Scott Benner 12/3/24 Scott Benner 12/3/24

#1373 Caregiver Burnout Series: Part 4

Erika Forsyth provides strategies and encouragement for caregivers making career sacrifices to optimize T1D care.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
We are all together again, friends for this next episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

I'm back with Erica today in our fourth installment of the caregiver burnout series, today, we're going to be talking about making career sacrifices and choices to optimize care. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to work with Erica, you can find her at Erica forsyth.com, when you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juicebox. To save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com if you're newly diagnosed, check out the bold beginnings series. Find it at Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu in the feature tab of the private Facebook group, or go into the audio app you're listening in right now and search for Juicebox podcast, bold beginnings.

The episode you're listening to is sponsored by us Med, us, med.com/juice, box, or call 888-721-1515, 888-721-1514, you can get your diabetes testing supplies the same way we do from us med. This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries. G voke hypo pen. Find out more at gvoke, glucagon com forward slash, Juicebox Erica. This is the fourth episode in your caregiver burnout series. What an upbeat title that is yes, but very well put. And you know, I think needs to be talked about. What are we going to talk about today?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:13
Yes. So this is the fourth burden or theme that you know again, that came up from all of the research conducted over caregiver burden of parents to children with type one. And so this fourth theme, and we're discussing it through the burden or barrier to taking care of yourself or making choices you know for yourself is making career sacrifices and choices to optimize T 1d, care. Okay,

Scott Benner 2:41
do you think during this one, will we talk at all about the idea of people homeschooling when their kids are diagnosed? Because I see that come up a lot. Does that fit in this one?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:50
Yes, yes. Okay, good, absolutely. So like, like our other episodes, we have a quote that's taken from the research of a parent who is validating this theme. So do you want to read the quote? Oh, yeah,

Scott Benner 3:02
it's my turn. Now I rarely focus my energy on the company I work for. I just get off work as soon as I as possible. I used to leave early and return late to make money. Now I quit my job and found a new one that I can make a living while taking care of my child.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:18
Okay, okay, you could read this quote and think, Wow, is this parent becoming more balanced or, you know, we don't know, but oftentimes, from the research and from your stories, you know, we hear that because of this constant need to to monitor, to manage, the T, 1d that caregivers Do report experiencing some form of impact on their careers post diagnosis. So we're going to talk a little bit about

Scott Benner 3:45
this. Yeah, this happened to me. So, yeah, yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:48
So did you make the choice to stay at home? Well,

Scott Benner 3:52
I mean, we made two different choices, the first one, and I just recently shared this with Arden, and I realized, as I was telling her, I don't think she knew this, but I think we were going to have three kids before Arden got diabetes. That was kind of like in our plan. And diabetes definitely kicked our ass, and it stopped us from having a third child. But I was a stay at home dad. I began being a stay at home dad in 2000 Wow, that really dates me, and the plan was to raise the kids, get them into kindergarten and then go back to work. So Cole was going to kindergarten as Arden was born about like, we kind of did that on purpose. We that was kind of the one thing we did on purpose that Cole would be around for like, a year while Arden was, you know, a baby, and then he'd go to school when she started toddling was kind of the idea. Then, when we realized that we probably weren't going to have another baby, and Arden got older and older, I was supposed to go back to work, and then we couldn't figure out how to accomplish that, like, because we were really bad at diabetes. Like, not good at it at all. And keeping in mind that diabetes back then meant. Like, we had a vial of insulin needles and, like, a little meter, that was it, right? But we didn't have a lot of direction from doctors and things like that. I guess I should say, we kept saying I should go back to work, and we needed me to, like, you know, but then we couldn't figure out how to do that. And then before long, it turned into, well, Arden's going to school, but she'll be home at 12. And then it was, Arden's going to school, but she'll be home at three. And like, who's going to be here and who's going to take care of the diabetes? And before you knew it, I looked up and I hadn't had a job in 20 years, you know what I mean. And that was not, not nearly part of the plan. And I will say, had I not done all this, I think it would have been detrimental to me, because I don't know where I am. Now, you know what I mean, like, I can't get a real job, Eric, I'm a podcaster, like, like, but, you know, aside from that, like, I don't know what I would do. Like, I was a real part of the workforce at one point. You know, it felt like I gave the idea of something or the possibility of something away, to stick around and pay attention to diabetes. So I'm sure a lot of people end

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:05
up doing and did that feel like a sacrifice at the time? Yeah? Or did yeah? No,

Scott Benner 6:11
no, it definitely did. Because, like, I love being a stay at home parent. I was really I think I was good at it, and I got a lot of enrichment out of it for me personally, like I've talked before about the idea that, like, you know, when Cole was a year or two old, I realized that, like, there were these, like things that came up that my wife seemed to kind of just intrinsically know the answer to, or and I would struggle with them. And I thought, like, if I don't give myself over to this process, like, he's going to end up having a half of an experience, and she's going to have this experience taken from her, because she's not getting to do it, and he's not getting what he would have gotten from her. So I thought, I have to throw myself into this. And it's when I, very early on, stopped looking at raising Cole as a task and more of a calling, like I tried to do it like that, you know. So I loved it. But at the same time, your friends are making money you really haven't lived till you've bought your wife a Christmas present with her money that she ends up not liking, you know, like so you start having that feeling like, I'd like to contribute. I'd like to make my own way. I want to feel more valuable that way as well. So yeah, it felt like I gave some things away. And I have had reflective moments in my life where, I mean, I joked about it a second ago, but I'm like, I don't know where I fit in society if I try to jump back into it. And I probably don't like I probably on paper, I don't think I'm hireable. You know what? I mean? Like, I, the last time I held a job, it was, was 1999

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:46
you know? Yes, well, we're grateful you're here. You're doing a great job for us here. Well, lovely, but

Scott Benner 7:53
I'm barely a greeter at Walmart on paper, is what I'm saying. So, like, you know? And I, I just didn't want a job that, like, a retiree got, like, as a I didn't want to be like, 45 years old and going back into the world and not being able to, like, even get back to the level where I was right, right. But anyway, I tried very hard to let that go. If you take insulin or so faucinyas, you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low. You need a safety net when it matters most, be ready with jivo kypo pen. My daughter carries GEVO hypopin everywhere she goes, because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar in people with diabetes ages two and above that. I trust low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly, and they demand quick action. Luckily, jivo kypo pen can be administered in two simple steps, even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store jivo kypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use jivo kypo pen before an emergency situation happens. Learn more about why GEVO kypo Pen is in Arden's diabetes toolkit at gvoke, glucagon.com/juicebox, gvoke shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma, or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma, visit gvoke. Glucagon.com/risk, for safety information

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:23
that is a big I mean, you are living and breathing what? Again, this research has reflected in the research, again that's been gathered from 1995 to 2021 for many parents that this burden of care results in, as you just said, the decision to adjust their work hours or leave jobs or careers entirely. These are things. These are themes that I talk about with clients, and I've heard people share right on the podcast, maybe you decide not to pursue a higher career ambitions like going back to get your higher level degrees grad school, you know. P. PhDs because of the work demands of taking care of your child, you might have avoided or avoid desired job opportunities. Maybe you get there's an opportunity for a raise or a promotion that may involve more travel, and you you can't take it because of the need to take care of your child. A lot of people stay at certain jobs because of health insurance, right? Like we are really driven by that need. And if you at a job that maybe you're not as satisfied with, but they have great health care benefits, you maybe make that sacrifice, right, to stay there.

Scott Benner 10:39
That's gotta happen so much with diabetes, right? Like it has to where people, you know, like the difference between something covering 60% and something covering 80% on items that are this expensive is, you know, it's impactful. You know, yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:55
yes. And then, and then, even if you do decide to change jobs and go and you go through the whole rigmarole of changing insurances, insurance plans, and that is really complicated and challenging, right? Like you have to go through maybe prior authorization, etc, etc, you guys know, all the drills that experience, in and of itself might keep you at a job, even to say, I just, I can't go through this another insurance change for some of you may not have a nurse at school, so perhaps you have one of one of the if this is in a two parent household, whether or not you decide that one parent can no longer work or has to only have you know remote jobs, because who's going to run down to The School to change the pod or the device if there's no nurse, if you're at a private school or in public schools, you only have the nurse on Tuesdays. And for some of you might even decide, as are you saying to home school? Yeah,

Scott Benner 11:52
I hear a lot of people talk about just the fear of letting someone else make a medical decision one way or the other. There's people who don't trust the school nurse. Let it. They don't trust anybody like, you know, and I understand that, like, and I had this conversation recently with a person where they were saying, like, I don't, there's no one at my kid's school that I feel comfortable making, like, a dosing decision. And, you know, they can call me, that's great, but you still don't know what they're drawing up. You still don't know what they're twisting up with the pen or whatever's going on, dialing up on the pump, and I still don't feel comfortable. You know what I mean, like, so if the mom or the dad's like, I don't really feel like I know what I'm doing, I'm supposed to be telling them what they're like. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, how am I gonna give this at least when I'm there, it feels like I did it. It's me. I double checked it, you know, I don't know. It's just there's a lot of fear in there, and I lived through absolutely all that. I don't know how often I talk about it, but I thought it was important for Arden to go to preschool, so I took her to a half day preschool a couple of times a week. But you'd think, like, oh, there's your downtime. I just went out in the parking lot and sat in my car like, I was like, Oh, well, you go have this preschool experience, and I'll sit out here in case something goes wrong. And I don't think I went in maybe, like once in six months, but, you know, leaving was too far and, you know, it just felt ridiculous. Now, everybody can watch TV on their phones, but, man, I didn't have that, you know what? I mean, would have been awesome, but it just instead, I just sat there. I'll sit here for a few hours while she just in case. Yeah, and those are hours of my life that are like she's off being enriched, and I'm staring at the dashboard, you know? And then you've got to be able to do that without, without it feeling like a burden, or without it making you angry, or, you know, it's a word I'm looking for. I can't think of it resentful, yes, yeah, and

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:43
yes, so, and for some parents, this is, you know, it's just $1 and cents type of decision, right? Like, you have to stay at the certain job, but you need to keep it remote, or we can afford to only have one income coming in, so that, you know, but there's, there's emotion involved. And so when we talk about the tool, this is a really complicated one, because it might just be a dollars and cents issue, right? So that the tool with this is, is to notice the why, which we've been talking about, which, again, can be a challenge when you're burdened and in working full time or in trying to manage your child's type one, but underneath that, it's okay to like you just said. You don't want to be resentful. But let's say you've been in a career, and all of a sudden you get the job opportunity of a lifetime that you've been working towards, and you feel like you need to turn that down in order to be around for your child and to manage like there's grief there. Do

Scott Benner 14:46
you know how I became a stay at home dad? No daycare cost $100 more than I made a month. Oh, yes, okay, that's simple, like we went to the first of all, nobody. I mean, I don't want to say nobody. What? Did not want to. I'm going to make somebody upset, but I'm just going to tell you how I felt you can do whatever you want with it. I felt like we had a baby to put it in a kennel. That's what daycare felt like to me. I was like, what do we make it for if we're just going to go stick it in that building? Now, I had that feeling to begin with, but fair enough, that's what we were going to do. And then you shop around. Found a decent one where you felt like, oh, the kid might live through this, you know. Okay, it's close to your house. And then here's the bill with the month. And I remember going back to Kelly and saying, like, I make less than this cost. I'm like, I'm not on some fast track to be the CEO here. You know what I mean, like. So I said, Well, why don't I just stay home? Well, actually, the first thing I said to her is, why don't you stay home with him? And then she laughed at me for a while because she had, she had what they called opportunities, and I was maybe more working a job, you know, she actually very kindly said, like, I think you'd be great at this. Why don't you stay with him? And then I did. And then you realize, like, wow, like, we need the money, but it was going to be gone one way or the other. You know, like, it sucks to have to be put in that position, but diabetes puts you in that position, like, every day, to some degree or another, where you're just, like, it's always, like, you said $1 and cents, you know, decision you're making. So it's the whole, I mean, it just you're not ready for it. And by the way, just because it was a good financial decision doesn't mean you just wake up with, like, rainbows and unicorns flying through your head the next day. You're like, I just stopped working up until that moment, spent my entire life trying to get to the job I had. And I had some really terrible jobs, Erica, like, I worked my way through terrible jobs to get the, I don't know, the cleaner, at least I was indoors, you know? Like, and I was like, and I was like, okay, like, I've, I've worked my way up to this spot. If I leave, like, I fall back down to where I was. I hadn't ingrained myself in that place yet in the world, you know what I mean? Like, I couldn't just go trading off that again. Five years later, the world would have left me behind at that point. And then that all is in your head while you're doing this. So anyway, Jesus, this sucks. No wonder it's easy,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:06
well and yes, and I think as a parent, like it feels air quote, easy to make sacrifices for our children, right? Like we would say, Well, of course we would want to do what's best for our child, and perhaps saying no to that job opportunity, or saying no to a traveling job versus a remote job or an office job. Rather, that might feel easy in the moment, but there is more loss potentially there to your identity, to your social community network, to the way you feel like you're contributing to society and feeling those things doesn't mean that you're a bad parent or that you there is that resentment, maybe, is there sadness and grief around that it's a loss, right? So you're grieving the loss, you're grieving the diagnosis and the diabetes, and then there could be this kind of compound grief and loss around work, if you feel like you need to be making these decisions and sacrifices. Diabetes

