#1052 After Dark: Restaurateur

Nicole has type 1 diabetes, owns a restaurant and is here to tell her stories.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1052 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today I'll be speaking with Nicole. She's had type one diabetes since she was 21 months old and she's now over 40. Today we talk about owning a restaurant, drug and alcohol use, and much more. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician. Before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. You want to get five free travel packs in the year supply of vitamin D, use my link drink ag one.com/juice box because that's what you'll get with your first order at that link. Speaking of things you'll get 40% off at checkout with the offer code juice box. At cozy earth.com. You get a great insulin pump at Omni pod.com/juice box and amazing CGM at dexcom.com/juice box. As a matter of fact, when you use any of the links from the Juicebox Podcast, you're gonna get great stuff. And you'll be supporting the podcast. So give that stuff a look, would you? There's links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Omni pod. Go get your Omni pod five right now at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Today's show is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter contour next.com Ford slash juicebox. Get yourself an incredibly accurate an easy to use blood glucose meter. Get the contour next gen.

Nicole 1:59
My name is Nicole. I have been a type one diabetic since I was 21 months old. And I am about to be 40 this year. Wow. Yeah,

Scott Benner 2:10
not quite too. So 38 years about

Nicole 2:15
Yeah, yeah, goodness. Yeah, it was 38 years. It's been my really literally the whole life. I don't remember life before diabetes. No

Scott Benner 2:24
kidding. One thing nickeled try not to like, follow Yeah, just yeah, whatever that is that might be allowed chair or I'm not sure what you're doing right now. Also, interestingly enough, I was going to real quick do the math on what year it was when you were diagnosed? And then I realized I'm not 100% sure what year it is right now.

Nicole 2:45
I was diagnosed in 1985. Okay, wow. Yeah. My mom was pregnant with my sister. So my sister and I are exactly two years and two weeks apart. So I was diagnosed in July of 1985. And my mom was due with my sister. I think her due date was actually scheduled for the end of August. And yeah, then diabetes walked in and messed it up for

Scott Benner 3:14
you besides your sister, any other siblings?

Nicole 3:17
Nope. Just the just the sister. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:20
How about diabetes, autoimmune in your family.

Nicole 3:24
So my sister has Hashimotos. She was diagnosed few years ago. But as far as we know, no other autoimmune. My grandmother has had really terrible arthritis. I don't know whether it was rheumatoid or not. I don't. I can't remember if all of the arthritis is or autoimmune or if it's just the rheumatoid but anyhow, so she, but that's the only that's the only history that we have. Now, with that said, I didn't really know my dad's side of the family. So I mean, it might exist there. And we just were not familiar but

Scott Benner 4:00
yeah, okay. Yeah. Um, I don't think all arthritis is not on me. And I'm gonna look real quick. Yeah, I

Nicole 4:08
don't think that they are. I really thought just rheumatoid. But again, I don't know if what she had whether it was thought or not. Yeah, passed away a couple of years ago.

Scott Benner 4:15
I say, Yeah, this year says like, osteo. Excuse me. Osteoarthritis is not an autoimmune disease. Right. Okay. So, real quick before we move on your sister, do you think she had Hashimotos for much longer than she realized? Where do you think it came on?

Nicole 4:31
I think I think she probably had it for longer than she realized. My sister struggled a lot through high school and growing up with like, various, various issues. But she when she got married, she was trying to get pregnant and was having trouble conceiving when they did a bunch of tests on or to see what the issues were Hashimotos popped up as, as one of the problems so yeah, yeah, I

Scott Benner 4:56
don't need you to tell me a lot. I'm not asking you to tell me about I was just interested in About Oh, that's great. Yeah,

Nicole 5:01
I think she's probably had it for a long time. But we really kind of went undiagnosed and not not familiar.

Scott Benner 5:07
So what I mean, your, your note to me is, is simple and short. So I'm wondering what made you want to come on the podcast?

Nicole 5:17
Well, so like I said, I've been listening to you for a really long time, like, I want to say, probably pretty close to the beginning. I don't know how I stumbled upon your podcast, but I really have been listening to it for a long, long time. I'm part of the Facebook page. And you had reached out on Facebook at one point trying to find some people to do after dark episodes. So that's kind of what I volunteered with. I have a few, like, topics that I think might be relevant to an after dark, but that's kind of why I reached out to you.

Scott Benner 5:50
Well, Nicole, listen, yeah, thank you for for responding. When I did that. I have to tell you. I used to have trouble getting after dark episodes in the beginning, right? It was like, Hey, can somebody and people were just like, you know, every once in a while you get somebody to jump up in the butt anymore? No trouble. I don't think

Nicole 6:12
the taboo came out of it. Because you were doing them enough. I imagine that people got less afraid of talking about some of the subjects that you were discussing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 6:21
Well, the problem ended up being is that I put the call out thinking I was still in the same position. And now I've got I've got 25 recordings of people who like, you know, at some point in their conversations, had my life said dumpster fire.

Nicole 6:36
Well, and I think leading up to this call as well, I really went I had initially messaged you saying, Oh, we could do an after dark. I had some topics I thought were relevant and that we could discuss. But it doesn't need to be that way either. I mean, again, I've been doing this for a long time. So there's some I mean, lots of topics that we can talk about that are necessarily after dark.

Scott Benner 7:00
Sure. Sure. Well, yeah. So let's just go and I mean, we don't have to, like point ourselves in one direction. Although now everyone listening is like, well, whoa,

Nicole 7:08
what's, what's her secret? What does she want to talk about?

Scott Benner 7:11
Maybe we'll get to it. But you know, I've never done this before. But because you've been listening for so long. I'm gonna let you lead the way. What do you want to tell?

Nicole 7:21
Oh, yeah, I think I've been kind of through the thick and thin of it. I mean, I know you have a lot of a lot of people on as well that have been in this in this disease for a long time. And I wanted to kind of, you know, I guess, share my story and my version of it. Like I said, I was diagnosed at 21 months old, there was no life before diabetes, it was just always what I did. My family's life revolved around diabetes as well. So my sister lived like a diabetic, she, she there was no sugar. When we went trick or treating as kids, obviously, we would both collect whatever candy we could get. And then my mom would buy the candy off of us. So it's not like my sister was like, living like a normal kid with, you know, a bunch of sugar lying around, she could just do whatever she wanted. She really looked like a diabetic too, which is kind of funny. And I, you know, when I, I'm a part of a lot of different Facebook groups for type ones. And I think sometimes I give, you know, suggestions of things that my mom did, growing up that I thought were really kind of creative and wonderful. And then I think treating the whole house like we all had the disease was was a nice way of dealing with it. I never felt ashamed of diabetes. It was never an embarrassing point for me. All the kids at my school knew, and they all knew what to do in the event that something bad happened.

Scott Benner 8:50
Really how love the teachers, your mom, did your mom, like come into the school and explain that everybody?

Nicole 8:55
Yeah, yeah. My mom was very she was very present at the school. So I actually went to a little tiny country school. I grew up almost across the street from the school, but it was in the country and on a pretty busy highway. So we had to be bused in or drove in. And my mom did a lot of my mom was a stay at home mom when I was a kid. So she went to a lot of the, you know, she would volunteer for recess to be one of the I forget what they were called the parents that like walked around and made sure the kids were misbehaving or whatever. She became on all the field trips, she did all of those things. So yeah, she was she was very present. And then, before the school year started, she made a point of sitting down with every teacher and talking to them about what to expect and I mean, I'm in Canada. I don't know if I mentioned that at the beginning. But so our system is a little bit different up here. We don't have school nurses or whatever. But anyway, so she always made a point of being present at the school and I just again, I really don't think that it was ever like something that I shied away from. Everybody just knew. Again, it was a tiny school. So, the kids I went to school with in kindergarten were the same kids I went to school with in grade six, like, there wasn't a lot of turnover. And, you know, they all just, they were familiar. They knew. They knew when does

Scott Benner 10:11
that ever mean? Did that ever come into play? Like, did a child ever help you or I had

Nicole 10:16
a, I passed out one time at school. So like I said, I was diagnosed in 85. And when I was first diagnosed, we were on the, you know, kind of two needles a day. And he Mulan and our and we were very scheduled. It was like, breakfast at 7am. lunch at noon, dinner at 530. There was no, if you were 15 minutes late for any of those things, you know, it was going to be a problem. And so I remember one time, I had joined the school choir was on my way to choir practice at lunch, and I had decided to skip my lunch until after choir was done. And so we were walking to choir practice, and I passed out on the way down the hall. And a friend of mine was behind me. So she she realized that I was fainting, and she put her arms out, caught me and dragged me down to the principal's office. And when they got there, they just said Nicole passed out to help her. So they I mean, obviously the principal's office had everything that they needed. But yeah, I mean, the kids were giving me sugar or anything, but it also, if I needed to excuse myself in class by the teachers, or let me go to the bathroom whenever I wanted to. I was allowed to have sugar at my desk if I wanted to, you know, and everybody just knew it's not like they helped. But they also didn't make a big deal out of it. If I if I needed something.

Scott Benner 11:36
I see. Being from Canada, does that change how the healthcare system works for you?

Nicole 11:40
Well, yeah, so I am in Ontario specifically. And we have, obviously good health health coverage here. And when I was young, I was always on my parent's health care plan as well. So you know, hospital visits, things like that were never an issue getting supplies access to supplies were never an issue, it just was generally covered, became a bit of a problem. When it came time to go on the pump. I went on the pump at 18. So I mean, that's going back again, 20 years ago, I was probably pretty early, one of the early adopters of an insulin pump. At that point, I remember it being a little bit tricky, trying to figure out which company was going to cover what and you had to apply for one program to cover some of your you know, one of your insurance plans with cover some of the supplies and some of them were covered in a different way. So I mean, it's still a bit of a challenge to figure out how you're going to get your supplies covered. But I mean, all of my supplies get paid for I don't pay for anything out of pocket.

Scott Benner 12:44
It's different province to province, I guess I should say. I should probably say like province, but like from province to province. It's different, right?

Nicole 12:51
Yes, exactly. Yeah. So Ontario has a pretty good, a pretty good health care plan. I think Alberta is up there with one of the better ones. They're pretty advanced in terms of what gets covered by the government. And then what gets covered privately as well.

Scott Benner 13:07
Do you recall what your first pump was? What brand it was? Yeah, I've

Nicole 13:10
never moved from Medtronic. I've been on Medtronic the whole time.

Scott Benner 13:13
Okay. Oh, all right. So yeah.

Nicole 13:15
So when I was young, I remember when it was time for a pump. You know, I was, I was not a good diabetic. When I was in high school, I did a lot of, you know, lying and sneaking food and all of that stuff. I wasn't good at it. And I remember going to the doctor's office, and the doctor had said, my mom had said to him at that point, I couldn't tell you what my agencies were, but I know they were bad. And I remember my mom saying to him, you know, what, what do you suggest we do? Like I'm at a loss. I don't know what else to do. And he kind of threw his hands up in the air. And he's like, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. She just she's kind of beyond help. And my mom said, Well, that's not an option. We're not just gonna give up. She said, I've been reading a lot about these insulin pumps. What do you think about that? And he said, Oh, no, they're useless waste of time. Don't even bother. My mom again was like, that's also not good enough. So she switched it and knows immediately we went to find an endocrinologist that believed in insulin pumps and I was transferred to a program where they very quickly put me on a put me on the pump. So at the time, I think they had Medtronic animus and there was a third one, I can't remember what it was. I think Medtronic is the only one still hanging around. But anyway, I went on Medtronic right away. And and I've never switched. You said

Scott Benner 14:38
something a minute ago. I want to ask you about Yeah, I hear a lot of like, a lot of adults use this phrase. Like I wasn't a good diabetic, right. When you say that? I do you mean good. Like good at it. We're good. We're good. Like your intentions for it. That makes sense.

Nicole 14:55
Like yeah, it does me i Yeah. Again, I think about that the clinic that I was And there was there were good diabetics, and there were bad diabetics. And it was there was always sort of this, like, if you didn't test your blood sugar's enough, if you didn't, you know, do your injections on time, if you there was lots of reasons why they would kind of say you're, you know, you're being bad. I think there was a bit of shame to it.

Scott Benner 15:19
Yeah, a lot. It's what it sounds like. But it's the sort of it's the things. So that's the

Nicole 15:23
thing. It's the actionable items, I was always, you know, I It's not like I was wildly out of control. But sometimes I would forget to test sometimes I would eat and forget to give insulin, you know, things like that I wasn't great at carb counting. So there was lots of things that I think I felt like I was being bad at. And when we switched to the other clinic, I remember going in and seeing this doctor for the first time and we sat down and I sat in the office and I kind of cried, I was like, I know that I'm bad. And I'm sorry for being bad. And I just I don't know how to be better.

Scott Benner 16:02
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Nicole 18:19
And she looked at me and she goes, honey, it's not your fault it if you're not having good blood sugars, or if your agency isn't right, you have to understand that there's a whole team behind you. And it's all of our faults. We're not doing our jobs either. Don't blame yourself for it. And it was the first time anybody had ever been

Scott Benner 18:37
shared the responsibility with you. Yeah, exactly. And at that point,

Nicole 18:40
I was 18 I'd spent almost my whole life being told that I was bad at it.

Scott Benner 18:46
No, you're fine. What I was gonna say is that your first doctor was bad at it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you're following the lead, right? If you're being coached and your coach isn't good, and so your your results are what I mean, it's, it's like eating right? What do they say? Like you are what you eat, right? So he's, he's the food you're eating his information and you're getting, you know, stomach cramps and, and bloating. And that's just because he sucks. So so. So when you move to this other person, and you open up to them, and they they respond by by sharing the blame, or the burden, I guess, honestly, do you make a shift there

Nicole 19:27
that at that point, then I went on to that they got me right away onto the pump. And that was a huge game changer for me. And I did I became very interested in what my blood sugar's were I got interested in keeping good notes. And I just Yeah, I did. I took much more of an interest to it. And I just it there wasn't again, there wasn't any shame anymore. So I did spend a lot of time as a kid. Like I said to If I forgot to test sometimes I would just fill in the numbers or fill in the blanks, you know, I'd be getting ready to go to clinic and I would bring out my chart with all of my blood sugar's written on it, and it would, and they'd have a bunch of holes. And I would just fill them in. Like, I think today, I must have been 5.6. Just put in numbers, that sounded good. And that made me feel good. The doctors obviously knew better, I'm sure they're looking at my blood sugar's going, there's no way you're running a whatever, a one C, and you're saying that you're five all the time?

Scott Benner 20:29
Yeah. But so, you know, it's just, I know that we think that our lives are this like, snowflake, you know, and we're making all these decisions and shaping ourselves, etc. But when you're kids, even when you're an adult, like you are shaped by the things around you, the, you know, the input that comes from other people, expectations that are set, you know, milestones, following through like that stuff, like someone easily could have set different expectations for you. Now, I don't know that it doesn't mean you would have reached them. Because you might not have been getting good, you know, advice from your physician. But at least it doesn't take that much to set someone up with a reasonable expectation and a reasonable plan, and let them see even a reasonable amount of success so that they can they can believe in those things, and then continue to apply them and multiply. And yeah, it just it's kind of obvious need to hear you talk about it. Not neat. Because it was because it was your life, but But it's interesting to hear you talk about it like how like a simple little thing like that. And not for anyone listening like Not, not like unreasonable expectations, like every test has to be 100. And you need to be taller and prettier and faster, like not all that just within your own thing in your own. Yeah,

Nicole 21:55
yes, let's make this attainable. Let's try for something attainable. And yeah, I spent a lot of time feeling like it. I couldn't reach their goals. They were just impossible. They felt so far away. And so at some point, you kind of go, Well, why bother? Yeah, and I'm never gonna get there.

Scott Benner 22:13
Honestly, thank God for your mom's reaction. Because his the new goal that the first doctor set for you was very attainable, which was failure failure. He was he was telling you give up. Yeah, your dad. Oh, you easily could have meant that. You don't I mean, and she steps up and says we're not going to do that.

Nicole 22:31
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank God for my mom was right, because she spent she did she was she really pushed? She was like, again, that answer is not good enough. And I'll go find somebody who has the answer I'm looking for.

Scott Benner 22:43
Where do you think she What do you think she learned that? What did she wrestle polar bears professionally? I don't know, trout fishermen. But with that she did she catch trout right out of the river. But they're so funny.

Nicole 22:56
She, again, when I think back, she was so forward thinking in a lot of her ways. And, you know, she was really, like, I had diabetes through the 80s and early 90s. She had a pager. So if things went, if things went crazy while I was at school, they could page her, which the only people that had pagers back then were doctors and drug dealers

Scott Benner 23:18
and drug dealers. That's exactly my mom. And my mom,

Nicole 23:21
she carried a pager around. Again, I said that thing about the Halloween. I mean, that was very different. I just, I think for her, she always just, you had a podcast a couple of weeks ago that I listened to where they talked about just this idea of like, not being held back, like diabetes wasn't going to hold me back. And I think she just always felt like that, like, this will just be as normal as possible. And we'll be, we'll all be as normal as possible. But yeah, but at the same time, healthcare is critically important. And so we'll do whatever we have to do in order to make sure she's healthy.

Scott Benner 23:57
Yeah. And I guess the fully pack in the context like you, you were diagnosed at a time where management was not terrific. Like, you know, the options weren't really like, yeah, nearly what they are now, obviously, and maybe for the doctor, was he an older man? Do you remember?

Nicole 24:13
Yeah, he was. Yeah, I had a my first endo was actually a really compassionate lovely man. But he ended up I think, moving to a moving to a different job. I think he was moved somewhere out west to work at a at a university or something out there. Anyhow, so I ended up with this new doctor and he came along while I was in high school. So I'd been at that point, I'd had diabetes for quite a long time. And but yeah, he was an older man. In fact, shortly after I left from that clinic and found a new Endo. I heard that he had passed away so he wasn't he was much older and didn't have a very again forward thinking mentality,

Scott Benner 24:53
but was at least kind. Exactly yeah, yes. Yeah, little kindness doesn't hurt to call you No, no. No. How you doing? You said you were nervous at the beginning isn't getting better?

Nicole 25:04
Yeah, thank you good. Is it good? Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:06
you're doing great. Okay, so, I mean, not that I need this to be like after dark material, but I feel like there's a story in here and it's part of it. And you feel more comfortable. It's interesting. When you were being more like just anecdotal and telling a bigger story, you wandered. But when you start talking about details, you're much more focused. So I feel I feel like we want to, like, do that, like, kind of go that way. So you've, you make it through, you know, make it through the first doctor. Next doctor helps you get the pump. And how old were you when you got the pump?

Nicole 25:43

18. I was 18 years old. I remember, just towards the end of high school,

Scott Benner 25:47
and you were leaving high school with what intentions?

Nicole 25:51
So I was off to university, I was ready to go, I had been working at a part time job that I really loved. And when I was getting ready to leave, he said to me, Well, so what are your plans for the future? What do you want to do with your life? And I said, Oh, God, I have no idea. And he said, Well, I said, to be honest, I'd like to own your he was a bakery I worked at I said one day, I want to own your bakery. And he goes, Well, you know what, the University of Guelph has a really great hospitality program. Why don't you get into that? And one day, come back and we'll talk. And so I did. So I went to a Hospitality and Tourism Program. It's a university degree anyway.

Scott Benner 26:30
Did you come back and, and vicious takeovers Miss Baker?

Nicole 26:38
Back. As far as I know, he still owns it. It's still there. It's been it's forever.

Scott Benner 26:45
So when you head off to this, when you head off to university with your new pump and your diet and your new diabetes, like ideas, how do you make How do you make out through those years?

Nicole 26:57
Um, so I think that's where I was going to talk about some of the kind of, you know, I guess after dark topics that we were going to talk about my willingness, I guess, to play around with alcohol, for sure. It was, I was not afraid of what was going to happen if I drank too much if I, you know, passed out from alcohol it. When I went into university, I was ready to have some fun. I never played with drugs. It was never on my list of things to do. I smoked a bit of pot, but that was about it. And I didn't generally like the person I became when I smoked weed. So I had stopped but

Scott Benner 27:35
who did you become when you smoked weed? Oh, so that was a federally poll. That was a very fun noise. You went you wouldn't? Let me tell you.

Nicole 27:51
I am generally a very kind and very patient. Calm, friendly. I always want people to be happier. Tell me, you know, and I would turn into the Hulk. It was I would rage I would get so angry. And you know, I couldn't stand my friends that were giggling. They'd be smoking pot. You know how they get the giggles and I would be like, shut up. I hated life. Why are you laughing so much? Nothing is funny. I just I would rage and I did it a few times. And I thought I don't like this version of me. I'm not doing I

Scott Benner 28:25
can't believe your friends like you did it again.

Nicole 28:28
I know. Because they were giggly and high. They had a good time with it. They realized how upset it made me

Scott Benner 28:35
it made you so you. So they lost their inhibitions in one way, but you lost yours in a different way.

Nicole 28:41
I couldn't be nice anymore.

Scott Benner 28:44
So here are so here's my question, Nicole. Are you nice? Or do you have a lot of rage inside of you? And that helped you let it out?

Nicole 28:52
Oh, yeah, I have a lot of rage inside of me. I'm generally I you know, wake up most days at 100 and have to kind of call myself down. I don't know why I am I'm generally a pretty angry person. But I yeah, maybe that's it. It just exposed.

Scott Benner 29:11
What was your I didn't like this is what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking like you, you're relaxed. You're like, well, now I don't have to pretend to like these modes

Nicole 29:23
very live a very lonely life.

Scott Benner 29:29
So what is there something you can point to in your life that made you angry?

Nicole 29:34
No, I really, I don't know. I don't think that there's anything specific specific. No, no, I had a pretty I had a pretty normal childhood. Like, my parents were together until they split up when I was maybe 13. Like I said little country school knew I had lots of friends. Very popular. I there was nothing that attributed to the rage. I'm not really sure where it came from. So he Yeah, I think

Scott Benner 30:01
as an adult, you still have it.

Nicole 30:05
Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 30:07
Is there anything you do to try to like, let the pressure off once in a while?

Nicole 30:12
Yes and no, like I'm trying now to do. So like I said, I love listening to your podcasts. There's a bunch that I listened to including a bunch on how to overcome some of those things. So just, you know, journaling and things like that. I play around with

Scott Benner 30:30
it's not it's not anxiety, right, Nicole? It's just you have a low tolerance for

Nicole 30:36
Ah, yeah, I do it which is funny because again, like, I have a lot of people say like, you're the most patient person I've ever met. Like, you have such a you have you let people walk all over you and you let it you know, it takes a lot to finally make me explode. But when I do I go once I explode, I really go. Okay, let's

Scott Benner 31:00
let me ask you a couple of questions. Have you ever had your thyroid checked?

Nicole 31:04
Yeah, I'm on thyroid medication. I

Scott Benner 31:06
am. What's your TSH? Do? You know?

Nicole 31:08
I think the last one was two. I had my bloodwork done back in.

Scott Benner 31:13
Good. Good, good, good. Religion. None, none. Little, little interesting. Hold on a second. Did anything happen in your life that was traumatic, even to another person in your family that you wish wouldn't have happened? Car accident, like anything?

Nicole 31:32
No, nothing, nothing like that. I think some of maybe some of my trauma again comes back to the diabetes, you know, as much as I say, so I suffered from a lot of really bad low blood sugars when I was a kid. I don't think I've ever heard you interview a person. That hallucinated with Lowe's. I don't know if you have but you are one of them. I full blown hallucinations with a low blood sugar like so as

Scott Benner 31:58
you describe that to me, please.

Nicole 32:00
So I don't know. They must have been seizures. i We didn't call them seizures. We called them reactions. They were generally middle of the night when I listened to your episode with Arden kind of describing her her seizure and the shifting the room kind of the jumping, I think she called it. For me, it was always the shifting. So I could, the floor would suddenly shift and I'd feel kind of unattached or, you know, off balance. Yeah. And that but a lot of times I would wake up in the night with these reactions, which were like I said, full blown hallucination. So I would start to see things in the, in the bedroom. And, like terrifying things. As a kid, I don't know how you describe them, like monsters and snakes and bugs and all the things that you're afraid of, and they would all be in my bedroom. And I would start to scream and cry, of course. And my parents would read in and they would also be these horrible creatures, you know, like terrifying monsters are covered in bugs covered in snakes, I just remember so many times they would come in and they would have to try to you know, get me sugar and whatever way they could, but without seeing them. You know, I couldn't look at them because they were so terrifying. But they had to, they had to grab me and hold me down to get generally they did corn syrup. That's what they would use to get in my mouth because at least then some of it would be absorbed through your cheeks, my cheeks and then I mean corn syrup was less likely to be spit everywhere. Like it's kind of hard to spit out syrup. But it was you know, thick and when went right in. So anyways, but there was a lot of hallucinations. My mom used to tell the story about one time she came in and the room was full of. According to me, the room was full of flies. There were flies everywhere. So she grabbed my she sat me down on her lap, and she shoved my head over her shoulder so I couldn't see her face anymore. And my dad was on the other side, jamming the corn syrup in. And then they waited a little bit and my twitching slowed down and they realized that it was probably over so they kind of pulled me back so I could look at at my mom again. And I looked at her face that I slapped her. Which one was that for? And I said there was a bug on your face. She still had a fly on her face according I mean, she did it but that's what I saw was this. Did you ever

Scott Benner 34:23
did you ever hear your parents say to each other? Oh, great thing we had kids. What a decision.

Nicole 34:31
I can't imagine being my poor mother being pregnant with the second one going. I think we made a we made a mistake.

Scott Benner 34:39
We made a mistake. Can low blood sugar cause psychosis? It is well known that hypoglycemia can lead to psychiatric symptoms ranging from delirium and confusion states of psychosis. So that's not unusual, but you're right. I've never heard anybody talk about it.

Nicole 34:57
Yeah. And I thought that it was very common, but the more I listened to your show, the more I realized that people just people that wasn't normal.

Scott Benner 35:07
Were they're not admitting to it in a call,

Nicole 35:09
or they're not talking about it. Maybe they don't have any memories of it. But it was very scary as a kid, it

Scott Benner 35:13
was very, very Yeah. Listen, I didn't I don't have diabetes. But soon after my parents, like split up, I was probably in my early teens, like 1314 around there. And I would have a reoccurring nightmare that a giant talking Spider was up in the corner of my room, and it would tell me it was going to kill my parents. And one night, I got out of bed and felt like I had gone downstairs, like to use the bathroom. And I was in the bathroom. And I thought I was awake. And but the Spider was still there. Right? And then I woke myself up and it was gone. So I somehow like I somehow in a dream move through the house and I used to I did sleep walk a little when I was a kid. I don't do it anymore, actually. But I I wonder, like looking back on that I think I might have slept walk to the bathroom, and then continue the dream continued. And then when I woke up, it was over. But so anyway, big spider, not flies, but I'm with you. Yeah,

Nicole 36:19
it was. Yeah, it was always and I mean, again, they changed it. It changed. It wasn't always flies or bugs. It was like, sometimes they were monsters. And my parents would come in as these big like hairy looking monsters, you know, with big teeth, and they'd be growling at me as they were rushing towards me to try to take care of me. Oh,

Scott Benner 36:38
my God, that's well, that's okay. So let's call that traumatic. Yeah.

