masked it it just made sure that everything ran through so efficiently that I couldn't outwardly I wasn't certain of my problems being there anymore. But now that I do what Arden does a little bit of a digestive enzyme when I eat probiotic every day the magnesium oxide every day I eliminate fine and I don't use the fiber anymore. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I thought the fiber is what I was missing

Terese Martinez 1:14:43
right and to a certain degree, like you may not have been getting adequate fiber like sure otherwise, right? Like if you're looking at your kind of again, roots root issues like perhaps you you did need to essentially like feed certain bacteria to kind of get things like help with gut motility, which is basically the movement of, you know, crap. And, and so, like, but I would still be curious to kind of look at the intake in the first place, you know, because it's the same thing with a digestive enzyme. It's like, okay, why isn't the body producing enough? And sometimes it's a very legitimate reason, and it's very okay to be have these things. But I, I do really like to keep backing it up, for lack of a better term, I suppose, you know, to understand why you are the way that you are. Because otherwise I get just concerned about band aids and then not then can you know, kind of compounding issues down the line. And so it can be really helpful to have that evaluation.

Scott Benner 1:15:47
Right? Well, I, I was I was having problems with stomach acid. And I don't have those problems anymore, either. Oh, okay. So it's just interesting how just getting everything moving? Was and you're I did not do my kids both did, like a gut health test where for people who don't know, you, basically, you sit on a piece of cardboard and send it off to somebody and they test it. And, and my, they both came back were in different states of being and my son was really pretty close to being like, perfect as far as the testing went. But our didn't had too much of what you were talking about. She had too much. I guess, bad growth. And not enough. Not enough good. But like I said, and they wanted to give her these things, but nothing worked. But I think it was just because the process inside of her was working so slowly that her stomach was just inhospitable. Yeah,

Terese Martinez 1:16:45
yeah, totally. Well, the other thing, too, I mean, I noticed this, I mean, across the board with some with with clients, but when you when you start having regular bowel movements, like people don't understand like, that's like, for, like, for anyone, but for women, especially like having appropriate bowel movements is a is a way to detox estrogen. Like, that's how you get rid of estrogen in your body, one of the ways and like, so it can help facilitate better hormonal balance in your body as well, which can regulate periods, it can regulate cycles in general. And also like moods with all of that, like, there's a massive tide of the hormonal stuff. And then and skin issues, too. I feel like a lot of folks that would type one even have like, a lot of skin issues, and it would kind of take a look, okay, we already are compromised, we've got an autoimmune condition. So is that like, when had knowing the connection that the gut has with immunity? Like, where else? Is this having a tie with the rest of the manifestations of symptoms in our body? Right? And so a lot of times we start catering to the health of our gut, we can see this like, you know, cascade of events. Otherwise, I mean, mental health, skin health or mental health. I mean, it's crazy, just by pooping better. Like

Scott Benner 1:18:11
no, I I am not in a position to disagree with that. I obviously I don't I don't know the I don't know the ins and outs, but there's so many weird euphemisms. I don't I don't know the the science behind it. Obviously, I don't have any specific knowledge of it. But I can just say that, anecdotally, it's been really valuable for the people in my house. So an art is art and skin did clear up sick, not completely, but significantly. She's now she's that she's now back to the the skin irritation on her face that you would expect from a person her age, instead of what it was prior, which was pretty significant. Yeah. And she also added I don't know if you've ever heard of this, of asset Hall? It's a It's, um, see how the company describes it?

Terese Martinez 1:19:05
Oh, is this inositol? Like a

Scott Benner 1:19:09
ova? Is it oh, it

Terese Martinez 1:19:11
looks like a brand of inositol. And that style is like supposed to be extremely helpful for folks. Yes, yeah. Kind of rate. Like, I know a lot of folks that have PCOS taken off at all, but otherwise just regulation where if you don't mind sharing why she is taking in and if it's helping that

Scott Benner 1:19:32
yeah, because she was getting her period all the time. And a monthly nosebleed and was you know, low on iron because of how much she was bleeding and you know, couldn't stomach certain foods from like hormonal stuff and she started taking it and it really it's amazing how it helped like she she straightened out her stomach and added this to her life at the same time.