Scott Benner 18:03
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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:07
that for the most part. I would say that's absolutely true for most families. It is rare that one and again, in a two parent household, if one parent can say, You know what, we're okay, I can, I can leave my career and and be the primary caregiver to our child with type one, but you are, I think you're also, conversely, let's say you can't, you don't have that luxury to make those kinds of decisions. And you do have to schlep into the office every day. And both of you do, yeah, and then you're trying to manage, and then you're trying to figure out, oh my gosh, we have to go in and help change the device. There's no nurse, you know that's there's so much you're

Scott Benner 20:43
lucky if you're in an office, because you could be at the bottom of a ditch, you know what I mean, or up a tree, or any number of horrible jobs that I had when I was growing up. Listen, I'll be clear about this. I was making $1,600 a month. Okay? I worked really hard to get to $1,600 a month, like, prior to, like, I don't know how many, how often people listen to this podcast, but like, coming out of high school, I didn't have any opportunities at all. I keep thinking of, oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? Why am I thinking of that movie? Because he uses some phrase about opportunity anyway. That's way off track. But, like, I came out of there, I'll figure that out later. Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:18
I haven't seen that in years. It's a good move. You should say it. I

Scott Benner 21:20
came out I came out. I was working at my uncle's sheet metal shop. I was making $5 an hour, five like, I worked a whole day of my life to make $40 and then the government took eight of it. I don't know why they felt like they needed my eight bucks, but they took it. I was going home with, like, 210, or 3060, 90, 120, 100, like, I mean, I maybe had, you know, God, it's so sad. I maybe had six, 700 bucks at the end of the month. Like, I worked a whole month for that money, right? So without college to get myself up to 1600 I was like, that was hard, and it took years, like, literal years, and then that money comes off the books. I guess this is where I should point out. I don't we didn't exactly make coal on purpose. He knows this, so it's not a big deal. We were still in the, you know, trying to get their phase, and then all of a sudden, we lost 17 or $1,600 a month. We were gonna lose 17 if we went to daycare. We lost $1,600 a month in income. And then there were costs. Do you remember the first time you bought diapers and you were like, Wait, how much are these? Yes, you know. And then forget diapers, insulin pumps, CGM, doctor's visits, blood tests over patches. Like, you know, I don't know everything all the like, think of that drawer in your house. What's in there? You know what I mean? Oh, geez. Again, Erica, yeah, all you do is bum me out. Go ahead.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:46
So what we're again? Yes, I hear that, and we're wanting the hope is right to to validate your experience, that this is something that is, you know, in the research that you guys are experiencing, and it's hard, but in this space of, you know, in this burden, it's okay to to validate the grief and loss around whatever that may be, whether it's feeling like you you have to stay in the workforce or you have to leave it wherever that rub is right, the tension, it's okay to to grieve that it doesn't make you a bad parent. So

Scott Benner 23:21
that's where the tools lie for this to get yourself around that are is, I mean, you have it put here so nicely, I don't I feel like if I'm going to say it, I'm going to mess it up. Go over them again for me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:31
Okay, so, so in the in noticing the why, you know, wanting to encourage you to think about the burden that you're experiencing in in the career, in the insurance space, if you are feeling angry, resentful around some of these sacrifices, that that feels that that's normal, and there might be grief in that right in that space, you know, it's, it is. It's connected to the diabetes, but it's also separate, because you're feeling like you have to choose and to lose something that may be really important to you, and then, and secondly, to notice your thoughts and feelings around the decision when you do make it, if it's not just a dollars and cents decision, are you leaving a job because you feel like, is there shame driving that right? Like, Oh, I'm going to be a terrible parent if I choose to stay in the workforce, because I really find belonging and identity and satisfaction, and I'm really good at this thing that I do, but if I stay, am I going to feel, am I going to shame myself that I'm not a good enough caregiver to my child? So I probably should just quit and do this right? Like this is beyond all of the dollars and cents things that we're talking about,

Scott Benner 24:43
right? Well, the resent me too. I mean, listen, you can't have resentment because it's such a horrible thing, because it's you could feel resentful, but if you model the resentment, then you resent the diabetes and the choice it made you make, and the kid's going to have a. Time separating themselves from the diabetes, so it's going to feel like you resent them. And they could, yeah. I mean, it could. It might not, but it could, yes. And I think we all know somebody who, you know, had something happen in their life out of step with a plan, and it revolves around the arrival of a child. And you know, if you've been alive long enough, you get to look up in 20 years and see that that does not make for a great relationship so, and then it hurts people on both sides of that problem, to the kid and the and the parent. So I don't know. I mean, it's a lot of pressure here, but it very important, like it's a very important thing to notice, use your tools, get through it and hopefully just move on, because it in the end. Like, I hate to say this, but, like, it usually works out okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, everybody's financial situation is different, obviously, but, but people usually find a way to, like, exist that they're at the level that they're earning at. Like, hopefully, you know, yeah, I know sometimes you're just at a level where you can't get ahead no matter what you do. But I don't know. It's hard to talk about money. It

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 26:07
is, it is this, and this is a hard burden to discuss, because there are no really easy tools to be like, well, just, just go find a good job that you can stay at home and do all the things, right? So just the I think it's important to validate, because this is a significant part of the caregiver burden that isn't always emphasized, but is there something that part of the mental load, part of the things that you're carrying as a caregiver? And so I think it's important for us to highlight and validate and to encourage you to if you are able to have the luxury of time and space to think about your feelings around it and honor and offer the self compassion and

Scott Benner 26:45
no shame if you have to sell pictures of your feet online, I wish I had prettier feet. I would do it.

Unknown Speaker 26:51
I mean, you gotta

Scott Benner 26:53
do what you gotta do. I don't, you know. I mean, listen, there are other ways to get by, you know. And I think the important thing too is it doesn't need to be forever. It feels like it and but if I try to look back on my life, like, is there a moment where I could have just said, Okay, fine, she'll be okay if she comes home and I'm not here, yeah, and the answer is yes, but at that point, I was doing this, so I didn't have to go looking outside of the home, but I could have, like, at some point, like she knew what she was doing. We had a routine. There were, you know, like we had safety measures set up in different places. I could have gone to work. It wouldn't have been terrible. Would I have had to have left sometimes, maybe to help with something at school once or twice, probably. But also, there's an argument to be made that they would have just found a different way to do it if I couldn't be there, you know. So I don't know, make your

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:45
choices. Yeah, and things are seasonal. That's important point. Ooh, that was

Scott Benner 27:50
lovely. The way you said that, yes, things are seasonal. Is that a thing you say to people? Things are seasonal?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:56
I don't know. Maybe I should, though, yeah, I

Scott Benner 27:58
would definitely say that if I was you also, I think if your second toe is longer than your big toe, then you're not good for pictures. I think that's the is that what the research says? I know, if we're calling it research or not, Erica, but that's what I've heard, okay, from the kids. I appreciate you doing this with me. Thank

Unknown Speaker 28:16
you. You're welcome. You

Scott Benner 28:25
a huge thanks to us med for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox podcast. Don't forget us med.com/juice, box. This is where we get our diabetes supplies from. You can as well use the link or call 888-721-1514, use the link or call the number. Get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from us. Med, a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, gevok, glucagon. Find out more about G vo hypo pen at G VOQ, glucagon.com, forward slash, Juicebox. You spell that, G, V, O, k, e, g, l, U, C, A, G, o, n.com, forward slash juice box. I want to thank you so much for listening and remind you please subscribe and follow to the podcast wherever you're listening right now, if it's YouTube, Apple podcast, Spotify, or any other audio app, go hit follow or subscribe, whichever your app allows for, and set up those downloads so you never miss an episode, especially in Apple podcasts, go into your settings and choose, download all new episodes. Are you starting to see patterns, but you can't quite make sense of them. You're like, Oh, if I Bolus here, this happens, but I don't know what to do. Should I put in a little less? A little more? If you're starting to have those thoughts, you're starting to think this isn't going the way the doctor said it would. I think I see something here, but I can't be sure. Once you're having those thoughts, you're ready for the diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox podcast. It begins at. At Episode 1000 you can also find it at Juicebox podcast.com up in the menu, and you can find a list in the private Facebook group. Just check right under the featured tab at the top, it'll show you lists of a ton of stuff, including the Pro Tip series, which runs from episode 1000 to 1025 Hey, what's up, everybody? If you've noticed that the podcast sounds better, and you're thinking like, how does that happen? What you're hearing is Rob at wrong way, recording doing his magic to these files. So if you want him to do his magic to you, wrong way. Recording.com, you got a podcast. You want somebody to edit it. You want rob you.

#1372 I Don't Understand... Arden Seven

Who is this Bridgit Mendler?

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

COMING SOON

#1371 After Dark: More Cate

Cate has an anti-social personality disorder that significantly impacts her ability to empathize, form meaningful relationships, and consider the consequences of her actions.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Scott Benner 0:00
Welcome back, friends, to another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'm going to be speaking with Kate. She's a returning guest. She was initially in Episode 716 called after dark Kate. Kate is here today to talk about her anti social personality disorder, and I want you to be aware that there's going to be some discussion about abortion. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin, don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code Juicebox at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com when you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. AG, one.com/juice, box. Don't forget, if you're a US resident who has type one, or is the caregiver of someone with type one, visit T 1d exchange.org/juice box right now and complete that survey. It will take you 10 minutes to complete the survey, and that effort alone will help to move type one diabetes research forward. It will cost you nothing to help. Today's podcast is sponsored by us med. US med.com/juicebox you can get your diabetes supplies from the same place that we do. And I'm talking about Dexcom, libre, Omnipod, tandem and so much more us. Med.com/juice, box, or call 888-721-1514, this show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries, G VO, hypo pen. Find out more at G VO, glucagon.com. Forward slash juice box.

Cate 2:05
So I am Kate. I still don't know how long I've been a diabetic for. I am from Canada, but in regards to what we're going to be talking about, it's we're going to be talking about it from the UK, because I was living in the UK at the time.

Scott Benner 2:22
Okay, UK. So Kate, you've done a thing. I'm going to be embarrassed here. I'm just going to go out. Just let me be embarrassed. Okay, of course, you have said once before we were recording, and now when we are recording, I still don't remember how long I've had type one diabetes, which before. Don't worry, you don't remember, which says to me, yeah, you and I have done this already. Yes, and your name, your name, is incredibly familiar to me. But, you know, a couple 1000 of these conversations, and everything gets blurred together a little bit, of course. So tell me, do you know what episode you were on the first time?

Cate 2:58
I have no idea the number. It was going to be an after dark episode. I'm not good with numbers. My memory is shite. So it's, I'm not, I have no idea you

Scott Benner 3:09
remember what the title was, Kate,

Cate 3:13
genuinely. It was actually just called that. It was like episode, whatever number, and then Kate, and that was it.

Scott Benner 3:19
How embarrassing for me. Hold on a second. Oh, 716 There you go, Kate, let me tell you. What else I know if I called your after dark. Kate, then I listened to it and thought there's no proper way to describe what happened here.

Cate 3:39
It was like a smorgasbord of, like a conversation, like, I think we talked about, we talked about, like, a whole bunch of stuff, yeah, like we talked mostly it was just about, like growing up and being into like drugs and and sex and being through like therapy and like surbicide attempts and all of that jazz.

Scott Benner 4:05
Cate has type one diabetes, and this conversation includes everything you've come to expect from an after dark episode. That's what it that's what it says. So anyway, okay, great. I feel like you're here for like, a targeted reason. So what made you reach back out?

Cate 4:21
So this one, it's generally, I know you're, you're always looking for kind of taboo subjects that I don't really ever find taboo. I think, am I

Scott Benner 4:34
always looking for them, or is that just the only ways i Well,

Cate 4:36
no, I feel like that's probably the only things that I pay attention to. Like, Oh, taboo. Hey, I can fit that mold. I was

Scott Benner 4:43
gonna say, because I have a I have a lovely four part series on resilience with a therapist and and, of course, just scads and scads of diabetes management, content and everything. I feel like, perhaps the only stories you have are these

Cate 4:56
are taboo. Absolutely, they're all. May be interesting ones. I feel like everything else is boring. Can be interesting, not boring. It can be interesting, but yeah, I just find, I find that the more that we talk about taboo, the less taboo they become. Of course, because I find life like, what's taboo to me may not be taboo to you, if that makes sense. And so I think it's this like social construct that we've put on and so I like to talk about them a to make people feel uncomfortable. Because I think you really start to kind of know somebody when they're uncomfortable, and that gives me great pleasure. It kind of defeats that, that whole you know, thing of beating down the taboo construct. I don't, I don't like it. I think it's silly.