Nicole 36:44
I mean, I had a, and I mean, there was a lot of incidents of that when I was little, and they obviously slowed down as I got older and things got better. And I was able to control things a little bit more. But the last time I had a seizure, I was six I was while I was 15. It was just before my 16th birthday, and I had woken up in the morning and I went into take a shower. And I hadn't bothered testing my blood sugar's yet because I was, you know, not worried about it. Anyhow, I got up I took the shower, I got out of the shower. I remember standing there in the bathroom. And when I was in high school, like lots of the kids were candy necklaces, remember candy necklaces, of course. And so my sister used to wear them to school. So she had a couple of them sitting on the counter and at that point I realized like should I think I'm low so I started eating through her candy necklace and it didn't I didn't get there fast enough. I I've passed out and see Easton. Anyway, that that one again scared me for a long time that I was really terrified about going low for night and going low early in the morning. And so oftentimes I would run my blood sugar's higher because I didn't want all that

Scott Benner 37:56
to happen. Yeah. Hey, I have to ask you the kid was wearing the candy necklace. Yeah, she used to wear them and you wouldn't add her to like a zombie to get to it. No,

Nicole 38:06
she wasn't wearing Oh in the morning so she's like taking it off to go to bed and they were just sitting on the bathroom counter heard I shared a bathroom

Scott Benner 38:14
I was had a beautiful picture in my head of you like basically be like brains and coming at her like kids like why am I friends with Nicole feel way better story? Yeah, if you want to retell it where she's wearing the necklace I mean I'm okay with it.

Nicole 38:30
I'm naked fresh out of the shower and stumbling out or going give me your necklace your necklace

Scott Benner 38:34
that's terrible. Oh my god so you had your blood sugar was bouncing then? Cuz you don't you don't you didn't have low Awan it's not like you got low a lot because you were keeping some like, like the stability at a lower number. So you were jumping up and jumping down constantly. Yeah, yeah. What kind of food did you eat back then?

Nicole 38:54
Anything and everything there was never a limitation. I mean that's not true. That's not true at all. When I was young we did we were on the My parents were allowed to give me like I was allowed to starches and two fruits and one protein at dinner say something like that. And they knew that a starch was like a piece of bread. One starch was a half a cup of potatoes they so they it was carb counting but not really. I mean we weren't looking at the numbers but we were looking at the values of food and but I was allowed to eat whatever I wanted. We were restricted in terms of quantities. And I was like I said restricted in terms of meal times at at breakfast, lunch and dinner I could eat whatever fell within those values. Outside of that I wasn't allowed to snack unless it was kind of free foods. So then I did a lot of like lots of proteins. My My mom always had like, cheese sticks or you know coming home from school we would eat Cheese or like pepper rats or you know, different smoked meat, things like that there was always like meats and cheeses that we would snack on. But that was the snack you couldn't do with crackers because crackers had carbs and carbs would mess it up.

Scott Benner 40:13
Yeah, Arden loves to. Like she hasn't done this in a while because she's in school. But there are times when she'll put together a plate looks like she's at a at a party by herself. It has grapes and cheese and crackers and pepperoni. Stuff like that. Yeah, she just disappears with it. And sure coutries. Exactly. In her bedroom. Very, very fancy. Although I don't know how fancy it is. I think the crackers are rats. But that's not right, by the way, are not easy to Bolus for when you take the crackers and then the grapes. And then add the protein and the cheese. It's a it's a task to Bolus. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, actually,

Nicole 40:50
well, at the time. I mean, we didn't really we understood the like I said the values of food, but we didn't understand how they all work together. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, even as a kid, I was allowed to eat pizza. But I don't remember how it affected me or anything. Like I

Scott Benner 41:07
actually have a recording coming up in I think it'll be out in April. It's with a big stick a health influencer, who like normally, um, I don't know, like, I don't know much about it. But a couple of listeners were like, hey, look, this lady's talking about food impacts. And she's wearing like a glucose monitor. And she doesn't have diabetes, but she's looking at the impacts of different foods and talking about about them. Now in her context. She's talking about how to eat them in certain orders where it benefits your body. But I thought, this will be interesting. Like she's got she's got this perspective. And yet, she's not that she doesn't have diabetes. So like, I'm like, I'm gonna ask her to be on so she's she's going to come on, we're going to talk about your state. Yeah, about that.

Nicole 41:52
Well, and I think, like, I don't really limit what I eat. Now, either. There's a lot of foods I just can't be bothered with, because I don't I don't know how to Bolus for them. And I don't want to find out. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah, we had a party. So I own a restaurant. We had a party there a few weeks ago, where at the end of it, they they came up to me, and you know, thanks so much for having us. And here we thought you'd like one of the cupcakes that we had made. And I was like, Oh, thank you so much. And I kind of left it on the on the counter. And when my on one of the servers came in, I said, Oh, if you want that cupcake, go ahead. I won't be eating it. He was like, Yeah, I guess it would pretty much kill you, wouldn't it? And I was like, Well, no, it won't kill me. But I'll be honest, I don't even know where to begin.

Scott Benner 42:38
might ruin the next three or four hours.

Nicole 42:41
Like, it might not kill me. But I said, Okay, for fun. Tell me how many carbohydrates are in this cupcake? And he's like, I don't know. 95? And I'm like, great. I would have maybe guessed 40. So yeah, you probably would have killed me.

Scott Benner 42:56
Well, yeah, no, I take your point. Like some of them are, it feels a little unknowable. Like, especially when someone just hands you something you have no context, like,

Nicole 43:04
here it is. Okay, and I just yeah, you're right. I think there's a lot of times, I just can't be bothered with the headache of trying to figure it out.

Scott Benner 43:10
I think interesting, too, like a cupcake is an example. It could hit. It's gonna say something that's gonna sound opposite, but it could hit less than the carbs indicate. Like, if you ever had a situation like that, where you like, look something up, and you're like, This is what is this 100 carbs for this. And, and then you later realize that it only hit like it was 50 or, or something like that. And it does happen. You know,

Nicole 43:37
it happens a lot. And so my, my partner now is a as a chef, and so he does a lot of I mean, I like a queen at home. But anyhow, he made Detroit style pizza the other day, which is that big, thick, heavy crust. And it was so delicious. But I looked at it and I was like, Oh my God, I don't even know where to start. So I Bolus for it. And I had such a beautiful straight line. And I was so proud and so happy. And I went in. I have a good friend of mine who's a type one. And so I was telling them the story and his girlfriend said, well, for curiosity sake. You know, how much did you Bolus so they said, Well, I looked at it. I thought it was probably 40 grams. I was

Scott Benner 44:21
gonna say 40 for a piece of square right? About 65

Nicole 44:27
and 40 was just beautiful and perfect. Nice. I said usually when I eat pizza I'm I Bolus for about 25 grams of carbs per slice. And she said that's so funny because the the guy the her partner, he he generally Bolus is 40 grams of carbs per slice. And then I laughed. I said, I wonder which one of us is right, because we're both Oh, which one of us is right in terms of the number. One of us is right in terms of our car in terms of our ratios? Which one of us has got it here?

Scott Benner 44:58
Well, that's such a sale. The end point really Nicole, because what's right is

Nicole 45:03
what works? Well, exactly. Yeah. And if both of us are hitting straight lines, then does it matter?

Scott Benner 45:10
Not at all. Literally not at all. Oh, so yeah, it's exciting to hear somebody talking about that way. Because it because for the people listening, it doesn't matter. If if this thing, whatever you're eating is 10 carbs, but it hits you like it's 15. And it hits somebody else. Like it's eight and it hits somebody else. Like it's 20 Well, then that's what it is. Right? You know, and, and fighting reality by pointing at a number is, I think part of how people make themselves cuckoo with all this. Right? Yeah. So all right, anyway,

Nicole 45:43
yeah, I had, I had an appointment last week with a new nurse. So I went on the new Medtronic pump about a year ago. So it's got it's the full closed loop with the CGM and everything. They're all connected. The Medtronic 770. So and then the nurse that I was meeting with left the practice, and they never reassigned me to another one. So I went a long time without seeing anybody, and they call me and they said, Oh, we've got a Medtronic rep in did you want to come in and meet with us? And I said, Yeah, sure. That'd be great, actually. So I went, I went in and met with them. And at one point, she, she was looking at something I forget what she was what she was pointing out, and she said, your you know, your numbers are great. Your time and range is fabulous. If you're striving for perfection, here's where I would maybe adjust it. And I said, Yeah, I get it. And her and I got into a bit of an argument. Oh, that's what it was over. I said, sometimes for dinner, I might not Bolus, the right amount. Like let's say I look at food. And I think, oh, this could be between 30 and 35 grams of carbs. I think I'll Bolus 30 today because I don't want to go low later. And she was like, that's, that's not the right way to do it. You Bolus for what is in it? I was like, Well, yeah, that's fine and good. But sometimes I don't want to go low later. And she said to me, she's like, your, all of your problems are purely psychological. You're I mean, you could be you could be wonderful. If if you stop letting your brain make the decisions. You know what I mean? Is that

Scott Benner 47:15
because you don't get it? Yeah. Is that because you don't actually get low later, you just are afraid you're going to? Yeah, yeah, from when you were younger? You should, you should have told her listen, if I get low, you're gonna turn into the Abominable Snowman. And there's gonna be worm scary. There's gonna be worms coming out of your nose. And I just can't do that anymore. But so so you really are afraid of the insulin a little bit still?

Nicole 47:45
Very much so that I'm, I'm very, very afraid of insulin yet. But not on basic. Very, very. I'm aggressive. And I have, and I have good control. But I yeah, there's I'm still afraid of the lows. I really am. I'm afraid of. I think I'm afraid of not waking up from a low.

Scott Benner 48:04
Well, yeah, yeah. Listen, you've been talking for 45 minutes. I think people listening have checked their blood sugar or their children's blood sugar five times since you've been taught. I'll be like, let me just take a look

Nicole 48:17
at the terrifying to make

Scott Benner 48:19
sure that the worst. Want to make sure I'm not going to see a zombie Hold on a second.

Speaker 1 48:26
Well, listen, you had a specific, yeah, this specific experience, and your body obviously doesn't do well with it. But have you had that experience as an adult?

Nicole 48:38
No, never. I've never I have not hallucinated as an adult. I had one terrible low in university that I remember the room shifting. I mean, again, there are times where I still have those those kinds of broom shift blows where the floor feels like it's falling out. I had one awful experience. A few years ago, I was I always call it the my ex husband left me for left me for dead on the kitchen floor. We were I had been out. We had been out drinking and partying at a friend's place and he had left before I had and then I called him to come back and get me and in the meantime, he was turning around to come and pick me up and I ended up getting a ride home with somebody else. And he was like, fair enough very mad at me. And when we got home, I guess I so I had got home before he had and I walked in the front door and likely as a result of drinking and everything else, I think I went to take my shoes off and I passed out on the kitchen floor. And so when he got home, I was passed out and he quite literally stepped over me to go to bed and left me there. When I woke up. I probably will maybe four or five hours later, and at the time I was on the Libra so I scanned my sensor and it said I had hit the low you know how It doesn't read any more. It just says low. Yeah, I'd hit the low at the point of which we were coming home and stayed there all night long. And so yeah, I always, I mean, that was the worst one I've had recently I woke up and luckily, my purse was right next to me because we've just gotten home and I had gummy bears in there. And I swallowed a bunch of those before I managed to get up and go to the couch, but

Scott Benner 50:27
I'm gonna. I'm gonna say something crazy here. You didn't see any hallucinating at that point. No, I wasn't listening. I was just passed out. Is it possible? And this is gonna sound really crazy. But is it possible your parents actually were monsters? And you could only see them like that when your blood sugar was low? Because it hasn't happened since then. Can you please go to go to your your mom and dad? Are they alive? So? Yeah, would they would they come back together for an experiment? I'd like to get your blood sugar low. And I want to see if they're monsters right now. No, I mean, a little bit. I really do a little bit want to know.

Nicole 51:13
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember. I mean, again, I had a good relationship with both of them. So I can't imagine

Scott Benner 51:22
why. So no, I'm teasing you. I didn't mean like human monsters. I meant, like really like furry things that just

Nicole 51:32
it was the 80s hair was different back then.

Scott Benner 51:37
I don't know. They were. I don't know. I just I got this. I just hit the all sudden I was like, What if our parents are actually creatures? And this is why that's what she was saying. And I mean, the flies. Makes sense, right? Because monsters would have flies around them. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm very worried now about the one. Conspiracy theorists listening right now is like, you know, I listen to this podcast today. This lady's parents were sub humanoids. And she did.

Nicole 52:08
I'll get tracked out, you know why if all of a sudden you stopped seeing my name on the Facebook group, you know, I've been like, sound out and snap me up. Those Those spy balloons that are flying all over the world right now that that one's gonna come and hit my house in a minute. Down and suck up the alien life form that I am.

Scott Benner 52:27
I think everyone should be appreciative that I was not so ham fisted as to call them Sasquatch is because you're in Canada. I stayed. I stayed off the Canadian thing. I one thing I mentioned earlier, but that's it. Pretty much. I've been pretty good.

Nicole 52:41
Why you don't have Sasquatches in the US? I thought I think

Scott Benner 52:44
we call them Bigfoot. You call them Sasquatch? No. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's it.

Nicole 52:51
My boyfriend calls them Sam squatches his son will just oh, if he ever listens to this podcast. He'll be so upset that I said Sam squinch on here. How old is the the son is 1212 and he always says that he'll go oh, I think we found a Sasquatch. I think we're gonna go to Sam square and Trenton saying it by mistake. Now he does it on purpose just to torment him.

Scott Benner 53:15
Oh, Trailer Park Boys, right. Yeah, I got I got it. I got it. Okay. Yeah. Well, he won't be upset about that. He's not like we call that his name. And like,

Nicole 53:26
he doesn't want to listen to a podcast about diabetes. I don't

Scott Benner 53:29
think he I don't think so. You don't think that's what's five year olds or

Nicole 53:34
year old? A 12 year old boy with literally no experience and except for mine.

Scott Benner 53:38
So we're I feel like we're dancing around something. You have an ex husband? Who left you on the floor? Left me on the floor? Is this not a great experience being married?

Nicole 53:49
No, no, it wasn't a good one. There was a there was a few incidents of you know, kind of emotional abuse like that. I would have called that emotional abuse. Because I think when you do that to somebody, it just I realized that at that point that you know that it wasn't going to be fixed. The marriage was long gone. Yeah. Anyhow, yeah, we separated actually just before COVID. Just before we went into our first lockdown here in Ontario,

Scott Benner 54:15
did you like say to yourself, oh, I can't be in here together. Let's do it now.

Nicole 54:20
No, I really, I didn't believe that COVID was a thing. I really thought that people were being ridiculous. And, and I couldn't I remember somebody saying it to me one time, like, have you heard of this virus that's about to come in and shut down the whole world. And I laughed, and I went, Oh, you're so full of it. There's no way of viruses coming in and shutting down the world. Are you insane? Like that doesn't make any sense. And yeah, two weeks later, then boom, I but I really didn't believe that it was a problem. And even when the government told us we had to close our doors, like I said, I'm a restaurant owner. So we had to close the doors and we weren't allowed to have people in and for the first couple of weeks, I just thought it was all a bunch of hot like whatever. on earth are we doing? Why are we so afraid of this? It just, to me, it just seemed wild. But

Scott Benner 55:05
there have been three pandemics since the 1900. Right? Yeah, right. This happens all the time. You just right. Yeah. I know. I

Nicole 55:15
understand. Trust me, it was crazy.

Scott Benner 55:18
It does sound crazy. It mean when you live your whole life, and it hasn't happened. And it's just a story, like, you know, well,

Nicole 55:25
and when you have something like diabetes, and your parents become monsters, when you hallucinate, and yet, you can recover and rebound from that and go on to live a normal life, then why on earth are we so afraid of a coal you

Scott Benner 55:39
feel? You? I think just Yeah. Well, did you have you gotten COVID? Yeah, I had to change your mind if you had it. Yeah.

Nicole 55:50
I said afterwards. I'm like, Man, I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

Scott Benner 55:54
I did not enjoy my my one time I've had COVID at all. That was

Nicole 55:57
we were very careful. My partner has a daughter with disabilities. Actually, she has a different form of diabetes called diabetes. insipidus, which is so like, our bodies can't process the sugars and hers can't process sodium. But so we were very, very careful about what we were doing, you know, exposing anybody to any of that we were very close with, you know, wear our masks diligently and we were, you know, hand sanitizing like crazy. So, but I ended up catching it. I had no idea from where but yeah, it was miserable. no fun at all.

Scott Benner 56:28
May I took a sidebar here. diabetes. insipidus. In Sydney is a disorder of salt and water metabolism marked by intense thirst and heavy urination occurs when the body can't regulate how it handles fluid condition is caused by a hormonal abnormality and isn't related to diabetes. In addition to extreme for thirst, and heavy urination. Other symptoms may include getting up at night to urinate or Bedwetting, depending on the form of disorder treatments might include hormonal therapy, low salt diet or drinking more water. Very rare. 20,000 cases in the US per year. Wow,

Nicole 57:04
very, very rare. Yeah. So I'm very different so that it's not like, so she's regulated through fluids. And she does take an oral medication as well.

Scott Benner 57:17
And your partner only hangs out with people who have the word diabetes somehow involved.

Nicole 57:21
Yeah, he's he says that he's like, Oh, God, my diabetics, I can't even believe that I found another one. Just a different form.

Scott Benner 57:29
I mean, it's, it's interesting that it's called diabetes insipidus. And yet, it has nothing to do with diabetes.

Nicole 57:36
Well, so it's funny, I joined also a Facebook group for diabetes and separatists. And they are also outraged by the fact that they're called diabetics, because they don't they feel like that they're immediately assumed to have mellitus. And there, they want to rename diabetes and separatists to I forget what it is some sort of deficiency, instead, like the hormone that that they're deficient in, as opposed to being called

Scott Benner 58:06
everybody wants to rename something. You got what you think the Hashimotos people are excited, right? What's wrong with you? I have Hashimotos disease, right? Great. Like a guy named Smith couldn't figure that out to be him. But listen, I like I'm gonna pull one ad here for a minute, because I feel like you can substantiate my my thoughts that working in a restaurant is an orgy of alcohol and sex and the battery that happens after the place closes. Am I right? Yeah, I am. Right, right. Yes, yes. I knew it. People come on here and lie all the time about it, but I know. Okay, so what is it? Is it the schedule? Or does it attract a certain person?

Nicole 58:58
Yet, you have to be a certain kind of want to work in the restaurant industry. And we're all a very strange breed of people. But I think gluttons for punishment, for the most part, it is a incredibly hard job is physically demanding, generally long hours long days. And yet, I mean, we work when everybody else is off. So you don't go to a restaurant, generally, between nine and five. I mean, yeah, you might go out for lunch here and there. But usually it's the night times in the evenings and we work late hours, and I'm off today, like my Mondays and Tuesdays are my days off. I haven't seen a weekend, a real weekend in many, many years.

Scott Benner 59:36
And cocaine flows like water.

Nicole 59:37
Am I right? Well, yeah, so not in my restaurant? Of

Scott Benner 59:41
course not. Not yours. No, behind my back, right. Yeah,

Nicole 59:45
I always say that. I'm like, you know, if the restaurant industry has taught me anything, it's that there's a lot of people do cocaine and a lot of people cheat on their partners. Like there's a lot of adultery and there's a lot of cocaine. Just in general in the world, but

Scott Benner 1:00:01
no, well, yeah, there's

Nicole 1:00:02
way more than you thought in restaurants, of course.

Scott Benner 1:00:05
But yeah, I knew it see people because they got the thing going, right. You get to go to work, make money, you eat for free, and you get to have sex and drugs, and nobody knows about it.

Nicole 1:00:17
Right? It's totally normal. It's very, very normal. I used to work with a girl who said she bumped cocaine for breakfast, lunch and dinner. She didn't eat she said she was real thin when she first came to the industry, because that's all she did was cocaine.

Scott Benner 1:00:33
Did you hear when I interviewed the one girl and I asked her what her diet was like, and she said cocaine and and what what alcoholic she say? I can't think tequila she said. I said what's your what's your what's your diet like? And she says, like cocaine and tequila. She was not joking. And I was like, oh. So anyway, so when I'm what? I don't know. I feel so vindicated right now the call? I don't know.

Nicole 1:01:03
Well, then I'm glad I came on to do my job.

Scott Benner 1:01:06
Yeah, no, you really came through for me. This is lovely. I know two people who are chefs. And they're both out of their minds. Yeah.

Nicole 1:01:15
Yeah. Really, the hospitality industry is full of really crazy people. I mean, a lot of people get into it to start because it's good quick money. And you know, lots of people take up serving jobs or jobs when they're in high school and, and putting themselves through college or university but the the lifers the people that stay in the industry for life. Were were a special breed. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:36
Not not like you worked at a diner in 11th grade for a summer or something like that.

Nicole 1:01:40
Yeah, no, no, we're talking the Yeah, the people that do it

Scott Benner 1:01:43
for for life, so then they Adderall must be huge to

Nicole 1:01:46
again, maybe not not so much in my experience, but I again, like I said, I really stayed out of the drug scene. So yeah, I know that I've been around a lot of people that have but I it just was never anything that was tempting.

Scott Benner 1:01:57
No drugs for you. But you. You drink like it's a profession. Yeah, yeah, I still do. I

Nicole 1:02:03
drink a lot of alcohol. But I think I, again, I kind of attribute the drug fear back to the hallucinating as a kid. So I was never interested in dabbling. I mean, my ex husband loved mushrooms. And he was like, you know, it'd be so fun if we could get high on mushrooms together. And I always said, No, I don't. Why on earth would I want to hallucinate on purpose? I mean, I did it so often, when I was little that, I just can't imagine that it would be a pleasant experience.

Scott Benner 1:02:30
Yeah, I I'm starting to believe that. It's a very small number of people who aren't doing something altering seriously. And not not a judgement, by the way, just to just I'm starting to think that it's a thing we keep quieter than people give us credit for keeping quiet. It's just, you know, very, very interesting. Would you consider like your consumption of alcohol is it is as grand as it was in college or no, now?

Nicole 1:03:00
I Yep. Yeah, it is. So in a bit in a different way. So I, I drink every day, I come home from work and have a glass of wine or two, or a bottle every day.

Scott Benner 1:03:15
Sometimes I fill the bathtub, and I get in with a straw. And I know my bath is over when the wine is gone.

Nicole 1:03:25
But that said when I was in university, like my consumption was a lot but it was a lot, you know, at a time and I would I could get faced and blackout drunk and I wouldn't even think about it. That was that was my level of intoxication that those days don't happen anymore. It's not like I'm stumbling around the living room at night. Singing into my wineglass. You know what I mean? I enjoy

Scott Benner 1:03:48
sweet care. Can anyone hear this?

Nicole 1:03:51
I mean, don't get me wrong. If any of my friends listen to this episode. They're like, we've seen that version of you. And yeah, she does still exist. Don't pretend like you're all high and uppity and you know,

Scott Benner 1:04:02
but not grown that not an angry not angry when you're drunk though.

Nicole 1:04:07
No, not anymore.

Scott Benner 1:04:08
Not anymore.

Nicole 1:04:09
Well, maybe more of you trucks husband. I definitely was but no, not I generally don't get angry.

Scott Benner 1:04:15
Nicole, I think it's incumbent upon me to ask you if you've considered therapy.

I am in therapy. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. For sure. Of course. What Scott, you don't understand? I'm way better.

Nicole 1:04:33
No, no, no, there's definitely a therapist there.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
And so when you're talking to the therapist, you said earlier you couldn't pinpoint what happened. But do you just not want to share it with me and you know what it is? Or do you really not know? It's okay, if you really

Nicole 1:04:45
don't know, I really don't know what happened. Like and I've said that a couple of weeks ago to my partner I was like, I don't know whether they're, you know, I'm I really do believe that I live a life that points towards trauma of some kind, but I really don't know what it is Yeah, I mean, there's a lot there. There's a lot that I am angry and resentful for. But I think a lot of it happened kind of older. And while I was already an adult, my dad pieced out at 18. He was done with me at that point, we had a big falling out and, and then that was the end of my relationship with him. So we reconnected a couple of years ago. It's certainly not the relationship that a father and daughter should have. But again, I was 18 when it happened. So I think, you know, there's different forms, but I can't I can't figure out what happened when I was little little that would have pointed towards it.

Scott Benner 1:05:41
So I mean, is it as simple like, is it what they call daddy issues? Did you feel abandoned?

Nicole 1:05:46
Oh, I mean, I said yes. As a young adult and up until, yeah, I'll definitely definitely I had a good relationship with my dad. It was a really hurtful thing for him to leave. Yeah, it did. It made me really upset for many years.

Scott Benner 1:06:00
Well, I mean, I think that's what you're mad about my call? Yeah, maybe? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. Was your mom called to live with? Like, did you feel like you got left with the wrong person?

Nicole 1:06:13
No, no, not at all. Just my mom was always the caregiver. I mean, I remember my like I said, my mom was always the one at home when we were little and not. She was clearly the the better parent, she was the one that was she was clearly they definitely did not want to end up in my dad

Scott Benner 1:06:35
call. Are you letting us hear like 20% of your personality?

Nicole 1:06:43
Yes, I was gonna censor myself on this podcast. There's probably a bunch that could come out if we had more time. Maybe I should pour a glass of wine now and then you'll really see the true meat.

Scott Benner 1:06:54
Does your father work in the restaurant? No, Cody. Yeah,

Nicole 1:07:00
yeah, definitely.

Scott Benner 1:07:02
I'm getting it. I'm getting out. Okay. You know, I was thinking recently, if I shouldn't do a couple of episodes with people who are drunk Endor high. Like, like, tell them like you have to be altered to do the episode.

Nicole 1:07:18
I'm not gonna lie when I was getting ready to do this. And remember, I said at the beginning, I'm feeling a little nervous. The thought of having a glass of wine before we sat down and really did cross my mind. It's a little early in the day for that. And I didn't want to be shit faced by the time the kids come home from school.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
Can I ask an insensitive question? Yes. Do you think you're an alcoholic? Oh, yes. 100%. Okay. And are you in treatment for that? No, no.

Nicole 1:07:45
Okay. Well, I own a restaurant. I don't know if you caught that part.

Scott Benner 1:07:49
So are you trying to tell me that? This is a common place situation in your world? Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So, we're trying to are we trying to build the picture here that certain, I do agree that certain kinds of people go into certain kinds of industries, they they're drawn to them for, like, you know, for probably obvious reasons that we're not going to sit here and break down. So you're in that industry to begin with? I mean, because you went right away to college. And I don't know if you realize it, because it's so normal to me, you're like, I'm gonna go to college, and I'm gonna drink a lot. Like that was the plan. There are people who don't do that. But you you wouldn't think that you would think that. Everyone does that. Right?

Nicole 1:08:30
It's funny, because, again, I've heard when you talk, because you're not a drinker at all.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
No, you've had more. You've had more alcohol. You've had more alcohol. I would say this weekend, I've had my Yeah.

