#196 Susan Worries

Mental health and type 1 diabetes….

Susan's family dealt with depression and anxiety before type 1 diabetes but after T1 it got worse. Today we talk about the emotion and mental stress that can accompany diabetes and how Susan is coping.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - google play/android - iheart radio -  or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello, everyone, welcome to Episode 196 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today's episode is sponsored by dancing for diabetes Dexcom and Omni pod. There are links in your show notes or Juicebox podcast.com for all the sponsors, but you can always go to my omnipod.com forward slash juicebox dexcom.com forward slash choose box or dancing the number four diabetes.com to learn more. Today's episode is with Susan, Susan reached out and wanted to know if I had an episode about depression anxiety in the mental health aspect of type one diabetes. I didn't. So I asked her to come on to talk about it. In her initial outreach to me, she said that she had struggled with these things prior to the diagnosis of her daughter, but that they got amped up in her words, after diabetes. She said she was doing better now but had her moments and wanted to know if other people could share their insights so that she could learn. Turns out I didn't have an episode about that. So Susan came on very generously to talk about her life. For a topic that I wasn't sure I could find fun in we really did. And yet got out a lot of really interesting stuff. So sit back, relax. And remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should ever be considered advice, medical or otherwise. This is Susan.

Susan 1:30
My name is Susan. And my daughter, Jenna V is 16. And she's our T one D. I also have another daughter Michaela, who's 14 who is not T one. And yeah, we've been doing this for almost two years now.

Scott Benner 1:48
Okay, Jennifer, she was she was diagnosed when she was 14.

Unknown Speaker 1:51
Yes.

Scott Benner 1:52
So you, you reached out and you were like, hey, do you have any episodes about like anxiety, depression, like the mental health stuff that goes along with Type One Diabetes? And I was like, I don't but do you want to come on and talk about something I felt bad about? Susan, I'm sorry. But uh,

Susan 2:08
oh, no, no, no, I was like, God done it. Now.

Scott Benner 2:11
Trust me, You're not the first person to get sucked in like that. There have been other people like does, especially the poor and the peoples or anybody on the talks about MDI, like, there'll be you if you come. So. So I really appreciate you first having the question. And then secondly, reaching out and thirdly, being willing to be the guinea pig for this cup for this conversation. So So I guess, tell me a little bit about, you know, when when Genevieve was diagnosed with, you know, my guess Let me ask a question. First, would you say that you are you a family who lived in kind of an anxiety lifestyle to begin with? Or did this come with diabetes?

Susan 2:52
Yeah, well see? Yes. So I've struggled my whole life with regulating my mental health, I have issues with depression. And it's always been something that I've lived with like, and I didn't realize it until I was in my 20s that it was a problem. And I had kids in my 30s and, and now, I'm not 30 anymore. And so over the years, I've you know, done some work and I learn all kinds of coping skills and different things like that. But then, when I had done a vive, you know, she always was an anxious child. And she I mean, we're having conversations Well, what whatever you call a conversation with a four year old about the fact that she didn't want to dry when she was older. Because part scared her

Scott Benner 3:49
that's interesting. That's what she had for you like I don't know when this is exactly gonna happen in my life, but I can tell you right now I'm not getting involved. My life in this house and anywhere about 150 yards from here.

Susan 4:04
Exactly, exactly. You know, um, we were I think we were driving to preschool or something and I was joking with her like you what you want to get to sitting behind the wheel waiting for me I think I'm like, let's go to like, Oh,

Unknown Speaker 4:20
no, no way.

Scott Benner 4:21
You don't understand me or maybe a when you're just ignoring it, but I never Yeah, that's well, that is really something to see it go back. Ah, that is interesting. And did you recognize it for what it was then or back then? Do you just think like, Wow, my kids thinking about weird things?

Susan 4:36
Well, yes, and no, you know, it's like, okay, four year old things like this right now. Like, Oh, great. My kids things like this. Perfect.

Scott Benner 4:48
Which, the one I made.

Susan 4:50
Right, exactly, exactly. Yeah. And then her sister. He has always been kind of a lover to death, by the way, is some quirky Like I would cut her nails and she's like, those are mine. Put them back on. Like, you thank you for Yeah. You always

Scott Benner 5:08
know you're in for hearing something fun about someone's kids when they preface it by going, No, I like the kid. I just want to make sure you understand that first.

Susan 5:18
That mother's curse. I hope you have one that's just like you.

Scott Benner 5:23
Oh my god, I didn't tell you the fingernails thing. I don't mean to laugh so early on a serious subject. But that was fantastic. I that might have been like, I might have been like, Hey, honey, let's go to the mall. And maybe Mommy will forget you there. Go bother someone else with this fingernails situation.

Susan 5:43
factly. But you know, on the other hand, both of them went to the same preschool at different times. Of course, there's different ages. And I go to drop them off. And I'm hanging out in the first couple days. They don't mean to leave by like the third day is independent of each other. Right? They look at me and go, you can go now. like, Okay, see you later. As I'm running away, right? Yeah. Right.

Scott Benner 6:08
I'm like, wow, Is this true? Can I get out of here for real? No. Well, so yeah. So it comes and goes and it's wrapped around different things. Right.

Susan 6:16
Like, I got traffic. Yeah. And so Genevieve had started high school, we start High School, in our district in ninth grade. And, but a little, we live in a really big area. But we live in a very small school district and only had five schools, six schools for K through eight. And so she went to the next district over for high school. So she went from the Middle School of us, I'd say, at the time, 600 kids to a high school have almost 1600 Okay, and, and it's high school, and it's different, and the schedules didn't level up, right. And the whole year, she is just amped up means everything is making her nervous and everything is just to the nth degree. And I'm like, Oh, god, it's good thing. I only have two kids. Now. I know why boarding school isn't too bad. I'm married for 11 not money. No more guy. That's not enough. As he sits right here. Yeah, that's

Unknown Speaker 7:22
right.