Scott Benner 5:45
I would have already sung the shot a song, except I believe you're gonna say something very serious next. So I didn't. I didn't want to be like, sweet is taboo. And then you're all like, Have you guys ever eaten human meat, like, I wasn't sure where you're gonna go, so, yeah, yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker 6:05
I don't, yeah, I suppose I could be taboo.

Scott Benner 6:08
I mean, I would hope so, yeah. Hey, let me say this, if you're out there right now and you think eating human meat is not taboo, walk yourself into a police station. Just sleep and turn yourself over to the authorities, please, like, that's from for me to all of you again, if you've eaten human meat, please go directly to the police station and turn yourself in.

Unknown Speaker 6:28
Yeah, please. And thank you. Oh

Scott Benner 6:30
my god. And I have to say this too, if anyone out there has eaten human meat, and you're a great fan of the podcast, and you're really downloading everything, not you, okay, but yeah, but everyone, and also, let me go a little farther, don't eat someone who's also a fan of the podcast, because, you know, I need the downloads and everything. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Cate 6:50
And spread the word, you know, to all of your cannibal friends, if they're going to download and listen like that would be great. See,

Scott Benner 6:56
Kate makes a great point here. If you're to a cannibal party of some sort, I would appreciate if you'd maybe like, whip out your podcast players, show people how to subscribe. My God, all right. Well, this took an odd turn. I

Unknown Speaker 7:09
already lose listeners.

Scott Benner 7:13
So when I thought of the most taboo thing I could think of that was it, that's what came in mind. Yeah, that should tell you something. Well, it should tell you something that most of the things other people think are taboo, my brain just skip right over those things. Like, absolutely no. I was like, that's fine. No

Speaker 1 7:28
one's worried about that. Amazing. Yeah, all right, so what show on that subject?

Scott Benner 7:33
On a serious note, watch this take a left turn from hell. What? What are you on?

Cate 7:38
We're going so we're going to talk about abortion. Oh, Christ. Really, I know, I know, which is, like, in a lot of people's minds, is kind of up there with cannibalism. So, I mean, you know, almost like for like, but probably not quite,

Scott Benner 7:53
Oh, Jesus. Like, I really got to start reading the notes before I start. There's no

Unknown Speaker 7:58
fun in that. Scott, come on. Oh, my God, okay,

Scott Benner 8:02
I honestly had no idea that's what we were doing.

Unknown Speaker 8:04
I just that's fine.

Scott Benner 8:05
Okay, all right. Well, here we go.

Speaker 1 8:07
Here we go. I don't and to be fair, I was thinking about it

Cate 8:15
yesterday, maybe, probably because I forget things, and I had about 5 million reminders that I was doing this today, but I came to the realization that I don't think I've ever really spoke about it from like, start to finish either. Like, I was like, I obviously, I've been like, hey, partner. Like, who's my husband? Now? Like, I've obviously talked about it with him, and I've talked about it with my mom and my best friend, but it wasn't from like start to finish, if that makes sense, yeah. So this is gonna be really weird. This is gonna be strange for me. Yeah, let's

Scott Benner 8:47
do it. Okay, you're up for this. Listen, hold on real quick. I'm putting my feet up. I'm putting my feet up and let me change the mic configuration here. Guys are gonna hear a lot of noise. My desk is rattling around. All right, I need to, all right, I'm settled. This is okay. I can do this. I've done listen. I would like to be serious, obviously, and it sounds like we're gonna be very serious moving forward. But I have had conversations on this podcast. If you take insulin or so faucinyas, you are at risk for your blood sugar going too low, you need a safety net when it matters most, be ready with G, VO hypo pen. My daughter carries GE, voc hypo pen everywhere she goes, because it's a ready to use rescue pen for treating very low blood sugar in people with diabetes ages two and above that. I trust low blood sugar emergencies can happen unexpectedly, and they demand quick action. Luckily, jivo kypo pen can be administered in two simple steps, even by yourself in certain situations. Show those around you where you store jivo kypo pen and how to use it. They need to know how to use jivo kypo pen before. Situation happens. Learn more about why G vo kypo Pen is in Arden's diabetes toolkit at gvoke, glucagon.com/juicebox, gvoke shouldn't be used if you have a tumor in the gland on the top of your kidneys called a pheochromocytoma, or if you have a tumor in your pancreas called an insulinoma, visit gvoke, glucagon.com/risk. For safety information. I have always disliked ordering diabetes supplies. I'm guessing you have as well. It hasn't been a problem for us for the last few years, though, because we began using us Med, you can too us med.com/juice, box, or call 888-721-1514, to get your free benefits. Check us med has served over 1 million people living with diabetes since 1996 they carry everything you need, from CGM to insulin pumps and diabetes testing supplies and more. I'm talking about all the good ones, all your favorites, libre three, Dexcom, g7 and pump psych, Omnipod five, Omnipod dash, tandem, and most recently, the I let pump from beta bionics, the stuff you're looking for, they have it at us. Med, 88887211514, or go to us. Med.com/juicebox, to get started now, use my link to support the podcast that's us med.com/juice box, or call 888-721-1514, conversations on this podcast that in my wildest dreams I would never have expected to have had. And you know, I I will tell you that. I mean, I guess right now, trigger warning. Probably a lot of things are going to get said in this podcast that you know might be triggers. But here, here's the first one from me. I once received an email from a young woman, not I forget if she was maybe in her mid to late 20s by the time I spoke to her, sent me this passionate email that she wanted to come on the podcast and tell the story of her sexual assault in college and how it impacted her diabetes. And I stared at that email for a long time, yeah. And I was like, I don't what am I? How am I going to facilitate that conversation? You know, like, and why here? Why me? Like I did. I was just trying to make a podcast. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't think all this was gonna happen. I spoke to my wife about it a number of times, and then one day I responded back to the person. I said, you know, if this is a story you want to tell, like, I'd be happy and proud to help you get it out in the world. And she came on, and at the end of it, I don't know if I said it on the recording or when it was over, I was like, Was that okay? Like, did I do? Okay? Like, I didn't know what I was doing. So everyone get ready for me not to know what I'm doing again. Also, I'm just gonna put this out there. Now, my personal stance on this, I don't know if it's gonna come through or come out, but I think it's gonna be surprising to some of you. Anyway, okay, go ahead. I mean, listen, Can I be honest? I don't know that we need to start all the way at the beginning. Okay. Also, I'm gonna have to stop myself from making stupid jokes like that one. But let's go ahead and go. You. Go ahead.

Cate 13:12
What do you it's fine, because I feel like I don't know, like there are things that happen that absolutely can laugh about now and then. There's still things that are, I still see as, like, traumatic, if you will, yeah, but I feel like it's, it's always easier to kind of get over, not over things, because I don't think you actually ever get over something, right? I think you just kind of learn how to let it be in your life, you know what I mean? So, but it's always easier to do that when you can, like, smile about it. So I genuinely do not care if we make completely inappropriate jokes, like, I don't care. I will absolutely, I don't

Scott Benner 13:53
feel like I'm doing that, yeah, but I'm gonna say this, that I'm gonna ask my first question, right? So everyone listening respect the fact that anyone else making a podcast would have edited the first 10 minutes of this out and just started with, Kate, you're on for a very after school reason, after school, special sadness reason today. And I would have I seriously, most people I know would be like, Oh, I didn't realize that's what we were talking about. I'm getting rid of that part. But not me. I'm gonna leave it in. So, yeah, yeah. Let's just start like by refreshing people on who you are. How old were you when you were diagnosed? I

Cate 14:26
was 11, turning 12 that year. How

Scott Benner 14:30
old are you now?

Speaker 1 14:31
I am. I'm gonna be 39 next month, almost in a month, absolutely.

Scott Benner 14:37
Let me do this with you. Take the nine and subtract one. You come up with an eight. You take the three and you subtract one. So 28

Cate 14:43
years ago, oh, there you go. It's easy. Look at you. Easy math. Well,

Scott Benner 14:47
not if you live in Canada. They teach you penguin feces or whatever they do, like, I don't know how they teach you people, you're you're feral, right? You just wander around eating fish heads and, yeah, no, I. Understand, you guys should build a city, that's all I'm saying. It would really, would really bring things around. Also, by the way, I don't know where in the Canada you are, but I don't know if anybody saw the news. Toronto can't handle a little rain. No. Jesus Christ.

Cate 15:15
They can't do it with snow either. Honestly, like they're in the news every single season because they have to, like, do an emergency whatever. They

Scott Benner 15:24
were swimming in the streets the other day. Yeah, they almost the port Isabel almost floated away. So 28 years ago, type one diabetes. Hey, your computer's making noises like, is there a way we can stop that? Because I know for certain you're gonna say abortion, and then it's gonna go bing, and I'm gonna be like, Yeah, I like, don't need that.

Unknown Speaker 15:40
That's what that is. Yeah, absolutely. So

Scott Benner 15:43
28 years ago, you're diagnosed. 11, turning 12 years old. We've gone over your whole story in 716, if people want to go listen to that after dark episode. At what point? I mean, let's just jump ahead. At what point do you become pregnant? So

Cate 15:58
I was turning 30 that year, so it was nine years ago.

Scott Benner 16:04
Okay, you're dating, you're married, you're with somebody.

Cate 16:07
I was dating him. So Tyler, who's my husband. Now, we started dating, March of 2015, and then I believe I became pregnant. I want to say it was May, May, June, July, August, yeah, so then it would have been at like, some point in May, I became pregnant.

Scott Benner 16:31
How long had you been dating at that point?

Cate 16:33
Well, we got together in March, so like two months. All right, yeah, see, I can do easy maths too. Look at that,

Scott Benner 16:40
yeah, no, I did you pull the goalie? Or was there were you already skating? No,

Cate 16:45
yeah, yeah. So, like, just because of my past history and just things that had happened in the past, just with my health and what have you, as well as, like, being long term with other partners and not like, I hadn't been on birth control for years and not using anything, because that was me being stupid. I never got pregnant, ever. I've never had a scare, never, ever, ever, like, so I just assumed that I couldn't, in all honesty, like, really, really stupid, but I just assumed that I couldn't, because I've never had a, like, close call, nothing like that. Here

Scott Benner 17:29
comes my first question. Jesus, sorry. So in your sexual history, were you, oh, god, how am I gonna do this promiscuous? No, no, no. I don't mean that. I mean when? Because, yes, no, because, because that's not what I meant, what I what I was trying to Oh God, what I was, oh my god. I don't know a way to do this. How, how were you avoiding it before you weren't just like, the ACT wasn't ending, oh God, inside of times, yeah, sometimes it was absolutely and you just weren't getting pregnant. You were like, obviously, I just can't get pregnant. Yeah,

Cate 18:05
like, like, I was like, I have PCOS. And I just, like, I just assumed, because it's happened often. I've been with, like, long term people quite a few times it like, it like, like, when I say completely ignorant, which most, like a lot of people are, when it comes to babies and getting pregnant and sex, I've

Scott Benner 18:27
seen the world go ahead, yeah, absolutely.

Cate 18:29
I just made the assumption that I wasn't able to get pregnant because I was 30. Had so many stupid calls, and it just never, ever happened, ever, like, ever, ever, ever

Scott Benner 18:43
was your attitude? Like, go ahead, throw it in there. Nothing's gonna happen. Yeah,

Cate 18:48
absolutely okay. And I was also, like, the way that I am, which also gets brought out in the first episode too, like that we first taught I have, like, pre deposition, I don't know if I'm predisposition. Oh, my lawyer, that's right, yeah, yes, what you said. Thank you for pronouncing it correctly. I feel like I have this thing, like nothing can happen to me, like I'm invincible. Oh, that's and that's not and like, kids and teens feel that way. Usually, you know what I mean, like, they got that really weird thing, but they still kind of tend to think that the really bad, bad stuff could potentially happen to them. But I don't have that. I don't I don't think of consequences to actions I never have. I doubt I ever will. It's just, it's just part of how I've always been. So I also like that has a strong play in it. It's like, yep, yes, this thing can happen. Yes, I know it can happen, but it's never going to happen to me. And if it does, like I it's not in me to think about it or whatever, like I've never. Or been able to ever, ever, ever, ever.

Scott Benner 20:02
It has a name, Kate.