Nicole 1:08:44
Right. And that to me, just is is like, I don't understand it. Yeah, alcohol was, I guess, I suppose probably pretty prevalent my whole life. It was very common for my dad to drink. It was very even, you know, common for my mom to drink, not excessively for either of them. But alcohol was always around. Yeah. family functions when we were young, always there. Like I said, my dad hadn't been around for many years. And then when we finally reconnected, he and my sister and I sat down for dinner. And he's like, I just kind of want to get this all out of the way. He didn't really he wasn't very close with his family, either growing up, abandoned by his parents at a pretty young age. And he, so he didn't, I mean, I remember his mother as a kid, but not not being close with her or anything. So I guess he joined one of those like ancestry.com, or whatever they are, where you find out who all of your relatives are based on the DNA test. And so he discovered that his father had actually fathered up lots of children all over the country. Oh, and was all of a sudden exposed to all of these relatives. And he said, at that point, he goes, I've learned a lot about our family and our family history. I need you to understand our side of the family will die from self inflicted wounds. So alcohol addiction, cigarettes, drug addictions, things like that, that either will deteriorate your body or will, you know, outright kill you. That's, that's how we die. That's how this side of the family goes.

Scott Benner 1:10:21
Nicole, can I say something? Yes, we remember earlier, like an hour ago, when we were talking about how your doctor set up expectations for you and you follow them. Don't let that happen with this. There's no way people die. That's not true. There's there's things that people teach each other. And people have tendencies, but you can go against your tendencies. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Don't let somebody tell you that this is what happens. We have heart attacks in our 40s. Or we're all drunk or we're all this. It doesn't need to be that way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm not judging you. You can jump in with both feet if you want to. And it's cool with me. I honestly don't care what anybody does. I really, you know, I say that around eating with diabetes. And I wonder if people recognize I mean that for everything. Do not care what you do. It's fine. And I don't mean that, like, go ahead, do the wrong thing. I don't care. I mean, I think living let live I think, I think that everyone has a story that you don't know, and that everyone has things that they need, want desire, lean on, etc. And you can't judge them. And nobody, you know, you wouldn't want anybody judging you with the weird thing. You don't I mean, like, I'm sure right now, there's someone listening. It goes, this girl drinks too much. That person is probably selling pictures of their feet on the internet. So like, don't judge me, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it's a by the way, I saw this boy. You know, those videos. There was that video, this one kid used to run up to people in like, $300,000 cars and be like, Oh, my God, I love your car. What do you do for a living? He was trying to get out. Right? You know, somebody came along and made these other videos. That was that where the guy is like, How much money do you have in your savings account? Something like that. And he goes up to this one kid. And I just want to say, I'm not judging him. But I didn't look at this kid and think this kid is a mover and a shaker. Like I you know, like he was, he was, slovenly, would be a way I would put it. I think he he maybe could have done a set up. He was uncapped. Anyway, if Sasquatch was a person, like he could play him in a movie, and the guy's like, How much money do you have in your savings account? And it's just something like $90,000 which I'm not gonna lie shocked me. And I was like, Huh, why? And he says, What do you do for a living? And this kid goes, I saw pictures of my feet on the internet.

Nicole 1:12:44
Oh my god.

Scott Benner 1:12:45
I was like, I am trying way too. I'm trying

Nicole 1:12:51
to say it like I think we're doing this wrong. You know, I worked really really hard for really not a lot of money.

Scott Benner 1:12:58
barely enough to buy wine.

Nicole 1:13:01
For my wife

Scott Benner 1:13:03
took the wine bill out would you own a summer house somewhere?

Nicole 1:13:08
Oh, I probably could buy now. Probably could I'm not gonna lie.

Scott Benner 1:13:13
Sweetheart. I gotta ask you a question. Where in Ontario are you? Are you more in like the Toronto we part of you more in the lake? Manitoba part?

Nicole 1:13:21
No, I'm more so our outside of Toronto. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:13:25
Trying to truck Toronto. Trying to get you to Toronto? Well, I love the Toronto. I tried to explain to my wife one day I'm like, so many Canadians put the like an hour before the show, and they don't read their Trump dough. And she's like, that's not how you say it. I wish you guys knew how my wife's personality of mine are not the same. So I'm like, I'm not saying that. That's how you say it. I'm saying that's how they say it. And she's like, that's not how you say it. I'm like, Oh my God. We're caught in a circle here.

Nicole 1:13:54
Like it's just a friend of mine used to laugh at me. She was from the from New York. And I said something one time she goes, Oh my God, you're so Canadian. I said, What are you talking about? It's just like, you just had a boot. And I said, What are you? What do you mean? I don't say a boo. None of us say we're not going to boot. That's not how we talk. She goes it is how you talk. Again, and really so yeah, we just say a boo.

Scott Benner 1:14:19
Nicole, I don't know. I can't judge you. I honestly, if I were to say water. I'd be like, why is that? Why is my mouth doing that? So I can't make fun of you. You say a boot if you want to. You know it's interesting. I've been sharing this with a lot of people. I've been making the after darks lately. I gotta tell you a secret. I hate that they're called after dark. Why is that? I don't think there's anything wrong with this conversation.

Nicole 1:14:49
Well, it's funny you say that because I've had I've told a few people that I was that I had this call scheduled with you today and that it was going to be an after dark episode and they go well, why is it Hold that. And I've said, Well, I think generally it's not, you know, children appropriate and because there's so many kids that listen to your podcast, that maybe that's why, and but I had a few people say that like, what are you going to talk about that you wouldn't say in front of a child? And that's so inappropriate? That's so wildly inappropriate?

Scott Benner 1:15:20
No, tell them I agree. Yeah, no, I've

Nicole 1:15:22
had a few people say, I don't understand the after dark thing that

Scott Benner 1:15:26
I don't either. It's because I think I'm doing it for like, the one person who will look up from their Bible while they're listening to this and send me a note that says, you know, you can't I wish you'd flagged it differently. Yeah. And you can't you can't you can't let somebody talk about drinking like this and not let me know that's going to happen. Right? And I don't find personally, there's two people here talking to you at the moment. There's the bonds. No, I'm just kidding. There's the person that makes the podcast, and the person I am if this wasn't what I did, and the person I am doesn't want them to be called anything. The person who makes the podcast knows that if I don't call them something, then people will complain to me. And I

Nicole 1:16:14
do but do people. Yeah. Yeah. Are you really Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:16:19
get complaints about them. So not a lot. But enough that, you know, I get yelled at sometimes. Because, like, I mean, honestly, you say that you will, you're not going to hear a lot of podcasts seriously talk about drinking the way we did, and yet be so jovial about it at the same time, but But it's, but it's not a comedy thing, where we're just like, ignoring the fact that you shouldn't be drinking that much wine. Like, you know, it's interesting, too. You know it right?

Nicole 1:16:49
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, it's, for a long time, I tried to convince myself that that wasn't, you know, the person I was because I don't have mine at breakfast. And because I don't, you know, I don't have to drink every second of every day. I'm definitely not an alcoholic. But no, I also recognize that like, when you're when your mind immediately thinks of alcohol as the solution for stress or fear nerves, then yeah, your your brain is, is geared for something different. And I'm not saying that, you know, it can't be helped or fixed.

Scott Benner 1:17:24
Does it feel like if you had a food thing, like if every time you got upset you ate? Or if every time you felt stressed, you ate you would see this as the same thing?

Nicole 1:17:33
Yeah, I mean, I even think about, like smokers. And you know, how many times people that smoke cigarettes would say, you know, if I get stressed out at work, they go, Well, do you want to go and have a cigarette? Oh, no, I don't actually I don't want to smoke.

Scott Benner 1:17:48
I would like a big gulp of

Nicole 1:17:53
glass of wine, that would be my solution right

Scott Benner 1:17:54
now. But I'm gonna say something that I don't know if people think about all the time. Society is tenuous. And it's being held together a little bit with, you know, duct tape and spit just a little. And if you took away cigarettes, and alcohol, and a number of other drugs from society, I think in about a week and a half, we'd be in the streets stabbing each other with whatever we could find. And so, yeah, and there are plenty of people like I'm going to tell you right now, everything you've explained to me about, about your desire to drink, I understand what you're saying. I have literally no personal context for it at all. I can't as a person, like as a as just an individual. I do not know what you're talking about. I don't understand that life gets hard and you want to drink. I don't I don't I don't. I just I'm lucky that I don't feel that way. And I think I'm very aware of that. But I get it. I like intellectually, I understand everything you're saying. And yeah, I don't judge it at all. Like, but I really think it's just the case. You know, I think some people, they're, they're wired one way and some people are wired another way. And it doesn't make say

Nicole 1:19:06
like, I have an addictive personality or I have you know, addictive tendencies. I do believe that people can, can be that way. I can start my day without a cup of coffee. I need the coffee. I if I don't have the coffee, I'll be very sick without the coffee. I'm just as addicted to coffee as I am no alcohol. I have to tell you, it's a little bit more socially acceptable. In my mind,

Scott Benner 1:19:27
I have people are gonna laugh at me. I have the same arguments in my mind about little weird things all the time. For instance, almost three times a week, I think, shouldn't I just drink a cup of coffee to see what it's like?

Speaker 1 1:19:42
But right like, shouldn't I just go get coffee and try it? And I think yeah, I should. I should just go try that. And then I never do. Or someone gave us the edibles once as a gift. And they sat in the house so long that they got hard went bad and we have to throw them away. Right? But what we were like We should try these. And everyone is like, yeah. And then it just never happened. Never got there. It doesn't make any sense. Like I, I am so understanding of like, weed culture, that if I were to get a vape pen, I know which one I would get, like, I've looked into it that much, I will never, I will never do it.

Scott Benner 1:20:21
And I don't know why. Like, I am almost as conflicted about it as you are. Except for when I stop and think about what the like when I think about weed as an example, I think about like pain, like my back or something like that. And I think well, if that would help with that, then I would, I would be very interested in that because I don't listen, if you are a person listening right now. And you somehow see a difference between going to a doctor and getting a compound through a pharmacy. And you know, a guy in a restaurant taking a bump of cocaine to get through a thing. Like, I think you're being a little like, puritanical. If you're thinking about that it's all the same thing. It's just coming through different directions. Yeah, and so I have no feeling that like, oh, I shouldn't try that. I should probably, but then I just don't. But I'm not being held back by any fear or guilt or anything. It just, it's not enough. For me. It's almost like gambling. Like to me, like, I see how it would be fun to bet on something. But then I'm like, I don't care enough to actually do it. To actually get there. Yeah, like, it's just, it's, it's just the strangest, it's weird to be me in this situation, because I am totally open to it. Like, even like the idea of like, micro dosing mushrooms. Like I hear people talking about that. And I think yeah, but that makes a lot of sense. You know, and then, like, if you were anxious, or depressed or, or anything like that, and something like that would help you. I think that's great. I, you know, I just I don't know, I could never saying could never is the wrong phrasing. i It doesn't, I'm not drawn in that direction, I think is the the honest way to say it.

Nicole 1:22:06
It's just it's not in your vocabulary. No,

Scott Benner 1:22:09
I'm drawn in the direction of my back hurting and me being okay with it. Right, but Right. But for some reason, I did make a doctor's appointment for a couple of weeks from now with an integrative medicine person. And I am going to go in and say, Look, here are the things that I'm like physically unhappy about. I would not rule out anything. Tell me what you think. What do you recommend? Yeah, because I don't, I wouldn't, you know, I hurt. I shouldn't say this out loud. Yeah, I can't say this on here. Okay. There is a drug. I can talk around it. Okay, that people use to cut weight. Yes, that a lot of it's and it's not insulin. I want to be really clear. It's yeah, okay. Yeah. And I could easily, like, take it, right. And I heard somebody talking about it. And I know that works. And I know there's no like real weird side effects from it. I was still like, Man, I probably won't do that. I'll probably just die overweight. And then. But then, but like, think about the reverse idea of it. Like there's that I have access to this tiny little thing, that if I, if I took one of them a day for a few weeks, I probably lose an amount of weight that would benefit my heart. And yet, I'm like, well, that's not what it's for. Which is ridiculous. But if I go to that doctor, and that doctor would tell me here, I'm gonna give you these pills. Take them for this many weeks, and I think you'll lose 20 pounds. I'd go okay. You would do it. Yeah, isn't it? It's very strange, right?

Nicole 1:23:52
Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It really is. It's so and it's funny. It really is funny to me. What? Yeah, what people are willing to do to their bodies.

Scott Benner 1:24:02
If someone says it's okay. What's that? Sorry if someone says it's okay.

Nicole 1:24:06
Yeah, because the doctor tells you you should. Many years ago I was I did take medication for anxiety. I had. Again, I don't know if you've talked to anybody with this. Have you ever heard of trichotillomania

Scott Benner 1:24:20
get the data here? You made that up? I know where you made that up. Don't start lying now. You've been honest. So far trick.

Nicole 1:24:30
Hello, mania.

Scott Benner 1:24:31
I found that hold on. Yeah, I'm assuming this is a website that you made. Just it's a disorder that involves recurrent irresistible urges to pull out body hair.

Nicole 1:24:43
Uh huh. So I had this again, from the time I was very young, and growing up, and I finally had enough of that and I went to a doctor and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Please help me stop. I'd like to see a psychiatrist or I'd like to see a therapist. And I don't want to do the hair pulling anymore. And he said, No, no, no, it's just an anxiety problem here. Just take this pill. And he put me on these anxiety meds. And I went on them and I went, like, and they mellowed me right out. And I felt super mellow all the time. And then after a little while, I thought, so funny. I don't feel any, any stress and any anxiety, but I also don't feel general, like happiness anymore. I just, I was so mellowed, that there was no that it eliminated the extreme highs and the extreme lows. So as much as I wanted to get rid of those lows, I've missed the highs that were coming. If that makes sense. I went off the meds. And I thought afterwards like again, it seems so it seems so normal to just yeah, here's the meds just take them. It's just these pills that can all be solved with pills. And it was and that was his solution to it and really know what I needed was to, to see a counselor to see a therapist, like there was more to it than than not, you can't just take a pill to make it all go away. I mean, you can you can and doctors love to prescribe them. But we also, you know, again, there the there has to be a certain level of responsibility that we take on ourselves. Great point.

Scott Benner 1:26:15
Ever depressed. Do you have OCD?

Nicole 1:26:19
Yes, and yes, not so much. I mean OCD a little bit, but not really the trick and the trick is like a sign of OCD. But not that aside from that that would be about it. Like again, I there's a lot of like, I don't know if I don't think it's normal. I do a lot of like counting like counting steps counting stairs. Yeah. Numbers, numbers, numbers and depressed. Yeah, depression for sure. Yeah, there's been a lot of that over the years. I have more. I don't take anything for it. Aside from wine.

Scott Benner 1:26:51
Heil. There's a summary here. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is associated with low grade inflammation, neural antibodies or neuro inflammatory autoimmune disorders. In some subsets of OCD patients, autoimmunity is likely triggered by specific bacterial, viral or parasitic agents overlapping surfaces. I mean, the hair pulling disorder which I'm not going to trick a trill till amania trichotillomania, trichotillomania, that sounds like something from the seventh day song. Do you ever eat the hair?

Nicole 1:27:28
No, no, no, never, never like that.

Scott Benner 1:27:33
Is it? Can you vibe with what I'm reading here like that? There's this as you reach for the hair. There's like this tension that builds up. And then there's a release after you pull it out. Yeah. And it makes you feel better.

Nicole 1:27:45
Yeah. See, but for for half of a second. And then it's gone. Like and then it disappears just as quickly as it was there.

Scott Benner 1:27:54
The alleviation disappears. Yeah. Correct. So it's not actually helpful.

Nicole 1:27:59
I think that's where it becomes like an obsessive disorder is where you it's this obsessive thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it, and the, like, the, the, I think that's how they describe the like, OCD is the obsessive this of it to the to the compulsion of doing it, like

Scott Benner 1:28:20
if you need the release, then and it only lasts for a split second, then you got to keep doing it to make the release again. I mean, honestly,

Nicole 1:28:26
it never ever fixes whatever's causing the anxiety in the first place.

Scott Benner 1:28:29
Yeah, I mean, even like, just transfer that idea over to smoking you brought up smoking or right you smoke the cigarette, the nicotine hits you. It gives you that pop, right, yeah. And then it lasts. It lasts a little while and then it wears off. You have another cigarette. That's the same right? It's really this idea. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right.

Nicole 1:28:48
And again, I think like same with the caffeine, same with it, many of them again, same as a lot of the medications that you can take like eventually it wears off you have to and you have to keep feeding and feeding and feeding.

Scott Benner 1:28:59
But you're lying. Is that hard drugs?

Nicole 1:29:01
No, I've never done hard drugs. Interesting. You don't know why never. I don't know why. Yeah, I just never had an intro you know, I I never had the interest like I said I never wanted the I never wanted the hallucinations like any of the hallucinogenic drugs scared me really scared me I just couldn't imagine ever putting my body through that again. And so then I like I just I think I just never dabbled with any of it it just it's not like I wasn't around it it's not like I didn't know people that did it but

Scott Benner 1:29:32
no, cuz you're around it all the time is my point.

Nicole 1:29:36
Yeah, exactly. Like it's very very prevalent. I could easily get my hands on it if I wanted to almost anything I imagine. My partner's a weed smoker I'm sitting next to at the kitchen table is is a bag of weed and rolling papers. Like if I wanted to, I could smoke a joint right now and I just I literally have no interest on

Scott Benner 1:29:53
it. Hey, this is gonna seem like a right term. But did you like the bear on Hulu? Have you haven't seen it? to restaurants.

Nicole 1:30:01
Yes and no, it was very uncomfortable for me. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:30:04
I'm dying to know why. It was.

Nicole 1:30:07
It's a very real look into the restaurant industry, which is wonderful. But it's there is a bit of like, there was a bit of discomfort in the stress and anxiety that he was going through. You know, when I get home at night, I don't generally want to think about restaurants anymore. Sure. Like, and if there are a lot of those shows like that restaurant impossible, the bear, even the Gordon Ramsay one where he goes into a Restaurant Makeover, whatever it was, those they really do they kind of make me uncomfortable.

Scott Benner 1:30:41
No, I would imagine I just yeah, you're saying it's very, it's a incredibly realistic look at it.

Nicole 1:30:46
Very, very much. So yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know. It's a really well done show. I think I think we got through maybe four or five episodes. And it was a really well done show. But yeah, it just a bit too much of a real look into what it was there was another movie recently released called boiling point. And where they follow the chef who really does reach his boiling point on a busy Friday night, and I watched that with such extreme discomfort that was over. And so many people were like, Oh, that movie was amazing. It was so good. And I was like, Oh, God, it just felt so real. So real in an uncomfortable in an uncomfortable way?

Scott Benner 1:31:28
Is the I think it just has to be that way, like a restaurant because of the the pressure and the speed and everything, or do you think it's more about the people that get attracted to doing the work and how they react in that setting?

Nicole 1:31:43
Right. Yeah, I think it's probably a bit of both. I think because you really, I mean, restaurants are like, fairly, highly unpredictable. There's a lot that, you know, sometimes the restaurant business will kind of slap you in the face in terms of volume of business volume of sales, you know, it would be lovely to think that every day I go in and deal with the exact same thing, but it's never ever like that. You're dealing with so many people and so many personalities. And it really is, you know, an intense, a highly intensive stressful job for short bursts of time. You know, you but I think at the same time, there's people that enjoy that. That stress and that

Scott Benner 1:32:27
yes, I was gonna ask you Do you like it? Yeah.

Nicole 1:32:31
Oh, yeah, I do. I do. I love it. I love the hospitality industry, like driving a wrench and doing anything else with my life. It's

Scott Benner 1:32:37
like driving a racecar. You think? Like, you're like, everything's good. We're going really fast and slow down. And now we're gonna go around a corner. We might hit something, but we didn't like is that Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. So interesting. The call you have been one of my favorite conversations so far this year. Thank you.

Nicole 1:32:51
Well, thank you. It's only February. So give it time.

Scott Benner 1:32:55
cut yourself short right away. You're like, we're only a month and a half. And I cleared No, I mean, I my first episode was with a paraplegic who rides a bicycle and has type one diabetes is pretty interesting

Nicole 1:33:06
now. Yes. Very, very interesting. I remember that episode. Was that this year?

Scott Benner 1:33:09
Yeah. It was the first episode of 2023. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Nicole 1:33:13
that was a great episode.

Scott Benner 1:33:14
Thank you. See, I really appreciate how much you listen at the end here, because we're done. Because this was terrific. There's no more you need to give. And plus, I'm assuming you have to drink. But

Nicole 1:33:26
it's now almost 1pm. So you're right.

Scott Benner 1:33:30
To be funny, but but can you just for a minute, explain to me why you've I mean, you've been the show's been on for nine years. Like this is the ninth calendar year, I'm making this podcast. Have you really been listening that long to it? 2015 2015. I started.

Nicole 1:33:48
Yeah, if not 2015. It was shortly thereafter. I think that I've listened to every episode. I really do. There's been a few recently that I haven't if they were, you know, if I didn't feel like they would be relevant to me in some way. But for the most part. Yeah. I really have been listening that long. It's amazing.

Scott Benner 1:34:05
I'm glad I thank you. I'm glad you like it. Yeah,

Nicole 1:34:10
I've been an i i You know, I know a lot of it's funny. I do have diet type one diabetics that I talk to on a pretty frequent basis, I generally recommend the podcast. So yeah, I have been listening to it for a long time.

Scott Benner 1:34:23
Thank you. Well, I'll tell you why it makes me feel good, is because you just said you watch the bear. And it made you very uncomfortable, because it showed you a part of something you didn't want to see that you already dealt. Right. But yeah, you're listening to this and not having that same reaction. So I feel good about that. You know,

Nicole 1:34:39
what I think the biggest part of it is, is that and I think this about a lot of the Facebook groups and I generally try to you know, when I see people struggling with it, I always say like, I think the biggest help that you can find for yourself is another type one to talk to. And like I said I have a few of those that I see on almost to daily basis where we can, you know, vent and grief to one another. But if you don't have that access, and I mean, social media is helpful as well. But you have to know how to filter out a lot of social media. But I think the podcast does give an opportunity to listen to people who understand who are in the same scenario, and kind of give it a sense of like community and, and normalcy. If that makes sense. Those

Scott Benner 1:35:25
do not. Um, yeah, I'm so happy to hear that. I really am. You were terrific. I really do appreciate you doing this. And thank you.

Nicole 1:35:34
I appreciate you having me. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:35:36
think we should just turn the whole podcast into like, after dark and then then we'll lose the after dark thing. Yeah,

Nicole 1:35:42
yeah. Like it can people that's just normal. Yeah, it's just normal life.

Scott Benner 1:35:46
Yeah. Well, I think Well, honestly, because I believe it is. I agree with you. I think that it's an odd thing. To say that something anything, forget it, like the people wearing black T shirts, right? It's so prevalent in the world. And yet, if you didn't ever wear a black T shirt for you to say like, oh, that's, you know, that's wrong. You know, like, so it doesn't? In my mind, it doesn't matter to me, if you're, if you're using something to get through the day, whether it's caffeine or nicotine or alcohol, or you know, something else. You can't, if you're not one of those people, you can't sit back and judge the others. I mean, a because it's just so it's so prevalent, that I don't know, when you stop thinking about it as a problem and just start seeing it as apparently a necessity.

Nicole 1:36:39
Do you think it like, you can liken it to? How many times have you spoken to a UN I don't maybe not yourself, but for for myself, and you know, there's families that come into the restaurant. And sometimes I like I said at the beginning of the show, I swear a lot like, you know, I'll drop an F bomb here and there, I was actually pretty good. I think

Scott Benner 1:37:00
today I didn't I curse more than

Nicole 1:37:03
right? So I but how many times do you swear in front of in front of a kid? And then you go oh, sorry. You know, and the parent often looks at you and goes, like, they don't hear that word at home. Like, we all swear we all do it. Why? Why do we censor it out? It happens?

Scott Benner 1:37:20
Is it the concern that? Because you said we were joking about the kid who sold the pictures of his feet? And like saying we tried too hard. But is it the concern that what if we all tried to sell pictures of our feet? And then who the hell would make money to pay for the pictures of our feet? Like, is it that feeling? Do you think like, if we were all like, if everyone was doing coke to get through the day, they would not turn into? Like, you don't I mean? Like we need a balance of people. And I think that's obvious. Like I think there needs to be all kinds of people there, obviously, are all kinds of people, and you shouldn't try to eliminate any of them, or get them to stop doing what they do. My point is that you should stop judging what they do.

Nicole 1:38:02
Well, and I was just going to say, I think we it's it's thinking that we should all stop judging, but at the same time recognizing that we all do. And I think the reason why a lot of these things go on talked about is because you never know what somebody's going to judge you for. Yeah, man. Yeah, what's that? Sorry?

Scott Benner 1:38:23
You don't want to get spun back around on you?

Nicole 1:38:25
Yeah, yeah. Nobody, nobody wants to, to be judged for for the wrong reason, or for something that they I mean, again, it's pretty open, you can be pretty open and out there with people that you assumer are going to be okay with it. But if I had a group of of churchgoers come into the restaurant after church on Sunday mornings, I probably am not going to be dropping the F bomb around them. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 1:38:51
No, yeah, nothing and nothing wrong with being respectful of other people's, like, situations to you know what he mean? Like, I'm not saying you should be like, I mean, listen, I, personally, I'm thinking of who I know, smokes a lot of weed. And I have no trouble in the world with what they do. And yet, I was somewhere with them recently. And they were doing it and it kind of imposed on everybody else. And I thought, well, that's not okay. But I would have thought the same way if they would have smoked a cigarette in that situation, or I guess if they would have I don't know, I guess if they would have done anything in that situation. That somehow could have been an imposition other people. There's a balance in there. And just, I don't know, I'm just I think what I'm saying is you have to recognize that somebody's doing any number of the things that we spoke about today is not an indication that they are deficient or broken, or anything like that. We should stop treating people that way. Right. You know what I mean? Just let everybody do what they need to do.

Nicole 1:39:49
We're all just trying to cope. Life is short.

Scott Benner 1:39:53
Yeah, that's it. All right. This was great. Nicole, you were terrific. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. Hold on one second. Good time. Oh, did you? Yeah, good. Yeah. Did Oh good. Glad it didn't make you anxious nervous? Or did it make you feel like you wanted to drink while we were talking? Or did it make you feel? No, no, not at all. At all. Are you saying I'm better than your therapist? Nicole? What do you think? What are you paying that therapist is at 40. I know. Yeah, a lot of money. Why don't you send it to me and we'll just talk every week,

Nicole 1:40:25
once a week, but I don't I don't even see her once a week. So that's okay. You're off the hook for that. Alright. Thanks. Yep.

Scott Benner 1:40:41
Nicole was terrific. Was she not? Thank you so much, Nicole, for telling your story. And thank you to Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Is it really gonna be a giant truck that goes by while I'm making this good? Omni pod for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Please go to Omni pod.com/juicebox to learn more. See if you're eligible for that free trial and get started with the Omni pod. That truck is so far from here and it's still loud. What the You people doing? Your cars don't need to be that loud. She's contour next.com forward slash juicebox. Get yourself a contour next gen blood glucose meter. They're accurate. They're amazing. And you deserve accuracy. I deserve some peace and quiet while I'm trying to make this podcast. But you know, unlike you, I might not be able to get what I deserve. You can just go Oh, mother, dog. Are you serious? Is this how this is gonna go? Alright, I gotta go. I'm done. I can't take this anymore. Obviously, I'm guessing you don't know that word, but whatever. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Don't forget to hit the links in the show notes or juicebox podcast.com Don't forget to find the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, and check out bold beginnings. My god defining diabetes the protip series, support the podcast listen to some episodes. Download it. Are you subscribed? Please listen, look what I'm going through to make you this podcast. Please tell me you're subscribed. If you're not subscribed, I swear to god

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#1051 T1 After Covid

Charis was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes after covid.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1051 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show I'll be speaking with Karis and adult living with type one diabetes who was diagnosed just after getting COVID. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Were becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% off of your sheets, your towels and your comfortable clothing. Do that at cozy earth.com with the offer code juice box at checkout, you can get your diabetes supplies the same way we do it us med you can get your dex coms with my link you're on the pods with my link, you can get G voc hypo pen with my link. You can also learn more about touched by type one save 10% off your first month of therapy with better health and so much more when you use Juicebox Podcast links. Those links are in the show notes of your podcast player audio app, and at juicebox podcast.com. The diabetes Pro Tip series has been remastered it sounds fantastic. And it's right now in your audio players between Episode 1001 1026 They are not to be missed. I promise you, they will change the way you think about diabetes.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram. It's not too late to get tickets for the upcoming live show dancing for diabetes. Get your tickets now at touched by type one.org. This episode of the podcast is also sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. When you get started with ag one with my link. You'll also get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with your first order at drink ag one.com/juicebox.