Susan 7:24
It's an old joke. But, you know, what happened was that I'm looking back. I think she was sick.

Unknown Speaker 7:33
Do you think I'm sorry? What?

Susan 7:35
I think she was starting to get sick. Okay. Um,

Scott Benner 7:38
do you think the diabetes was on its way then?

Unknown Speaker 7:41
Yeah.

Scott Benner 7:42
How would you like to smile? And I mean, smile really big. All you have to do is go to dancing for diabetes.com. That's dancing the number for diabetes.com. Go get yourself a smile.

Susan 7:57
He started not working well, I would say probably February. But her demeanor really started to change at Christmas time. And it was just everything was doom and gloom. And she was the typical 14 year old drama child and this, you know, picking on our sister and I am just fine. I don't need you know.

Scott Benner 8:23
I am aware of what you're talking about.

Susan 8:25
Yeah. Do you have a 30 foot? rd? 13? Yes. Yeah, and

Scott Benner 8:30
I'm married. I have people in my life who I never say act like that. Because I'm afraid they'll kill me in my sleep. But yeah, so she you think it was her higher blood sugars may be coupled with anxiety? Or do you? Do you look back now and think maybe it was more about the high blood sugars or it's hard to know,

Susan 8:49
I think it's hard to know. But I wrote it off for so long as her just being 14 empathy in 14 and a girl in high school and blah, blah, blah, right? And she has always been on the 95th percentile of height and weight. So she's always been like an Amazon. And around Christmas time, she's like, I want to drop a few pounds. And um, you know, and I'm like, okay, more high school stuff. Let's just keep an eye on it. She's just wasn't doing anything crazy. And I needed to buy a swimsuit for her in California, or at least in our school district. They have the swim units, because we have a pool pool. Those guys both have pools, and I bought her swimsuit and she comes out to show me that it fits or not, and she's so proud of herself. That she's lost some weight. And I'm less than a month later we went to go shopping for some spring clothes. And she just seemed off all week. We were on break, but it was where we have April break. Every spring and we go to the put give her some clothes. She goes into the dressing room. She goes, Mom, I need a bigger size. And I'm thinking to myself, no, you don't, because you've been losing weight. And I go in there and I look at her, and the clothes are just falling off of her. And she's like, I need bigger size. I know how to you need a smaller stuff, right? And I'm realizing, oh my god, she's not just not feeling well, her cognitive ability is not there. Oh, wow.

Scott Benner 10:31
So you that there was a disconnect between, like bigger and smaller that she couldn't? Yeah. Okay. How, how much after that? Are we at the hospital being diagnosed? Because I'm dying to know what what was really one see when that happened? Or? Okay. Yeah, so she was really in trouble, huh?

Susan 10:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and she doesn't mind me telling the story, although it is embarrassing. But you know, I'm a mother. That's my job. We can you tell that we use humor a lot to

Scott Benner 11:02
I think it's very valuable. So she's already with it. I'm alright with it. Let's go. Yeah.

Susan 11:07
So by this time, speaking, going back a little bit to the anxiety By this time, he was having what I call mental health days, at least once a month. Or she would wake up and just not be able to do the day. And she wasn't a student. So I'm like, okay, just stay home, have a mental health day, get your group together, you know, and go back to school the next day, and we'll just take it as it comes, right. So then, of course, we have this April break, and I can tell her cognitive ability is off. And then she just keeps going downhill from there. And she's sleeping a lot. She you know, she didn't even nap as a baby in here. She's coming home every day and taking naps. And her color is off. And just everything right. And that last week, she got diagnosed on April, that week before she she's kind of just doing her thing, but really off. And she tells me like by Thursday, and say or Thursday, Mom, I haven't gone to the bathroom. And I can't remember the last time I went number two. I know. And I'm like, okay, and thinking back to the whole shopping experience. I'm like, wow, what, I wonder how long it's been. But I start tracking her. And so by Friday, she hadn't gone. And so I start giving her stuff. It starts out really mild. And you know, I have some prune juice, and let's do this. And by Sundays, nothing had happened, but she had thrown up. And so I kept her home on Monday and I told my husband, I'm going to give her a fleet. Mmm. And that stuff's like rocket fuel. Right? And if that doesn't work, I'm scared. And I was already scared. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 13:02
sure.

Susan 13:03
And of course, so my anxiety starts to kick in. Because I am like, you know what the heck is going on? Right? I gave her I gave her the enema. It doesn't even move her. And so I call him I said, Can you please come home? He commutes from like, literally over an hour away because of traffic. And he doesn't get home till the late afternoon. Yeah, she walks from your house. Exactly. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and, um, so he gets home. And then like, we got to go to the clinic, the walk in clinic I didn't even know tried to get an appointment. And so we go to the walking clinic. And we're there longer there. And she's so lethargic. And she's the, the on call. Doctor was actually a pediatrician. And she looks at Genevieve. And she goes, You know, I don't know, what do you think? And I'm like, I don't know, I'm thinking maybe moto? I'm not sure, you know. And she is like, well, we're gonna run some tests and ran some tests and some numbers were off and she goes, we're gonna run some more tests. And she comes back and she's like, well, Genovese diabetic, I call What?