Cate 20:03
I'm like a sociopath. Yeah,

Scott Benner 20:08
that's not the name I was thinking of. But I'm also, I use chat GPT here a little bit because I knew there was an answer to this question. I didn't want to fumble around for it. Also, I'm using this opportunity to say that if everything went well in the next four weeks, you guys have already been listening to a new series with my daughter called I don't understand where Arden and I sit down and go over a single topic that she legitimately doesn't understand. We talk about it and then break it down and then define it. Yeah. Okay, so the psychological mechanism that allows humans to believe that bad things can't happen to them is known as optimism bias. To break down the concept, optimism bias is a cognitive bias that causes individuals to believe they are less likely to experience negative events and more likely to experience positive events compared to others. Key factors of this people often believe they have more control over their outcomes than they actually do. This leads to a sense of invulnerability. Individuals tend to view themselves in a more favorable light, believing they are smarter, more skilled and more capable than others. I mean, optimism bias helps in managing anxiety and stress by maintaining a positive outlook on life and future events. This is actually it's a healthy thing for you to believe in yourself and expect that things won't go wrong. I've said this before on the podcast. If you were running around thinking stuff was going to go wrong all the time, that would be a mental illness. It would it would drive you into a problem. People may selectively focus on information that supports a positive outlook and ignore or downplay negative information with health, it's believing one is less likely to get sick or develop chronic illnesses despite engaging in risky behaviors, and it goes on from there. Yeah, there are benefits to it, as I said, and of course, there are drawbacks. But you had that feeling like I'm invincible, nothing's gonna happen to me,

Cate 21:57
yeah, but mine's tied into any social personality disorder, as opposed to optimism, which I like your version better. So that what we're going to start telling doctors I

Scott Benner 22:13
couldn't remember the enough of our conversation to ask. But if you were promiscuous at a young age, do you have bipolar or something like that? No,

Cate 22:21
so it's any social personality disorder. So I don't have empathy. I don't show empathy for anyone. I don't I don't have the ability to and never have incredibly impulsive kind of a better than thou way of thinking.

Scott Benner 22:39
Tell me if you heard episode 1253 last the beginning of this week, Ken. Ken, no, I had GLP meds impact mental health. Episode 1253 okay, definitely go listen to it. Okay, because a mom came on and laid out a story of her daughter who had is type one and has bipolar disorder, yeah. And they worked through, I mean, the problems are extensive, eventually getting the kid on lithium, which took away her suicidal ideation, but did not take away any of the other issues, and the rest of it went away when she started using a GLP. Oh, interesting, maybe, uh, inflammation, I don't know. Obviously not a doctor. Yeah, I'm an idiot who figured out how to pay for this microphone. Like, go listen to it. It's crazy. Okay, all right, absolutely, okay. So you have at the moment, anti so look at me. I'm so positive. I'm like, at the moment, till you get some we go V and then you'll probably be fine, by the way. Are the GLP companies not? Why are they not knocking down my door to buy an ad I'm obviously on the team. Like, come on. No. Okay, so that's who you've been, who you are. How has that impacted? Like, it sounds like you don't have any trouble forming private relationships. Do you have trouble keeping them? Yes. Okay, so when Tyler right? Yeah, when Tyler? I mean, listen, Tyler should have known better. That's first of all.

Speaker 1 24:07
That's why I tell him all the time. Yeah, your choice.

Scott Benner 24:12
Here's a PSA for boys, yeah, when a girl you've known for 60 days goes, Don't worry about it. Keep going. Here's what you do. You go, oh no, no, I paying for your Corolla. No, I see what's happening here. Okay, anyway, obviously terrible, pull out game. But

Cate 24:34
it just like, proves that. Like, I shouldn't say proves, but, you know, boys sing their penises a lot, yeah, so clearly, when you're about to jizz, there's no brain. There's no blood in the actual brain, it's just all in the penis. Being like, it feel awkward because

Scott Benner 24:52
you're significantly younger than I am, but once you get to that point, like you could probably say to me. If you keep going, I'm gonna like, you know, I don't know, kill your puppy. And I'd be like, he's lived a good life. You can make fun of boys all you want. And I don't know what it feels like to be on the other side of intercourse, but on our side of it, it's an awesome, yeah, yeah. Anyway, you can, you

Cate 25:21
get it. You can kind of understand poor Tyler. And where, no,

Scott Benner 25:25
no, yeah. If you would have killed Tyler in the middle of it, he could stop the Ukraine war, he'd have been like, you know, they've already got all those weapons. They probably want to use them. Tyler does what he does, and then you find out you're pregnant. What's the like? How does that I mean, two months is not a long time. So how does that conversation go

Cate 25:42
in all in all honesty, it's like, thankfully, Tyler kind of already knew my personality at the time, so when I find out, it's probably two months later, in all honesty, because I hide my periods, but they were not right, but I still had them okay, you know? So like it's thinking back now, definitely different from what the normal was. But it also wasn't weird for me to have a bit of an abnormal period. It would be weird for me not to have one at all, but it would be fine for me to have an abnormal period because I was still having them. It never even, like, I didn't even clock it, like, the first close to two months. So

Scott Benner 26:30
you guys have been together about four months at this point. Then when you're like, I think I got a bun in the oven,

Cate 26:36
absolutely like it is, like, we're into like, end of July, going into August. By the time I'm like, something is really wrong with me, yeah,

Scott Benner 26:48
okay, go to a doctor. Figure it out on your own. Pee on a stick. What do you

Cate 26:52
do? So, how to pee on a stick? So this is the thing about the UK. So I was in the midst like, so everything with Tyler, like, my relationship with Tyler accelerated greatly, even without that. Like, so I was in the midst of moving in with Tyler. My lease was up. We were kind of, like, in it to win it, you know, like, it felt great in more ways than one.

Scott Benner 27:17
Let me point out, Kate too. You got the you got the hormones running around too. You don't even realize, like, this is amazing. This guy seems like the right one, and I need to make a nest with him. Yeah,

Cate 27:28
I was not. I had a very difficult pregnancy, right? Honestly, the guy was, I must have been awesome in bed. Wait, wait, hold

Scott Benner 27:38
on, what? I'm sorry. I was

Cate 27:40
like, I must have been awesome in bed or something, because I was like, an utter bitch, like, like an absolute, if I'm going to go back to my UK roots, like an absolute, oh, like an awful, awful. I was just grouchy, and I was like, sick, and my numbers were high, and I was just,

Scott Benner 28:01
you're saying there wasn't a lot good, there wasn't a lot of

Unknown Speaker 28:04
good. Like, you know, let's move in.

Scott Benner 28:09
Like, this is great, yeah, bring your toothbrush lady with the velvet pocket. You come on over. Yeah. My gosh. Well, good for you, Kate, yeah. I mean, sounds like you got a you got something special going on? No, that's not right. In this conversation, you're not doing anything special, is what I'm saying,

Unknown Speaker 28:28
Nothing. No, all right, no, I got nothing. You've

Scott Benner 28:31
never walked into a room with a lamp and said, I have an idea. No,

Speaker 1 28:34
I got an idea. Okay, that would be, that's weird. Could be a

Scott Benner 28:41
small lamp. I don't know what we're talking about exactly. Yeah, I was probably thinking, Yeah, I don't know exactly what I was getting at. So, so he's into you big time. You're flooded with pregnancy hormones. So you think he's the greatest thing since, like, sliced bread. A lot of women will. I shouldn't say this. I'm gonna get people divorced, but a lot of people are, when they're on birth control, end up very attracted to men that they later find out when they're off birth control. They're like, I don't really like this guy. Amazing, yeah, but the birth control pill gives you that like I'm pregnant vibe, and you're you're looking for anybody who looks like they can put three squares on the table and maybe hug a kid once in a while. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you guys are moving in. It's going quickly. You find out you're pregnant, you go to him and you say, hey,

Cate 29:30
like, I'm Hey, I'm pregnant. It's like, we both, I want to say we both went to the pharmacy to grab

Scott Benner 29:39
17 more privacy tests, yeah, basically,

Cate 29:42
like, we're trying to figure out which one's the best one most accurate, came back, like, peed on the stick and was like, yeah. So it's like, here's positive, like, but yeah, everything kind of just stood

Scott Benner 29:55
still. Not something you want. We're excited about. No

Cate 29:59
and. And I've, like, I've never really wanted kids like that. Was never that. Was never anything that I saw for myself.

Scott Benner 30:09
Do you have kids now? No, well, I

Cate 30:11
mean, I've got three dogs, and they are absolutely my children. So yes, but listen,

Scott Benner 30:17
I mean it with deference the dog lovers. I mean, yeah, okay, but you don't wanna be you. You've steadfastly stuck to that over the last eight years or so. Yes, okay, all right, so it's an ocean from you. What is it from him?

Cate 30:30
It's kind of the same, like, it's, it's more of like it was, honestly like a night of stunned silence, staring, like, yeah, and and like, okay, so what now is, really, yeah, like, it was a lot of, I think both of us kind of had, like, a bit of a panic face on.

Scott Benner 30:49
Who's the first one who, like, is brave enough to say out loud, are we keeping a baby? Like, who says that?

Cate 30:56
In all honesty, I don't know. And I don't know if it was me being like, I can't, like, I can't keep this. Or if it was me being like, what are your thoughts on not keeping it, or something like that, and I, and I also don't know if it was him being like, are you going to keep it, Tyler throughout the entire thing? Wasn't like, this is your decision. I'm not like, I'm not. It's not like he was pushing it on me, because that's not what he was doing. But he made it very clear that he was along for the ride no matter what, and that this was my decision like so if I if I wanted to be pregnant, if I wanted to go, go through with it, he was 100% super excited about it. If he saw, if I saw I wasn't able to and that my health couldn't sustain it, because I currently it wasn't able to sustain it, be able to not do anything, he was like, like, 100% on board with you. So, like, he was always there, but made sure that in the end, it was my decision, and he let me know that he was like, I've never aspired to be a dad. He was like, I'm happy if we have them. I'm happy if we don't. But he's like, but this isn't my this is not I wasn't like, I need to be a dad, and nothing else matters. You know? He was like, I have other aspirations. You know? He's like, would I would this be amazing. Yeah, would it not be? Yeah? Like it's fine, setting

Scott Benner 32:25
your health aside for a second and going back in that moment and even with with hindsight, can you beyond, I just never thought of having kids or didn't want kids? Can you put more context to what it is about being a parent that's not attractive to you? So

Cate 32:40
it has changed since, but it was just the whole I've just never, at the time, I never felt it. I've I have friends who like that was their number one dream, like, that's what they talked about when they were looking for a partner. That's what they like. They were all about it, you know. And it was, you know, when they talked about the future, it was about family. And I was like, I'm traveling the world, like, I've got it to do, like, I'm not, absolutely not. Like my friends have been having kids since they were, like, 16 and 17. Like, well, so

Scott Benner 33:20
you've been around it then, oh, yeah, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker 33:23
But it wasn't, um,

Scott Benner 33:24
give me a second. It's not, it's not that I don't like kids or I don't think I'd be a good parent. It's I'm trying to live a life here that I think would be slowed down by having children.

Cate 33:34
No, it was, I'm trying to live a life here that I don't see children in, okay, like, that's really, like, not that I would be slowed down a side thought, yeah, like, I'm not going to deny it. Like, I'm not going to deny that I absolutely think that children can slow you down. Do I think that they can stop you No, do I think that they can slow you down? Yeah? Do I think you need to think differently about how you do things? Absolutely well,

Scott Benner 33:58
it changes your course.

Unknown Speaker 34:00
Absolutely it does.

Scott Benner 34:02
Can I ask you if you if you had that baby, do you think you would have done that? Do you think you would have said, Okay, well, I'm gonna set aside the things that I wanted to do and I'm gonna raise the baby the way that I think that should happen. Or do you think you would have been Oh, do you think you would just be in Madagascar with a baby on your hip? No,

Cate 34:19
I don't, I don't know. I don't, I, honestly, I don't know, because, again, my brain doesn't think like that either. So like, I can't picture a future if it's not a possibility, and currently, like, it's it didn't happen. So I can't think of the what ifs my brain doesn't function that way.

Scott Benner 34:40
Tell me your fears of what you would have messed up with a baby

Cate 34:44
I had always like. So my biggest fear, and it still is, is that I don't have empathy. I don't have it at all I like and so how I care for people is very different. And how you would care for people, or how, like, how Tyler cares for people, even my own mother, like he treats her very differently than I do, and speaks to her differently. And so I'm very cognizant of like that you need a type of nurturing, I think, to be able to ensure that your your kid, kind of knows what the human ability is to be around others. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think I would want another one of me around, like, just hanging out like that. That to me, it's not a great it's not a great life to live. It really isn't like I know the vast differences between how I interact with people compared to others, and others get a lot more fulfillment with with being around people, and on being in their jobs and being in a family and being a friend and all that jazz. It's very different for them, whereas for me, it's I'm manipulative. I am uncaring, in a way that most would you know would see as caring. I am impulsive. I have I don't give a shit what I say, and I don't care about how any of it affects you. I don't care. I don't care if you're sick. I don't give a shit. It doesn't affect me. Why do I care if you're sick right now? Oh, you're dying. Sucks for you. Like, yikes,

Scott Benner 36:29
yeah. Like, something comes up on on social media. You're like, Oh my God, I don't know a famous actor died. You don't nothing.