Charis 2:12
Hello, my name is Karis. And I wanted to talk to you about the link between COVID and diabetes and have a background in let's see, I started out in biotech. So I have a degree in microbiology. And it gets even earlier than that became an RN for a hot minute and worked in neonatal intensive care. So I think a bond with like parents on your facebook group because of that, just because I've like seen parents grieving a ton. And yeah, that was intense and growing and getting a master's in public health and epidemiology and ended up working at the CDC and Centers for Medicare and Department of Defense and all that fancy stuff. No, I'm like,

Scott Benner 3:03
wait, hold on cash. You just you've had three lives and you're not I don't even think you've had three legs. Yeah. How old? Are you?

Charis 3:10

48. Okay,

Scott Benner 3:11
you've done a lot. So let's go slow. It sounds like there's a bio degree as an undergrad. Right? Micro.

Charis 3:20
Right. And then I did biotech. So I did like you worked in the industry. worked in the industry. Yeah. I actually moved to South San Francisco, which was like the biotech hub at the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:32
I remember when my wife got a job offer out there.

Charis 3:36
And yeah, that's like, like you've really made it well, like we were

Scott Benner 3:40
like nothing. The housing market kept us right where we were we're like no, thank you

Charis 3:47
really weird roommates.

Scott Benner 3:52
We were gonna move from a house to a cardboard box and somehow double our income and I was like, no waste. So we stayed here. Okay, so biotech, then somewhere nursing for

Charis 4:04
biotech, I was doing like legal cancer research. And I actually somehow by the luck of the draw got two patents out of it, and like a bunch of papers on the stuff so like, it was weird because it's like people are like, Oh my god, yeah. That was like a lifetime ago I forgot about

Scott Benner 4:23
nothing. Like nothing. Yeah, it

Charis 4:27
made it just these two clinical trials and then bumped out but that's actually really no, that's except the grand scheme of things. You know, most things fail

Scott Benner 4:36
so it's exceptional just doesn't get you a Lamborghini. That's what you're saying.

Charis 4:39
Right? It doesn't know you you the tradition is you get a $1 bill.

Scott Benner 4:46
Well, what I love lovely, thanks for your time, but you're being paid to work at the company. So that's good. So

Charis 4:54
like great memories. You have type When I do not associate myself with a lot of at all because it was completely fulminant. And so, like when I went, when I was first diagnosed, I went on all the Facebook groups, and I'm like, these people are talking about just restricting carbs and living their happy life. And I'm like, No.

Scott Benner 5:22
It wasn't working for you like that, like, no. How old were you?

Charis 5:29
It was a year

Scott Benner 5:30
and a half ago. Oh, really? Just that short of time. Okay,

Charis 5:33
that short of a time. It was a Yeah, that's a crazy story. So do you want to get to that?

Scott Benner 5:39
I asked you about I want to hear about your diagnosis. And yeah, forward from there.

Charis 5:45
Yeah. So after I changed careers a bunch and ended up, you know, working in like data science with healthcare stuff. I got COVID in March of 2020. And so that was the original strain. And have you ever had COVID? Because

Scott Benner 6:07
you got the og COVID. I just got I got the OG Yeah, I just gotta go. Oh, my friend. Yeah. Oh, did you? You got it twice. Okay, I just got for the first time. We just got COVID.

Charis 6:22
Because you're like, do you all the, you know, shots and everything but my immune systems wonky? And doesn't really, you know, we got,

Scott Benner 6:32
we got what I'm calling the Paris COVID. I don't know if that's a real thing or not. But my after, you know, I mean, gosh, when when was when was it? It was February, March 2020. Right. When everybody was sort of like, February, it was like you guys here, the people in China are sick. Like it was like that. And then, and then suddenly, we were in Florida, for my son's baseball tournament for his sophomore year. And so it was the beginning of the collegiate baseball season, we were in Florida for like a 10 game series. And the news was popping, but we weren't living a real life. We were like, in a hotel than on a baseball field, into a restaurant and a bar and then a hotel and like back and forth, like it went like that. But like halfway through the time, people my wife was like, this is getting serious. And yeah, and she and Arden flew home, they were gonna go home earlier than I was gonna stay the whole week. Because I don't have a real job. I can just move my stuff out if I want to where my wife was, like, if I don't come to work, they're gonna fire me. So. So they went home. I stayed a couple more days. My son got sick while we were there, but not with COVID. He got like a hit like a bronchial thing in his chest. And he had to he couldn't play the last couple of games. And everyone looked at him. Like he was like Frankenstein's monster, like, Oh, totally. Oh, my God, this easy. As everybody starts paying attention in the news stories are picking up and he's, like, sick. And they're like, that kid is patient zero, like so he, it was hard. You know, meanwhile, he didn't have COVID, which was anyway just was bad timing. Right? So we get home. And it's funny. It's funny that we're talking about this today. Because I'll tell you why. Because we get home. And we're lucky enough that my job exists in the house anyway. Right? The kids kids went into that thing where they went to school from home, which was not good. As far as how well it worked. And my wife was able to work from home. But now it's, I mean, is it almost three years later, right? It's December. Now. It were a couple of months shy of three years since then. And I was just downstairs half an hour ago ranting to my family. I'm like, You need to go back to the office because my wife still working from home. And I was like, no, no, no. Beyond that, like, no one has a schedule. Like, right, like, it's just like, everybody, like I can do my job whenever. So last night, at one o'clock in the morning, I was editing a podcast, because I had to go pick something up in the afternoon. I was like, well, I'll go do that instead. But time has lost meaning in Oh, yeah. And it's thrown everyone sleep schedule off. Yeah, totally. Yes. The problem is that no, and then like, good. Oh, go ahead, man.

Charis 9:29
Learning to interact with people you like if you stay at home a lot. Go to the grocery store. And you're like, I'm going to talk this person 00 My

Scott Benner 9:40
God, you look like you're not crazy. Do you want to hear about what I saw today on television? You're like, Well, I mean, I'm lucky I get to keep talking to people. But what I'm telling you the biggest problem that's come from all this is that we are not rising and falling with the sun anymore, and that somebody doesn't have time to be somewhere and a time to be somewhere again, like that's incredibly important. A schedule. Anyway, I was downstairs, I was like, everyone's going to bed at this time you're getting up at this time. I don't care if you don't have anything to do, like, like, you know, like, because my son's looking for work. So he can do that. Right. And my daughter's home for a break. So and I said to her, I was like, think about it, you were just a college for 10 weeks. And you felt great. And you were doing great. And now you're like, all beat up and everything I was like, because you're staying up till three in the morning talking to your friends, and then sleep until one o'clock in the afternoon or something. I was like, it's it's messing you up. It's like everyone's going to sleep when the sun goes down. We're gonna be farmers, dammit. So you gotta

Charis 10:40
you gotta be a farmer mentality. You just have to, are you going to

Scott Benner 10:44
curse? I'm not kidding. I'm like, I spent the a couple minutes before I go home with you are looking for sleep experts that have on the podcast to talk to, like I really, oh, I've

Charis 10:53
read a book. There's like a guy that has the best book ever. And it's, oh my god, like 500 pages, but it's really good. I'll send it to you. When I remember his name. Thank you have to look it up. But it's really great. I mean, it's like, having a schedule and you know, really sticking with it, not changing it on the weekends. We're guilty of that. On the weekends, and then I mess it all up.

Scott Benner 11:19
Listen, I imagine like it's okay for once in a while for that to happen. But like, it's just, it can't be good. And I think it's common sense. I don't think I need a sleep expert. I think I just said it, like go to sleep at 1011 o'clock and wake up at seven or eight o'clock in the morning. And let's go. I dissolve a scoop of ag one into a cold glass of water every morning and drink it down. And here's why. Ag one is a foundational nutrition supplement. It provides nutrition replenishment, gut optimization, stress management, and immune support to my body. And unlike plans that include multiple vitamins and gummies, and powders, this is all just in one convenient scoop. One convenient scoop of bio available ingredients that my ag one is tested for over 950 contaminants. And it's NSF Certified for Sport recommended by doctors like neuroscientist Andrew Huberman. And people who aren't neuroscientists like me, when you use my link, drink ag one.com/juice box, you get five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D with your first order. So if you're tired of supplementing your energy with caffeine, or tired of standing in that I'll walk in at all those powders wondering which one of these is right. You can do what I did. And drink a G one. Drink ag one.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. mean so

Charis 12:45
anyway, yeah, you don't actually set your iPhone should remind you to do that. I do that. It's like you need to go to bed. You need to start winding down and I'm like no, not gonna let you tell me what to do. Oh, wait actually told me to do that.

Scott Benner 13:02
winding down. Shut up. Listen, I don't think it's not that hard. We've all lost the basics here. start winding down used to be let's have sex and go to sleep.

Charis 13:16
Yeah, and after COVID It's just like, anyway,

Scott Benner 13:21
back to COVID. So we were all like, look at us. We haven't. We've never had we've never had COVID Right. And you know, my wife, my wife has a business thing come up. And she's like, you know, I have to go to France for a week and we were like, Alright, we'll see you. And you know, she comes home Arden still at school. So it's just cold i in the house. She comes home. She had a great time, got worked on met some met some people that she's been working with for years. She's never met because of COVID which is very nice. A couple three days later, she's home. She's like, I don't feel good. And we were allowed. My son and I were like, Yo, get away like, you know,

Charis 13:57
your Frankenstein's monster?

Scott Benner 13:59
Yeah, now you're the monster. We shoved her right upstairs into the bedroom. And she had COVID and we stayed away from her. And we were all like, for her but

Charis 14:09
like, the rest of you? Totally what you have to do, she was gonna

Scott Benner 14:13
die to keep us sick. Say we were fine with that. Like, we were like, That's it. You're done. We took care of like sliding food under the door, you know, stuff like that. And like a prisoner. Yeah. And she wasn't doing well. So she called the doctor eventually. And they gave her this drug. And they're like, Oh, this is great. Knocks it right out. I forgot what it was called. Everyone knows. There you go. I'm telling you, like, I don't know how long it was afterwards day or two. She's like, I feel like a million bucks. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, do not come out of that room. And no one cares, stay in there. But then she she tested negative for so many days in a row that it started seeming silly to like use the tests and we're like, alright, you can come back out now. And like to days later, She's downstairs working around all of us. And she goes, I don't feel good again. Oh, no, she got the rebound. Yes, it didn't just rebound to her. He got all of us because we were around.

Charis 15:13
That's horrible. I needed to all that work. Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 15:18
Listen didn't kill me, obviously. So I'm good. But it was unpleasant. For a long time, I would tell you that. Because the three of us got sick at once. We were sick for two solid months. Because the COVID turned into bronchitis.

Charis 15:34
Exactly. You know, what attacks everything in your body like everything and messes everything. It's like, I don't even know what's gonna happen long term to the, like, burden on the health care system for all the things that it's done, you know, like,

Scott Benner 15:52
No, I mean, it was really about that. I never took COVID not seriously, I always took it as seriously as I thought I as warranted. And we were careful and did things and separated. We did everything that you know, people said to do. And there were also times during the summer like my son played baseball, like through COVID. But out, but I took seriously the idea that people were like, there's doesn't seem to be any transmission outdoors. So we were outdoors, we still all sort of stayed away from each other. The boys, of course, were in a dugout, but even they kind of spread out a little bit. And no lie like in the year 2020. Co played a full season in the summer. In a collegiate Wow. And one kid, there was like 20 teams, one kid Guy Code. And that was amazing. And then it never got through anybody. But then once it got cold, we went back inside. We were of course, like we kind of went anyway, I treated it seriously. I took it seriously. And three years later when everybody's like got nothing now like getting a cold. I'm like, yeah, not in France, apparently. The Paris COVID was nasty. So anyway, the French you got but you got OG right away. COVID, which must have been scary as hell, right?

Charis 17:07
I got og COVID. And here's the crazy thing. So I need like, with my background, that's why I told my background. It's not to show off. It's just to be like, Okay, this is why it freaked me out so bad. Because let's see, in December of 2019, my son was like, you know, he Doom scrolls a lot. Okay, like, with this COVID thing, it's gonna be real bad. And I'm like, No, I used to work at the CDC. Totally. We got this. We got this story. And then like a month later, it was like they all started dispersing out of China and like, oh, global travel. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And I will not call it the Chinese flu that makes me so mad. Or the China virus. You know, it could have happened anywhere. Yeah. And it just so happened to be there. You know? Incidentally, no, 100% Coincidentally, like, yeah, so that's my little side thing with that. I'm sorry, what were you gonna say?

Scott Benner 18:10
No, just it might because of what my wife does for a living. She, she had been aware of it for a while. And she's like, I'm telling you like, there's a virus in China. And it's like, it's good. My wife was the first person to tell me before I heard it on the news, or anything else. She said to me and told me yeah, she told me about it. She told me what it was. And she said a year. She said at some point, she didn't say in a year. She said at some point, everyone on the planet is going to have had this virus. Yeah, that I was like, You're out of your mind. And she goes, No, this is what's gonna happen. I was like, okay,

Charis 18:44
yeah, it took me like till probably February of 2020. to, like, accept that. Because when I was working at the CDC, Ebola came out, and so I get to hear all that craziness. And, you know, and because of that, how well they handled Ebola. I was like, Oh, it'll totally be okay. It's gonna last a really long time and affect a lot of people but like, there's a whole structure in place for this, like, people like me are trained for us, we trained our whole lives for this. They didn't end up using people like me to help with it, but that's another story. So in March, I started having symptoms and it was so weird because, you know, had to be my own nurse and then I telehealth my doctor and I was like, I think I have COVID but then they were like, we're not we don't have a test you know, it's not reliable yet. And that was when they like recalled the test. And it's like, you probably have it based on your symptoms, you know, and you also have Crohn's disease so like just watch it you know, just stay at home, isolate all that and then like the master of quarantine, so I did the you know, stay in my bedroom and have food shipped on Today when I talked to my doctor, it was the craziest thing, because he's like, Harris, I don't know really much about COVID, I'm just gonna be honest, this is why I love my doctor, he's like, No, my doctor for 13 years. And he's like, you actually know more about this than me, I'm just gonna be honest with you. So what you need to do is you need to call your friends, and you need to find out what this is. And I know that you have that like, you know, investigative nature about you where you can figure this out, and then you call me and he told me what I should do. Like, because like, all the drugs right now, they're not working. And you know, we're doing things that aren't working. And so this is back, you know, in the very beginning, and I ended up contacting my friends at CDC, and I'm like, I'm positive, and they're like, Oh, shit. And I'm like, Why do you say? And then I'm, like, telling them all my symptoms, and then they're like, oh, keep going, we're writing this down, you know, and then they're like, talking till the doctors. And so I had like, my own

Scott Benner 21:16
team, you had a COVID Geek Squad.

Charis 21:20
Geek Squad. Yeah, and I could just call and be like, my arms have all these, like, purple spots on it, you know, which is like, really bad.

Scott Benner 21:31
Did you? I mean, being that early on, and, and having connections to people who you would think would have the highest level of information available? And they're telling you like, I don't know, you tell me what's happening. Like, that's not comforting, I imagined,

Charis 21:46
comforting, ya know, and then and then to be a nurse and know what the symptoms are, and be like, I can't feel my feet, like, you know, or like, my brain is not working, right. Like, this is not a normal virus like this is affecting my central nervous system. And that was before they said, you know, across, couldn't cross the blood brain barrier and all that, you know, like, we had no idea, but I was just telling them, like, what my symptoms were because I'm like, hey, you know, like, I can tell you what it's like. So I felt like a science experiment. It was funny. I don't know. It's just weird. And I got better and didn't get anybody else sick, which is great. I'm so proud of myself for that.

Scott Benner 22:29
Did they give you did it give you anything back then? Or was it just like hydrate rest? Stay away from people,

Charis 22:36
hydrate, rest? lock yourself up? You cannot come to the ER, do you not like, it was just total lockdown. Like you are on your own? You can telehealth your doctor, that's the best you can do? And I was like, yeah.

Scott Benner 22:52
No, I'm like, yeah, like, it's not fun to be the first person that have something like, like, with no answers, even by the way, you know how often we go to the doctor, and the doctor gives you an answer. And you leave and you're like, Oh, this is good. I feel like the guy with the lady and the coach told me the thing. And you're walking away and the doctor. Yeah, and the doctor is like, I don't know if that's right or not. So it's still just people. And that's

Charis 23:15
my relationship with my doctor. I mean, we have a very funny relationship, like, we joke all the time. It's, like, just awesome. He's been my biggest advocate. So yeah, and then I found out like, the whole infrastructure was falling apart, which I knew would happen anyways, because I studied abroad, in like, Barbados, and Cuba, studied their health care system and got to compare it to ours. And it was just fascinating, like, how much money we spend, and help our outcomes are and you can fact check this, you know, and look and see, like, we're 27 or something in the world by the WHO metrics, you know, like, our maternal mortality rate is horrible, you know, infant mortality rate, horrible. There's a thing that where they call it, you know, it's not health care at sick care. So, yeah, I mean, that's disheartening. But, you know, we also have incredible technology that can keep people alive for like, ever. I swear.

Scott Benner 24:21
You know, we live in a we live in a fairly quiet time in history. Well, we did. Right. So yeah, great. Your your post World War Two intil. I mean, honestly, maybe. I mean, I guess you could argue this, but 911 Maybe in that.

Charis 24:39
It was I was gonna say,

Scott Benner 24:41
post World War I was just like, Yeah, well, post world war two to 911. Everyone in America who's you know, hasn't has a job of any kind is living a life better than most people have ever lived on the planet. And even our poor you know, even our poor people are living sometimes the conditions better than what you find in other places in the world. And so, yeah, so when the 50s turn into the 60s, I mean, think about it when you think about the 50s, or like, sock hops and this kind of thing and the 60s, or like peace and love in the 70s, or like, some drugs go with this and love and,

Charis 25:17
like crazy fashion. And

Scott Benner 25:20
it's the worst thing that happened to the 80s a plane got hijacked, and, you know, oil prices went up a little bit, right. That's it. And then I mean, we started picking wars again, because we're like, this is boring, we should. You know, let's figure out what the Falkland Islands are and shoot at them, like, like you like you got like. And then the 90s are, you know, its prosperity, and everybody's making money and blah, blah, blah. And then 911 happens. So there's generations of people who think that that's what the world is fashion and music and happy and like, blah, blah, blah, and then all of a sudden, 911 smacks you in the face and you go, Oh, we are all bouncing on the head of a pin here. I don't know how we kept going like this for so long. And then then COVID happens and you realize that most of society is smoke and mirrors. And it's

Charis 26:16
so great. It's like, and it's essential, and illusion.

Scott Benner 26:20
It's easy to pretend that you know what you're doing when there's nothing to do. And then suddenly, you get tasked with something and you find out that people, you know, like, Listen, how many people do you think you work with? Who quietly in their car in the morning before they get out and come into the office think I don't know what I'm doing? Someone's gonna figure out that I don't know what I'm doing. Go in, like,

Charis 26:42
a lot had impostor syndrome, right? Like, well, it's my self. Totally Yeah, for a long time.

Scott Benner 26:49
But it's also not just a syndrome, it's that you're living in a comfortable time. Like, I mean, listening to it. Like, like, I guess I could go to ROTC as a high school student and think like, I know what to do. But if you then put me in a time machine and drop me in Vietnam, in the middle of the war, you might find out I'm not the fighting machine. You thought I was like you don't even really, like long here until until people get tested. You don't know really what they have. And I think we went a lot of generations where people were not really tested to the level that history has sometimes tested us, too. And now here we are. Oh, yeah. So anyway, that's

Charis 27:28
just like, pushed to the max. I think so. I'm surprised how well we've done actually. Because I'm an optimist.

Scott Benner 27:39
Yeah, I agree with you, too. But I'm saying that in that moment, when you were talking about, everyone was like, Oh, this isn't like, This isn't me playing a video game like this is happening? You know? Yeah. Like,

Charis 27:51
this is real. Like, it's, it's about ready to go down. Exactly. Well, and then I was working, you know, in the three letter companies, agencies. And so like, I knew what programs were getting shut down and what weren't. And I'm like, Oh, this isn't gonna work. If they shut down, say you, Sam read, for example, that's like the military version of the CDC. So that got shut down. It's now partly back up, but they're the ones that are supposed to do all the stuff in the movies where, you know, like, they come in with the National Guard. And, you know, where the Biohazard suit and all that that's not the CDC, that's you, Sam read, okay, the pandemic response team got shut down. It's no backup. But all those things, the whole infrastructure was shut down. And I'm not going to even get into politics and why. But that's what happened. And it just made the whole entire system crumble. So how it's supposed to work is the CDC is a government agency, they have to get invited into the states, they cannot just come storming in. So it's supposed to start at the county level, and then go up to the state level. And then the state goes, oh, let's call them the experts from the CDC and figure out what do we do? That didn't happen?

Scott Benner 29:11
Does it not happen? Because people don't know that it's supposed to happen? Like, it's somebody people

Charis 29:16
people knew? Absolutely, uh, specifically, this is like, I think everybody was just like in shock. And maybe there are some politics. Who knows? I don't know. I think it's just like, so overwhelming. People were like, what do we do? And like all of us epidemiologist was like, dude, talk to me. And like, I talked to a recruiting agent. And she said there was a hiring freeze for epidemiology. Which was like, I don't know, it's just, it was just like, so many series of choices that were made and it's not one person's fault. You know, it's just collectively as a society. We made some decisions that totally crumbled our or help infrastructure. And, you know, I could see the holes or the cracks on the system before. And when I talk about it, people are like, You're crazy, like, Okay. And then it happened. And they're like, how is this gonna last? Oh my God, what do you know? Maybe?

Scott Benner 30:20
Well, that was really my that was kind of my bigger point about my my long story that I told, which is that, you know, there's a running back on your team. And he's the guy, right? He's the one who gets hurt, then there's a second guy, and he gets hurt. Now suddenly, you're looking at the kid you didn't even want to have be on the team. He hasn't been tested. And now you're telling him you're starting. And I think we were in that situation like things just went along so easily for so even like some of the other big health crisis in the world, you know, that you go back over my wife was thrown at me the other day, right? I know, none of them are popping into my head. But a lot of them were offshore. Like they weren't happening here. And they were dying out over there. And you don't think of it that way?

Charis 31:04
SARS, that's the one right? Right. You don't

Scott Benner 31:07
like to think of you don't like to think that an invisible thing can just appear and start killing people. And the way that it really sometimes stops is it just kills all the people it's going to and then it kind of it then it's gone. It burns itself out. When you hear burns itself out. Your mind doesn't cognitively think of burning itself out as killing all the people that can before it dies. And like you know, like because that right, sort of what's happening.

Charis 31:34
And it's just mind boggling to think that this tiny, tiny little thing, like nanometers big can kill hundreds of millions of people. Like, that just blows my mind. And, you know, I don't want to rag on the US healthcare system at all, you know, because it happened all over the world, like everybody, like every country was like, whoa, what do we do? Yeah, sure, you know, I mean, so that was kind of a global phenomenon. But yeah, it was just weird to navigate it as a patient, you know, and then to be a patient that's also a nurse in the epidemiologists and scientists, because I'm weird. Like, I knew too much, you know, and it was really scary.

Scott Benner 32:17
I was listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson recently. And I think it was him somewhere. And he said something like, if you took a, like, a cross section of your colon, I think this is what he said, please don't hold me to any of the salient details of this. But somewhere in your digestive tract, he's like, if you just biopsied this tiny little bit, there would be more bacteria in there. I think he said, then all the people who've ever lived on the planet combined, like so.

Charis 32:45
No, I've heard them say that. Yeah. And then Shane, well, and then, like, you're not you your microbiome.

Scott Benner 32:52
Yeah. So you are basically a planet for other living things. Yeah. And, like, mess with your brain. And then you start doing the pullout, like, you think of that as the micro look, and then you start pulling out, and you realize, right, there's, there's things living on your skin that are eating like your dead skin and stuff like that. And, and yeah, then you pull back again, and you pull back again, I think the point he made was that we almost don't have the ability to pull back far enough to see our place. But then you don't mean that you're a bug on this planet. And there are bugs, you and in this planet might be a, you know, like, and he started talking about that whole big idea that that, you know, Earth could just be an atom inside of like, a bigger structure. And, and yes, technically is like, if you think about space. And so yeah, and so I started thinking about, like, somewhere inside of me, there's blood, like pooling and flowing, right? And there's, there's, there's an atom in there, if something like there's there's this, there's a cell and, and that cell can't see other cells, it's too far away from them. And even though in my measurement, that distance might be a centimeter, how far is the measurement between Earth and the Moon? If we are just floating in the blood flow of something else? And I started thinking about I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna stop totally Cartesian philosophy. Yeah, and I'm just like, that's enough of this. Right? NEIL DeGRASSE like, and

Charis 34:23
I just went down there.

Scott Benner 34:26
Like seriously, like, who where does that name come from? But that's no big deal. So so when you think about that, and then you apply that idea to like, like catastrophic illness, the you care about you? Right? I care about me my kids care about me if I die, it'll be a struggle to other people. But then you know, you get outside of my house you go to two houses down. They're not going to their life's not gonna change if I die. And I know that because two houses down some guy died. I've never met before and my life didn't change. And and so It's hard to remember that the virus doesn't know that the virus doesn't discriminate. Yeah, it's like, exactly. So anyway, yeah, scary is my point.

Charis 35:11
It's friggin scary. And I do think that people would notice if you died because, you know, you have a whole group of people

Scott Benner 35:18
whose, um, abandoned help, okay? Yeah, I'm a bad example. But you know what I mean?

Charis 35:28
cancer or whatever.

Scott Benner 35:29
There's a lady across the street, who, if she goes, she's gonna know. And I think her nephew lives with him. And then beyond that, like, she's probably all lived her friends circle and you get my point. My point is the virus doesn't care that people love you. And so you get into that situation where it's just in your own head. It's frightening. It's an invisible invader. You don't like Oh, it's terrible. So okay, but then it gets worse. After you have COVID What happens next?

Charis 35:59
So I just had all this weird things happened, like, had four toenails fall off. Like, I think I'm going to be an afterdark episode. Gonna tell you, kids are gonna be like, Oh,

Scott Benner 36:14
I after 800 episodes. That's one of the that's shocking things that anybody's ever said to me. Like I tightened up inside when you said I was like, Oh, God, no. All right. Okay, go ahead. Can I ask question on the same foot? Okay.

Charis 36:33
To like paint, it would look like.