Scott Benner 14:18
What does that mean? What are we talking about? Emily is diabetic. I saw that on television. That doesn't make any sense. So you know, the answer's no, no diabetes in your family, nothing that made you think about it, as

Susan 14:32
well. Okay. That's the irony because type type two runs in my family. My grandmother was diabetic. My dad was diabetic, type two, my great grandmother.

Scott Benner 14:44
And so when the when the first when she first says diabetes, do you think like, do you attach it to like what your parents had?

Susan 14:51
And yeah, yeah, to a certain extent, but at the same time, no, because the presentation was so completely different. Yeah, you know, and the other irony is, is that I'm always, you know, trying to be a good mom, drink your water do this, do that, right. And when we were at that shopping trip, and earlier in April, to visit my mom, I needed a new water bottle. Got like 10? And she goes, No, I need a bigger one. And I'm like, you know, Genevieve is drinking a lot of water is a sign of diabetes, we should now come and keep an eye on that. And then I immediately forgot that Congress. Oh,

Scott Benner 15:28
wow. It's like that funny. And what was the distance between that and and being in that clinic?

Susan 15:33
to eight weeks? Oh,

Scott Benner 15:35
you know, listen, first of all, it takes a while to figure it out. There's no reason to think, you know, a lot of the things you mentioned, I remember the Arden, like the last bowel movement she had was in a diaper. And it was so dry that I like scan through the diaper and it broke by it was like it crushed. And I was like, well, that's weird. And you would think that I would have went well, that's weird, Call an ambulance. But you know, right. Because that really would have been the way to go. And then, you know, days and days later when we figured out that she has diabetes. And then you look back with hindsight, you think, wow, I was watching her die. Like she she was dying. And I was and I was busy going, uh, you want a fleet enema? It really does make you feel terrible. But in the end, there's no way to really know, you know, it's not it's just it's in the end it become It's lucky that you figured it out, you got her somewhere and it got caught. And then she didn't end up being a, you know, a sad statistic of being, you know, a being diagnosed too late. Well, so tell me this, then that's a pretty incredible story. When the diabetes gets there, and everything's, you know, you're you're back home? And is it when when does the mental health stuff presented itself? Is it immediately? And how does it affect things?

Susan 16:54
Right? Well, for me, I just went into, you know, standard operating procedure mode, right? We do this and we do that. And I'm, we're part of, we were a blessing and a curse. We are part of the Lucile Packard Stanford hospital system. And so we get really great care. But it's a teaching hospital. Really smart people who, and I, you know, I feel kind of bad saying this, because, of course, I kept my daughter alive. But I'm not on the qulified

Scott Benner 17:34
we're just getting in the world of, of medicine, and they're seeing maybe sometimes you're seeing things for the first time or still figuring it out.

Susan 17:42
Well, it's just all very clinical, you know. So, as far as you know, textbook eat, right. So, they, they're very knowledgeable. By the time they actually see patients on a regular basis. They're full fledged doctors, this is their practice. Right? But, um, everything's always like, Huh, that's interesting. You know,

Scott Benner 18:05
you don't really finale to it and the fields are there. Yeah,

Susan 18:09
yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And so I'm, you know, I'm, I'm trying to navigate this world, I'm trying to navigate this world on no sleep. You know, um, and so it's just on top of all of this, they're telling me, Oh, no, she needs to do manage it all by herself, because almost an adult, and I'm thinking, you know,

Scott Benner 18:36
it 14 how you're almost an adult? Yeah,

Susan 18:38
I like two weeks ago, I thought she was an idiot.

Scott Benner 18:43
The kid doesn't know the difference between bigger and smaller.

Susan 18:48
And you're asking her to dose herself. Are you on crap? Yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker 18:53
not here. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Susan 18:54
That's right. You've got four PhDs got it. So yeah. And so we this whole time, this whole years has been me an internal mental struggle about how much to manage, and how much to let go, which has just been I was just telling my husband last night, it has just throw me to the wall. You know, and you add to the sleeplessness on top of it. Even with a we have a dexcom. And, like the other night, I was up to one o'clock because I was watching a trend and I'm like, it don't like this trend too much. And it started to even out and I'm like, Okay, I think I'm safe. I go to bed. I literally fall asleep when the alarm goes off. But I'm so tired. I didn't even hear the alarm. He didn't hear the alarm. Genevieve didn't hear the alarm. And she wakes up and she's she's a mom, I'm only in the 50s and I'm like, Okay, what do you do? Because I had a juice and so kidney went back to sleep. But it took me a while to do that.

Scott Benner 19:55
And she did she struggle a little bit to like with her dexterity and to actually Take it and thinker get her wake herself up to do it all that

Susan 20:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's in bed going, I really should get up but I really don't want to this woman