Terese Martinez 1:19:58
Oh my gosh, I just makes me feel so good for her like because yeah, that's both of those

Scott Benner 1:20:06
tortured before. Yeah. Especially for a couple of years. Oh, gosh. Oh, yeah. That's how long it took me to figure this out, by the way. Oh, because because, and you know this because you're of type one, but because so many symptoms mimic other things that can be autoimmune. So you just chase all these things down different pathways, and you're like, Okay, it's not that it's not this. It's not that it's not this, he gets to the end. And finally, the doctor that was helping us was just like this, this part could just be hormonal, maybe. And we'd still we tried birth control pills, which didn't help anything. It stopped. It regulated the bleeding, and it stopped the nosebleed. But she but Artem was like I don't want to do this, like I don't want to take birth control pills. And like they made her feel other ways that she didn't enjoy. And she's, you know, it was the fastest haul, which you're right. It's a brand name for something. It's an all in. And that's a tall supplement. Just really stunning how well it helped her. And then she came home for a break from school and got off her schedule and stopped taking it. And things got wonky again. Then Then she went back on it now she's been building it back up again. And she's starting to feel better and better as time passes again. So wow, really fascinating. I'm dying to know why the nosebleed?

Terese Martinez 1:21:26
Yeah, that is super cute. Did you have any input from practitioners the like, had theories around it or

Scott Benner 1:21:32
No, nobody's really, but it's very on a schedule. Like when it happened. It happened once a month almost to the day. But wasn't that but wasn't around her period. There's part of me that wants to like, I don't know, like one day we'll have somebody look up her nose and see because she'll still get one every now and again. But it's not like it used to be.

Terese Martinez 1:21:55
Does she get a headache when that happens? Or is it just kind of like a random

Scott Benner 1:21:58
just a nose to nose word nose where it comes out of nowhere? It stops and it's over. But it's a fair amount of blood. And oh, yeah,

Terese Martinez 1:22:09
I wonder Does she tracker like, like ovulation set like her just other things. But there's I'm just wondering if there's a fluctuation particularly with her hormone levels at that time?

Scott Benner 1:22:18
Yeah. I mean, I, she we used to, we used to have a period tracker when we were trying to figure it out that we were using, I'm sure I'm certain like, just anecdotally again, I'm certain that's what it is. I was paying attention to it for years. Like, you know, like Sherlock Holmes. And so but yeah, I don't know. It gets faster. If you told me there was a if you told me that Arden had a what is it was PCOS when there's like parts of your lady parts get outside of your lady parts? Right. And this is what I'm thinking. If you told me that there was those cells and Arden's nose, I would have believed you by what was happening. Yeah, yeah, sure. I don't know if that's possible. But I would have believed you. It was that cyclical. It was.

Terese Martinez 1:23:05
Wow. Hi. I'm like, does she does she get them now? Or no, not something and also tall or the loss at

Scott Benner 1:23:13
all. She got one while she was home, but she stopped taking the basketball. And then we sent her back and I haven't heard she's been taking it daily again, and I haven't heard about a nosebleed since then. So I think it's got some it's hormonal for sure. Yeah.

Terese Martinez 1:23:30
Um, did you look up like endometrial endometriosis in the nose?

Scott Benner 1:23:40
Just now when I said it out loud for the first time that I just did to the nasal nasal

Terese Martinez 1:23:47
nasal mucosa is an exceptional localization for endometriosis. This is a PubMed article. Is that the one that you saw pop? Yeah, we report a case observed in a woman who developed nasal tumefaction associated with epistatic epistaxis. That had followed a cyclic repetitive pattern since puberty, surgical excision of the nasal nodule confirm the diagnosis of endometriosis.

Scott Benner 1:24:14
All right, well, that's what we'll do it often comes home for summertime. That'll be exciting for

Terese Martinez 1:24:18
has she gotten any scans otherwise, like just in terms of cysts or endometriosis? Like, down, she lower,

Scott Benner 1:24:28
she had a cyst by her fallopian tube that she had removed once. She had pain that we couldn't impact and the doctor removed it called it called it a pocket of fluid. You know, technically speaking and Arden had to take it out and for a while she felt better. So yeah, I don't know. But Ardens looked into it. She came to me one time she's like there's a doctor in I think Georgia she told me that does endometriosis removal as a surgery. They It said it's very like, obviously, like, specific work that they do. But she's been very good lately. So, but yeah, I'll tell you what the nose thing though. It's so it's so worth going to an ears eyes, nose and throat doctor saying that to them and letting them look at her nose. Yeah, just makes sense. You know? Alright, that'll be, we'll do that. But that's on the list.