Cate 36:38
And that's weird to me. Like, I've, like, there's been, it's Michael Jackson. People care, yeah, yeah, okay. Like, Michael Jackson, like this person that you don't even know, and my boss at the time was like, bawling her eyes out. And I was like, what the

Scott Benner 36:56
unstable to me, but whatever. What? Yeah, yeah. Don't judge yourself too hard on that one. Like, I was like, I was like, when, when somebody famous, I don't know, passes away. I'm like, oh, that's like, Donald. Donald Sutherland died recently. And I was like, it made me go. It made me go. Also Canadian. Oh, Canadian. I thought you said comedian. I was like, No, he's not. No. Canadian, yeah. And I um, correct. Look at me. I'm like, Yes, point for you. And I thought I stopped for a second, and I said, Oh, mash was such a good movie, and he was terrific in it. And I thought about a couple of other things he was in, and then I it occurred to me that he had worked well into the end of his life, and that we'd enjoyed him and things like all the way up to hunger games and stuff like that. And I took a second to tell my kids. I was like, Hey, that guy was a really good actor and and I was like, and his son's an actor too. And I was like, you know, have you seen this movie? Then I never thought about it again. And I did not cry. He wasn't one of my favorites or anything like that. But I felt like I had a reasonable reaction to that. Would you have not even gone that far into it?

Cate 37:59
Oh, no. I was like, Oh, he's Canadian. And then moved on with the end of it. Gotcha it that that was the end of it. Like that. I absolutely know he died, because it was all over my social but I was like, Oh, he's Canadian, and then there's nobody with that influx of like,

Scott Benner 38:13
oh yeah, we lost another race pirate, okay. And so let me, let me slow you down for a second. Ask you this question, can you characterize your day to day life? Are you happy, fulfilled when you think about what life is? What is it?

Cate 38:30
I don't know. I don't I don't know how to answer that question outside of it sounding like a scholarly answer, life is a life is a bunch of events that happens to you until you die, and some of them are fun and some of them are it, and it is just what it is. Yeah.

Scott Benner 38:56
I mean, that's pretty accurate. What's the most joyous thing that's happened to you in the last month

Cate 39:01
my and it weirds Tyler out, but like, My dogs are genuinely and I don't know why. I have zero idea why. But like, I know love, because I love them okay, and I know that. I know that full stop, like, I like, and it allows me to be like, Wow, so this is how normal people feel, like I don't even and Tyler knows it, but like the the type of affection, and to the extent of affection, and what I feel inside, that I feel for my dogs, I don't feel for My husband? Can I say that I love my husband absolutely in the in the manner of which I can and do absolutely, like yes, full stop as well. Is it what I think how you love your wife, or have loved your wife and love your kids? Know, Like, I know it's different. Couple

Scott Benner 40:01
questions, you're you're on that Titanic film, and you're floating on the headboard that you pretend only fits one person. But then you realize this thing's huge, and I could have easily gotten leaving it harder to Caprio up on this thing. And up comes Tyler and your dog. Who do you pull up on the headboard? The dog? And what do you tell Tyler? Anything?

Speaker 1 40:21
Love you like hopefully you'll stay alive in this ice, cold water.

Scott Benner 40:25
But the dog needs to come out. The dog though, the dog is, yeah, he knows this. Tyler's aware of this. Yeah. Were you abused as a young person?

Cate 40:35
No, do I have trauma? Yes. Did it come from that? No, this is just something, how I'm wired,

Scott Benner 40:41
Okay, what about Tyler? Lets him be okay with that. In

Cate 40:45
all honesty, I have no I do not know. I don't know. We have like, I am very open. I am very communicative. He unders like he understands. Because there are absolutely times where I have to go to him and ask him about like, human reaction, human emotion, and about whether or not this is right, like or not right, if this is normal, or if this person is overreacting like so he has daily conversations with me about people and their like, emotional regulation, and whether or not it's normal. He knows that. So, like, if we get in if he's telling me something and he's super excited about it, and I've never had the conversation before, I don't I don't know how to react, right? So a lot of my responses are learned behaviors. I mimic.

Scott Benner 41:49
You don't feel them or even mean them. You're just

Cate 41:51
i It's all Mimic, right? Like so this is how I know. I know how to sue someone when they're crying, because I've seen it exactly in front of me, not on a movie, like it's actually happened, and it's happened a few times. So Tyler is used to me being like, how do you want me? How do you want me to react? Like, what do you want me to say?

Scott Benner 42:14
Has he suffered trauma as a child? No,

Cate 42:17
no. Like, bless him. It's, I'm so lucky. It's stupid, like it honestly, is really, really stupid.

Scott Benner 42:25
He's so empathetic that he can make up for this. I

Cate 42:29
or he gets something else from it. I don't, I don't, I don't know. Or he doesn't understand. He doesn't understand. And then he does, because there are times where his face falls, it's like he's forgotten, and then he remembers who he's dealing with.

Scott Benner 42:46
Do you feel like you're letting him down when that happens? You don't do you

Cate 42:50
probably not to the extent that you would. Okay. So like, like, I do.

Scott Benner 42:55
You recognize it exactly. Donald Sutherland's Canadian, but then that's the end of it. Yeah, yeah,

Cate 42:59
yeah. And I wish I could do better. Like, I do say that, like, so I do have, like, which is also kind of like a doctor would say it, but you do have a bit of regret, like, you do kind of feel that consequence, but I don't align it the same way, but I do, I do want to be better for him,

Scott Benner 43:17
right? We don't want to do we don't want to be falling apart because Michael Jackson instead. But we'd like to sit around for a minute and go, Oh my god, man in the mirror is good song. Yeah. Okay,

Cate 43:25
yeah. And I want to be better for him. It was someone else, like, I don't have that for them. So I think he also recognizes that, like, how I am with him is actually very different than how I am with other people, and other people I've had in my life and that I'm supposed to love. You know that that has that relationship with me is supposed to be different, and he can see that it's it's not like I don't there's nothing there, right? Where there is something there with him? Yeah,

Scott Benner 43:55
let me ask two questions. They're gonna seem strange, but they're the ones in my head right now. This one's got nothing to do with me. I think is going to make a point. You listen to this podcast, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 44:03
How do you feel about me? I don't feel anything about you.

Scott Benner 44:06
Don't feel anything about No, that's fine. That's what I'm expecting you to say, Yeah, but you've gotten actionable information from the podcast. It's made you a healthier person. Is that? Right?

Unknown Speaker 44:14
Yes.

Scott Benner 44:15
Are you grateful? No, no. If I said to you, Kate, hey, I need 20 bucks, would you send it to me?

Cate 44:21
No, unless you, unless we made like, a deal, so unless I benefit from it in some way. No, you

Scott Benner 44:29
get done listening to an episode and you're like, God, damn, that's a great idea. I'm gonna do that next time I eat blah, blah, blah. Thank God Scott's alive. No, no. Okay, now some questions that in 2024 people definitely don't ask anymore, but I think they're important, and I'm just going to ask them please, please, if you don't want to answer any of them, just tell me you don't want to. I'm trying to think about this from Tyler's perspective for a second, and I'm going to get very, very surface, because you've gone through the deep stuff, and there's not a lot to swim in. Are you. Rich.

Unknown Speaker 45:00
No,

Scott Benner 45:01
are you hot?

Cate 45:02
I would say that I am attractive. Yes, yes, I do have that body that I have, a body that men are attracted to. Yes, okay, are

Scott Benner 45:10
you Ultra sexual?

Unknown Speaker 45:11
I used to be, yes,

Scott Benner 45:12
but not now, not now. No, because,

Cate 45:16
because there's no need to be unless I want something, because

Scott Benner 45:19
you got him, yeah, all right. So you were throwing that thing at anybody to get them in there, but now they're there, and you're like, I don't need to give it to you to keep you here, because you're staying, I can see you're staying. So like, there's no reason to do this.

Speaker 1 45:33
Or I like, they've they've lost usefulness. Does

Scott Benner 45:38
the sex bring you any pleasure. Currently,

Cate 45:41
it doesn't, not, because it's not good. But right now, I don't know for if that's going on. It's a

Scott Benner 45:51
well, you just stuck up for Tyler. That was interesting. Yeah, I know, yeah, because you were like, listen, Tyler can sling big. It's not his fault, okay? Like, so like, but it's not, but you nothing. You don't care.

Speaker 1 46:04
I don't care. Yeah, I don't care if we have it, like you do it, even though you don't

Unknown Speaker 46:09
want

Cate 46:10
to do in the moment. Like, I know that I get something from it. That's how I see it. Does that make sense? So he wants that. So the reasons why we have it are too different. So he wants to have it because it's intimacy, right? He wants to physically show his love for me. He likes that intimacy. He likes the touching. I can't stand him touching me. I can't stand people touching me. I see it as a thing that I derive pleasure from, but it's not long lasting. And once it's done, it's done, right? Like, it's not like, it stays with me the rest of the day. Like, yeah, it kind of puts me in a good mood, because the endorphins are going and what have you. And it's dopamine, right? But that is an everlasting to me that doesn't, that doesn't stay do? I constantly want to seek it out so that I can get it I used to. That's kind of the reasons why it kind of made me feel a bit more normal. So

Scott Benner 47:04
you're having a lot of sex at one point to make you feel more normal, because the endorphins,

Cate 47:08
okay? And because I got some it was like, Oh, I'm feeling something right. Like, when you kind of, it's not that I feel dead inside all of the time, but you're kind of feeling dead inside all of the time. So whatever, it's the same reason why I go for, like, I used to be extremely impulsive and put myself in really dangerous situations, because you were the jolt you get something from it, absolutely yes. Can I tell you something, what a way to be alive, amazing. Like,

Scott Benner 47:31
I was having a bad day the other day, and I went out and drove fast on purpose, like, to get some adrenaline going every day. No, no. I was like, I was having a particularly bad day. And I was like, if I just drive quickly for five seconds, I can pop my adrenaline up and get rid of this. I actually did that on purpose, so, and I did that, by the way, on a back street near a school bus stop. No, I'm just kidding. I was I went somewhere that I thought was very safe and kind of out of the way. Well, this is very honest of you. First of all, Kate, if you don't feel like you owe me anything, and you don't give a what anybody else thinks, Why are you telling this story? Because a lot of people say, I come on to tell my story to help other people, but you don't care if you're helping other people. Are you bragging?

Cate 48:16
No, no. And it's like, yeah, no, I don't. I'm trying to think of, what do you get out of this? How to describe it? Does it stroke an ego in a way? Probably, like I would be it's stupid to not think so. Do I think it's important? Probably do. I think it's important because I think I'm important. Likely.

Scott Benner 48:37
Why do you care if it's important? Oh,

Speaker 1 48:39
yeah. So like, that's Yeah, good question,

Scott Benner 48:43
because you don't go around telling people I was on a podcast if you want to listen, right? No, I don't, because you don't care if they like you or not.

Cate 48:50
No, I don't, absolutely not. No, and I like, I'm I do business the same way. I get into a lot of like, I yeah, I get Yeah, because I don't give a I don't care. You're

Scott Benner 49:02
incredibly consistent, yes, yeah, because there's no like, you don't care if Tyler cares. You don't care if I care. You don't care if any. You don't you're not trying to make a faceless person like you like you know, but you're still here. I mean, it's an hour your life. You're telling a lot of intimate things. I'm assuming you don't tell a lot of people this stuff, right? It's not

Cate 49:21
something that you just bring up in like normal conversation. If anyone were to ask me, absolutely, I would tell them, because I have again, because I don't care. I have nothing to hide, right to me, it's, do I think more people should be like me? Yes. Do I think that telling my story can give some permission, not in the sense of them not caring, but telling people so that it's not like it happens to people. I'm also like a huge again, this is where a contradiction will come in. Like, I'm a huge feminist, and so for whatever reason, I have. Of like a like a vigilante, like, type of complex in the sense that I feel like things happen to people that shouldn't, and I think that they deserve justice a lot more than what they've received. And

Scott Benner 50:17
karma is not equally being doled out in the world? Absolutely. And

Cate 50:21
I think anyone who believes it is a liar to themselves, and they need to be truthful.