Scott Benner 20:11
the low blood sugar death spiral, I'll just sit here and die. And so I tell you I've, I've said it on here before I've washed out and sit in my living room inside. I'm like, Hey, you got to get up and get something she's like, I'm just gonna sit here and die. And I think partly she's joking. And I think partly she's in that. Yeah, where her brains like going, it's gonna be alright, like, go to the light, you know? And so I hear you. Well, listen, first of all, you know, sitting up and watching, like something you think is going to happen? I think we all have done that, that that's certainly true. Can you tell me like a little nuts and bolts? What were you looking at as a number? And like around that one o'clock time? Where did it go? Where you're like, Oh, this is gonna be okay, and I went to sleep. You guys, you guys are great. In the last 30 days, more Juicebox Podcast listeners have gone to try a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump than almost any other time. In the four years I've been doing this podcast, there was only one month with more link clicks. And that month I was on my ads were great that month, you didn't even have a chance. But seriously, if you haven't tried the Omni pod yet, did you know that they have a free, no obligation demonstration, they'll send you a pod in the mail. And you can actually wear it and see what you think there's no obligation, as I just said, you know what that means you're not obligated to do anything. And it is 100%. Free. And free is the best amount of money you can owe somebody. I mean, if you owed somebody 10 cents, that's not even as good as free. I mean, for 10 cents, you'd have to like get an envelope, write a check, put a stamp on it probably cost you $1 50 to send somebody 10 cents, but free, you don't even have to send, they don't ask you over at the Omni pod to put like nothing in an envelope and send it to them. There's nothing for you to do, except try on the pod and say to yourself, hey, that's Scott guy at the podcast. He's making sense, this thing is amazing. I'm gonna keep going, I'm gonna keep doing, I want to wear a tubeless insulin pump. I want to set temp basals I want to do extended boluses. I want to live free of tubing free of needles. This is what I want. And how do I get that I go to my omnipod.com forward slash juice box. Or I click on the links in the show notes on your podcast player right now. Or at Juicebox podcast.com. You know you want to.

Susan 22:44
So it had started out around 120. And it was a dot dot dot down to around 90, e and then played with 92 and 93 for like five or six dots. And like I said by within It's one o'clock and I've convinced myself this is fine. It's gonna hold up. Yeah, it's gonna hold up. Not really, in some of it might be me being tired. And some of it might be me just wishful thinking. Not really. Yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 23:13
going to sleep now. Right? No, no.

Susan 23:17
You know, if I had looked at the previous thoughts, which I knew about, but I was just so focused on those three or four or five, that, you know, she was like 300, you know, a couple hours earlier.

Scott Benner 23:27
Okay. So you're in that spot, really where when we talk about that a lot like highs end up causing lows, because yeah, you get the 300 because you've missed time, some insulin at some point, probably for your dinner. And then eventually you look at that 300 long enough and you go, okay, more insulin. But then now the insulins in and it's mis timed off the back end of the carbs, the carbs disappear, then the insulin is leftover. You have a big blood sugar, so it takes time for it to come down. But then when it gets in that like not that freefall but that drift. Yeah, yeah. There's no way to stop that drift ever like it? You probably it's interesting, but at isn't it when you stop and think about it? If 1130 ish, you would have just shut her bazel off for probably an hour that night that that 93 probably would have held up? Yep, Yeah, yep. And so have you seen that in the past?

Susan 24:20
Yes. And, you know, and we go and we go in spurts about it. Because the more I hands off I am, the more this tends to happen. And the irony is, is that I started listening to Juicebox Podcast, I'd say September, like right after school started for us. I was

Scott Benner 24:41
at the end of 2017. You started listening.

Susan 24:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, this last school year. And so I would say hey, listen to this guy. And you know, and she's like, Oh, that's interesting, and she loved hearing stories. So I'd pick her up and to love hearing stories about Arden and in you and you know where caller I listened to that day, sometimes it was two or three because I tend to bid stuff.

Scott Benner 25:04
Sure in case you're stuck in your car. So it's perfect. Yeah,

Susan 25:07
exactly.

Scott Benner 25:08
I never understood really why I have way more downloads in California till I stopped and thought about the like, because every state in the country listens to this podcast, which is really cool. And countries around the world, I've almost an all of them. But man, California is disproportionately bigger for downloads, and I realized that people are just trapped in your cars.

Susan 25:28
We are. I don't know why I pay a mortgage, you know? Yeah. Our shower at the house and live in the car. Um, so, you know, so we've talked a lot about friends and we talk a lot about, you know, let's try to head things off and she's gotten when she thinks about it, when she's actively managing. She's really good. You have to keep her a one c between, I'd say it's six, six and seven. That's great. Um, which I mean, what's a mommy look like better, but she's doing it on her own as a six year old. I think that's amazing. That's really good. You know, because I really don't I, like I don't even know I have every time I touch that PDF, because we also have an on the pod. I had to stop and think how does this damn thing work?

Scott Benner 26:12
Oh, that's great. So she really does have a hold of it then. And yeah, listen to get the 300 I mean, it's not it doesn't sound like it's all the time obviously with that. Yeah. So she's doing great, but, but it's but it is it becomes a bigger thought like the rest of like, how to get this 300 down as quick as I can without it being a low leader, and especially bumping up on, you know, going to bed and let's you know,

Susan 26:38
well, and this is the this is the thing and where this whole? Like, is she not? She depressed? Is she anxious? Is she not paying attention? Is she? Um, she like, Oh, well, you know, this is my life now. You know? And are is it just her being 16? and not wanting to

Scott Benner 27:00
know, all that a little bit mixed together? And how to figure that out? Right?

Susan 27:06
And I and I manage? I'm the one who manages the night stuff. If it comes up? If I wake up? I'm

Unknown Speaker 27:16
like that.

Susan 27:17
Yeah, right. Exactly. And, um, because remember, my husband is live with us. He lives in the car. And you know, so it's like, Okay, this isn't you having a low and feeling like, crap the next day. It's me, too. You know, and so then I think about my getting everyone keeps playing. Because we're in the college season, you have an older one too. So you know what the whole, you know, LSAT, and where are you going to college nephew's visit in? Blah, blah, blah? And here's me I start spiraling going? Um, yeah, how's that gonna work? You know, because I'm not going to be there if she goes away to school, but I don't want to I don't want diabetes to define our life. Okay. You know, for sure. So, well, let's see what I mean. And on and on. I do.