Terese Martinez 1:25:24
Yeah. Curious now that's I've never heard of that. So that was interesting. For me.

Scott Benner 1:25:29
I actually made myself a note. So, yeah. So is there anything we didn't talk about that you wanted to?

Terese Martinez 1:25:37
Oh, gosh, I mean, I just feel like I can talk on this topic all day. Um, but

Scott Benner 1:25:43
what do people do? What do they need to do for themselves? Or, in general, if you're having trouble eliminating or you're bloated? Or you just don't feel like that process works? Well, and you like, what do you do?

Terese Martinez 1:25:58
Due to the, like, unique nature of our bodies. Like, I just find that having someone that knows what they're talking about help you and take a look at, you can be really beneficial just because of the chaos that is the internet. Otherwise, that people feel like they really want to trial things on their own. It's just, I see this all the time, when people are trying like different diets, or they come they come to me, and they're like, I tried everything, and I you know, like I'm having issues with X, Y, and Z. And it's like, they'll it won't be very methodical implementation of whatever they're doing, right, they'll throw they'll start taking 17 different supplements at once, and it's like, and not really have any idea what's working, what's not, they will, you know, not really follow a way of eating very well, for a period of time to know if that's working. And so it's just really helpful to get the guidance of the steps to have what to what can be helpful to each I would say, like very basically, they're, you know, looking at your food intake and kind of seeing what you're like, feeding the bacteria. So you know, if you're, if you're consuming like a lot of sugar, a lot of carbohydrates, and this is not to like poopoo on either I eat both, I you feed certain bacteria, right? When you feed the bacteria that like the sugar, you know, for example, those bacteria start to flourish. When you have flourishing bacteria, they communicate with your brain to eat more sugar. So literally, it's not you that's like craving the sugar. When you are wanting it, though, again, there's variables to this and simplifying it but but you want to consider how you are nourishing the these bacteria, the good beneficial bacteria thrive off of what are called poly phenols, like plant nutrients and good and various fibers. So what I recommend for folks is trying to diversify the amount of plant foods that they're consuming. And with that said, not everyone can handle all the plant foods based off of the healthier gut like I mentioned with SIBO small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, sometimes the person cannot just like ramp up their fiber intake and their you know, their greens and their their fruits and veggies because they're, they can't tolerate it. But if you can diversify a little bit, you can then start feeding more diverse population of bacteria in your gut and that tends to be really beneficial overall for your health. Also watching things that aggravate the gut, right So ironically not ironic alcohol you know, it's definitely one that wreaks havoc in the gut, certain processed foods and you know, sugar sometimes more or not more, more often than not, I just like to think about what to incorporate in I really don't like to focus on what to eliminate and generally a diversity of plant foods and good healthy like, you know, well sourced animal products if you have the means to get good quality, it's it's great things like bone broth. I know that's kind of a little bit of a I don't know if that's the appropriate term right now but that bone broth of good quality bone broth where it's got that like gelatinous ation is really good for the lining of your gut, like L glutamine, glycine. They're like these are like very helpful nutrients and working on just kind of, you know, inflammation in general. Oh, herbs. Fresh herbs are rotten and like, roots like turmeric and Ginger and Garlic, those tend to be amazing. And they're one of the ways I like to focus on improving gut health because you can flavor up food that you're consuming with a really yummy, like herbs and spices. And there, that alone would be really helpful for your guts, you know, not necessarily changing a ton of the food you're consuming, but utilizing different, like herbs and spices are another really great way to help the bacteria.

Scott Benner 1:30:32
Wow, that's fascinating. Thank you so much. I and you have that all in your head? Which is really you'll be good at the podcasting thing.