Scott Benner 50:28
But why do you care about this part so,

Cate 50:30
this part so because, and we haven't barely even talked about it, but the abortion side of things is that women's right to choose or not to choose, I think, is used so much as a political platform, or as a as a religious platform, or as just a way, like a righteous platform, that I think that they're villainized and they shouldn't be villainized. Why do you care? So that this is, that's what I mean, is that that's like the, this is important contradiction, yeah, like that one, you're fired, yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Scott Benner 51:11
Don't give a he looks sad and he just wants to feel my skin touches. He can go, can pound sand, right, right?

Cate 51:20
If anyone around with Tyler, he belongs to me, he's mine. I am like he belongs to me, he's mine, and I will ruin anyone who affects him. That makes sense, because he's think of it as almost like a possession. I don't think of Tyler as a possession, but I also think of Tyler as a possession. So he is, he's mine to protect. And, yeah, so like, but

Scott Benner 51:50
not for his well being, for yours, because you went all, you went to all this trouble. All comes

Cate 51:55
Absolutely, it all so, and that's just, that's just the part of the thing is that it will always come back to me for, like, a selfish reason. Yeah, listen,

Scott Benner 52:03
Kate, here's the high side of this. Anybody who got this far into it who's very pro, like, anti abortion, is, like, you know, it's probably okay that this girl didn't have a baby. So, like, I'm not usually for this, but okay, I'm gonna make an exception here for Cate, yeah, yeah. So you destroy another person for with Tyler, because of all the hard work you put into getting Tyler into your house and keeping him quiet when you don't want to have sex with him, like you got him where you want him now you don't need anybody messing with him, not

Cate 52:35
in like, if they are, and it's not like messing like, like flirting like, I don't mean like that, but like, if they it's hard to hurt him, or if you're mean to him, like, I absolutely will you up. Like, are you mean to him? Make him upset? Probably, he will probably be the first one to say that I'm

Scott Benner 52:54
you make him upset. Likely, yeah, why is it not okay for other

Cate 52:58
people not to think that? Because, because there doesn't need to be logic to it. Scott is because, why is it okay for you? It's not, it's and I don't, I will never, I will never condone any like the way that I am to anyone.

Scott Benner 53:16
Is there no effort to change it?

Cate 53:18
I think so. And I like, again, it's like, I I can see myself change and how I am with Tyler all of the time, and he can too, like how we first were to how we are now is almost night and day. So you

Scott Benner 53:36
just need to live to, like, 197 and you think this is all going to be

Cate 53:40
okay. Uh, hopefully not. No, I also, I will also go before he will, most likely Wait. Why? So I know that he will probably have a really nice life.

Scott Benner 53:49
Why? Why do you think you'll go before him? Outside

Cate 53:53
of stats, I know that women live longer, but I've got, like, a few

Scott Benner 53:58
things going, yeah. How do you find the energy to care about your diabetes?

Cate 54:02
It's a thing that is there that keep like, and if I don't manage it, then it set my life and that you care about is a benefit to me. So if I want to continue to live longer, if I like so during like, a really, not so great patch growing up when we were still trying to figure out what the was going on and what have you absolutely tried to commit suicide a few times, and what have you and absolutely used diabetes as a tool to self harm, because it's, it's it was no longer, it's not useful to me. Like, if I want to die keeping, like, keeping track of it, like keeping it good and good control or whatever is no longer beneficial.

Scott Benner 54:47
I feel like I'm going to take a lot of for this next question, but it feels like the next obvious question,

Unknown Speaker 54:52
yeah,

Scott Benner 54:52
oh God, hold on a second. I don't want to be judged and I don't want emails. Okay, just try to put yourself in my position. Okay? Okay, why is it you want to be alive?

Cate 55:02
Because I still get it like, I still get pleasure from being alive. I still find life very interesting, and I find people as like as I find people very interesting, and I like very interesting, but

Scott Benner 55:17
like subjects. You know, you don't want to be involved subjects, Oh

Cate 55:19
God no, yeah, absolutely like to be studied to the point where, like, Tyler absolutely is, like, you need to stop talking, because really fascinated. Well, no, I but I get really fascinated by stuff and the and if it fascinates me or gets me excited, and I haven't come across this particular situation, I don't really know how to react, so it's kind of like it's not like autism, but it's almost like you don't recognize the social thing that's happening, and you make it extremely awkward and and how you've reacted is not normal. So I do that. So like someone I had started, kind of started reading about Rwanda and, like, the genocide there and what have you. And then I met someone from Rwanda, and I was like, did you grow up during and she's like, Yeah. Like, this is the reason why I came to Canada. And I was like, That's fascinating. That's not something that you tell someone who literally went through a genocide, right? I was like, tell me everything. Like, that's not it's like, oh my gosh. Like, that's right, I'm so sorry. That's what you went through, you know. Like, that must have been horrific. Like, did you, you know, like, hopefully your family's okay. Like, that's usually how you're supposed to respond. Whereas I was like, science experiment, like, amazing. Like, tell me everything, like she's not in real life, yeah, no, absolutely,

Scott Benner 56:44
she's a reporter on something that you found interesting.

Cate 56:47
Absolutely, yeah. And so, like, Tyler is like, Oh, that's not how you do that. That's absolutely not how you go about that conversation. And I was like, oh. And then so he had to, like, teach me how to go through like, a conversation like a normal person. Okay? Yeah, like, and he does it like, we'll go, and it's like, small things as well. We'll go to, like, a craft market around Christmas. You know, people are selling their artisan wares that, you know, they put blood, sweat and tears into, that I don't give a about. And I will absolutely just start being like, I really hate this chain. This is, it looks cheap. It's fine. And like, the person is right, literally right in front of me. Yeah, no, I'm not trying to, I'm I'm stating facts of how I like, this is, this looks cheap, like, and he's like, that's not, you don't do that. Like, that's not what you're supposed to do. I was like, Oh, what am I supposed to do? Let me educate you. This is what you're supposed to do. People

Scott Benner 57:41
might be thinking, Scott got pretty far away from the abortion conversation, but, and here's, here's why, there's nowhere to go with it, because if, if I ask her how she felt like because all my questions were going to be about like, hey, in hindsight, are you sorry you did it like, you know is, did it? Did you have any lingering guilt? I think we know all the answers to all those questions. Well, no, no. Like, wait, no,

Speaker 1 58:07
no. So, like, do I ever think

Scott Benner 58:11
about it? Absolutely, I do. You wonder what the baby might be like?

Unknown Speaker 58:16
Absolutely.

Scott Benner 58:17
Why do you care? What? Jesus? Okay, hold on. I'm sorry, because

Unknown Speaker 58:21
I'm I'm curious. Like, it's like, oh, wait

Scott Benner 58:24
a minute. Are you curious what the baby would be like, or do you miss?

Cate 58:28
I don't know, I but I don't know, right? Like, and there are things that, like, happen in my life, even how I feel about my dogs, I didn't know what was going on or, like, I don't know until I know, right, like, until someone's like, this is what this is. I was like, Oh, okay.

Scott Benner 58:48
Have you ever wondered, What if I would have had that baby and it would have, and it would have changed all these feelings for me, and I would have, would

Cate 58:55
I, yeah, like, would it have changed me with this? Is this the catalyst of me being different. Would I? Would I think about this child as I would my dogs, as I do Tyler, like, we

Scott Benner 59:08
don't want you to think about the baby like, Tyler, but like,

Cate 59:11
but in the in the sense of like, you know, like I went Mama Bear. You know, you always hear mom say that, like, I'll go full on Mama Bear, on them. And like, I do that for Tyler, like, because, you it's this protective instinct. I think that, like, would I have it because I don't care, or would I because it's mine, and it's mine in a completely different way than what Tyler is?

Scott Benner 59:35
Have you ever put somebody else before you? Would you step in front of a bullet for someone,

Unknown Speaker 59:40
if it benefited me, yes, how would

Scott Benner 59:43
it benefit you? You're gonna get shot. It's not gonna benefit you. So like no, but

Cate 59:46
it absolutely can, absolutely can. Would you give your life? Is how you can tell that you are not a manipulative person, so that, like you just think of life very differently than I do. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:59
Would you give your. Life for someone else?

Cate 1:00:01
Absolutely not. That doesn't benefit me at all. I would be dead. Why would I give my life for somebody? What

Scott Benner 1:00:06
if it was your kid?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:07
I don't know. I

Scott Benner 1:00:09
don't have a child. Tyler, no, I don't know the dog. I don't know. Yeah, probably not, though, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:00:16
I don't know. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:00:17
think you'd be like, I think you'd be like, whoops, guys, you're gonna die. Sorry. I

Cate 1:00:21
don't know. I don't know. I genuinely like, I can for like, how I've been like, yes, no, I don't care about you. Like, I can be very blunt and be like, I know this for fact, for those, which is not common in my life, for those I genuinely don't know. I genuinely don't know. Can I tell

Scott Benner 1:00:43
you something I've been thinking about for a half an hour? Yeah, after we have this conversation, I'm going to run it through and turn it into a transcript. I don't usually do that right away. That usually happens, like, long after, like, way down the line and ending. I'm going to put this out as an mp three, turn it into a transcript, feed it into chat, GPT 4.0, and say, What is wrong with Kate?

Speaker 1 1:01:08
Can you share the results with me? I hope it finds me like a very normal person. Can

Scott Benner 1:01:13
I tell you something I'm not sure I'm gonna read it into the end of the recording, like because, and here's why, not, because I think that AI has the answers to everything, but because I think that inside of this conversation, like, you know, when you listen to something like this, and at the end you go, Oh, you know what? Like, she said this, and that means this. And people have all these theories, but people's brains aren't big enough to hold all but chat. GPT can hold everything that you've said and come up with a diagnosis for what's happening to you, yeah? Because even when I asked, like, do you ever think about what the baby might be like, it's not in terms of, like, yeah, I I wonder what it would be like to have an eight year old running around my house that loves me unconditionally, and I love it back unconditionally. You're not thinking about that. You're just thinking again, like, as a researcher, like, Oh, I do wonder what it would be like, but not, not the way other people are thinking about it. And by the way, I don't think that makes you there's some people who are going to hear this and think this woman's a monster. It's just, it's wiring, wiring. No, it's wiring and don't, no, no, it's wiring and chemicals. And it's no different than, like, you couldn't get upset at somebody for not finding red roses, like, pretty like, it's just whatever is all inside of them. They look at a red rose and they go, not the flower for me, right? And then other people see them and think, Oh, those are so gorgeous, and look how silky they are. And blah, blah, I don't think anyone. I just genuinely don't think that people turn into who they are decisively. I think it's so much about, you know, what's inside of you, and literally, the chemicals running around inside of you and and, I mean, just imagine that this little 11 year old girl was running around bipolar, and she took a peptide and her symptoms went away like, like. So there's a world where there's the thing that we could inject into you that would turn things a little more back to what we consider to be normal, where you might suddenly look at Tyler and be like, Oh my god, there you are. Give me a hug. Have you ever considered that that you're not the way you'd want to be if you could be.

Cate 1:03:22
No, because, again, it's one of those, like, my brain doesn't my understand why?

Scott Benner 1:03:29
Yeah, yeah. But have you ever thought? Never, once you've never philosophized about it? No,

Cate 1:03:34
no. My again, my brain, like, doesn't allow it, like it's, it's, automatically gets dismissed like, I can't entertain it because I like, I can't, I can't.

Scott Benner 1:03:46
Do you like me when you listen? Are you just listening because you need it for diabetes the latter? Yeah, you because I might. I probably seem like a pussy to you, right?

Cate 1:03:57
No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. No, I wouldn't.

Scott Benner 1:04:02
Like, when I start crying in the middle of someone's story, you don't go, Jesus Christ man, tuck your vagina.

Cate 1:04:09
You could probably hear my eye roll from where you are. Yeah, absolutely. Like, somebody

Scott Benner 1:04:13
says something like, thoughtful. Sometimes even I'm like, oh, that made me tear up. Like, that's so nice. And you're probably like, I wouldn't let this guy anywhere near my naked ass. Yeah, right, right. Okay, okay. Do you find me amusing? Yes, you do. Okay,

Cate 1:04:28
well, yeah, I mean, I but like you and I have had laughs during this conversation.

Scott Benner 1:04:32
Oh no, I'm hilarious, but, I mean, I don't know if you, if it's touching you or not, is what I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:04:37
saying. Look, I desired I find you amusing right now.

Scott Benner 1:04:40
So there you go. No, no, no, I'm incredibly funny. That's for certain but only to certain people. But I wasn't certain if you were going to be one of those people or not. And so, like, so you started listening to this because you're like, I need help with my I see people talking about this thing. It helps them with their diabetes. I have diabetes. I'll go use it and make me better.