Scott Benner 36:39
So you were painting the hard skin underneath of I don't know if anybody's ever lost the nail before. But it's kind of it's rocky under there. It's Rocky under there. Yeah. So you would paint that

Charis 36:49
I would paint it. That's how, like, how much I was trying to deny what was happening to me and have like a feeling of control. I guess. Because I felt out of control. I was like, I can't control this. Like, it's just happening. And there's nothing I can do about it. And so I have to just go through it. And it was just wild. Like, I didn't even take days off work because I work from home. So I was just like, Okay, if I lay in bed all day, I'm gonna get pneumonia, it's gonna get worse, and then I'm gonna get blood clots, it's gonna get worse. So the best thing I can do, is trying to stay active. Right? And by active I mean walking from my bedroom to my office. But you know, when you go to the hospital, the nurses are always like, you have to get up and walk and you're like, Dude, I just had surgery. Are you insane? And heartless. It's so you don't get pneumonia and blood clots. So yeah, I worked just kind of done at night. Would I think I did that because I needed to distract myself from like, impending doom. Yeah, that was wild. Just the symptoms. were crazy.

Scott Benner 38:00
How long? How long after this, though? Do you? Does Omicron come first? Or does diabetes come first?

Charis 38:08
So diabetes come. So it was OG and then about a year later diabetes, and then omachron, which completely wiped out honeymoon period. And you're gonna think I'm crazy. But you've had a guest before talk about this, where he felt like his pancreas had like pain and was being attacked. It felt like that I had pain, like epigastric pain is right there. And I had that when I got a micron. And then it was like, insulin needs totally changed. Here's another curveball. And I'd gotten five shots by them. But it didn't work for a micron. So that was funny.

Scott Benner 38:50
What's funny?

Charis 38:53
Oh, it's funny. So my diagnosis story is actually hilarious. So well, if you have the gallows sense of humor, which I do, you can't tell by now. Like how I cope with sad things, I guess. So I went to Well, first of all, my daughter was like, you know, competitive gymnast. And then all I could imagine was like, the girls on the balance beam, like, throwing snot at each other. So I was like, wow, that was a your work. And maybe like, I'll put masks on, you know, in between. And like, if you're not sanitizing the bar, you're not making everybody like now. It's just like we're done. Right? And that was really hard because she's really good. And so we got her into the whole equestrian lifestyle and bought her a pony. And my mom was like, Okay, we're going to take her, you know, he had to drive all over the freaking country to do the equestrian lifestyle. It's like the most expensive sport I did not know that my mom bought like a camper van so I could just drive around because it's got since bathroom and it's like a giant quarantine mobile right. So I called the van Demick life. What did you call it? Van Demmick. Life? Van. Van life

Scott Benner 40:25
I heard. I didn't quite at first I got it the second time. Okay, good.

Charis 40:30
Yeah, it's like funny. So like, every weekend, we were living out of the van, and one of her meats were in like, San Diego or something. And I live, you know, like, in the middle of the country, so, well, a little less. When I was driving back, I started getting really, really tired. And it was like, okay, you know, I always get tired, you know? That's right. And, you know, working yourself to death and all that and have Crohn's and that makes me tired and whatever. And then I ended up pulling into like a propane station to refill the propane tank. And I hit the little pile on concrete, whether they call or they pylons, you know, the little things that like protect you from cold, like cones, but they're concrete, concrete to protect, to protect the propane tank from people crashing into it. And then like, you know, blazing up. Yeah, and an awful mess, right. So I was pulling in and I scraped the right side of this beautiful camper. Right, like,

Scott Benner 41:46
that's van mageddon. So

Charis 41:52
that's really off. And in San Diego. I had one drink, just wondering. And I was slurring my words, like real bad, okay. And that's weird. Because like, I can handle a drink. I get home after like, it took forever to get home because I was like, Oh, I gotta stop and take a nap. Because that's the safest thing to do. And, you know, my kids are like, Cool. We'll just like go on a Wi Fi and entertain ourselves. You know? Thank God, I did that. And then I got home, and I'm cleaning out the van. And my mom calls me and she's she had been in San Diego with us. She called me she's like, I'm taking you to the hospital. And I'm like, it's just like, something's not right. It's just not right. I'm taking you like now and I'm like, Okay, well, I'm going to take a shower, because I know that when you go to the hospital, you go to bed for like days. And she's like, No, you're going right now. I was like, what? Like, I'm fine. I'm cleaning up the van and everything like this is how deeply in denial I was. Oh, and one more thing happened. This was funny. On the way back, I drove through Vegas. I drove past the Bellagio. The line was really, really long to turn. And I was like, oh my god, I have to go the bathroom really bad. And Oregon, the hazards on ran to the bathroom. In the

Scott Benner 43:21
wait, you just abandoned your van in front of the Bellagio and then ran into the hotel?

Charis 43:26
No, as the van has a bathroom. Oh,

Scott Benner 43:29
I don't know why that's funny. But okay.

Charis 43:33
It's funnier. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna say this, like, I didn't quite make it. So my kids are horrified. You know? And they're just like, What is wrong with you? So that was one of the things that made my mom go Ah, so anyhow, I get to the ER, and it was about two hours. And they were like, We don't know what's wrong with you. And then they finally started looking at glucose because that's just something that they do, you know. And, you know, they were like, if this is like some weird, man, we don't know what's going on. And finally, they looked at the glucose and it was like 655

Scott Benner 44:14
Was that on your radar at all? Having because you had Crohn's, Crohn's disease, autoimmune, right?

Charis 44:19
Friends is autoimmune and then I take a biological immunosuppressive drug. So I take that shot every eight weeks. And that just like shuts down your immune system, so you don't attack yourself, right. But

Scott Benner 44:34
anyway, so So, okay, so now you're laying there.

Charis 44:38
I'm like laying there in the ER and the doctor. It's just the kindest guy and he's just like, really puzzled, you know, just like, What is going on? I gotta fix this. They gave me an MRI of my brain because I had a headache. Because I had cerebral edema, which took three months to resolve. So I was kind of like Dory.

Scott Benner 45:03
So you think that's how you ran into the, the concrete barrier and like, why you were just off in general.

Charis 45:10
And I lost my vision. So weights part of the thing, but that didn't happen until the next day after it was admitted to the ICU. You lost your vision

Scott Benner 45:17
in the ICU. That could not have been fun. Okay, so yeah, that was

Charis 45:23
that was so not fun. So like, the, the ER doctor comes back, and he's like, he pulled his mask down. But you know, I had cerebral edema. So I could have made that up. Who knows? And he's like, Oh, my God, I am so sorry. You are becoming diabetic. And I don't think this is type two. And I'm just like, you know, they say the patients can only hear 5% of what doctors tell them. And it's really true because it just became want want want want want want. It's

Scott Benner 45:56
stunning, right? Like

Charis 46:00
he's like a UTI or something, you know, and I'm drinking a lot of water because it was driving through like, the desert. You know? We're not, you know. And

Scott Benner 46:11
do mom ever tell you in retrospect, what made her call you?

Charis 46:13
She had a feeling? Yeah. Just you didn't seem right. It's interesting. Yeah. It was the it was the one drink and I was like, like, super alcoholic. Sounding slurring, you know?

Scott Benner 46:28
Just shut you off that one drink.

Charis 46:31
Since one drink just so now. Okay,

Scott Benner 46:35
so how do you start managing diabetes? Like, like, are you in the hospital for long they send you right back out again?

Charis 46:43
Oh, no. So I go to the ICU. And they're like, the ICU because you know, we have to do IV, regular insulin, right? And I'm like, okay, cool. Can I walk? You're really sick. Like, my ANC was 13.80. Wow. That's impressive. But it's but what's even crazier was like, my labs when they looked at the whole, like, pH and carbon dioxide and all that. I mean, it was just extremely, like, you know, they show the normal zone of where you're supposed to be. And like, everything was out of whack. Yeah. And that's the first time that's ever happened to me. And it's sitting there looking at my phone going. Me, or is that like another patient? And they mixed up?

Scott Benner 47:37
Isn't it? Like, isn't it fascinating? I find it really just impressive. How out of whack. Everything can be and you're still alive. Like

Charis 47:48
seriously stole I just keep going. Yeah, amazing. You know? Yeah, didn't you have like a thing where you will forget which

Scott Benner 47:56
iron was so low at one point

Charis 47:58
iron, right? That's what it was. Like, he just kept

Scott Benner 48:01
going I just kept I kept going. I was like, it it affected my personality and my ability to rest sleep like I was a mess. But I could focus what I guarantee you that there are 5070 episodes of this podcast that I recorded with my iron, like my heart level, like 11. And like, oh, wow, so badly that if I stood up and then tried to bend down to the floor, I would have just kept going. But But I could pull it together for short bursts of time. And even like I did it during when I COVID I did it like you're gonna hear well, at this point. The way the podcast goes up six months ago, when somebody's listening to this. There's a handful of episodes of the podcast that you heard, you'll never know I was sick during. But I was I was sitting here like, either wrapped in a blanket or half naked because of my fever will never see that there's a whiteboard in front of me that I would sit down and I would just take with a marker and I would write focus on it. And then I just I just look at it while I was recording. And I don't think you'll I don't think you'll ever hear it but I was like devastatingly sick. So Oh yeah. If you hear the one of them I can point you to for sure. Is there's an episode I did along with the company for G voc. I bullpen? I was sweating during that, like I was kicking heroin. And oh man was rolling off of me in sheets. And I was just an i That's a good episode, because I listened back to it after I was sick.

Speaker 1 49:37
I was like, I can't believe I pulled that off. So anyway, so I take your point, but it's just it's interesting that you can see all these labs and they're all so far out of range and you're having all these problems. You know, the thing you talked about in your your brain you're you're experiencing symptoms there. And still, it's still you were cleaning out the van you know what I mean? Like

Charis 49:58
so I'm clean up the van I'm Do you want to die in a week or something in the van? Or it's gonna stink? You know, like,

Scott Benner 50:03
your agency's 13 Like, you were gonna go down eventually. Don't get me wrong, but like, it's, it's amazing that you could that any of us could. So I'm sorry. Yeah, it's

Charis 50:13
like there's the scene and medicine and I love it. Denial ain't a river in Egypt?

Scott Benner 50:21
Well, well, you know what else it makes me think of is it's gonna feel disjointed for a second. But have you ever been in the mall or out somewhere, and you see a kid who's got Down syndrome, but he's 40 years old, and his mother's like 90, and she's still taking care of him. And you think to yourself, like that woman is willing herself to stay alive for that kid? You don't I mean, currently? Absolutely. That is not an uncommon thing for parents of chronically ill children to stay alive a really long time. And there's got to be something to that. You don't I mean?

Charis 50:57
Oh, absolutely. I think it's just like you will yourself to go on, you know,

Scott Benner 51:04
yeah, I don't know how that happens, technically speaking, but it just seems true. I mean, honestly, my iron that low. That looks and doctors say things all the time. Like, I don't know how you're standing and everything. But my doctor. My doctor was a hematologist. And he's like, Dude, are you okay? Like, he's like, I'm like, I'm already he goes, You're not alright. But yet, I was still up in the middle of the night taking care of Arden during that. You mean, of course, because you have to. Yeah. So it's just I don't know, there's, people have a lot of we have a lot of feeling that we don't use sometimes. Yeah. And

Charis 51:39
I almost feel like it's if you're a good parent, or a decent parent, you come to the realization, maybe it takes a few years after your kids are born, but you go, Oh, it's not about me anymore. It's about them.

Scott Benner 51:54
You're a resource all of a sudden, does that mean? You're a resource? You become a resource? I mean, that like you're a resource? Yeah. Yeah. Like in the in the, you know, oil. Like, like sets, like, I mean, your your intellectual resources. Well, but, but basically, if you think about, you know, there's the mother, and then baby and the baby's, you know, it's sucking off of you getting what it needs while it's growing. And even though it comes out in the court, it doesn't stop really. Yeah. So I mean, this morning, you and I are recording at noon. 1125 Arden's like, would you make pancakes for me? I said, Well, I have to

Charis 52:35
thank you. The reason you're

Scott Benner 52:38
recording at noon, she goes, Yeah, I know. I said, alright, well, like, let's get downstairs and like hustle. And we'll do it together. And by the time she comes down, I'm almost finished, you know? And I'm like, and it's not it's not an apples to apples, but it is. It's that she's not lazy. Like me, she can make her own food. But she asked me

Charis 52:55
like, you're a good chef, right? Listen to enough of your podcast.

Scott Benner 53:01
I don't know about you. But what I think is like, I wonder how many more times I'll get the maker pancakes, like before she moves out or something like that. So I want to do it. But you don't think of it as you're giving of yourself? A little bit. No, they're killing. Yeah, real slow.

Charis 53:16
Real. Like really slow. Away pulling it from Yeah. And then they get older and you start to reclaim yourself. But yeah, it might just give us I don't know, man.

Scott Benner 53:29
They get away with just sit down and go. I just want to see how long I get last sit in this chair. I am very tired. I can tell you that much. Put any anyway. I got up last night out of bed for something. Somebody just left the light on in the hallway. And I got up. And as I'm getting up, I said to my wife, I was like I'm done with this. She goes well, I'm like being responsible for other people. I'm very close to being done with us. So yeah. Anyway. Okay, so

Charis 53:58
you must carry like a really heavy weight, though, because you care about your listeners. So imagine that that's like, I don't know, I guess the only thing I could compare it to is is like having been a nurse and feeling responsible for other people's health. And it's a really heavy burden to carry. Yeah, there was never like that for you.

Scott Benner 54:18
Yeah, it got bad a couple of years ago. And I recognized. I said to myself, basically like you I have to let go of this to some level where I won't be able to write making the podcast because the one thing that I am, I'm very careful to do is I read everyone's correspondence. And I respond. I respond to it. It's sometimes it takes me a couple of months, but I definitely I answer people. And every day, I go through the Facebook page, and my message is for people who are sharing their successes with me or asking questions, because that seems like that seems very important. And you read and I read everything and There are times that people like I'm looking at one now, there's a lovely woman that's been on the show before. And she wants to come back on now because she's now dealing with breast cancer on top of everything else. And she and she, she thinks she's got something to share with people, and I agree with her. But, I mean, listen, I don't have breast cancer, but I still, I still read her note about it. And it's hard to read. And then you don't mean like, oh, yeah, and that's one thing. So you think that's not bad. I also, if I scroll down one, the next note is from a guy whose brother passed away, and this happened, and he wants to share this on the podcast. And then you scroll to more, and this person has a problem, and you scroll, and it's so everybody who contacts me has, like stuff going on. And so

Charis 55:46
Oh, yeah. And it's like the worst thing in the world that's happened to them. And they're just reaching out because they're in pain, right?

Scott Benner 55:52
And then so I process it. I don't take it into the level, obviously, their burden, but I process it. And then I feel it for a little while, and you're like, oh, god, she's got breast cancer. And, you know,

Charis 56:08
oh, you're an empath. I'm an empath that's like, a blessing and a curse.

Scott Benner 56:13
But also, there was a moment where it was gonna kill me. And I was like, I have, I have to stop doing this to this degree. So I don't like yeah, I found a way to read it and understand it, but I don't. I don't, I don't know. It's like, I don't put a face to it anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Charis 56:31
I know, I've seen people like on the Facebook site, say, I want to kill myself, like, I could just take insulin. And I'm like, okay, 510 years ago, I would have reached out to that person and DM them and be like, are you okay? Do you have a plan? You know, like, these are all the things you're supposed to do as a nurse. I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna report it to Facebook, and I'm gonna be okay with that. But like I've at least, reported it so that it is taken care of, by a team that is meant to handle that. And I'm not taking on as my own responsibility to fix them. Because the truth is that you can't fix them. Yeah, you know, and you want to, and you want to say something that is soothing, and will help them. But every time you do that, you just lose a little piece of yourself. If you're not careful. There's so

Scott Benner 57:24
there's two different ways to think about it too, which is interesting, which is you can't spend there. There's an never ending supply of people who are in that person's situation, right? Yep. So you never ended, right? You can't make it your burden to find all of them and to respond to all of them. Because once you respond, by the way, you're involved now. Oh, yeah, you're like, Yeah, you have no idea how many people you've heard on this podcast, who stay in contact with me, like so. Like, I know how people are doing. And even in little ways, the one that I always think of as an example, is in one of the afterdark, Jonathan, who was a young guy with bipolar. And if he's listening, I hope he's okay. But he'll message me. Yeah, he'll message me like every six months. And it just says something like, Hey, I'm doing well. But if I respond, but if I respond to him, he won't respond back. And now, or, but that and that's hard. But listen, again, I'm not I'm not comparing his situation with mine. But that's hard for me. And then, and he's one of many people, and so I don't want them to stop. But I also had to find a way to go okay, well, I hope Jonathan's okay, but I can't sit here and worry about him. Anyway, yeah. So I

Charis 58:45
didn't get in like a life coach for how to deal with that. Because, I mean, since I'm, like so empathic, and want to help people that's like, my mission in life is to help people. It just became such a burden that I was like, oh, man, I gotta come up with like, a ritual to, like, get that bad juju up.

Scott Benner 59:06
I just I learned

Charis 59:07
a lot of things to a lot of tools to do that. And it really helps. So

Scott Benner 59:14
yeah, it's a human thing. Right. Like, it's just, I just talked about it yesterday. You know, I gave a talk yesterday, to someone. And I told them that one of the things that you had I had to get past was the feeling that I was responsible for everybody. Because right, you make you make this thing. Like you have to imagine I make the podcast like I have expectations that I hope it will do what I think it's going to do, but I have no way to know did you ever think it was gonna explode like it? Yeah, there's no way to know that. And then, and then you start getting back from people. Oh, this is helping me and this is how it's helping me. And then you think, well, if I could help them, if I could reach 10 People would help 10 people, and then you do that? Yeah, right. And then you're like, Oh, I reach 10 people, I should get to 100. And then 100 becomes 1000 1000 becomes 10,000 10,000. It's like I wonder if I get With 100,000. And then when you throw 100,000, you start thinking like, why What if I get a million downloads? And then you get that you're like, I wonder if I get 2 million and then 5 million and then 10. And like, I'm almost a 10 now. And I thought it was five, wow, 10 million total downloads will happen like in the next 30 days? And oh my god as party? No, because I can't, because when I see that I think I did 5 million this year. Like, I wonder if I could do 10 million next year. And then you start thinking about how to do that. How do you make content that helps people, because when it helps people, they'll want to share it with somebody, when they share it with somebody, they'll reach 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, and those will be more people who will have the moment in their life where they can say, Here's Scott, I found this podcast, bah, bah, bah. And that part I don't care about, the part I care about is when they say my agency went from this to this and my time and range went up, and I'm happier and healthier. And I have more energy and like those come constantly. Yeah, you know, and so when you know the content is going to work. It's the burden of everyone, right? Like, it's, it's like, it means it means more to me, because I know it helps somebody. And so you just, it's always about like, how do I find more people to help? And, you know, even that I found a way to, although I guess there are people who know me would say that that's not true. I am very competitive within, like with the idea of reaching more people and helping more people. So I've taken my competitiveness and put it into a positive thing. You know what I mean?

Charis 1:01:30
Oh, yeah, I mean, so I, one of the things I wanted to tell you is that after I was in the ICU, I didn't learn anything, you know, and I'm sitting there, like, you know, got cerebral edema. And my eyes are just, like, looking underwater for it just kind of boom, happened when I they moved me from the ICU to the floor. And I'm like, What's wrong with my eyes? Nobody's paying attention my eyes. It's like, that's what I fixated on. I'm like, I can't see how am I gonna function. And we're just like, you know, you like you have diabetes, you, it'll go away, it'll be fine. You know, whatever. And I had CDE come in, and sit down and say it's because the sugar is going into the lens of your eyes. And that's like osmosis, and it's dry and water and cuz like water follows sugar. And that it like, expands the lens and distorts everything. So I ended up going to boot camp with her because it was like, I don't know. I love the comments on your podcast for people are like, nurses don't know anything. And I'm like, yeah, and they tell us that too. And nursing school, they're like, don't ever, ever, ever assume you know more about diabetes than a patient that's had it for four years. If they have a pump, they know more than you, you will never know anything. Don't take that pump away from them. Don't challenge them think that you will learn from them. That's how you're gonna I mean, but I went to nursing school. So I wish everybody got that lecture. But yeah, she taught me exactly why. And then she's like, go and get a bunch of those like little optical reader glasses that you can get, like CVS or Walmart or whatever, like a box of um, because my visual would change every day. And this is a really inexpensive solution. I just feel like, am I gonna be 1.0 magnification or 1.75? You know, how long did that go on for three months? Drive for three months, it was horrible. That asked my friends to drive my kids to school and my mom and I mean, like I was a burden. And that CD II talked about your podcast and that's how I found it. And so while I was blind, I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna listen to this

Scott Benner 1:03:55
okay, can't see it. Thanks. So I'll try

Charis 1:03:58
and and it was like your voice was like, and your podcast was like my lifeline because like, I just really they just don't teach you anything in nursing. They don't and and in medicine, medical school like it there's too many diseases out there are so many and I know that that UND is a really big deal now and I really wish I could go back to all my patients I have had to end and apologize and be like, I just thought you took insulin and it was fine. Here I am like oh my god, I had no idea no idea how hard it is and what a steep learning curve it is and how much it affects the people around them and and how little knowledge is out there. Really incomplete information and so

Scott Benner 1:04:49
first, I'm sorry, you were gonna say something nice about me. Go ahead do that first.

Charis 1:04:57
I mean, I credit a credit your podcast. First, and the CD to saving my life and just like making it better, you know? Let it help. It did, it really did and then finding the Facebook community was just huge because it was like, oh, there's all these people with it. And I don't, okay. Okay. So if I'm just like patient, and I get my levels under control, then like, I will get better. And I was religious about it. You know, I got a Dexcom, like, two weeks in or something, which I had to really fight for. It was able to get from 13, eight to 5.8. Now I had, like some lows. So that's why it was a 5.8. But that's how fast you know, I was learning and trying to figure this whole thing out, you know. And it was like, I just learned so much from the podcasts that really attributed to keeping me alive.

Scott Benner 1:05:58
Well, I'm so you're welcome. Are you trying to say thank you?

Charis 1:06:01
I'm trying to say thank you.

Scott Benner 1:06:04
I can see you, we're never gonna get to it. So you're welcome.

Charis 1:06:07
You're like, say thank you.

Scott Benner 1:06:10
You know, I don't mean that. No, we're I mean, it can be hard. Yeah, it can be hard to say that. So I appreciate that you that you had that experience, and that it was valuable for you? Because, you know, like I said earlier, I don't know what I meant when I made the podcast the first time. Like, I wasn't sure all I knew was that I had written these blogs that were helping people and that people weren't reading blogs anymore. So I wrote a book about the became

Charis 1:06:39
like, the floppy disk.

Scott Benner 1:06:43
I saw myself going the way of the dodo with that blog, right? Because people I don't know what happened to all you but nobody reads. So you know, like it just it fell apart. I actually it's when the when the internet got more clickable. Oh, like so you know, you don't you can take in information without taking in words. And then people are like, I don't want to read. So I don't want to read. And so they weren't. And I luckily I keep saying this. I keep thinking maybe she'll hear it, but probably not. I had written a book about something, not about diabetes. And I found myself like on the Katie Couric show, and I got done. Oh, that was the side and she's like, Hey, you, you're really good at talking to people. And I was like, Oh, yeah. And so when that happened, that just jumped back into my head, like a year and a half later when I thought, Oh, I'm losing, like blogging is going to hell. This is going to end. And as I thought about I was like, I really don't want this to end. But I think it is because I went from like 1.8 million clicks a year, and it was falling. And I was like, it's not me. I'm still amazing, is that people? People really aren't reading. And then I thought well, that I was good at talking to people. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll try a podcast. And so

Charis 1:07:54
that's got like the voice for it, too. So

Speaker 1 1:07:59
it does make it easier. I have to tell you like there. I don't think you're wrong. I think I've listened to podcasts before where I don't jive with the person's voice and yeah, you kind of can't do it. So and there are people who don't like my voice. I've gotten emails, really, I liked the content. I don't like your voice and I was like, Okay, I like the content. I don't like your personality. That one hurts a little more.

Scott Benner 1:08:25
My mom says I'm alright, so go to hell. And so, but no, but and again, my favorite ones are I hate that guy. But the podcast is so valuable. I listen to it anyway. Like, I think I love those. Those are my favorite. Like because I just I laugh inside thinking that right now someone's listening. And not only did they hate me, but now I'm telling them I know it and they're like, and I'm still gonna listen.

Charis 1:08:54
And then if you step back, you're gonna make money.

Scott Benner 1:08:58
Absolutely tick it tickles me to no end so you hate me and I there's an ad in this episode that I paid my electric bill with. So

Charis 1:09:06
but you just don't.

Scott Benner 1:09:08
Meanwhile, I you know, I get I get that everybody can't like, I'm gonna tell you something right now. I listen to a podcast. I hate the host. Really? I hate her cadence. I hate her voice. I hate her sense of humor. There's nothing about her that I find enjoyable. But I listen to that podcast because it teaches me about something I need to know. So I am that person. I am you if you're listening and you're like, I hate this guy, but god damn it once. He's good. Like so.

Charis 1:09:40
I'll just like deal with my irritation.

Speaker 1 1:09:43
Actually in the same situation with another podcast, just so you all know I listen to a podcast. I hate the host how guests is valuable. So yeah, oh, by the way, I don't hate her. I'm sure she's fine. Just there's a lot about her that doesn't jive with what I want to be listening to. Aesthetically. That's all she You know, times, man, I, there are times that she'll laugh. And I'll say out loud, I'm by myself and I'll say out loud Oh, shut up. That's not funny.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
When she starts telling his story, and I'm like, oh my god, wrap it up Jesus Christ. And I know people are listening to me and having the same thought. So it makes me laugh twice. Anyway,

Charis 1:10:25
tick tock versus YouTube, right? We're getting so impatient that of like, you have to have this, like, you know, listen, in a perfect world, instant gratification or whatever, you know,

Speaker 1 1:10:37
in the perfect in a perfect world, I'd get the host that I like to listen to. But turns out, she's the only one making the content. Yep, it's valuable to me. And so I put up with the fact that I don't want to be friends with this person, although she seems delightful. And I'm sure that's how other people see this. I probably don't think I'm funny or whatever. But they've been listening for a while they've seen a good health response. And like, alright, well, listen, I, you know, I can do that. Having said that, was a person one time that Arden came on once? And I think in the course of the conversation, she said that she doesn't believe in God. Right. And I got notes from people are like, I can't listen to this anymore. Oh, my gosh, are

Charis 1:11:17
you kidding me?

Scott Benner 1:11:18
I'm like, That's fine with me. I mean, you are the same person who wrote me six months ago to tell me the gray one season the fives. But I mean, this is if this is the cut your nose off to spite your face like line you want to draw on the sand. I was like, okay, whatever. But I would just mean like things like that happen. It's so funny, though. It's like, man, it's understandable, don't you think? I mean, I get it.

Charis 1:11:42
Yeah. And I think I've been challenging myself the past couple of years to like, broaden my circle of friends and like what I listen to, to be not just what I like, because then I'm creating this place where I'm just shutting myself down and having like, internal bias, and then I'm not like evolving and growing as a person. So that's what I did. With all the, you know, the past three years, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna evolve as a person. Because there's really nothing else I can do.