Terese Martinez 1:30:40
Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I love I mean, there's just again, so much more to talk about there's, and there's always, always want to talk about with relationship to food, as well, you know, I think that that's, I kind of like to, to help people give themselves some grace when it comes to shifting their food intake just because like, food is so much more than eat. That's not that, right. It's a habitual, cultural, emotional, psychological, physiological, like, there are so many reasons why you eat what you do when you do. And it's important for people to recognize that when they are trying to shift their dietary patterns, because otherwise, you feel like you just fail on white knuckling your way through this. And it is not easy to change what you eat, like you have myelinated pathways that that control a lot of your thought patterns and desires and cravings. And in addition to how your body is set up from child from birth, you actually set up your gut microbiome from birth. And so in any case, not just got related, but it's like, again, very come complex. And so I think it's really helpful for people to know that and recognize it, because it takes time to untangle, you know, diet culture crap that we're fed, it takes time to really learn how to eat within your means and ability and like and also figure out what works best for you. And stay consistent with it. And consistency is definitely key. But I really like to reiterate that because people get frustrated pretty quick. And it's it's tough. I mean, I study this, I've been like, learning about this for like, you know, the past 10 years and plus, but like more professionally in the past like 510 and I still have loads of work to do with my own self and it is like on the forefront of my mind all day every day. So it can take a while.

Scott Benner 1:32:52
Well I'm going to try drinking bone broth for a month to see if I feel differently is that a good goodly amount of time? Or should I go longer?

Terese Martinez 1:33:01
A month would be great like are you going to do I would say like, like how weekly how frequently I'm

Scott Benner 1:33:07
reading that I can drink up to a cup of day is that right?

Terese Martinez 1:33:11
Yeah, yeah, I don't think that you I mean it'd be interesting to trial it I would say you're probably good to go just have a few times a week but you can like I mean get after it if you want

Scott Benner 1:33:22
what it doesn't matter if it's chicken or beef

Terese Martinez 1:33:25
you know I would do both I personally find beef to be a little bit more nutrient dense but but also what are you what brand are you looking at a brand are you going to make it

Scott Benner 1:33:35
I'm not going to make it because I don't have a cow here that I feel like I want to murder I actually don't have a cow at all. But I but um I'm assuming I could also buy like bones at the grocery that's not the point. I'll probably buy it. So do I buy it like liquid reconstituted like what is there any way Yeah,

Terese Martinez 1:33:58
so there's like I don't I don't know if I want to throw brands out here that's appropriate but there are certain brands I can like let you know after something that are more reputable again, okay, so yeah, so like like kettle and fire tends to be a really good brand for bone broth. Epic those they also kind of have different flavors as well that I think are pretty palatable a lot of times people don't like to just keep bone broth up and sip it I kind of do but but you can include it in a lot of times I'll put it in like soups where I'm maybe it's like a veggie like a more plant based soup but I had in bone broth to ramp up the protein and other nutrients but yeah kettle on fire epic. I'm gonna say is it bonafide? Potentially

Scott Benner 1:34:46
I must have called when they named that one they must have been like oh my god this is available. Go Yeah.

Terese Martinez 1:34:53
I am I highly recommend for anyone else listening that has like I purchased like a grass that half of the grass fed cow every year. So I get a lot of bones and like the liver and all the goodies and stuff, and I just actually made a batch and the instapot you run it through a couple cycles with a bunch of different like herbs and things in it like it makes it. I mean, it looks like jello, there's like an oddly satisfying thing for me to like see that? Because I just know the nutrients that that means it has. But it really is. It can be much more affordable to make it your own self because like you'll I don't know if you see the cost of these things, but if you want to have it every day a cup every day, a lot of those are like eight bucks a pop. Yeah, so that's why I kind of was saying you don't have to do it every day. But again, it's you are your own and one experiment here, Scott. So

Scott Benner 1:35:48
yeah, well, I have nothing but time my children have abandoned me my son got a job out of state. My daughter's to college. There's nothing lasts, I can do whatever I want no

Terese Martinez 1:35:56
7070 hours a week podcast.

Scott Benner 1:35:59
Well, yes, I have very little time. But in the time I'm going to try Brumbaugh. Let's see what? That's okay. Yeah. Cool. What do you imagine that if I saw a benefit from it, what do you think I would say?

Terese Martinez 1:36:11
Oh, good question. I would say if you would kind of is there anything that you can pinpoint that screams inflammation to you with your body? Yeah, like the whole thing?