Speaker 1 1:04:57
That's exactly like that. Is genuinely so I can live

Scott Benner 1:05:02
longer and be unhappy. Yeah, so it

Cate 1:05:05
was like, what? And it wasn't because other people were talking Well, no, I don't think it was that other people were talking about it. I was like, Okay, I really, I've gotten better control over my diabetes, but I want, like, I want to do better,

Scott Benner 1:05:22
like, one more time, yeah, yeah. And then

Cate 1:05:25
so, like, I did a, like, genuinely did a Google search, or, like, looked up on Spotify, because I was like, okay, so podcast, maybe it's something that I can listen to, because I was traveling a lot, and it, like, it literally came up on my pack, on my podcast, and it would have been, I don't even know what the first episode was, well, I'm gonna thank you, but obviously it was, like, it was good and I was okay, so I can continue to do this. So for the most part, like, there are ones where I can't be bothered to listen when you're doing, like, interviews that I really enjoy. The ones that like, like the Pro Series, or, like, the really interesting ones. I listen to the one, yeah, and I'll listen to the one between you and Arden that's coming up, because that's fascinating to me. Like, what she doesn't know, and how you how you guys, like, talk about it and how she starts to understand it, how the how that works. I find that fascinating, so I

Scott Benner 1:06:27
bet you would, yeah, you should see the list she's making. Sometimes it just says, like, I'm like, just write down everything you don't understand. She goes, Okay, money and I'm like, All right,

Unknown Speaker 1:06:37
yes, yeah, yes, art, and why

Scott Benner 1:06:40
is there a two party system in President, in politics? And I'm like, write it down. She's got such a list you should It's fast. It's gonna be great. And by the way, concurrently, I'm also doing one with Jenny, but it's more about diabetes.

Cate 1:06:53
Yeah. See, I love Jenny, so, like, I love when you guys get together. Like, I love that, but

Scott Benner 1:06:59
you love it for you, you don't go, Scott's really shining here. We should send him a

Speaker 1 1:07:03
cookie, yeah, but I think you shine better with Jenny about diabetes. I think because,

Cate 1:07:10
like, there's even just comment, like, even just the offhand commentary, or, like, even just how we know each other, talking about things with Arden and stuff like that. Like, I just like the two of you together, that conversation about anything I really enjoy. I really enjoy that I don't like, whether it's chemistry or, you know, it's just knowing each other and being together, you know, experience. It's just, I think you shine better with with Jenny in your series, so

Scott Benner 1:07:42
I appreciate that. I would, I mean, now I'm telling you I appreciate I'm like, What am I wasting my time telling her I appreciate it for but let me thank you, even though I don't imagine this is going to touch you at all, but you've just unburdened me in a significant way. Okay? Because if you could try to imagine, like this thing that I do, there are people who absolutely love me. There are people who hate me. There are people who think I'm hurting people. There are people who think I'm helping people. There are people who think I'm saving people. Like the gamut of what people who can hear my voice think of me is amazing. None of them are 100% right, by the way. Like they don't really know they don't actually know me. They know this bit of me, right, which is, fair enough, is a lot of me. I really don't hold anything back while I'm talking, but I also don't go into like, if we would have talked more, if this conversation about abortion would have went a different way. I would have told you that I think that politically, I'm pro choice, but I also think that if you think that having an abortion is not killing something, I think you're lying to yourself. I see this thing very down the middle, yeah, and I could argue either side of it. But I also think that might be my personality to some degree too, where I really do value trying not to take a stand one way or the other, and because I'm interested by the conversation. I'm just actually interested, and I care about the people you're interested, and you're like, well, they're secondary to this, yeah, yeah, and so, but anyway, you've unburdened me, because I am never again going to spend five seconds wondering what people think of me. No, you shouldn't, and I'll tell you why, because, in a million No, no, I listen. I don't care what people think of me. If I did, I wouldn't be doing this. Anybody who does this wouldn't be that impacted by I hope that people hear me and know that I'm I'm being sincere and that I really do want to help people and, you know, like, like, all that stuff, like, I hope they hear that. If they don't, there's nothing I can do about it. And I guess in that I don't care what they think of me, that's not why I'm thanking you. I'm thanking you because in a million fcking years, if you told me to write down how everyone intersects with you, Scott, when they listen to your podcast, you. Your answer never would have come up. And now I know that this answer is a real answer. I got to stop wondering what the rest of them are, because I'm never going to figure it out. So I am now done. I will never again wonder what people think of me or why they think it I had a person recently in a public setting stand up in front of people and bad mouth me in front a ton of people, and really just baseless stuff. They don't know me. They purport to they don't. This is not uncommon in my life, by the way, for people to run around pretending to know me and telling people things about me that are just not, not only they're not true, they've literally never met me before. And while, yeah, it's not a, I mean, making a podcast seems fun and but, but, like, so that happens. There's also, right now, someone standing in a Costco grabbing someone with a CGM going, you have to listen to Juicebox podcast that saved my life. So, like, you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both. Then you've got tutti and and Joe, and what was everyone else's name on the facts of life. 2d, Joe, Mrs. Garrett. Look at me. George Clooney was on there, but I don't know his name. There was the girl that rode the motors. That was Joe. I don't know anybody.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:10
I don't know I feel like it's probably way before my time.

Scott Benner 1:11:13
Oh yeah, you're young. You never watched the facts of life.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:16
No. Oh my goodness,

Scott Benner 1:11:18
a young George Clooney showed up later in episodes. Not the point. What a handsome man. Still, I

Speaker 1 1:11:24
find the older George Clooney much more attractive, as do

Scott Benner 1:11:28
I, although I'm straight and I'm not interested in having sex with him, but I do think he's getting better looking as he

Unknown Speaker 1:11:33
ages. He ages very well,

Scott Benner 1:11:35
absolutely. Should all hope for it now, not the point. Like Tom Selleck, sorry, no problem at all. You don't look at you there, there was, there was warmth in your voice there, yeah,

Cate 1:11:45
not felt, but yeah, no, because I interrupted you. So I know that you're supposed to apologize, but it's fine. I

Scott Benner 1:11:50
was gonna ask a different question. If Tom Selleck showed up right now and he's like, Yo, give me a roll, you'd be, yeah, or you'd be like, not only to touch on me, absolutely. Oh, Tyler. I'm so sorry. Okay,

Cate 1:12:00
Tyler knows like, like, Tom Selleck came out with a book in the last few months, whenever it was and like it was, like a full on, like I was describing the porn that I would have with Tom Selleck to Tyler in front of his book in a very public setting. So Tyler knows why

Scott Benner 1:12:19
that guy if Tom oko, hold on. Forget all that question. What if Tom Selleck dies? How are you going to feel? No way. Probably

Cate 1:12:26
the same. No, probably the same. Like, it would probably be like, well, there goes an attractive man, and then carry on with my life. I

Scott Benner 1:12:34
Yeah. I would think when they put Tom Selleck in the ground, the last thing to dissolve will be that mustache. I bet you it holds up to the very end. I bet she's a skeleton with a

Cate 1:12:42
it's better like we better see like when the if there is a zombie anything, I hope he's just a skeleton

Scott Benner 1:12:49
with his with a fucking absolutely listen how he

Cate 1:12:55
was never a firefighter. I have no idea. But before you let me go, because I know that this is getting long, I do want to say, I also want to confirm your views on abortion is actually how I think it should be. Okay?

Scott Benner 1:13:09
Well, great. Now you agree with me. Now everybody's definitely going to hate me, no,

Cate 1:13:13
but like, I that's what it's supposed to be that. But that is what pro choice is, right? It, it's at the end of the day, it's so that you should a woman should have autonomy over her own body. It should be her choice. Should you still feel like you're potentially killing something or that you you would want that life to continue and not be aborted? Absolutely, absolutely. But at the end of the day, should it be down to the woman's choice and whether or not that that happens? Absolutely that like that is the point. Nothing

Scott Benner 1:13:48
is as black and white as we would hope for the for it to be, so, whether it's abortion or something else, if you're taking a, if you're taking a black or white side on a, on a, on a topic, that's obviously more great multi dimensional than you're trying to make it out to be. You are. I don't care if it's politics or an argument between two people, or it's the idea about abortion or, you know, electric cars and gas cars, or anywhere in between, if you're taking a steadfast position on a multi faceted idea, as if it's not a multifaceted idea, you are willfully ignoring some aspects of the conversation, correct? Yeah. And so if you're pro choice or pro life, you are ignoring something. And I think an abortion, a pro choice person is is probably having to ignore the fact that I am ending a life. And a pro life person is ignoring the fact that not for nothing, Cayton, and I don't even mean this poorly, but even if I did, you wouldn't give a a person like you probably shouldn't have a baby. No, right? So there we go. Or

Cate 1:14:54
like a person in in poverty who can barely feed themselves probably shouldn't. Have a child, either might not

Scott Benner 1:15:01
be a good time to bring a life into the world.

Cate 1:15:02
You know what I mean? Like, and it sucks. It happens like, it sucks. And you shouldn't have that against you, that bit

Scott Benner 1:15:11
right there, right? Like, using that as an example, if I was a person in poverty and I had no way out, if I make a baby, it's going to blah, blah, blah. Like you can, you can see the, the possible trajectory. Now another person will come in and say, Well, you never know that baby could end up finding the cure for cancer or blah and and also, that's not unreal either. That's also true. And the point is, is that nothing's as simple as yes or no, and that's all, like, I know you got to pick a side because it feels like you need to pick a side because I don't know. That seems to be how we're all wired. Be on it. Be on a team, you know what I mean. But like, once you're on the team, you know what I mean, like, if you love the Baltimore Ravens, God bless you, but Ray Lewis might have killed that guy outside of the bar, you know what I mean. Like, also, I'd like to say I don't think Ray Lewis has ever murdered anybody, and I don't know anything, and I am certainly not. This is for entertainment purposes only, but, like, but stuff, but stuff that you've heard in the world where you're like, I don't know. I'm gonna choose to ignore that. Actually, you brought up Michael Jackson earlier. Let me tell you something. When I put on a Michael Jackson song, I willfully forget that he probably diddled those kids absolutely

Unknown Speaker 1:16:24
he's got snappy songs.

Speaker 2 1:16:26
God damn, some of those songs, some of those songs are so good. And I've heard, by the way, that Eric Clapton said some weird stuff. I literally didn't look into it because I don't want to ruin cream. Okay. Like,

Scott Benner 1:16:41
is he Canadian too, by the way, Clapton, you know, no,

Speaker 1 1:16:44
you know. I actually, I don't think so, but I honestly don't know. But I'm being serious.

Scott Benner 1:16:49
I know there's like, I know that somewhere in the world there's conversations that Eric Clapton has said or done something that one side of a political argument wouldn't like. I genuinely do not know what it is, and would never look into it, because cream was an awesome band, and I don't want it ruined for me. Okay, he's

Unknown Speaker 1:17:08
from the UK, by

Scott Benner 1:17:10
the way. Oh, you're right, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:12
Google is right, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:17:14
Do you see what I'm saying? Like, there's, that's me going, don't tell me all the facts, because I you know Michael Jackson is that's, yeah, I mean, I mean, honestly, what's that smooth, criminal, what a song. You know what? I mean, fantastic. I

Cate 1:17:30
I know it's like, it's on my baseball playlist. It's, it's a fantastic song. It's a great walk up song as well.

Scott Benner 1:17:37
There's no doubt my point is this, I don't care if it's abortion or whatever it is you want to talk about. It's it's not black and white, and we're all ignoring something to come to our own decisions. And that's not for nothing. I do think and be

Cate 1:17:51
able to live with them, like, at the end of the day, that's really what it is. And are

Scott Benner 1:17:55
you okay? Like, do you feel okay with your decision? I

Cate 1:17:57
know it was the right decision, but do I still have like, those lingering thoughts? Are they involved for more what I deprived Tyler of? Yes, like, absolutely, that you care about, but I know that it was the right decision, like I would if I had to do it again, I would do it again. I would never not do

Scott Benner 1:18:21
it. My last question, do you think you're mentally ill? Yes,

Cate 1:18:25
because it's, it's literally diagnosed on paper. So I mean, if you're like, actually looking at the thing, it would say that I had a mental illness, and it's called any social like, that would be there. So factually, yes. Do I think that we're all mentally ill in some way, shape or form? I yeah, I do. I do. I just think I'm a little bit more outside

Scott Benner 1:18:51
of what we expect and what we hope for, yeah, and

Cate 1:18:55
and I am more forthcoming with the information, whereas other people may find it taboo. I'm just more forthcoming with a conversation, so people find it more fascinating and more like a mental illness. But I don't know. I don't know

Scott Benner 1:19:09
if your doctor calls you tomorrow and says, Hey, Kate, found a pill going to make you feel like everybody else. No side effects. It's magic. You take it.