Scott Benner 28:06
Okay, so we'll take a break here for a second, while Indy drinks water. What are you doing? I left the water on the floor and the dog never cried. Just let it happen. We'll put the ad in here. Do you know that since dancing for diabetes has been advertising on this podcast, they've begun to get donations from all over the globe. I can't thank you enough. And they can't either. But they would like to try by showing you pictures and videos of adorable children dancing. It's hit dancing for diabetes.com it's dancing the number for diabetes.com. They also have a great Instagram and Facebook page. You should go check it out. Thank you so much for supporting them. I want to go back to sort of what what I was I'm hearing a little bit about the the anxiety and stuff. So what what so far what I've heard from you is kind of goes back to an episode from a couple weeks ago, like you worry about things before they're real. Right? Right. And, and that but but the difference between someone doing that consciously, and someone having anxiety or you know, depression, it's a different road. And so, you know, so if it's just someone being dramatic and panicking, you can say to them, like worries, a waste of imagination, you know, and that's a, that's a reasonable thing to tell somebody, like snap out of it, stop doing that. Right?

Unknown Speaker 29:34
Right.

Scott Benner 29:35
But if you're a person who lives with anxiety, that's just me saying something to you, it's not valuable anyway. And so that is more what I was hoping to talk about today, which is Yeah, when you actually have a, you know, a clinical diagnosis or you are a person who know you live with this anxiety, how does how do you negotiate these things and have you found a way through yet

Susan 29:58
um, you know, when I'm taking good care of myself, I know, I do all the things that everybody's supposed to do, eat right, get enough sleep. For me, meditating really helps us having that, you know, even if it's literally 30 seconds of clear your mind, because, you know, stop it, literally stop it. I'm trying to live in the moment, it's, you know, all those platitudes, they're there for a reason. And so when I really try to do that, and just really just take a breath, and, you know, I have two amazing daughters who are just phenomenally hilarious. And who do, you know, who are good people, you know, and I have a husband who puts up with me, and all my craziness. And I have, you know, I have my own business. And, you know, I own a house, you know, I just go through all these things, to be thankful for

Scott Benner 30:58
him to stop yourself, and you just remind yourself that things aren't nearly as bad as they feel. Is that right? And a lot of good that you you're not recognizing always?

Susan 31:08
Exactly. Because my mind once it's like, it's a program, you know, like, some people are programmed to be, I don't know, authors, or, you know, racecar drivers, or whatever my mind is programmed to think of worst case scenarios. You know,

Scott Benner 31:25
I hear you What if our jet plane crashes into a volcano, we don't own a jet plane. But what if we get one and write that kind of stuff? And I'll tell you, if you've listened to these podcasts going back over these hundred and however many episodes, I have spoken to people, sometimes you can tell while they're talking that their anxiety is in control that they don't have the ability to stop it. And and the answer isn't, we'll be less anxious. The answer is, how do I cope with who I am in this situation? Right, right. And that's really what I think you were reaching out and asking like you what you were wanted was I, I need to click on one of these downloads, where someone tells me they're really anxious, and this is how they handle it, not how they not how they fixed it. Is that right?

Susan 32:08
Right. Right. And, you know, yes, because get online and you see, you know, there's things like Facebook, or even the podcasts are a double edged sword, right? Because you can identify, I think you've even talked about this before, to you know, people like, Oh, my God, I'm up into the middle of the night, you know, I look at my number, it's 40 going straight down. And that's great in the moment, because like, Okay, I'm not the only one in the whole universe who's dealing with this, right. But there's never there's very rarely the next step.

Scott Benner 32:42
Yeah. There's no value past that.

Susan 32:44
Yes, yes. And that's what I was kind of looking for. I mean, there's a, because we're such a weak subset. I mean, how many people have T one D, right? And how many parents are dealing with this? And here's Okay. And then this is where my mind is not healthy. I actually have a dear friend, I met her when our oldest. So for babies, it's like a new moms group. And her daughter was diagnosed, she was less than two.

Scott Benner 33:15
So if you've known a person whose child has had type one,

Susan 33:19
type one, right? Yeah.

Scott Benner 33:20
Did you ever go to her for help or anything?

Susan 33:23
Oh, we're in the hospital, you know, and I email her literally in the middle of the night. And here we are, and this is what's happening. But don't worry, don't you don't need to come over and you because I'm worried about her and her lack of sleep. Now, I worry about my crap and her crap, too.

Scott Benner 33:43
You know, it's really interesting, really, because there is a moment there where most people would be like, Listen, if there's anything you can offer me in the way of advice? Yeah, I'd like to hear it. And you were like, No, you must be tired from your kid having diabetes. You have anxiety enough for her and for you.

Susan 34:02
And we actually just met last week for coffee. And it's so funny, because we've always been good friends. But I walk into the establishment. And there's literally like, 10 of us who've stayed friends since this class and sit down abuse. Ah, yeah. But not all of us get together all the time. So most of them were ordering coffee, and she cooked. And I just complained for a minute and then like, go for it. Please.

Scott Benner 34:29
I listened to a podcast I wish they would curse on but they don't.

Susan 34:34
You know, I wasn't that you were like, gonna take a while to edit. Because, you know,

Scott Benner 34:39
we did curse a couple of times. Yeah, yeah, there's part of me that thinks I want it to be good for kids to listen to, which is and I know that I say sometimes that I curse, like almost consistently through my life. Like I am genuinely amazed when I talk to somebody for an hour and this podcast and I didn't curse I sometimes I finished. I'm like, Wow, what an accomplishment. But I wish there was a way in iTunes to just make one of them explicit. So I could have somebody on it, we could just have like a, like a planning session like that. But then you'd have to make the whole show explicit, or the whole show clean. So I can't do that. But you guys got together for coffee. And you did that?