Scott Benner 1:36:23
Yeah, yeah. Okay, how about I don't eat very much food. I'm the fattest person who doesn't eat you'll ever meet in your life. Okay, yeah. and joint pain, like, just creep creepiness, not like, not like Ra, but like creaky joint pain, muscle tightness, like I'll like have, like, I'll get pulled muscles, but I won't really pull anything. What else stiffness in my bad, my lower back stiffness that goes away if I'm on a steroid,

Terese Martinez 1:36:54
okay, these are all actually really good. So I would, what you can do is just really take notes of how like, maybe even write it down, like on a scale from one to 10 how creaky you are today, and then you know, like, read it, and then, you know, start consuming the bone broth, and maybe write it like every week. So you can kind of see if there's, like progress in that regard, I would say, the, the joints for sure would be something, any kind of indigestion a person might have also, just because of you know, the nature of it kind of helping with that. And then even things like like sleep quality, could be something you rate, I don't know how you sleep,

Scott Benner 1:37:40
like a rock, but thank you,

Terese Martinez 1:37:43
then that can be sometimes for folks, you know, a lot of times they have their written in electrolytes, too. So having magnesium can and a good like potassium, salt, magnesium, like, those can also help facilitate better recovery if a person were to like, work out and have bone broth that can and then additionally, with the protein and the amino acid profile, like there that can help with soreness and achiness. And recovery from workouts or just recovery from life and things. But so those those would be areas that you can look at.

Scott Benner 1:38:22
And oh, I know, I know, you can buy half a cow somewhere. So

Terese Martinez 1:38:27
oh, gosh, yeah, that's I recommend doing that. I mean, I got this averaged out to be, like, 370 a pound and I got like, 225 And I mean, that's really good compared to what beef looks like in the stores these days. And, and the quality is just like, it's just, it's wonderful.

Scott Benner 1:38:47
Gotcha. All right. Well, I'm gonna go by I'm not gonna go buy a cow, but I am. I am going to try the bone broth. I do appreciate you doing this very much. I can't I can't thank you enough. Actually, we used up so much time. You can't even practice being a podcaster on me. We're out of time for you to ask me questions. Oh, shoot. Okay. Do you have one? Did you come up with one or no?

Terese Martinez 1:39:07
I honestly, no. I mean, I have a ton I'm sure I was when I was too busy talking to brainstorm.

Scott Benner 1:39:18
I'm just teasing you. If you asked me a question, I would just talk forever and that would not be fun for anybody. I love talking so

Terese Martinez 1:39:25
I kind of like a little bit in the beginning maybe for like asking about about the podcast and stuff was like a little mini interview.

Scott Benner 1:39:32
I would just tell you, it's difficult and time consuming and doesn't pay you back immediately. So if you can, if you can tough it out, and and break through to another level and people resonate with what you're what you're talking about and share it with others you'll have a great time and it will like it will be very fulfilling even that way not to say by the way, not to say that you can't make a podcast that 100 People hear a week and that that's not a great thing. It's absolutely terrific thing. I just I got caught in the place where I saw value. I wanted to help more people, the only way I could help more people was to get more downloads. And so you get brought into that, that thing where it takes a lot of time. And then Time is money. And if you you know if I need a job, right, like, you know, so how do you make money? Do something good for somebody and maintain the value? It has that? But I'll tell you what, man that's a that's a tight rope. So yeah, totally. I feel like I've done it. But every once in a while someone online lets me know that they don't think I have so to them. I say I'm trying very hard and I'm doing my best if you don't like it, start your own podcast. Exactly. Alright, hold on one second for me. Okay. Okay, thanks.

A huge thanks to Therese for coming on and having that great conversation. And I want to thank Dexcom for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast dexcom.com forward slash juice box, go get yourself a G seven, or G six right now with my link dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, go find the private Facebook group. It's free and it has just about 41,000 members in it now Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook, but I don't care what kind of diabetes you have. If you have diabetes, or you love somebody with diabetes, type one type two, lot of gestational, I don't care. Come find the group. It's fantastic. When you support the Juicebox Podcast by clicking on the advertisers links, you are helping to keep the show free and plentiful. I am certainly not asking you to buy something that you don't want. But if you're going to buy something, or use a device from one of the advertisers, getting your purchases set up through my links is incredibly helpful. So if you have the desire or the need, please consider using Juicebox Podcast links to make your purchases