Scott Benner 1:12:18
We just sit here. I just as crazy as it sounds. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. I, I tried to do Oh, yeah, I took up a, it was a podcast. And I thought, I don't think I agree with the host. Yet people seem to like it. And I'm gonna listen through it. And so the host would espouse ideas. And I started to realize that there are things that I generally disagree with. And I'd have like this, like, I mean, I don't want to call it triggered, but like you, it was, it was an overreaction, say something? And I'd be like, that's not right. And then I'd realize, oh, I don't know if that's not right, or it just doesn't seem right to me. And that's exactly an important distinction. So I started listening more, to force myself to hear opinions that I didn't agree with. And that that was helpful.

Charis 1:13:10
It's very helpful, because it helps you understand the world better. I think that, you know, you're like, oh, that's why people are doing that. Now. I gotta, you know, before I was just like, I don't understand how somebody could do that. Eventually, now, it's like, oh, you know, if they listen to the other side of things, it's like, if you really ask somebody, like, what's their opinion on a controversial topic and be like, this is a safe space, I'm not going to judge you. Like, I just want to hear your side of the story. And just listen, it's like, it really expands your horizons, I think

Scott Benner 1:13:48
it teaches you not to be judgmental, as well. I just did an episode, I just did an episode a week ago that I'm going to put out in a couple of weeks, where I talked to the mom of a type one girl. And, and this mom has two daughters. They're both trans. And so like, it was like a, I had this what I thought was a really interesting conversation, where I'm trying to learn about how they think about things and you know, like, immerse myself in a world I don't know very much about and I got done, and I thought this was really good. I can't wait to put that out. And then a week later, I was like, am I gonna get in trouble for this? Like, because I don't know where to stand like, you don't you mean? And I realized I'm like, I don't care. Like it's an honest conversation. And I was honestly learning and someone else will learn will learn to and so I will absolutely put it out. And it's Yeah, I don't know like you just have to be able to get involved and hear someone say something and go I completely disagree with that. It doesn't make it wrong. And I'll tell you like you can pick the most bombastic example right like the abortion argument is that is that is a great way to like I understand pro choice people opinion and I understand pro life people's opinion. And I don't think I don't think understanding that a person's a pro life person says, Look, you're killing a baby if you have an abortion, right? Like, they say that. And then I think well, and that the other side thinks like, well, well, I want to protect the mother and bigger and bigger picture issues. And I think those things are important. And you can be right all about that, about all of that. It doesn't make what they said wrong.

Charis 1:15:30
Right? It's like, you can have different opinions and yet still respect each other. And how, like, give, I don't know, I have this thing where I just feel like I should give everybody that I interact with dignity and respect. It's like a basic human right. I know, I'm weird. But

Scott Benner 1:15:47
no, no, no, but but the point is, is that both sides can be right. Yeah. And it's just that you've decided that the things you care about in this argument are more important than the things you don't care about. So you fall on a side of it. And they feel the same exact way. And just because you're comfortable with your decisions doesn't make their decision wrong, it just means that they find more value in the parts of the discussion that they decided to take seriously. And no one sees that everybody's like, Well, I think this so that's wrong. All right. You know, and that's not the truth. You can, these are not mutually exclusive things, both. Both sides are right, they just care about, the more the details they care about are different. That's all Oh, if that makes sense or not, but

Charis 1:16:40
totally new way recently, it was like a week after Roe v. Wade was overturned, I went to my stepdad his profoundly pro life, but he doesn't ever talk about it. Like he just votes that way. And, you know, like, I've known him for 30 years. And we just never talked about it. And I sat down with him. And I was like, you know, what, I really want to hear why you're pro choice. I mean, are pro life. And I just want to hear, like your logic behind it and what that experience was like for you because he lived through when it was, you know, when 1973? Right. Yeah. And, and he said, You know, I just believe as a scientist, that life begins at conception. And so that's just my belief, and I can't get that out of my head. And who am I to tell people what to do with their body or whatever, but I just can't get that out of my head. And I was like, wow, that's just amazing that after 30 years, I finally sat down with him and was like, this is a safe place. I want to hear your experience. Because he was like, it just happened. And then, you know, people were going into clinics, and it was just shocking for him. Like almost a traumatic

Scott Benner 1:18:01
probably to learn that his opinion, wasn't that your opinion that other people's opinions don't matter, that you don't mean like, he's that in his mind. He's not anti women, or anti choice or anything like that. That's not how he processes the situation. That's not how he processes. That's, by the way, that's true for everything. So just imagine that right? Let's, I'm in charge of watching over 33,000 people talk to each other online. Whenever someone argues, it's never for the reason they think they're arguing. And you can step back as a third party and watch it and go, Oh, I see what happened here. This, this person hard, this person doesn't think that that should be the way they took it. And now everybody digs their heels in, and then they're going to argue, and I mean, obviously not the same thing as talking about big, big issues. But it's still it's still the idea. Like, there's I want to say that there's no right or wrong. There's just version, there's just like I said, there's salient details about a topic, that mean more to you than the other salient details, and then there's someone on the other side, where that's, that's flip flopped. And then you go, Well, you're wrong. They're not wrong. You know, it's, you could I mean, I had that conversation without mom, like, I understand when people say things, like, you know, like, like, did seem anti trans like, it's, it hits their brain that their brains, like can't process it, and then hear them. You hear the mom talk about the same topic from her perspective. And I go, Oh, that's, that makes 1,000% that that makes 100,000,000% sense to me. Like, I don't know how to argue with that. You know what I mean? And then the person on the other side is like, well, here's this thing that makes 100,000,000% sense to me. I don't know how anybody could argue with this. And

Charis 1:19:49
the Bible gets involved.

Scott Benner 1:19:51
And so the only way I could figure out how to like push myself past it was to listen to people that I abjectly disagreed with and to try to find their opinion It didn't make me jump to their side making error. It just made me go, Oh, I see what they're, I see why they're thinking about like this.

Charis 1:20:07
Yeah, like, like, they're not bad people, because I used to just say, Oh, they're just mad people that just have a different opinion. That was like such a young thing to say. But you know, like, as I've gotten older and like, you know, it's not so black and white. Yeah. And I think one of the things that happened during the pandemic was that my son actually said this, that it's like, we've become tribalism. So people found, you know, their people, and then they just stuck together. And I think that's one of the bad things that's happened. But there are some good things because there are people like you and I that are that can see past that and step outside of it and be like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Scott Benner 1:20:51
Well, you can just argue anything to the end of the earth. Right. And, and we slogan things, so Well, we're so good at sloganeering things. That because a great, I'll just the first one that pops into my head is meat is murder. Oh, yeah. Right here, you're like, Oh, my God, it is they killed the cow, you know, like, and then you're just like a cow, such a sweet animal. And like, I'm not certain that's right or wrong, you understand? I'm saying then someone comes along and says, Listen, we've developed over hundreds of 1000s of years to eat meat. And and we're carnivores. And you go, Oh, that makes sense, too. And then it just goes back and forth. And you think, you know, if you go out to a ranch in the middle of the Midwest, where they're ranching cattle, and I don't know, if they're branding, the cattle, there's somebody who's gonna come along, go, Oh, my God, that's you can't brand the cattle, people have been doing that for forever, that so they don't lose their cattle. And here we all are, and then you go, and then you can just, if you and I wanted to start arguing about that, I could just assign a side of the argument to you, you wouldn't even need to agree with it. And you could actively and impactfully argue that side of it, because there's so many details and slogans and concepts that you can't, you know, you can disagree with like, you're right. It's crazy. Although isn't it interesting? Like, I bet you that the meat is murder crowd is probably the pro choice crowd.

Charis 1:22:20
I think you're right. And then the pro life crowd might be the, or what is the? Well, you know, like, Wait, I don't understand the logic there. I'm sure there is some, like I just Yes.

Scott Benner 1:22:38
And that's what, by the way, when that happens, that's how the other side digs their heels in there, like so you're pro life, but pro death penalty. So we can't kill a baby where we can kill it. You've heard this argument, right? Yeah. And then you hear it over and over again, to the point where like, well, that must be a rule too. And then that's, anyway, the point is, if I may, no one's right. And no one's wrong. It just leave everybody. With your life, you know,

Charis 1:23:08
people like being on the internet. It's just such a funny thing, though. Because it's like, you know, they get so worked up. And it's like, this is just, you know, and medium to read things. And we assign emotional value to words, you know, and it's just so freaking computer. So that also is pointing you into your own little bubble with the machine learning, you know, so it's like, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:23:42
there's only a fraction of people are actually on the internet, which is hard to believe, like, so that's why Oh, yeah, only a fraction of people are on the internet. So most people don't give a shit about the argument you're having, they don't have their they get up in the morning, they're feed their kids, they're going to their work, they don't have time to decide if it's okay, that a trans man is swimming in a thing against other women. Like or, you know, it's just an example that came up in the other episode, or if you're having an abortion or not, or if like, they don't, they don't care. They're they're working, you know, so it gets focused. And you start thinking, well, the opinions I'm seeing in this space, are everyone's opinion, but it's not true. It's the opinions you're seeing that space are the opinions of people who would find themselves in that space. Right? Yeah. And that's

Charis 1:24:29
like its own kind of bias, right?

Scott Benner 1:24:33
Like you like if you're on Twitter, you think you're on Twitter with the whole world you're not you're on Twitter with people who it occurred to, to go on Twitter. And there are plenty of people who it would never occur to you to go on Twitter, and they may have different opinions than yours. Or like, you know, as an Exactly, yeah. Anyway, the point is, no one's right. No one's wrong. Shut up. That's it. I'm not right either.

Charis 1:24:53
Yeah, we need to you need to put that on your Facebook page right now because like some of them are

Scott Benner 1:25:00
Oh, no, it's Christmas. Oh, and so here's what happens at Christmas. Everyone's anxiety goes up, and they get chippy. Yep, you know, chippy it's a hockey term, I think. Just you know, and so every year around this time, I just put up a message about Christmas. I just thought that I'm gonna read it. And then we're gonna get done here. So I said, the goose is getting fat. Christmas is coming. And that can mean only one thing. It's time for me to remind everyone that this time of year can come with heightened feelings. Please remember to offer your fellow travelers the benefit of the doubt, communication is key. It is highly unlikely that anyone is with you. Oh,

Charis 1:25:44
I remember that. And I totally love that you said

Scott Benner 1:25:49
peace on earth and all that

Charis 1:25:54
is your best first.

Scott Benner 1:25:56
But it's interesting like to be involved in something like this over time, you start seeing how cyclical things are. Yeah, oh, it's this time of year, people get a little upset. This happens. And then you start seeing arguments in specific areas pick up you're like, oh, it's time for them to argue about this again. It's interesting. Trust me, your free will is not as free as you think it is. That's true. Yeah, Christmas is coming. You get upset, you can't afford something. You're thinking about having to get back together with your family that you don't want to get back together with or you want to get together with a family member but you can't afford to travel or something. And then anxiety builds up. Then you see a lady online say they eat low carb and you're like you must

Charis 1:26:41
see that. Like that's all carbs, I need the carbs. I just want the life with the carbs I just before

Scott Benner 1:26:54
the food choices around diabetes are such an interesting thing. Like it fits right into this passionate about it. Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate their passion, but Shut up. Like other people can eat a different way. And if it kills them, guess what? It's there. Yeah, it's not it's not that hard.

Charis 1:27:14
It's like with with that with that little freewill. They have that choice. You know,

Scott Benner 1:27:20
I had somebody tell me recently, like, I disagree with your eating style. But I think this podcast is great. And I thought

Charis 1:27:28
oh, are they ended up with that guy's name? The crazy diet guy.

Scott Benner 1:27:34
Well see now you've said crazy diet guy. So I'm not gonna guess anyone's name. Because I don't care how people eat. I genuinely don't like if you know, I really don't care

Charis 1:27:42
super low carb. And I don't

Scott Benner 1:27:44
think you listen, if you want to eat super low carb. I don't think you're crazy. I think they're on the worst for you. Yeah,

Charis 1:27:50
but yeah, that's totally their choice. But

Scott Benner 1:27:54
come after her. Leave me alone. It's Dr. Bernstein. I was like, I knew what you meant, but I wasn't gonna say it. So, because, and seriously, because I don't think they're crazy. I think that they found. Yeah, they found something that works for them. I don't understand why they can't be happy when other people want to try to find a different thing that works for them too. But it's okay. And And meanwhile, that's also an over exaggeration. Everybody who eats low carb doesn't go online and yell at people. It's a small consortium of people who if I'm being honest, seem like they're trying to make a living off it a little bit. And so it's good to kind of keep the argument going because it draws people in. And this is where I'll tell the story. That when I wrote that book I talked about earlier, it sold for a month, like a best seller. I couldn't figure out why. Like I was top I think I was in the top 50 on Amazon, all books, all books for like, for like a week. So as this was happening, Somebody contacted me and said, see your books like number 46 in the country. And I'm like, that's not right. And then I went look, and it was, and I was like, How is this happening? So here's how it happened. There was the interview I did with Katie Couric that got reposted on Yahoo. Maybe? And oh, yeah. Okay, and it made its way to the front page of Yahoo. And comment on it. And an argument ensued, that if I was a stay at home father, it meant I was a closeted homosexual. Oh, wow. That was that was the argument. This was like 2013. And then people would come in and say that's not true. And, and then they argued with each other. And while they were arguing, you know what happened? Next people bought the book.

Charis 1:29:47
People buy the book, because they want to read what's this about? So my

Scott Benner 1:29:51
wife says to me, does it bother you that this argument is happening around you? And I was like, No. Bonus, people are buying the book. And so I think of that the same way with these arguments about how people eat. Like, you don't see, you never see just a guy arguing with somebody about you shouldn't eat carbs, you'll see a guy who's got a Facebook page about low carb, and he likes to coach people about it, or he's selling a video where he wants to get you back to his YouTube or something like that those people are happy to argue, because that argument gins up eyes, then there's a bunch of eyes in there, and then they grab some of the eyes. Yep. And those eyes become funny. And there's money behind that. So that's really, that's how you see it happen. I can even think of people who run great Facebook groups around an idea that is not monetized. And those people are not argumentative, the people who are argumentative, monetizing something somewhere, because as long as the people are arguing about whether or not I'm gay, some percentage of those people go by the book. So we argue about how we eat and some percentage of those people end up on my website, or it's someone else's website. And they're buying a six week course and how to do something, or they're donating to their 501 C three about how they eat or something. Trust me, it's

Charis 1:31:16
not Yeah, there's undercurrents of everything was a whole influencer thing.

Scott Benner 1:31:21
So when you get caught up in those arguments, just realize that you have been purposefully drawn into that argument by someone who just wants your IP address or, or something like that. Anyway, that's all I have for you. This was good, you're good. Yeah, I gotta, I'm out of time. So I gotta stop. Go take care of your kids. I got to figure out what Cole wants. And I gotta get to a meeting in a little bit. So yeah,

Charis 1:31:49
it was such a pleasure talking to you. I just want you to know, the Keep doing what you're doing and sending out, you know, positive energy in the world where not everybody does. Well, you're making a difference.

Scott Benner 1:32:04
I appreciate that. You should know that. I tried two different tactics with you because you are like, you have a lot of energy. Yeah, right. And so I tried matching your energy. And that didn't work. Because some sometimes if you match it, like everybody levels, and then so that I tried going opposite. So people were still listening can think about this, then I tried going opposite of you to see if I could draw you towards me. It was just an exercise for me. I know which one were neither of them. You blue bass, both of them.

Charis 1:32:36
That sounds like me. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 1:32:39
Neither of them worked. I thought maybe I could because I wanted you like 10% less. And so it's okay, by the way, you were terrific. But I but I thought well, I'll match her and then she'll, she'll feel my energy and come down that Yeah. Oh, real low key, and I'll try to pull her towards me. And that didn't work either.

Charis 1:32:57
That's because I am like this. Daughter of a very powerful woman.

Scott Benner 1:33:04
Oh, you're fighting? You fight for your space a lot.

Charis 1:33:07
Yeah. All right. All right. Got that model to me. So I'm not afraid to speak up. And it gets me in trouble all the time.

Scott Benner 1:33:18
Not to me. I know.

Charis 1:33:21
I'd have something to say. And so. Yeah, so as does everybody else. And yeah, so. I mean, I

Scott Benner 1:33:30
think it's great. Good for you. Great.

Charis 1:33:34
I think one thing that I forgot to mention was, like the whole link between COVID and diabetes, because people are gonna be like, Why is this? Why are we talking about COVID?

Scott Benner 1:33:44
Oh, yeah, that is what you wanted to come on.

Charis 1:33:47
I totally forgot until just when you're

Scott Benner 1:33:50
like I'm out of time. Give it Give it to me.

Charis 1:33:53
There's only studies out I find them interesting. I don't know if that's what caused me to get it I think it is my doctor's thinking is but they've done a study with 200,000 people. And it was saying that people got COVID had like a two times as likely chance to then go on into develop either type one or type shoot down the road about six months thereafter. If I'm not just like, fascinating, because

Scott Benner 1:34:22
I mean, now listen, viruses can your kick they kick your immune system in and if you're predisposed to type one, then you might be thinking I listen. I I'm my son got COVID I was like, Oh, come on. Come on. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's only been a couple of months since he got it. So I mean, I'm having said that most of the people I've had on who were COVID than type one, it happened pretty quickly. But that's, that's anecdotal. Like that's just the people that I spoken to so far. But yeah,

Charis 1:35:00
yeah, it's interesting. It's just, I mean, and there's arguments. The virus actually attacks beta cells. And then, you know, other scientists are like, No, it doesn't. And so who knows?

Scott Benner 1:35:13
Yeah, back to our original conversation, actually our fourth conversation, trust.

Charis 1:35:19
Me Maybe think the one we had was better. So, yeah, no, I just think it's funny how there's so many different kinds of diabetes. I did not know that there's, like 10, or something. Last time I.

Scott Benner 1:35:32
I did an episode about that. There's like an endless there's types of diabetes. Lis Yeah.

Charis 1:35:38
Had a roommate at this time diabetes retreat I went to in Costa Rica, and she had mid. And you're like, hey, what? So that's mitochondrial inherited diabetes that comes with deafness.

Scott Benner 1:35:57
Okay. While no, it's not because Jenny and I did an episode about it. And we Oh, my God, like, there's diabetes type eight or something I forget. But it's, it's Oh, I

Charis 1:36:10
know. Like, it just opened my mind in my eyes to like, how different it is, and yet how we're all kind of going through the same thing. So back to your original point of you know, this, I see this a lot on your Facebook page, like, let's get rid of the type twos. And I'm like, that's, you know, 90.

Scott Benner 1:36:33
So it's interesting that you, it's interesting that it appears to you that way, because I have my I think if you see a couple of people say a thing, you think, Oh, I hear that all the time. But I see. I see all of it. And I've only heard it a couple of times. But it is a weird thing. It strikes me as like, like, I don't want to type two people here because we're talking about type one. And I keep pointing back to the type two people have been on the podcast and say, like, listen to these people who have, you know, needed insulin as type twos and how they're basically managing just the same way you do and how much better you know. So it's, it's about insulin, if you're using manmade insulin, the podcast should be valuable to you. Definitely. That's what I think so. All right. I have to go. This was lovely. Thank you very much. Hold on one second for me. Oh, my pleasure.

Huge thanks to Karis for coming on the show and sharing her story with us. Thanks to AG one drink, ag one.com forward slash juice box. And, of course, touched by type one, where you can find on Facebook, Instagram, and it touched by type one.org. You've got to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. It's a private group that now has I think, 43,000 members in it. It's jumping. So many posts, questions, statements, ideas and things that you'll dig on and enjoy reading more about. You might even want to jump in Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

don't forget that diabetes Pro Tip series begins at episode 1000 In your player and goes to 1026. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.

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#1050 Kick The Goat

Kristin is divorced and her child has type 1 diabetes.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1050 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today, I'll be speaking with Kristen, she's the mother of a child with type one diabetes. Gonna talk about a number of different things here. I think Arden comes up in this episode, I think I call her doing it or text or something. And what else happens? Oh, Kristen is divorced. We talked about that with the impact of diabetes management, and a lot more. Honestly, I don't know what to call this one, so the title is probably not going to make any sense. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan are becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com You can go get yourself sheets towels and clothing and save that 40% With the offer code juice box at checkout. You can also get a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first order of ag one at mydlink. Drink ag one.com/juice box

the podcast is sponsored today by better help better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox to get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy. That way BetterHelp can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. You can message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Talk to them however you feel comfortable text chat phone or video call. If your therapist isn't the right fit for any reason at all. You can switch to a new therapist at no additional charge. And the best part for me is that with better help you get the same professionalism and quality you expect from in office therapy. But with a therapist who is custom picked for you, and you're gonna get more scheduling flexibility, and a more affordable price. betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox that's better help h e l p.com. Forward slash juice box.

Kristin 2:44
My name is Christian. I am a caretaker for re an eight year old type one diabetic.

Scott Benner 2:52
Okay, right is eight. How old was he when he was diagnosed?

Kristin 2:56
She was Yeah, yeah. It's R EY like the Star Wars girl.

Scott Benner 3:02
Aren't you? Oh, like Ray. That's beautiful like that. I love that. Yeah. Okay. So she I'm sorry. So she was how old?

Kristin 3:13
She was six. So it was we're about in our two year in May two years.

Scott Benner 3:18
Okay, how did it present?

Kristin 3:22
Yeah. So she had had COVID in April of 2021. And then a couple weeks later started throwing up. And it was so funny because her sister I just had a stomach bug. So we really just thought no big deal. And then after a couple days, her dad took her to the ER because he said she seemed really lethargic all of a sudden. So I don't know quite what that looked like. But yeah, then she went to the ER, they gave her fluids and did the normal thing where they say, Okay, this is the fluid just go on home. And then right, then she started hallucinating. And then they said, nevermind. Let's keep her here a few more seconds. And then somebody finally thought to check her blood sugar, which I think was, you know, close to 700. And then it all became clear.

Scott Benner 4:04
Wow, they got to the blood sugar that quickly.

Kristin 4:08
Well, you know, it had been, I think it had been four or five hours of kind of like, okay, let's get fluids and monitor and she seemed so much better. So it did take some time. And then not long after, you know, the CDC came out with that report that said COVID leads to type one, so check for it. So I was really grateful thinking, you know, maybe next time they wouldn't have to be like super far into decay before it was, you know, discovered if someone came in post COVID They would just check. Select sugar right away.

Scott Benner 4:34
Yeah, someone would think Oh, look. Yeah. Okay. So that's a couple of years ago already. Right? How long was she in the hospital for?

Kristin 4:45
About four days? Four days.

Scott Benner 4:47
Did that seemed long to you? Or did that seem about right?

Kristin 4:51
You know, it was all kind of a fever dream. You know, I didn't sleep at all the first two nights because it was just so scary. The first night she was So, just still really hallucinating and kind of terrified and miserable. And then, and they kind of told me, you know, you're going to be here for a long time, eventually we'll transfer you to another hospital where you can, you know, go to diabetes school, but we got to stabilize, it could be a week here. So they were really telling me, I had it in my head, like, Okay, we're gonna be here for weeks. So in some senses it it seemed quick. But in other senses, you know, I'm, I've never been admitted at the ER before we always just go in and they say, Okay, go home. Right. So, in that sense, it just felt really surreal to be in a hospital for so many days. And they did transfer us but it was really just about two, two and a half days. And then she was at an ICU. And then then they had beds, the local children's hospitals, they moved us over there to like, go to diabetes school, and then we were there for, I think, just two nights and then came home.

Scott Benner 5:54
No context for diabetes at all in your family or anything like that.

Kristin 5:58
Yeah, so her dad's sister is type one, and it just never occurred to me. I don't think I understood that there could be some genetic links. And so I just didn't even think about that. And I was kind of curious if if he if her dad thought about that. When he took her in.

Scott Benner 6:21
Kristen, you broke up. I'm sorry, Sandra. You, Chris. I'm sorry. You broke up. You were wondering if? And so I think we're I'm not clear on this. So are you in her father not together?

Kristin 6:33
That's right, right. Yeah, we're divorced.

Scott Benner 6:35
So you, you said you wondered if that was in his mind when when he went to the hospital? But you don't know.

Kristin 6:42
Yeah, I don't know. And I have to guess no, just because I think he would have said somebody check her blood sugar sooner. If he had that in his mind at all. But yeah,

Scott Benner 6:52
you know, the longer I do this, I used to be kind of more shocked by that. Like, yeah, why would somebody not think of that, but then the longer I do it, I just think that that's not how it works. You know, we were talking to my son recently. And you know, Arden's had diabetes since she was two. Right? So for, you know, almost like two full decades, they live together with diabetes. And my son said something the other day, and I was like, that's not how that works. And he goes, No, and I'm like, You don't know that? And he goes, No, I guess I don't. And I and so extrapolating that forward, like trying to put my son in a situation 15 years from now, and he's in the ER with a baby going, I don't know what's wrong with this baby. Like, I don't know, if he would think to say, you know, my sister has type one diabetes. And

Kristin 7:41
right, yeah, it's strangely not top of mind. And I feel like I everywhere I go, I tell people like, Hey, did you know this is how she was diagnosed? Did you know that most type ones are diagnosed in adulthood? Now? Did you know because I just feel so traumatized by the experience. And I just think, how do we stop diagnosing and DKA it is a horrible experience, and how nice it would be to just routinely check it or have it more top of mind. But you know, it's just one of those things. It's rare enough that people don't think of it

Scott Benner 8:11
right. Yeah, the other side of that is, it's funny, you're bringing, it's really ironic that you're bringing this up, because right before we jumped on, I was running through my messages. There's this message from this person is like, you know, I'm doing a project for my journalism class, and my father has type one diabetes, and people don't understand that enough. And I was wondering if and blah, blah, blah, may ask the question. My thought was, well, you don't want me involved in this. Because what I'm gonna say to you is, I think it's completely reasonable that people don't understand type one diabetes. And then what's, what's the alternative? Like? What do we do we like, take a week out of everyone's life, and sit them down and explain everything in the world that could possibly go wrong to them? Because, yeah, that sounds like that would be overwhelming. And it's, but I take everyone's point when they're like, you know, it shouldn't get to this point. And it'd be so easy for doctors to do a finger stick check when they're certain symptoms arise. And I kind of, that's why I think it's more on the medical side, like, you're not just going to randomly expect everyone to understand, but if at least, no,

Kristin 9:10
you're right, because there's so many autoimmune disorders that I have so little information about, and it does seem like it must be frustrating to Dino to somebody else who doesn't understand like G tube and, you know, feeding tubes and stuff like that. And I just don't, I think the real frustration comes in, you're right, when medical folks seem to not get it, which I think we all run into. I see it you know, every day on the Facebook page, people run into medical staff that don't quite get it, which is very frustrating and or folks who kind of assume they get it, you know, and I think you know, maybe is it just like we need to respect each other more to understand that, you know, whatever you're going through, you're the expert of that. And yeah, I mean, I think doctors should know we had a dentist just tell us, we should be able to manage her type one with medication and we should stop giving her treatments for low's

Scott Benner 10:00
Really? Yeah, a physician told you that?

Kristin 10:03
Yeah, her dentist at the last appointment was like, Yeah, I think that's, I think you're thinking of type two and she was like, So you're telling me that her doctor wants her to have sugar? That was like, look, let's just move on here. Okay, I understand. I'm gonna try to avoid lows for you. All right, but that's, I'm not gonna get to a low and say, You know what? Your doctor doesn't want you to have sugar let's let's do something else.