Susan 35:18
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was, you know, and it was just a whole new bonding experience. And like, a month before that I had actually emailed her and go, Okay, I know, I'm crazy. You know, I'm crazy. I would I feel bad contacting you, when I have a question. Because you are not the, you know, authority, just because you've been doing it longer. And she just email back like, yeah, you are crazy. You can always ask me about anything, you know. And so, you know, yeah. When I when I emailed you and said, hey, that's really I you know, because I feel like I'm learning so much from the podcast and from your other listeners, you know, when they when you have conversations with them, I'm like, you know, there's maybe I am doing much better than I think because my anxiety is telling me I'm crazy. I'm

Scott Benner 36:11
what is interesting, isn't it that your daughter's 16 managing her blood sugar mostly on her own? And her Awan see you said was really is I thought very good. And so what is it you're worried about? Like and you but you did. You mentioned it earlier? Let me let me stop myself. I shouldn't have even asked the question, right now worried about college, which is like, probably two and a half years from now.

Susan 36:34
All right. Well, it's a year from now a year

Scott Benner 36:37
and a half year and a half a year. But see, you just did it there. What really is the difference between a year and a half from now in two and a half years. Now? The point is, it's a long time from now.

Susan 36:47
Not tomorrow night.

Scott Benner 36:50
And that's so much can happen between now and then that and now I'm going to be cliched. And I'm going to go back to the title one of those old episodes. By the time somebody hears this one. Worry is a waste of imagination, because you're worried about something a year and a half from now, that might work itself out in that year, if you can be thinking about something actually important right now. Right? What?

Susan 37:12
I still haven't done

Scott Benner 37:14
what I was just gonna say if you weren't riddled with anxiety, what should you be thinking about right now?

Susan 37:21
I should probably be thinking about like, do I have food for dinner tonight? Do you know? I'm finishing my taxes, which are like 90% done, but I can't seem to get them done. I'm going to the gym. Right?

Scott Benner 37:34
So my bigger question is, is ignoring those things also causing you anxiety?

Susan 37:39
Sure, because that's how being an adult

Scott Benner 37:41
you are in a cycle of insanity. By the way, we might call this episode cycle of insanity, but probably not. But but but but so. But there's a there's a that to me. When you said you have somebody to talk to about this. I said no. When I said to have you on you had to realize that at some point we were going to get into like trying to figure out how could you do better. And so that's my first thought as a unlicensed unqualified therapist through a podcast, which is literally as meaningless as talking to a wall but

Susan 38:16
no advice whatsoever, because that's not we

Scott Benner 38:18
don't give advice here on the Juicebox Podcast. That's right and but here's what it sounds like to me is that by by worrying about the future, you stop yourself from considering the present, which then also causes you more anxiety which totally makes it impossible for you to find that quiet place where you can remember that things are going better than you think that you have a lot of good stuff in your life and that you're it's not all doom and gloom and and so then I think in my mind your your answer should be that you really have to force yourself to only thinking about today and tomorrow. Like do it do that for a little while until you get yourself out of that cycle and then because if you get rid of this today, anxiety about the taxes in the gym and all that stuff you should be doing what's for dinner, then maybe you will be more focused on the blood sugar's not have a 300 gets you up to one o'clock in the morning that has a blood sugar of 50 overnight, which then makes you worry the next day about the next day. You have to somewhere you have to start clean. Yeah, you know, you have to just push everything off your desk and go I don't care what any of this is I'm throwing it out. And we're gonna start over again. Because if not, you can't it's too life is too bang bang it happens too quickly. You you'll never lose the triggers from today that trigger tonight the trigger tonight the trigger tomorrow that caused bad blood sugars that cause anxiety that cause you not to buy gym bla bla bla bla bla how do you do that?

Unknown Speaker 39:51
Right now? Not

Scott Benner 39:52
right you got to tell me if you find yourself wondering what is my blood Sure, we're thinking, I hope my daughter's blood sugar is not going up today. I hope it's not going down. I hope it's staying steady. I hope. I hope I hope I hope I wonder I wonder if you find yourself hoping and wondering. You don't need to do that. Because Dexcom can take out the wonder and add in wonder. See how wonder can be used two different ways in the English language? What a messed up language Hmm. Like you wonder about something like you think about it and decide I can't decide if this is true or not because I don't have enough information that's wondering. But then wonder like all bright eyed and like, Oh my god, this is amazing. same word spelled the same way. What a messed up language, maybe halfway through the ad. Sorry, next time. If you want to know what someone's blood sugar's doing or what your blood sugar's doing which direction it's moving in how fast it's going. The dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor is right for you. Not only is it FDA approved to make treatment decisions that's give yourself insulin without a finger stick. But it shows you what your blood sugar is, and how fast it's moving. Or if it's moving at all. Imagine to know that your blood sugar's 90 and steady. Instead of having it be 90 when you check it with a finger stick and then wonder I don't know is it about the Fall is about to go up? I'll never know because I only know what I'm testing. But not with Dexcom. Next time is continuous. That's the see in the CGM. You know what else it does? It shares loved ones blood sugars with anyone you want. So for instance, I know what Arden's blood sugar is right now while she's at school, and you could to go to dexcom.com, forward slash juicebox, with the links in the show notes at Juicebox podcast.com. And get started today. Don't wonder anymore. be full of wonder.