Cate 1:19:18
I would take it yes, because I've been on antidepressants before. I've been on medication before, that changes. That changes the way that your diseases, right? That you can say the same thing for Crohn's, like, it's, I was on an immunosuppressant. I have Crohn's. I was on an immunosuppressant completely. Was like, I didn't have Crohn's, right? So, like, I know what that is. But then you also have to consider that whilst there may not be any side effects in this perfect scenario, you are changing who you are, right? You're not technically genuine. Anymore, or

Scott Benner 1:20:00
is the Crohn's changing you and you're just putting it back? I'm

Cate 1:20:04
not, I'm not on immunosuppression anymore.

Scott Benner 1:20:07
My point is, if the medication is changing who you are, isn't it possible you already changed, and the medications putting you back to who you should have been, because insulin is doing that, right? Yeah,

Cate 1:20:17
yeah. With a lot of stuff to it. I suppose you could argue it in that. Do you know

Scott Benner 1:20:24
what this episode is going to be called, Kate, what the after dark? I'm going to call it after dark more Kate.

Cate 1:20:34
It's an interesting way to think. I, to be fair, I never thought about that on insulin. So that's probably going to be the nugget in my head for the rest of the day. You very much, Scott. But whatever is

Scott Benner 1:20:43
it okay with you if I do what I said about chat, G, P, T, and read it into the end, because you won't be able to hear it. Okay? I just realized I'm gonna pull up Arden's note or Arden's, um, I don't understand list because I've been writing stuff on the I don't understand list two, and I am this is people are not gonna like me, but I don't understand gaslighting like you don't. It feels weird to me that people think that you can say something to them that gaslights them. Oh, but that you're okay with you believe in gaslighting.

Cate 1:21:12
Quickly explain to me what gaslighting is. Again, no, okay, yeah, okay, never mind like, Oh, he's gaslighting me. Oh, so, so isn't it, when they're you're like, You're cheating on me, and you're like, No, I'm not like, I was right, doing blah, blah, blah, that's being gaslighted.

Scott Benner 1:21:29
Isn't it that feels like lying to me. Did it need a new word? Is

Cate 1:21:32
that not light? Yeah. Is it not lying? I

Scott Benner 1:21:35
put it on my list. Wait,

Unknown Speaker 1:21:37
wait on your list. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:21:38
I don't understand a lot of things. Where do you figure out all the I don't understand so much.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:45
I'm excited for Arden, yeah, oh, she's

Scott Benner 1:21:47
gonna be great. We're gonna do an entire, like, big series. And I told her, if people seem interested in it, I'll spin it off into its own podcast, absolutely.

Cate 1:21:55
Because, like, those are the things I find that really fascinating, too. That, like, I don't have a dad, YouTube pinging the fingers, or, like, I don't have a mom. And so it's these people that are like, Hey, this is how you change a tire. And I like, and how people talk in the comments is so fascinating to me. Yeah, like, they're like, and I like, I don't like my dad passed. So, like, I get it, I don't know how to look at foundation issues, like which I learned without them. I don't think if I learned it off a YouTube channel that I would be like super I would be leaving an emotional comment, obviously. So I find it interesting when people get really emotionally invested in in these, in these things that they don't know about and that they've learned I don't know. I think it's neat.

Scott Benner 1:22:40
I swear to God, this, this list is fascinating. It's like, I don't understand money, life insurance, fingernails, I don't fingernails. People who create something from nothing. What do blind people see? Why aren't there more car accidents? How come more asteroids don't hit the planet? Who decided this one, I thought was fascinating. Who decided when the first Monday was going to happen? It's

Unknown Speaker 1:23:03
true, a man did. And I was

Scott Benner 1:23:05
like, he

Speaker 1 1:23:06
also did a 31 day calendar. It was a man. It wasn't a woman. You can tell her that

Scott Benner 1:23:11
my son jumped in. Where does the gas at the gas station come from?

Cate 1:23:15
And why does it change prices five times a day? Tell him that he should put that on his list.

Scott Benner 1:23:21
Well, that's, that's economics, but he and so economics, I don't understand that at all, but, but he really meant, is it piped from somewhere, or is that there a tank in the ground? Like he didn't know. And here's one thing that my kids, I guarantee you, to save their own life, could not explain. Wi Fi,

Speaker 1 1:23:38
oh, so that's my business. That's interesting, fascinating. They

Scott Benner 1:23:42
for love or money. Couldn't tell you what Wi Fi is and how it works. They know what it does. They know why it's important to them. They do not know functionally, how it works. So anyway, those are some of the conversations, really, yeah, it's gonna be great.

Cate 1:23:55
So I would have thought that they would have known what, out of all the subjects that things like that they would know.

Scott Benner 1:24:02
No, they're like little morons. I can't wait to do this. It's gonna be fantastic. And being serious, I think it really highlights all the things that we expect, that other people know, that they have no idea about. But we run around. We run around projecting our own knowledge onto others all the time. Absolutely,

Unknown Speaker 1:24:20
absolutely, yeah, yes, yep.

Scott Benner 1:24:22
I will tell you that I used to think that I couldn't be successful at something, because if it was a thing that people were successful at, someone would be better at it than me like so why would I bother? There's obviously someone out there doing it better, and yet I made this thing. And generally speaking, nobody's knocked me off of this thing,

Cate 1:24:43
this thing. So do you have? Do you suffer from imposter syndrome? Then?

Scott Benner 1:24:47
No, I'm pretty confident. Now my ego is quite but when I was younger, when I was younger, I just assumed that if it was worth doing, someone had already. Done it better than I was going to do it. Okay, yeah, so, but now I know where I'm at, but I also have metrics and and feedback. Okay,

Cate 1:25:09
so it's, it's you don't have imposter syndrome, because the facts or your metrics prove that you shouldn't be an imposter that you are doing the thing the next

Scott Benner 1:25:19
closest diabetes podcast, to me, is a hobby at best, by downloads. And I'm sure they're doing really well, and they're probably great people, and like, I don't have anything against them. I'm just telling you that the amount of downloads that I do in a month versus what the next closest one does, I make them look like they don't have a podcast. Okay, you know what I'm saying. And so I confident. So there's confidence. It breathes with

Speaker 1 1:25:42
that. Yes, yeah, of course, are you, like, brushing your shoulders off? No, no,

Scott Benner 1:25:47
no, not at all. Like, I just, it's how it goes. Because, again, it's not black and white. There's 1000 things about me, and this thing I'm doing that put the podcast where it's at right, like, I listen. There's no one else. I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and tell you you are never again in the history of your life. Going to turn on a podcast that says it's about diabetes and have a type one come on and talk about their feelings about abortion. It ain't happening. So these,

Unknown Speaker 1:26:15
to be fair, we didn't even really talk

Scott Benner 1:26:17
about no we everyone knows how you feel, trust me. We got that all out completely. I just didn't want to spend 45 minutes asking you questions where you're like, No, don't care. Yeah, trust me. The way the conversation went was, I thought, bolstered the topic more than picking through the topic would have okay, if that makes sense. Anyway, cool. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. Don't even bother answering. I know you don't.

Speaker 1 1:26:50
Yeah, of course. Thanks. All right,

Scott Benner 1:26:53
hold on a second. All right, guys, it's later in the day, and I did exactly what I said I was going to do. I took the transcript of that exact conversation, I put it into chat. GPT four, oh, and I gave it this instruction. Read this podcast episode transcript, read it completely. The guest is named Cate. I want you to ignore her diagnosis of herself and listen to her describe her personality, then make a psychological assessment of her based on Kate's description of her personality, behaviors and emotions. Here is a psychological assessment of Kate lack of empathy. Kate consistently mentions that she does not feel empathy for others, even for those close to her, like her husband. This is a significant trait in understanding her psychological profile, impulsivity. Kate describes herself as highly impulsive, engaging in dangerous or risky behaviors for the thrill or sensation they provide. This is typical of impulsivity often seen in certain personality disorders, manipulative tendencies. Cate admits to being manipulative, indicating a strategic approach to interpersonal interactions, where she prioritizes, prioritizes her own needs and benefits over others, lack of consideration for consequence, Kate mentions not thinking about the consequences of her actions, which ties into her impulsivity and her sense of, excuse me, invulnerable, in vulnerability or optimism bias, deficient emotional responses. Kate describes her emotional responses as largely learned behaviors rather than genuine feelings. She mimics appropriate social reactions rather than feeling them authentically. Egocentric outlook. Kate often relates everything back to herself and her own experiences, showing a self centered perspective that underlies her interactions and decisions interesting, excuse me, interest in taboo topics. Cate is drawn to discussing taboo topics and finds it and finds pleasure in making people uncomfortable. This could be indicative of a desire to challenge social norms or an attempt to connect through shock value. Now here's the psychological assessment, anti social personality disorder, ASPD. Case, lack of empathy, impulsivity, manipulativeness and disregard for social norms strongly suggest traits associated with ASPD. This disorder is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for the rights of others, often manifesting in deceitful, manipulative and exploitive behaviors. Optimism bias. Kate exhibits a cognitive bias where she believes negative outcomes are less likely to happen to her. This contributes to her risk taking behavior and lack of concern for her consequences. Emotional detachment. Kate shows signs of emotional detachment where she is intellectually understanding, excuse me, where she intellectually understands emotions but does not experience them in a typical manner. This detachment can lead to difficulties in forming deep emotional bonds and maintaining long term relationships. Impacts on a relationship. Kate's relationship with her husband is. Complex. She acknowledges a different type of affection for her dogs than for her husband, and her interactions with him are often more transactional than emotional. Kate's lack of empathy and manipulative tendencies likely make social interactions challenging. She relies on learned behaviors to navigate social situations which can be perceived as insincere by others. Her personality profile suggests a significant presence of traits associated with anti social personality disorder marked by a lack of empathy, impulsivity, manipulativeness and a self centered approach to life. Her emotional detachment and reliance on learned social behaviors further complicate her interactions and relationships. Understanding these traits can help in developing strategies for managing her behaviors, improving her interpersonal relationships. Now, I didn't ask it this, but I'm thinking this right now, is her personality

Unknown Speaker 1:30:51
indicative

Scott Benner 1:30:54
of a specific trauma? What do you think kids a chance that something leads to something more often than not, they don't directly point to a specific trauma, but rather suggest a complex interplay of various factors, lack of empathy. A significant lack of empathy can sometimes result from early childhood experiences including neglect or emotional depredation, deprivation. However, Kate did not explicitly mention that impulsivity and risk taking, these traits can be linked to both genetic factors and environmental influences, while trauma, especially during formative years, can lead to increased impulsivity and risk taking behaviors as a coping mechanism. Kate does not provide clear evidence of a specific trauma cut event. It's very clear to make sure that it's it tells you like I'm guessing at this, manipulations as a defense mechanism can arise from environments where individuals learn to prioritize their own needs in response to unstable or unsafe surroundings. Trauma might contribute to this, but Kate did not indicate a history of manipulative behavior stemming from trauma. An emotional detachment can develop as a proactive response to trauma, particularly if an individual experiences overwhelming emotions they cannot process. Her description of her lack of genuine emotional response could suggest some form of emotional trauma, but again, she did not explicitly connect this to a specific event. Here it gives us Kate's own words on trauma. It says she mentions having trauma, but does not specifically, but not specific incidents that align directly with her personality traits. And Kate's own self diagnosis leans towards ASPD, which can develop due to a mix of genetic predisposition and environmental factors, including trauma. That's something nature versus nurture. Kate's anti social tendencies and lack of empathy could be influenced by genetic factors, while she does not specifically direct, specifically direct trauma, the development of her personality could be influenced by broader environmental factors, including potentially traumatic experiences, if she may not explicitly recognize or articulate them. Okay? Is there any data

Unknown Speaker 1:33:06
that indicates

Scott Benner 1:33:08
a GLP medication could help her? This is interesting, then I'm done. GLP medications, commonly used for diabetes management, have shown some interesting effects on mental health beyond their primary purpose. However, the data on their impact or personality traits or conditions like those described by Cadiz limited, here's a breakdown of what is known GLP medications. Some studies have indicated GLP medication, GLP one medication, might have a positive impact on mood disorders such as depression, anxiety. This could be due to the influence of GLP on the neuro inflammation, neuro inflammation and neuro plasticity. There have been anecdotal reports of some preliminary search research suggesting GLP medications might help with certain aspects of bipolar disorder. I mentioned that episode during this is what made me ask this, and then research is ongoing into the cognitive and behavioral effects of GLP one. There are indications that these medications might influence brain fluctuation functions related to reward, appetite and possibly even impulse control. There is no direct evidence or clinical trial data suggesting that a GLP one medication could treat ASPD. ASPD is primarily treated through psychotherapy, which medications sometimes use to address specific symptoms like aggression or CO occurring conditions such as depression or anxiety. Anyway, chat, G, P, T, baby, you can have a good conversation with it.

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