Scott Benner 10:26
Sweet. In lieu of a vote cavity. Why don't we just dropped it right now instead? I don't want to have a cavity. Well, you know, cuz that's expensive for me. Yeah. Oh, my God. Insurance for dentistry is terrible. I was sitting in a in an infusion center recently getting an iron infusion, right? And I'm sitting there. And I've been there a number of times, I now have what I would loosely call a relationship with one of the nurses. And she just says like, what do you do for a living? And I was like, Oh, I make a podcast. And that's already a leap. People are just like, what now? You know, and then you're like, Well, I make a podcast and and then they go, Well, I don't understand how is that a job? Podcast reaches a lot of people. And then advertisers buy ads. And so I make a podcast and she's coming online. Right? Yeah. And then she goes, um, what's it about? And I said, diabetes? And she goes, Do you have diabetes? And I went, No. I was like, but then I explained that whole other thing, and she had met Arden once she's like, Oh, that little girl. And I'm like, Yes. And she's not little anymore. Go through this whole thing. Anyway, this leads into her telling me about her experience with diabetes and the hospital, and all the people that she saw, and what she tells people, and I want to tell you that about 87% of what she said wasn't accurate. Hey, guys, just jumping in to remind you that one of our sponsors better help is offering 10% off your first month of therapy, when you use my link better help.com forward slash juicebox. That's better. H e l p.com. Forward slash juicebox. Better help is the world's largest therapy service is 100%. Online boasts over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists. And you can talk to them however you want text chat phone or on video, you can actually message your therapist at any time and schedule live sessions when it's convenient for you. Better help.com forward slash juicebox save 10% On your first month. Oh, wow. And so I was just sitting there like making a decision. I had like a, you know, a needle in my arm. And I'm sitting, and I'm gonna be there for the next hour and I just nodded through. I was like, Uh huh, uh huh. Yeah. Oh, oh. Uh huh. Thank you. And then I she said one thing that was so egregious that I turned her on it. And then I was like, What am I going to do? Like she's running around, by the way, I'm the only person they're lucky enough not to have cancer in an infusion center, you know? And so she's running around doing her job. And what am I gonna like, pull her aside and go, Hey, listen, you fundamentally don't understand any of the things that you just said, like, what would she have done next? You know,

Kristin 13:05
I mean, you could give her some episode numbers. Right? Well, I

Scott Benner 13:08
told her about the podcast, and I told her how to listen to it. I thought maybe she'll figure something out. She had worked in a hospital. And she knew she knew enough to deal with it the way hospitals deal with it when you're admitted, but you're not admitted for your diabetes. I guess it's the that's what she That's right. Yeah. But she thought she understood it. 100%.

Kristin 13:29
Yeah. And I think that's just the that's really the tricky part is just and that, I don't know, I have a little bit less empathy for that. I think I understand that folks in medical settings, have to just know so much information, but it does feel to me, especially when it comes to chronic illness that there, there could definitely stand to be a crash course or two about like, Okay, how do you deal with this? You know, when somebody's here, just like you said, I guess my only thought on that is that and this is generally how I feel with endos. It's like they have one job. And then as parents and caregivers or type ones, ourselves, we have a different job. And so we're going to fundamentally disagree. And that's not necessarily because we disagree. Does that make sense? It's because we just have different roles. And if you're a you know, medical professional, your job is public health, which means, you know, the best possible advice that's going to work for the largest group of people keeping things like compliance in mind. Yeah, and that's just going to be different advice than you would give your own child. I'm sure even an endo would say that.

Scott Benner 14:36
Oh, no, absolutely, uh, your your goals and their goals are different. You would think they're the same, but if you stop and really consider it, they're not you're you're talking about day to day, minute to minute care. And they're like, look, you're gonna be here for 48 hours. I don't want you to have a seizure while you're here. So we're going to keep your blood sugar at 200. Like that's,

Kristin 14:55
they're talking about advice that's going to work for every diabetic that comes in and I I always just say like, look, you're you're doing a great job for diabetics. But I, you know, I care in a broader sense about diabetic people. But in a specific sense, I care about one diabetic and that's my daughter.

Scott Benner 15:13
Yeah. And we're not going to let you do that today. So yeah, so it's something to stick up for yourself. You just sort of you educate in the moment for that moment, like, you're not trying to change their mind forever and ever, you're just trying to get you through that situation. And maybe that information sticks with the nurse or the physician or whatever. And they carried along to the next one, which is my expectation. And you know, Jenny always points out to me, adult endos overwhelmingly see type two patients and not type one patients. That's right. Yeah, yeah. If you have a child with type one, then you get this. It's a different experience. Like you go into a children's hospital, you know, generally speaking, and everything's very, I don't know how to put it like, it's nice. It's like you're ordering off the menu. You don't I mean, like, the place is really clean. And they tell you everything you need to know when you're having an experience. And like, and when you get to an adult, no, it's like, Hey, hi. What do you need insulin here, get out?

Kristin 16:12
Yeah, it's different. And it kind of relates to what you said is, you know, advocating in the moment for that moment and not trying to change the big picture. I think that is exactly perfect advice to deal with school nurses to you know, I was just talking about this with somebody else. But I feel like with school nurses that can feel like you need to get on the same page in a, in a broader sense. And you really just don't, you really just have to say, okay, how can we get this need met? And this moment? How do we make it so that, you know, I can call the shots in this particular moment, and then we can move on. But I think it can cause a lot of problems for families when they're trying to make sure you guys agree about type one management and that just might not happen.

Scott Benner 16:58
Yeah. Hey, listen, I'm sorry to do this in the middle of this, but I'm gonna call Arden because she's wearing a new CGM. And I don't know if the blood sugar I'm seeing is of a grand concern or not accurate. So I apologize. Hold on one second. I'm not going to stop the recording. So just give me a sec. Okay.

haven't done this in a while. On the podcast, I mean, she just texted me the word stop. So I'm assuming.

Kristin 17:32
Oh, my God, that's so funny. All right. Stop calling because I got this stop calling.

Scott Benner 17:42
Leave me alone. I'm trying to blah, blah, blah. She's probably running around or something like that. It's just it's a new sensor. And I sent her a text this morning. And I said, Hey, can you please calibrate this. And then there's a setting she has to flick kind of flip a switch and loop that she hasn't flipped yet. And now she's made a Bolus. A big she had a meal, very obviously, about 55 minutes ago. And at the moment, the CGM is indicating a 53 blood sugar with an arrow straight down. It just switched over now to 48. So I'm gonna guess that her blood sugar is not really 48 and it's clearly stopping like, so she knows the foods hitting her so she's not worried. And I mean, I've done what I can

Kristin 18:26
now only drops for like that. That's when I kind of sigh

Scott Benner 18:31
Yeah, it's, it's like it's just a brand. It's a brand new sensor. So I don't know if it's, like settled in well, or, you know, whatever. So, and I can never well, not never, but the process of getting her to test around a new sensor is she's she doesn't she hates it. She won't do it. Yeah, it will. She does it but I have to like cajole her sometimes. Yeah. So like, let's just check. You know, it's like, it's a couple hours old. Like, let's just be sure. Anyway, well, that was fun.

Kristin 19:04
I love the one word text. My daughter will just text me one word help sometimes. It drives me nuts. I'm like, Look, there are lots of things that that could mean and that's very stressful for me. It could mean you know you're feeling low. It can mean there's a shooter in a hallway. God forbid please text me something more descriptive than the word help mommy clean it means she wants to come home.

Scott Benner 19:27
Mommy, are you seeing the meteors falling out of the sky to down Shaolin pleases adjectives down to I can't think of the word I need for Exactly. Very helpful. Well, artists,

Unknown Speaker 19:39
my nerves can't take that word.

Scott Benner 19:41
Arden's direct she must be I'm guessing based on the time of day, she's rushing around to get to a class. Like she's, I think she's in her dorm room getting ready to leave. And she's she doesn't have the time to give away to me and my concerns for her safety. So anyway, we'll keep an eye on that as it goes because You know, whatever. Alright, so anyway, so yes, there's diabetes in the family. But no, nobody was thinking about it. You're divorced. And so am I to take from that there's not a ton of communication, or is the communication good?

Kristin 20:16
I know and maybe, yeah, it's okay. I would say that we kind of the way that we manage it is that we just do things separately. So like, even on her pump, we have separate profiles. And she kind of knows, okay, I just got to mom's I got to switch over to the mom profile. And I think in the beginning, we really tried it to kind of communicate and collaborate and it just, we just can't do it. We can't do it. Yeah, we just keep things pretty separate. And that makes it okay. I think it took us a couple years post diagnosis to kind of chill out about it and not think, okay, when she goes the other house, something terrible is gonna happen. We kind of settle and know that everyone's doing their best. Her agency is fine. She's doing fine. So yeah, I think that's about as good as it gets. For us.

Scott Benner 21:07
There's two management styles.

Unknown Speaker 21:08
Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 21:12
I think I heard a lot in that. Oh, yeah. But okay. So it's a little higher and not as focused at one house. And at the other. You're a little more on top of things. Is that fair enough? Yeah. I

Kristin 21:25
mean, I think that's about how it feels. And I, I will say that I could go into clarity, for example, and try to measure and say, hey, look, on these days of the week, is she really more on range? I'm not going to go down that path. I don't feel like it's good for anybody. But my guess is you would see a better time and range. You know, I have my moments she was high last night. And I didn't truly know why overnight. And that's unusual. So I have times, you know, a sense or a one of those call this infusion site seems to fail or something and I have a she goes up high. But I want to say for the most part, I feel like I know what I'm doing. Fat pizza is still hard for me, but it's getting way better. But I feel like everything else, you do a secondary cupcakes, I can do cereal, like, Oh, that's good to go. And it I think the sense I get from the other house, at least in the beginning is that like, they don't mind if blood sugar is up high, as long as it comes back down within three hours. And that's kind of what they were told. And as far as I can tell, they follow the endo advice kind of perfectly. And and, you know, that is kind of the endo advice that that's okay. And I don't That to me is not a We missed you know what I mean? If we're up over 200. That's not like fine with me.

Scott Benner 22:48
So would you say that it's not apathy, right? Like they're doing? They're doing what they're supposed to be doing? It's just not what you would be hoping?

Kristin 22:57
That's right. Yeah. And I think I had to kind of come to that place in the beginning, where it was like, look, it's not like they're not giving her insulin. They're troubleshooting. When she's high, and trying to do something about it. They're up at night. And I think they both heard step by step mom there. I don't think they're married. But there anyway, she lives with them and has for years, they are doing their best. And I feel confident about that. And I say that was about 86% confidence. It's not that low. Yeah, that's not bad. So I'll take it 86%

Scott Benner 23:30
from a person who just said, I don't think they're married, which would indicate you don't have a ton of insight.

Kristin 23:39
You know, it's not my business. I think at first step parents, she does all the parents do stuff. And, you know,

Scott Benner 23:47
very nice. I mean, can you talk a little bit about what that's like, in the beginning, though, when, like, not now. But when you're doing a thing, I guess, five days a week, and then on two days, or however you're broken up, then it just changes? Does it make you mental? Are you like, Oh, my God, how did it hit you? And how did you get through it?

Kristin 24:08
Yeah, no, it was definitely really challenging. And I sound chill about it now, but I wasn't and I often am not. I mean, it comes up still, for sure. Because I think as a parent of a kid who has higher needs I, my, the way my trauma from the hospital has manifested is in hyper vigilance. And I have that's been a light switch that's turned on for me that as a first time thing prior to this, I was a very laid back parent to a fault. You know, we'd get places and I'd be like, Oh, God, we didn't eat a meal. That's so funny, you know, or, you know, we get to school without backpacks. That was just kind of normal. And that is not how I am anymore, you know, by necessity. And so it's very difficult when she's not here. I would say my anxiety is pretty high every night she's not here. Yeah, I mean, it's it's just so hard not being able to To control your kids well being as a parent period any time, but especially when there's something that does need so much input, and then you're physically not in the same house, that's really challenging. I think early on, there was a lot more. I think the kind of broad Crude Story We kind of told about our management styles was that she was always low at my house, and she was always high at their house. And I don't think either of those things were ever true. But that was kind of the story. So then there was like, extra anxiety every time she did go low here, because I felt like I was like, proving that story. Correct. And it was very stressful for me. Sometimes I would hear about it. And that was really hard. I didn't know in the beginning, how things would turn out. And I think now that we've had enough time, I can see, you know, over all, and you know, maybe 69% and range over there, maybe 70. And that's, you know, she's more in range here. So it evens out. So,

Scott Benner 26:03
yeah, can I ask them like in this situation, like just now with art? Which, by the way, do you think people are listening going, like, is art and alive? Could someone fill me? I'll tell you in a second or so but, but in a situation like this, if you were looking at like a dropping arrow, and it was frightening. You have the ability to call the house and say hi, is someone seeing this? Or is that not something you guys have?

Kristin 26:29
No, we don't have that. And you know what? I don't I don't look, I turn off on my alarms. And I don't wear my watch because otherwise I can't sleep.

Scott Benner 26:38
Yeah, no. Well, that Oh, Kristin. That's what I'm that's the thing I'm imagining like right now. If I wasn't able to reach out to somebody, like what would I do with the with the feeling you don't? I mean, I guess?

Kristin 26:52
Call therapist? Yeah, you know, it's, it's hard for sure. I have a lot of misplaced hypervigilance, and I think it lands on other stuff.

Scott Benner 27:01
Is your dining room very clean, or something?

Kristin 27:04
No, but I I started the grad school program. And I really do think that, you know, I think as far as I'm still I'm still the jury's still out on if me going into grad school is a misplaced way to spend my anxiety dollars, but I think it's okay, you know, it's me pouring into something that I can like research and learn more about and really do something productive, because I'm going to school to become a diabetes social worker. So it's it's a way for me to channel all of that like energy into the the stuff that I can control when I know ultimately, I have to just trust because calling Yeah, calling I did that once or twice. It doesn't it doesn't end well doesn't go well.

Scott Benner 27:51
It turns into the exact reason you're divorced.

Kristin 27:54
Yeah. It just doesn't promote. Uh, yeah. It doesn't do what I intended it to do. I'll just say that.

Scott Benner 28:04
It doesn't do what I do. Now. In fact, I wouldn't be fair in fairness, do you get on the phone? You're like you guys are killing or you're not paying attention? Or is it? Hi? Does it just know it's a mistrust? Even if you're like, Hi, I just saw that blood sugar's falling really quickly. And I was concerned and wanted to make sure that that just goes the wrong way.

Kristin 28:23
Yeah, I think every once in a while I have texted but yeah, I think in general, we try to keep contact really specific to logistics. And anytime there's other stuff. I would say I get more feedback than I give. And how old are you? What's that old? Are you? 37?

Scott Benner 28:45
Is your husband or your ex husband a similar age? Yes. How long were you together for

Speaker 3 28:49
abouts? Seven, eight years, something like that to meet

Scott Benner 28:53
when you were very young?

Kristin 28:54
Oh, we're in college. So average time

Scott Benner 28:58
I gotcha. Okay. I'm just trying to, like pick, you're doing such a lovely job of like, talking around at being you know, you're doing a good job of explaining your situation. There's just a couple of little details I don't have. Okay, so we understand how difficult that is, and you focused it into something else. And you because I'm imagining in those gaps of time, they probably just feel like time is paused. Right? Like they're like, the girls are gone. And then you're just sitting there like paused waiting for your turn again, hoping.

Kristin 29:32
Yeah, it's it was a it is it's still hard. You know, I kept thinking after a couple of years, I'll get used to them not being here. And I really haven't and still find it challenging. But I do think part of it is that experience I had in the hospital which really just rewired my brain. And I found like, you know in the couple of months, up to a year after I really just felt so spaced out

Scott Benner 30:00
So you're breaking up,

Kristin 30:01
hopefully remote at work, but I would get a call from the nurse. And it was like my brain was electric, I could think of a million things at once I knew every, you know, how many carbs was in each part of her lunch, and I could do any of that math. And I knew where all the supplies were and where the insurance did it. And so it was like all of my sharpness was like, retained for this one thing that was so anxiety inducing, and then everything else just felt like soup. And it's, it's not unlike that now, it's just much less extreme.

Scott Benner 30:32
Did you go to therapy? Is that how you got to this point?

Kristin 30:35
I have always been in therapy. But yeah, I did specifically call someone and say to

Scott Benner 30:43
them, Chris, I'm so sorry. You broke up. I'm getting like an unstable internet connection message from your side. So I'm not sure shoot. You've always been in therapy you called someone you called someone in what? Yeah, I

Kristin 30:56
called somebody and specifically said, I could use some help with this. And I don't want to talk about my feelings. I just really need someone to help me with the here and now kind of logistics of balancing this stuff.

Scott Benner 31:10
So in that calm in those conversations, what what was valuable for you?

Kristin 31:15
Oh, gosh, what a good question. I don't I don't really know, I think, a sounding board, I think, you know, you need connection to what's real. I feel like, you know, you just such a good job with that. There's a lot of, because our kids kind of are like, it's it's so hard to explain diabetes, right? Because it's like, listen, they're fine. They just could die. And like, those things are both true at the same time. And so you have to kind of balance between like what's real and that so like, yeah, your kid is has a 50 blood sugar, that sucks. But they're not actually really close to death, right? Like, kind of, how do you kind of ground yourself in that reality that they that if things keep going badly, they could die, but they probably will keep going badly? Because they're going to eat something?

Scott Benner 32:05
Yeah, because people don't understand. They don't have context for what you're saying. And it really is true. Like, I've listened. I've tried many times to explain it to somebody where I didn't sound crazy. That was always my I was like, Where can I get this out without me sound like I'm like being like, over the top, you know, hey, if her blood sugar is falling, and we don't do anything, it's going to end very poorly. But if we do something, it'll likely be fine. But we want to be vigilant about it and pay attention till we know speaking of vigilance, Arden's blood sugar's 16. Excuse me, 660 now, and obviously, her food hit her a few minutes later than she expected for it to. It's like 100% What's happening here? She made a nice.

Kristin 32:46
It's not still in a 57. I'm

Scott Benner 32:48
gonna guess from what I'm seeing on the Dexcom Oh, there it is. 72. Yeah, this is it. So that's why I got the stop email. Because what stopped means is, it's interesting, right? Because I'd have this conversation is coming together. But it's not much different than you calling your ex. Because I pick I picked her for a very good reason. Like, no one would say that what I did wasn't reasonable. Right. But in her world, this is already handled. Like I did a thing I ate. This is going to be fine. I know the CGM looks a little low right now. But I feel fine. So maybe she was never really, like, you know, like, she's probably higher. Like if we would have tested at 49. She might have already been 60 or whatever. And right. And now she's feeling judged and questioned. Right, right. And you're taking her out of her flow of her day and what she's doing, but none of that changes what it's like to be on this side of it. Right? And the to never even like, you know, we're sitting here almost joking, because it's between you and an X. But this is between me and my daughter who have we have a really great relationship. Right. And it's still honestly the same thing happened. Yes. And

Kristin 34:04
I'm aware that it will be that way soon, too, right. I mean, she's eight right now, but she's already arguing with me about a Bolus or you know, she has her own opinions. And I love that so much. And I really try to encourage it. And I'm aware that at some point, this will be me, you know, texting her going. Hey, hey, do you see that 15 Is everything good? And then she's gonna text back one word help, and I will have no idea what to do.

Scott Benner 34:32
I sent a Artem was on the beach on Friday. So Arden doesn't go to or does have classes on Fridays and she's close to a beach where she goes to school. I'm not like I don't pay attention to what she's doing moment to moment, you know, but I gotta, I gotta, I gotta signal and I was like, oh Arden's low and I looked and it wasn't like, like it was a low that kind of crap up on her. And I looked at her location and She was on a beach. And I texted and nobody answered. And I was like, Well, I mean it's loud there. So I sent like a find your iPhone signal to her phone. Oddly, that when I got back like hey, I'm okay, blah, blah this is what I did. I've already treated this, you know, I said I love you and she's like, that was nice like she hearted. My I love you. Which by the way, as you get older as a parent, it's interesting where you accept your like, reassurance from like, my wife, my wife will be like culpa hard on that and I'm like, you know the hearts the first thing you get to with your finger, right? Oh, jeez, but my wife's like, but it's a heart. I'm like, if the thumbs up was first you would have got a thumbs up. I'm just saying. This is about this is about finger travel. Not about feelings. But okay. And anyway, but so she was okay in her reaction was fine. And she was absolutely fine. Like she didn't mind that I helped that I was looking out for. And this time, I don't even know that she minds. I think if we got her hold of her right now. And as she'd be like, Look, I was just running around getting ready for, you know, class and, you know, I know was more typing than stop.

Kristin 36:13
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And it's hard to know what that yeah, what that means to her if she would have she actually irritated by it. Or if she was like, Yeah, that was fine. I just want you to know I had it.

Scott Benner 36:25
Yeah. Anyway, let's Yeah, well, how do we how do we manage right? Is it MDI pumps CGM? obviously have a CGM. But what do you do?

Kristin 36:34
Right? Yeah, so she's on a control IQ.

Scott Benner 36:38
Okay. Oh, great. Excellent. How do you find that?

Kristin 36:42
You know, I really like it. I was just talking to somebody about this, who's kind of considering? Well, I don't know if she's considering looping, I was considering looping for her, I was encouraging her to look into it. And because she's on them the pod and so she was asking about control IQ. And I feel like what I feel about control IQ. And this is based on, you know, what I see, frankly, on the on the Facebook page about Omnipod. Five is that control IQ is an algorithm that helps you avoid lows and kind of get an edge on the creep up. But it doesn't get in your business too much. You can still do extended boluses, you can still jump in and it feels like Omnipod five is kind of designed for for more of a hands off approach. I don't know, I'm just kind of speaking based on what I see from folks. No, I really like being able to get in there and make my own decisions about bonuses and stuff like that.

Scott Benner 37:45
Yeah, I think Omnipod five is very specifically designed to be a thing that you don't think about. And right. And I agree that control IQ has a couple of more like options for you on a more like, I'm just gonna say on a manual, but you're not really a manual, you're still in the algorithm, but you can do a little more. And then lupus, lupus probably like the, you know, like the way the nth degree of that idea where you have a lot of, you know, autonomy to make changes as you go. And I think they all have their place for sure. And I think that if you if you ask people who are newly diagnosed, they'd say, I want the thing where I don't think like, I think that it's going that way, like I don't think people

Kristin 38:32
and I think it works for different, like you said it has its place, it works for different people. And I think control IQ works great for us, because we can set profiles, but it's not so manual that we're really fighting over every detail. So I really liked that we can kind of use it in our situation. If I if it was just me caring for her, her I would be really interested to try looping. But in my current situation, this works great. I really, I'm really inspired by some of the folks you've had on the lazy IQ. And then Jeremy but I really just leave it in sleep mode. I override every Bolus, and it's just how I do it. It makes sense to me. I was really, I think that's why I love the podcast right away. Because in the first episodes, I was listening to you were going look, I just looked at a plate of food and I go, Hey, that looks like 25 carbs, I'm gonna give five for the broccoli. I'm gonna give a couple for the burger go. And I was like, Whoa, that's perfect. That's how my brain works. I want to be able to just name the units and you know, think about it that way and not be so underwater with them with the math. So I really liked being able to Yeah, override Bolus.

Scott Benner 39:49
I think that can't. I mean, obviously it's the way I think so I'm going to agree with it. But I think I've seen it, touch so many people and have a similar impact that I really I mean, even Arden like, look, she went away to college and she's maintaining her. I mean, her agency went up like, I don't know, like point to like they don't I mean, in the first the first couple of months she was there. And then we very recently visited. So her spring break came. So it was the end of our Arden has an assistant with quarters, not trying, like not semester. So it was the end of the quarter, we took that opportunity art and traveled from where she is to where her brother is she spent a couple of days with him. Then we showed up and we spent like four or five days together. And then he had to kind of get back to work. So we went back to school with Arden and we got her like, you know, weekly, we helped her clean her dorm room and went shopping for food and stuff like got her set back up for the next quarter. And we were kind of at dinner one night. And I was like, Look, you're doing a terrific job. Like a really, really, really great job I'm very proud of. But here are the two things I need you to do that you're not doing right. And and I was like and they're not big thing. So I was like But you're looking at high blood sugar's a little too long. And you're not Pre-Bolus Singh long enough before your meals. And she's like, Okay, I'm like really hard. That's my only feedback. I said, I think you're, I think you're a one C could go back to under six, like in the fives. If you just do these two extra things, and it's saying a lot because her sleep schedule screwy. Her eating schedule school. The food she's getting is terrible. From right from the school. She actually is in the middle of trying to get an up a cot one of my I just said every word except the one I wanted a dorm that has has a kitchen in it because she wants to cook more of her own food. Yeah, like

Kristin 41:46
I can the college food holy cow that is impressive to be able to handle that even remotely.

Scott Benner 41:52
Oh my gosh, you have no I mean this Bolus that we're talking about this morning, by the way, her blood sugar's 107. Now for everybody who's concerned? Yeah, I mean, she Bolus 65 carbs this morning, which was almost 13 units of insulin. And you know, it. Sorry about that. It was I hate the set. By the way, whoever makes Nightscout I hate that noise, fix it, make it go away. Pick a different noise, anything at all. I mean, she didn't miss by much. Like, the reality of it is she probably ate five minutes too late. And if she wouldn't have this curve that she created would have happened a little sooner. Now if this 107 levels out. I don't know how to argue with that. Like, you know, then her her eating. She just she just started a little late. And that again, it's probably because she's rushing around. So I mean, she's 18 Right? Yeah,

Kristin 42:48
it's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, and I feel like it would be so much easier for it to go the other way where it went too high. And I I appreciate that perspective. And I definitely keep it in my head when she goes low. Before breakfast or something like that. Look, it was just a little the curve was just a little too soon.

Scott Benner 43:06
Yeah, stop fix it or whatever. It sounds like what Arden did was she was like that'll be fine. And because she knew that because she knew the food was in she probably if she responded back would have said you should have seen what I just the mess that these people just gave me that I just say trust me, it's gonna hit my blood sugar and and then right, yeah, right. But anyway, it's you know, and for people listening who have like a late high school aged kid who might be going to college. I have to tell you that I've one child who's gone through college has graduated already. And one child who's a freshman. The food service at the first school was terrible. But it was it was obviously terrible. Like you looked at it and you're like, Oh, God, like I'm so sorry. You're gonna have to eat this like if it felt like that right? Like he wants send us a picture of pink chicken. Oh, mom. And he's like, Hey, look, you know, here's a piece of chicken a kid got in the cafeteria the other day the kids blew the school up on on Instagram about it. Like they went after went after him on social media and the school responded with this like a like a government thing that said that because of the way they cook the chicken. It may look pink and that safe. Well, they didn't say I get you don't want your chicken to be pink. Or they just went after that's fine. It's safe. Like anyway, Arden gets the school and we're on the tour. You know, before she chose the school. And the cafeteria that she eats in is magical. Oh wow. If you walk in you're like oh my god, like I I'd happily live in here. You know, like beautiful like food everywhere and blah blah blah. But what she ended up telling me after not much time is she's like that this is all just really processed crappy food. And you know, she's like, even though vegetables are good like they're soaked in something that's not really butter, and I don't know what it is. And, you know, like, so it's just it's really impactful. Your kids are really going to need to know how to use insulin if they're gonna go to college. That's for sure. So,

Kristin 45:15
yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just a whole How do you feed that many kids without getting giant cans of green beans soaked in something, you know? How do you do it?