Unknown Speaker 41:47
Oh, yes, right.

Scott Benner 41:48
Scott, how do I do that? No, no, no. So after going through it like that, and thinking about it in a real kind of nuts and bolts way, like what do you think your first step should be?

Susan 41:59
Well, you know, you're absolutely right, I do need to literally like wainfleet and just start fresh in.

Unknown Speaker 42:09
I think I need this sometimes.

Susan 42:11
Why yes. And sometimes I'm really good about that. You know, I physically say stop it. And I and I think what has happened is that I've gotten to this bad cycle in the last few years. And it's almost as if diabetes has triggered me again, somehow because I used to not, I was I go in cycles about how bad this is. But it's gotten, I literally had a friend told me one day you are out of control, you are literally spinning out of control. And I was able to stop it for a little while. And I found it amping up again,

Scott Benner 42:41
and have to understand that it's going to ramp up. Because like I said, this isn't just you having a this is not just an academic conversation you do you are a person with anxiety so so maybe you have to just realize that when it's when you see it ramp up, you have to start over and clean slate and I'll tell you it's funny as we're talking. It just occurred to me that I say to my wife all the time or on the podcast, like there are times when when you get on that like roller coaster with your blood sugar's The only answer is to stop, like stop eating, you know, no more carbs until we can get back to a steady place and start over again. Because like some roller coasters, you can't stop. You can't, you can only get off them. And so you know, it's not like you. I think this is very similar in that like, maybe you can write maybe you don't I mean, maybe you can't stop it from ever happening. But maybe you need to recognize sooner. Okay. This is this is a start over need, like right here. Like I have to start over right now. And even if that's every day, do you know what I mean? Like me, even if I do you know what I mean?

Susan 43:47
Yeah, maybe they'll put people meditate in the morning.

Scott Benner 43:50
I don't have anxiety. That's I mean, as we're talking about it, oh my god, I'm so grateful. And I don't mean to joke. I don't feel that way. You know, because it is. It does feel insurmountable as you're talking about it, but at the same time, you can't let it be that you're gonna have to find a way to knock it back. I

Unknown Speaker 44:10
start over again.

Susan 44:12
Right. Well, and it doesn't do anybody any good is that I know intellectually, I know that all the preparing in the world is not going to the zombies are still gonna come. Right. You know,

Scott Benner 44:22
it is the saddest part of listening to you talking. I don't you're not bumming me out. Like it's that the it's not controllable. Like that. It's not it's not just Oh, like you said academically or understand this. So it should happen. And right. It really is. I mean, there's a ton of stuff in life like that. Like I'm pretty sure I understand. I shouldn't have had an Oreo last night but I totally right. Yeah. And say it. Hmm. And you know, is it

Susan 44:50
Well, no, it is it is because, you know, in the past, I've been on meds the past and they have been helpful, but those even then they don't know make things go away. They just make things more manageable. At the end of the day, I have to learn coping skills to manage I can't only wait for beds to make them go away is for you to be so doped up your

Scott Benner 45:13
zombie. Yeah, right. That's not.

Susan 45:15
That's that's not living either. Right. Right. Yeah. You know, being a mother, you know?

Scott Benner 45:20
Yeah. Well, and then I guess the more important part is, is that you only have a year and a half left to here, watch online, I'll add to your anxiety you. Sorry, Susan, you have a year and a half left to set a good example, for your daughter before she leaves for school. Right. And that might be the most important part of this, maybe you won't ever be okay. But you really do need to do everything you can do to send her out in the world with these tools. Because the one she gets there without them. I mean, that's, that's the thing you should really be worried about. Right? Is is staying on this path, and then her leaving on this path. So if you need a way to shock yourself back into, like, you know, reality over and over again, maybe that's the focus you use. It's like, I need to do this for her. You know, for me,

Susan 46:12
yeah. Oh, wow. Hold. I'm having a moment. Hold on a second. Sorry. No, that's okay.

Scott Benner 46:18
Perfect, so people can hear you. I'm just kidding.

Susan 46:23
Me, My nose is that big.

Scott Benner 46:26
If you want to make any grand pronouncements about the podcast right now, remind people to subscribe at the end of it while you're sniffling? Sure.

Susan 46:34
Well, you know, the whole thing started with talking to Genevieve about blood sugars and maybe trying to get them under control. But you hadn't had a podcast? You said multiple times that it was the first time I had heard it, about how you talk about, um, you want artists to be her authentic, best self. Yeah. Right. And so I was telling Genevieve about that. And we started talking about, you know, when she's high fees, really anxious. And she's low, he gets into these deep, dark depression. And she actually really that first year, she really struggled with depression. And she's still not, at least not to me, she doesn't articulate why or where she was with that. But you know, we both know that when she keeps her blood sugar, we spend like, like 90 and 120. That is, that's my girl.

Unknown Speaker 47:29
Yeah, right.

Susan 47:30
And anything outside those numbers, she starts being a crazy teenager, as opposed to chubby

Scott Benner 47:38
guy just it ramps everything up in one way or the other just throws your throws off that. I mean, listen, it's not it's not that hard to understand, right, your brain a certain level of, of sugar to work properly. And when you give it too much or too little, you get weird effects, like the ones you described. And, you know, yeah, and then and then the anxiety comes. And then the anxiety makes the managing the diabetes harder, which keeps you with the blood sugars. And that's why these tools for the blood sugars are probably I'm hoping valuable, too, which is really yeah, like nuts and bolts ways to, like, just kind of stay ahead of things. So you don't have to sometimes think too much about it. You just have to remember, you know, a mantra saying I just need to be bold here. Or it's I'd rather deal with a low than a high like that kind of like stuff that we talked about in the podcast that I hope makes day to day stuff. You know, it's always my goal that you don't think about it as much that it's just like, Oh, this is the situation this thing applies here. And

Susan 48:39
Exactly, exactly. And so, you know, I think what I've done talking to you and kind of talking about myself, that was bad.