Scott Benner 45:24
I don't know. And that's the other thing is it's almost like the the conversation earlier about you need to understand diabetes better. But how's everyone going to do that? Like, what's Gordon Ramsay gonna show up at every school and set it up? And, you know, they're just, and it sucks. Because, you know, even she said to me recently, she's like, you know, everybody talks about, like, you know, they still say, like, I'm gonna put on the freshman 15. And she's like, maybe that wouldn't be necessary if this food was decent.

Kristin 45:52
Oh, yeah. I think that's what it is. 100% It's the food. Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:57
well, that freaked me out. Because there's a person who has put so much effort into, like making small changes. You know, for my kids, like, I was like, Wait, so 20 years, I've been at this. And now I'm powerless. You want to hear a funny story? Kirsten, hold on. So my, my son moves, you know, to take a job. And I go with him. Like, because he is poor kids. Like he got a job. And they were like, you have to be here in two weeks and start it was in another state 700 miles from our house. He had never had a job before because he was a college baseball player. So baseball was his job. He's never had a job before he's moving across the country to take a job, right. And so I'm like, I'll go with you, I'll help you get the apartment set up. Like we had to rent him an apartment sight unseen, which was frightening. Anyway, we're in the grocery store, like two days before I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna leave like the next day. And we're trying he doesn't know he's walking around. Like, I don't know what to buy, you know, like, I don't know, you know. So I'm like, Here, grab some of this. Like, I'm just trying to get him going. And I go to get him some olive oil to cook with. And they don't have cold pressed olive oil in the grocery store, which for anybody who cares when you press oil and olive oil with heat, you change it and you fundamentally make it it's just not as healthy afterwards. Right? And it's a little thing, but it's a thing I figured out years ago, Kristin and dammit, like removing other oils out of the house like canola and vegetable oil, all that stuff. If none of that exists in the house. In my house. There's olive oil that is cold pressed, and there's coconut oil to make popcorn it like that's all in my house. Okay. So I'm standing in the grocery store. Oh my god. Alright, I'll just tell you, I'm standing in the grocery store. They don't have cold pressed olive oil. And I start to cry. Oh, I literally like not like, like, you know, like soap opera. But I was just like, tears started coming out of my eyes. And I was like, so frustrated that, like, I'm like, oh, no, like, I did all this to put him in this position. And now this, so this lady next to me goes. She goes honey, you okay?

Speaker 3 48:12
Oh, yes. Thank you. Like, how am I going to explain this to her? Just say they don't have code for methodology. She's gonna call the cops, you know?

Scott Benner 48:24
So I just shifted the conversation tiny bit I said is I'm I just brought my son to the city. He's staying for a job and I'm starting to realize I'm leaving. I just lied to her a little bit. Like this is why I'm crying. Meanwhile, you know,

Kristin 48:40
part of you were crying is that you were sad to leave your son. Well, yes,

Scott Benner 48:44
those a whole shopping experience was terrible. I walked around there with blinders. I try not to make eye contact with him. Because I was like, I was upset. Don't get me wrong. I was on the edge Kristin. But the actual reason that I couldn't hold it together was the freakin olive oil. And, and I just told her, you know, I'm just sad about leaving my son and she goes, Oh, sweetheart. She's like, it's the greatest thing. It's like, oh, okay, she's

Kristin 49:11
ready. Your kids. Yeah, she

Scott Benner 49:12
didn't like she didn't like her kids as much as I like mine. I don't think she was like, Oh, please, you're gonna love this, and I don't particularly love it. Okay, sure. But my bigger point was, I guess I needed to embarrass myself on the podcast. I haven't done that. But But the other thing, just like all this preparation goes into something and suddenly gone. It's not even up to you. It's over. You know? No, I

Kristin 49:39
totally get the freaking olive oil moment because it's, it's about like you just like, you know, kill yourself to make things happen for your kids and to get things together for your family. And in the end, you have no control. And I think being confronted with that realization is sobering and sometimes makes you tear up in the grocery store.

Scott Benner 49:58
Oh my God, I'm such Baby to I mean, there's no no way around it also, I'm calling this episode freaking olive oil. And but anyway, so you're using control IQ. Do you think there are people listening are like yes about control like you 10 minutes ago, and now we're back?

Unknown Speaker 50:19
For sure, yeah.

Scott Benner 50:20
But you're liking that. So you're using the Dexcom G six using control IQ, right? That's right. Do you intend to move to the g7 once it's compatible?

Kristin 50:30
Oh, yeah, I'm so excited. I am very much looking forward to a 30 minute warmup time. That sounds so nice to me. And the the transmitter thing

are you still there?

Scott Benner 50:52
Kristen, do you have a mountain bike? I

Kristin 50:54
mean, I I live in a mountainous area. There's not like mountains right next to me. Is it

Scott Benner 50:59
do? That's okay. But like a goats? No. No, no, no. Okay. Just you just kicked out. I'm sorry. g7. Oh, yeah, I'm

Kristin 51:09
looking forward to the warm up time being only 30 minutes. And the transmitter thing but I was just asking you guys are on the g7. Is that right?

Scott Benner 51:18
So Arden just used a g7 for 10 days. And going back to use up a couple of G SIX sensors. And then I think in about a week her the rest of her G sevens get delivered for people who are like, I don't understand how that happens. I'm happy to tell you. I got one promotional g7 For Arden to use because of the podcast. And while we were visiting with her, I said, Hey, why don't you wear this while I'm here. That way we can learn about it together, then you can switch back to G six. And then you know, go back to g7. And you'll have some context for it. So she worked for 10 days, she'll be wearing it again in like a week or two for the rest of it going forward.

Kristin 51:57
Cool. Cool. And so when you put it on,

Scott Benner 52:01
I can't believe you just broke up again. Kristen. That's hilarious. Just your connection is unstable.

Kristin 52:14
I think Oh, no. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I

Scott Benner 52:16
think they're the go just stop for a second. So when you say Yeah, I heard you say so when you put it on?

Kristin 52:22
Oh, geez, when you put it on? Is there something you have to do with the transmitter? Or do you just kind of ignore it and it connects.

Scott Benner 52:29
Okay, so you unscrew the little lid from the doohickey. Sorry, you push it against your skin, it kind of collapses this, like there's a ring, once you unscrew the lid, you'll see this kind of clear ring. And then you press down, the ring kind of goes up inside of it. So then the I'm doing a poor job of this, but then the The device is now touching your skin. You push a button on the side. I've seen I've seen it inserted now for a couple of different people about a half dozen times, nobody seems to notice any pain from it, close it down, put the cover on. And then you take your phone, scan the QR code on the side of the inserting device. And somewhere between like 25 to 30 minutes later just pops on and it's there.

Kristin 53:19
Oh, cool. Okay. And I was just wondering if there's like, you know, the getting the transmitter to connect always feels dicey to me. So I was wondering like, does this make that go away? Or does this just happen every time?

Scott Benner 53:33
Yeah, I mean, I've seen four of them so far. And so far, I haven't noticed the problem with that at all. Cool. Okay, that's great. The one thing I'll bring up, is that it doesn't delete the transmitter from your Bluetooth profile on your phone, which I know it can no, there's no way for it to actually happen. But I don't know if people pay attention to this or not. But every time you put on a GSX you put on and with a new transmitter, you're pairing to a new transmitter, you're making a new Bluetooth connection to something and then your your phone holds on to that as something that it's been it's good to delete the old ones is what I'm saying. Okay, and so on G six, you know, a transmitter last 90 days, you're really only deleting a few a year, but with g7 every 10 days you're gonna I would go into my Bluetooth and delete the old transmitter being very careful not to delete the one that you're using currently, obviously,

Kristin 54:27
okay, well that is totally I can do that that's worth the headache of it's just you know, it's like one more thing just the other night we had to do a a Dexcom change I finally gave up at two in the morning and decided to pull it because it was so bad and dad once I got it and so just you know picture me at two in the morning. Hunched in the bottom bunk of a bunk bed with the sleeping kid and you know, test strips trying to pry out the transmitter to get a new one in there. It was his a rough night. So I'm very excited for that just to be one problem. instead of to,

Scott Benner 55:01
well, just just that it's one thing, like, it's so cool. Like you peel it off, you like tossed in the trash kind of don't even feel bad about it. It's so small, you know, you're like, oh, and I asked Arden afterwards, I was like so g7 What do you think she was smaller? And I was like, Cool. Like, that's really what she had to say she's, like, smaller. And so she must have noticed that it was smaller. Yeah, yeah, that was, that was kind of it. It's, uh, you know, I've heard people say, like, oh, there's, you know, like, I'm seeing connection issues with mine, and blah, blah. And like I, you know, Arden didn't have any of those problems. So I don't know what to say. And the other person that I see using it is not either. Great. And I'm being a little vague, just because it's nobody's business. But maybe one day, I'll talk about it. Okay. That sounds

Kristin 55:47
like a story. Now. I'm intrigued. Oh, sure.

Scott Benner 55:49
It is always a story. Kristen has to be a story. What am I not talking about that you'd be interested in cover?

Kristin 55:58
Gosh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I can talk a little bit about, you know, school stuff. That's kind of interesting. I don't know that I was I was kind of having a little impostor syndrome coming on here. I was like, gosh, what in the world would make this valuable for people to listen to? They've heard all about control IQ. And they've heard all about divorce. And they've heard all about anxiety and mental health stuff. So I don't know. I don't I'm not. I don't know if I have anything unique to share? Well, no,

Scott Benner 56:23
I think that the thing, like the massive thing that came out of this, I thought, was just the intersection of the conversation about what happens when, you know, when race somewhere else, and you don't have the autonomy to reach out. And then this thing happened art and all at the same time, which is weird, but I thought that was terrific. And I don't think there's anything wrong with reminding people that, you know, you have this kind of hypervigilance that's given to you by the diagnosis. And then it's really difficult. Like, I thought it was very cool the way you talked about aiming it at something else. Yeah. Honestly, I thought that was really valuable. Because I think what happens to a lot of people is that they just stare at a number on a screen and make themselves, you know, upset. Looking at

Kristin 57:11
which I do, which I do, do I just also to school?

Scott Benner 57:16
Don't get me wrong, Scott, I do that. So.

Kristin 57:20
Yeah, that's definitely part of the deal. And I wonder if if I imagine that's true for type one diabetics, as well that you have a lot of hypervigilance and in different ways, right? Because it is your body. And I was a part for a little while of a meditation group that was virtual, and it was for type one diabetics and their caregivers. And that was really cool. Because it was just kind of acknowledging the relationship you have with your body or with the body of the person that you care for, which is just really strained in some ways, because of chronic illness in a way that, you know, it's not for the typical person with a functioning pancreas trying to meditate, you know,

Scott Benner 58:01
would you get like you got together? Like, digitally, like over zoom or something? And then yeah,

Kristin 58:07
over zoom, and there were some guided meditations, it was so cool. I'm not sure when I stopped doing it. Except that, you know, everyone gets zoom burnout every once in a while. But it was very, very helpful to see a particularly a lot of the most of the people on it were diabetics themselves and adults, and they're talking about things like how difficult it is to trust your body to be well, when it might not be and how you kind of exist in that space of learning to build that trusting relationship. It might sound a little out there for some people, but I thought it was really helpful.

Scott Benner 58:41
No, I don't think so. I also I think that people do exist in different spaces, right? So you'll see people like us. Arden is an example Arden does her thing. The diabetes does what it does, she does what she's supposed to do. Sometimes she's high, and she fixes it. And sometimes she's low, and she fixes it. But for the most part, you'd be hard pressed. If if I pulled Arden aside and said, describe yourself. I don't know that she'd ever mentioned diabetes. Right? That's right. And I think there are people who you'd pull aside and say, describe yourself and they'd say, I have the first thing that come out of our mouth is I have diabetes, and right, you know, and then they'd go from there. So does everybody get where Arden is? I kind of think they do eventually. I think that the one thing, this is kind of a big idea from a personalized perspective, because I see a lot of people talking and I see a lot of people living with things at different points in their journey. I think eventually, if I could somehow make sure that the next 10 people I interviewed had had diabetes for 10 years but also understood it. You'd hear a lot of people talk like Arden Yes. You know, and I think if you find a lot of newer diagnose people, or people who are not quite in control their surroundings like you are they sound like you.

Kristin 1:00:03
Yeah. And I think it's I'm wondering if that's true. Like, I almost wonder because there's been so much stigma around diabetes, there are folks who've been diagnosed for a long time and they're very kind of loud and proud about it. And I, I do think you're true if we were to look 10 years in the future, what what are kids 10 years in the future who are diagnosed now going to be saying about diabetes? And I wonder if it's a lot like garden, you know, these kids are in a different time, where there's, it's not this grim diagnosis that it was, it's not people are showing their CGM is just this kind of de marginalizing of, of chronic illness that's happening. And I don't want to say, oh, things are gonna be great and easy, I still think you're gonna have to advocate but that's got to have an impact.

Scott Benner 1:00:48
Know, for sure. I, I, I believe that totally. And I always try to also think about all the people who are not on social media, because that is that is most people I just saw, I just kind of put people in slots. Like I didn't mention all the slots that I think of people there also people have had diabetes for a long time don't understand it are struggling terribly. And there are people who have given up, there are people who run high on purpose, there are people who run low on purpose and feed their insulin, like everybody's doing it slightly differently, which I think you mentioned earlier, like I do the thing that fits how, how we live and how I do it. So right. But in the end, my goal is for anybody to have the Act have access to information that would let them live a stable existence at a blood sugar that's not going to cause them a problem in the future.

Kristin 1:01:39
Yeah, people have a choice, right and not feeling like they're, they're kind of stuck in one way. And I'm curious how Ray is gonna go. I mean, for her right now she's very, she really likes having diabetes, it makes her feel special. I mean, in this morning, she just said to me, mom, before I had diabetes, my life was kind of boring, I didn't have much going on. And I thought that was so interesting that now she feels kind of like herself, like there's something to focus on. I mean, I don't know what that means. It was also you know, a pandemic, so who knows what kind of was working out for her mental health wise,

Scott Benner 1:02:19
that is interesting. Like, there's something that she identity wise, like, you know, like, you're like a little kid, and there's just you get up and you do a thing every day, and blah, blah, blah, and it's just over and over again. But all of a sudden, there's a thing about you that's different. And instead of, like, brushing up against and be like, I can't believe this happened to me, she's more like, Ha, there's a thing about me, that's different. That's cool.

Kristin 1:02:43
Yeah, and I was thinking this the other day, too. And I don't know how I feel about saying this, but I just know that it's true, that if, you know, tomorrow, we would wake up and they were to say, hey, look, there's a cure for type one, and it's totally accessible. Here it is, and that we're to go away from our lives. You have to feel this way about art. And I just felt like, way that would be pretty jarring. Obviously, I'd be happy. But also, I'd be really lost for a little bit in my connection to her. Does that make sense? Oh, no, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:03:17
you'd have to read kind of rejigger your focus of your life, I think that's what it really is, is that you've put so much effort into this thing. Now, that takes up time, it is part of your identity, right? Like if I asked you about you, at some point, you say I'm the mother, you know, a child who has type one diabetes, and you know, and then all if that all went away, it would take time to to, to settle again. And by the way, that's not I put this I've put this question online a couple of times over the years, just to kind of give people some comfort. But the amount of adults with type one who say they wouldn't give it away is interesting. Yes,

Kristin 1:03:58
I've noticed that too. I found that so fascinating. I mean, as a parent, I'd have to say Yes, take it away, because, you know, obviously there's just so much risk involved. But it is true that it would shake up myself in my life, but I specifically the kind of connection we have, you know, it's funny when she switched to the pump. I had this feeling of kind of loss and despair that was very not connected to like the fact that I was very excited. I knew it was the right thing and I and I that I sat with that for a while and I was like you know this feeling of loss I'm having is the same feeling I felt when we stopped nursing and she was a baby. It's like this connection I had to her and this way I provided for her went away and it changed my connection to her and so it was giving shots which is like a pretty weird you know, not super like loving you know, intimate connection with your child but it's still was in so many ways and you You know, obviously I still have that connection with her, but just like the the way I can make eye contact with her across the room, and we know we're checking in about blood sugar, you know, you know, she plays sports. And if I walk up to the edge of wherever she's playing, she knows to run over and get a snack like I value that connection, we have an that kind of understanding and the way she knows how proud I am of her for managing or the way she'll tell me, Hey, No, Mom, I think it should be this many units. Like that's a whole thing we do. What would it be like to just, you know, give her a meal in the morning and let her go play softball and not really pay attention, you know, to what was happening, it would just change us fundamentally,

Scott Benner 1:05:42
is the message here that because of diabetes, you focused on your kids in a way that you hadn't prior?

Kristin 1:05:53
100%? Yeah, absolutely. And I'm sure it's true with any thing. I mean, even if it's just, your kid takes up a new instrument you have, you know, and say your kid starts playing the trumpet, and they get all this confidence about it. And you also play the trumpet, and you talk to them about I mean, now, that's part of your shared experience, and the way that they have, you know, they feel loved by you. And so I think that's going to be true with a lot of things. But there's something so relentless about diabetes. I mean, it is relentless. There's not something relentless about it. And yeah, it really changes the way the two of you connect. I mean, with Arden, if you suddenly never had a talk about diabetes with her again, I'm sure it would change the stuff you randomly texted her about, you know, instead of going, hey, oh, no, three, you know,

Scott Benner 1:06:49
we're definitely yeah, I mean, we're definitely closer because of diabetes. Right? That's for certain, like, it just it forces you together, you know, like, and it's not that you don't listen, it's not that you're not interested in your kids. But life gets moving. And sometimes you just like, Oh, it's on autopilot. And it's working. Like I'm gonna get through this week, I'm gonna get through work. We all ate, you know, everybody's clean. They went to school, like, you know, and that's that there's function things. They just keep happening. And you have a way of like, drifting, like apart, like during stuff like that. And this is something that holds you together. Listen, I've said this before. But I once wrote a blog post a long time ago about how lucky I felt because in the middle of the night, I hold Arden's hand, and I've watched her hand get bigger and bigger and bigger. And yeah, and no, you don't get that if you don't have to go test your kids blood sugar in the middle of the night.

Kristin 1:07:40
That's right. It's a bizarre, it's a bizarre kind of extension of babyhood where you're up in the night. And you kind of fill that role of the, just the Nightwatch. And it's become really precious to me, too. And it's always that way with kids, you know, there's always something. But this is a particularity of that relationship that is weirdly meaningful, despite, you know, all the challenges, and sometimes the, you know, just general regret of it, and wishing it would go away. Yeah, there's just some radical acceptance, I

Scott Benner 1:08:13
understand. you'd listen if you if I gave you the magic wand after thinking about it for a long time, you'd be like, Yeah, goodbye, diabetes, I'll figure out the rest of it later. But, but I understand all the pushing, but listen, about having something taken from you. This is not in the public Christmas. So this is just between you and I. But by the time people hear this, it won't matter. It will be out by then I decided to take a GLP one for weight loss. So I'm using weego V. and the details are not important here. But I mean, your appetite really does. Its I did not have a big appetite to begin with. I'm almost at the point now where I don't think about food at all, like to the point where I'm reminding myself to eat throughout the day, but I do recognize that in the evenings. Like if you sit and watch, like, even if it's just like, I'm gonna make popcorn while we watch this movie, or something like that, like you don't realize how much of that just the preparation of the food and the talking about and all that stuff is part of your day. So my wife and I sat down. I don't know, Saturday night to watch television together. We work really hard, like so during the week, my house just this very still. Nobody uses like TVs or anything. So we're like, we're really going to do this, like we're gonna stop working and like, we're all like, excited. And then I sat down and she looks over me she was are you okay? And I'm like, why? Yeah, I'm okay. Why she goes, You look sad. And I was like, I'm, I am. And she goes, why? And I'm like, I I I thought to make popcorn. And I was like, but I don't want it. Oh, no. And it was a really, really interesting moment where I was like, Oh my God, how much of my time am I filling with things I don't even want or need because it's the way Do it. Yeah, Rachel? Yeah, does that just just absolutely ritualistic and? And so I'm like, I'm not sad, like, um, but I feel empty. And yeah, and that that is the I sat there for like two hours enjoying what we were doing together, enjoying the thing I was watching. And I still had this feeling of emptiness inside. And I thought, oh my god, like, I'm like, so fundamentally broken about like, about food, like, Thank God for this. This, this injection, like, like, really like, I never would have like known this because I'm not a big eater. Like, I joke, I joke all the time. Listen, this is just this, these are the words I use in my private life. I'm like, I am the fattest person you'll ever meet, that doesn't eat. Like, I just don't take in a bunch of food, my body shouldn't. Like, based on what I take in, I shouldn't be this size. And I'm not I don't want you to give the impression that I'm like, you know, but I am like, I, obviously my doctor wrote me a prescription for something. And the insurance company said yes to it, because my BMI is high enough that I, I fit, I fit this need, right. But in that doctor's office a couple of weeks ago, I said to the doctor, before we start, because I think you need the context for why I'm asking about this. How much do you think I weigh? And I said, Please, can't hurt my feelings. I have a very close relationship with this physician. You know, it's almost like friends sitting together there. They're not going to like I stood up, I took my sweatshirt off. I spotted a circle. And she goes, I got you to 175 pounds. And I was like, Yeah. And I said, Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. And she goes, what I said, I weigh 233 pounds. And she goes, What do you mean, you think that's part of the problem? And I said, I look in the mirror, and I don't look at a person who looks like they need to lose weight. Yeah. And then I'm like, I don't know how I'm carrying it. Like, it's like, I'm broad shouldered Kristen, you don't need me. So like I just kind of like, I don't know, like, it's, it's the way you hear people say like, I just carry it differently. And doesn't mean I'm not gonna have a frickin heart attack 10 years from now from it. And so like, I'm like, I can't like I've done this, I've done this, I'm like, my body's breaking down and like, My knee is messed up, I can't ride the bike, I used to ride like, I can't, I need help, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a health issue. And I don't want that. And, and she was like, Yeah, let's like, you know, she gave me a full physical and everything. And then we started doing it. For context. In the first five days, I lost six and a half pounds.

Kristin 1:12:35
Oh, you know, I think I think one thing you're bringing up is really interesting, which is that we do have a lot of our food and our emotions are so interconnected, which takes us back to diabetes to but I do think that sometimes when we, I mean, this idea, right? And all these religious groups where there's like fasting, that when you take away a food ritual, like your popcorn at night, suddenly you have feelings there, and you're like, oh, wow, look at this. This is super interesting. This feeling was probably there before, but then there was also food, and there's actually help deal with trauma. I mean, this is real, you can't make this stuff up. And I was like, oh, that's why I used to get hamburgers all the time when I was going through my divorce, How fascinating. But um, you know, when you take away that food, then there's all this stuff there for you to kind of focus on. And what do you do with that? And how does that impact your relationship to all those things,

Scott Benner 1:13:36
I realized I could have busied myself with anything sitting there, right. Like, if I would have taken two sticks and tapped them together and focused on doing it, it would have been the same as eating the popcorn. And it's not gonna it's what I like, it's not that I don't like the popcorn, but what I realized is I would have made a bowl of popcorn, and then eaten half of the bowl, right? I would have been just as happy with a handful of popcorn. And you know, as far as the popcorn part goes, so for the there is value in the food part of it, but then there's the rest of it, which has nothing to do with the popcorn and the popcorn is masking it. And I was like, and the one thing I'm proud of is that in that moment, I was like, Oh, I'm doubling down on on what I'm doing. Not going the other way. Because I easily could have been like, I don't want to feel like this. I'll eat. I'll stop doing this need the popcorn. But instead I was like, no, no, I'm like, let this whatever that magic juices in that pen. Like let that help me until I can kind of rewire my brain around this.

Kristin 1:14:33
Yeah, yep. And just it'll be such a fun adventure to see what interesting emotions pop up. Yeah. And what's kind of there for you to sift through? Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:14:44
I really agree. Because I don't I've said on the podcast before, like, I don't think of myself as my physical form. Like you said that you said something or you're like that might sound weird to people. Like I like if you asked me to describe myself, I would never describe my height, my weight my Like nothing, I think of myself as my thoughts. So the only reason I had to want to address this is I just want to keep being alive and thinking. And seriously. So like, I, it's not like I want to have ABS or I care what people think when they look at me, I'm not self conscious in public like nothing like that. And I also don't want to give the idea that I'm, you know, in some serious situation that other people might be in, because I'm certainly not right. I'm carrying, probably, but I mean, 50 pounds, to get me to 175. I don't think I don't think I want to be 175. But I would be at 190, I'd have a much healthier lifestyle, because I am carrying enough fat that you can't see it, and it's that much weight. So maybe my nails stop hurting, and I can actually ride my bike again. And maybe like, you know, maybe I won't be eating to fill like time because that really is what it was. In the end. It's like boredom. And yeah, you know, anyway. Well, that's interesting

Kristin 1:16:05
what you say about you really think of yourself as your thoughts you have picked the right career, because as a podcaster, you kind of are this. You're leaning into your thoughts. Everybody kind of knows you as your thoughts. Such a great way to be actualized and affirmed, as you really see yourself.

Scott Benner 1:16:21
I'm a disembodied voice scan. Just just me, I'm just like, I'm hearing you're in your head. But for me, it's about talking. Like, I don't even think without the podcast, that I would have understood the popcorn moment. Because, yeah, because I've had to talk to so many people and pick through their feelings like, I know it feels it can feel like I know something you don't know when you're listening. But you shouldn't think of me that way you should think of me is like a person who's like, Hmm, I don't understand any of this. And I'm just asking the questions that I think get me to understand it better.

Kristin 1:16:54
Right, right. So you've like, done all the work with all these folks. And now you can offer that to yourself?

Scott Benner 1:17:01
Exactly. Yeah, this, this podcast acts as talk therapy for me, but we don't really ever talk about me that much. Although I'm sure some people think all I do is talk about myself, but whatever. I saw I saw your review. Go to hell.

Kristin 1:17:18
Oh, that's funny. Oh, gosh.

Scott Benner 1:17:19
All right. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have?

Kristin 1:17:22
No, I think we've we've heard it all.

Scott Benner 1:17:25
Thank you. I really appreciate you doing this. I hope the goat is okay.

Kristin 1:17:28
Yeah, I'm gonna go check that honor. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:17:32
you're gonna absolutely when you listen back to this, you're gonna be like, Wow, I broke up more than I thought I did. Because there's times where I

Kristin 1:17:39
can be like this. I'm so sorry. Don't worry.

Scott Benner 1:17:41
I mean, maybe you should tighten the rubber bands or however it works. I like that you're like I'm in a city but a mountain. So Denver.

Kristin 1:17:52
Oh, my goodness. All right.

Scott Benner 1:17:53
Thank you very much. Hold on one second for me. I want to thank Kristin for coming on the show and sharing her story. I think I've decided to call this episode kick the goat. What else I want to remind you of the diabetes Pro Tip series has been remastered It sounds amazing and it runs between Episode 1001 1026. It's my humble opinion that if you listen to that series, you'll be able to maintain an A one C and the low sixes with very little trouble. diabetes pro tip.com and juicebox podcast.com is where you can find the series online. But listening in an audio player is probably much easier episode 1000 to 1026 Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast

a huge thank you to one of today's sponsors better help. You can get 10% off your first month of therapy with my link better help.com forward slash juice box that's better. H e l p.com. Forward slash juice box. If you've been thinking about speaking with someone, this is a great way to do it on your terms betterhelp.com forward slash juice box

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