Scott Benner 48:51
And I'm like, she'll talk herself right through it. And it'll be fine. Good.

Susan 48:54
Yeah. And then you'll put me up for your amusement.

Scott Benner 48:58
for other people to learn, like you learn

Susan 49:00
other people's amusement Got it? Okay. I'm fine with it. Um, but I have started, I've just kind of transferred some of my anxiety into her numbers. Like I can't control them. Right? my anxieties around things I can't control right. And so I just need to be me. I can't I've not heard numbers. I'm not, you know, or anyone see is not a great on me. You know, we're two separate people. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 49:29
think that one of the biggest things I did for myself and in conjunction then we did for Arden was and I was able to do it more. It's just like a cognitive decision where that might not be the same for you. But I was able to say that to myself, like, okay, when something goes and that's why you hear me talk about on the podcast like this. Now when something goes wrong, it can't be wrong. Like I can't think of it as a mistake, right or a mess up. It has to just be ra that happened. Here's what I learned from it. I'll use that. Later, so something like this doesn't happen again. And and leave it behind. And I don't know if that's just me luckily being able to do that with my personality, but I didn't do it at first, I can tell that I can tell you that in the beginning, these things all piled on top of me like wet blankets, and you know, worse and worse and worse. And, and I don't know, just one day, I realized, if I don't do this, I'm gonna make myself crazy, and I'm gonna kill her, you know, so I have, I have to do this. And there are plenty of things in life, whether you have anxiety, or depression or your your you don't, or you have any other number of things going on, there are plenty of moments in life as an adult, and sometimes as a child, that you have to throw the gauntlet down for yourself and say, if I don't do this, I'm not going to file follow a path with my life, that it's going to be valuable as far as I can tell. And sometimes some people do it and some people don't. You know, so I think in the end, if that's your, that's it, it's like, you have to decide, like, Am I going to whatever my demons are, am I going to push past them?

Susan 51:01
Right. Right. And if you know, I, you know, one of my I actually don't worry about Lowe's anymore. And I attribute that to the podcast. So, um, well, what's

Scott Benner 51:18
low that you don't worry about

Susan 51:20
what 5050 used to? Like? I was like, literally hyperventilating. Um, because 50 is really close to 40 and 40. It's really close to the number of the word low, which is, you know, then what the hell are you? You know, and so that helps a lot. And oh, and I'm just, we're just a couple pieces of candy or a juice box do normal. Right? And yes,

Scott Benner 51:48
and I agree, listen, obviously, I agree with you. 100%. But of course, situationally 50 falling really fast is you might want to panic then, but not not, you know, not panic like that. But do something more specifically. But if you drift down and hit a 50, you're like, Okay, here's some stuff. And this will come back up again, that that's, I think that's healthy, and it needs to be listened. Jeff's yesterday and Arden's endo appointment, she pulls all this data up in front of me. And she goes, I see a 62 here I don't like and I said the I didn't like it either. I said that she goes, what happened. I said she has diabetes, we use manmade insulin, right. That's what happened. And so, you know, she looked at me and I look back at her and I'm like, Look, I gotta be honest with you. I don't want my daughter's blood sugar to go under 70 if I can help it, I said, but I'm not gonna get upset if it's 60. And I'm also not going to get upset if it's 60 for a little while. 1520 minutes. I'm not worried about that. I said, You know, I don't want it to go below there. And when it gets to 50 I, you know, I would definitely everything ramps up a little bit. But I'm not running around with my my hair on fire. I also tried to avoid it at all costs, like you should understand the other side of it. But you can't point to a 62 in this graph and tell me what happened here. Because if you don't know what happened here, you shouldn't be in the room with me.

Susan 53:11
I know. Yes, exactly. Who's the one with the five degrees?

Scott Benner 53:16
Yeah, by the way, and she understood and if it was gone like that, you know, and she said, maybe attempt bazel there would have helped I said, I think it definitely would have you're 100% right. And I'll think about it next time. I appreciate it. And that was

Susan 53:30
sort of the that was the end of that. Yeah. Yeah, I've had to turn off the highlighter. Um, because this goes back to letting Genevieve manage her diabetes. Okay. And me trying to step back and actually trying to alleviate some of the anxiety because Genevieve has always had a habit of managing it really well during the day she comes home after school and it's like she forgets that she has diabetes. And so then I was I felt it was just one more thing for me to harp on. You pick up your socks, your homework, check your blood sugar, you know, why did you do that? Bolus, Bolus, Bolus Bolus woman fall asleep?

Scott Benner 54:12
I'm gonna stop you for a second. Yeah. You said she gets good grades.

Unknown Speaker 54:17
Mm hmm.

Scott Benner 54:18
Stop bugging her about her homework then. let that go. Yeah, yeah. Right. And and so what if there's some socks on the floor? What's that go to? Like, give yourself a break from that stuff? Like, like, you know what I mean? Like, find ways to find ways to like give yourself permission to not worry about things that in the end aren't going to matter. No matter Yeah. I mean, listen, I like a clean house. My house is clean right now. But it also looks lived in there's pots on the countertop. There's, you know, there's a basket full of half, you know, finished clothes on next to my bag like we live in this house. Yeah, you know, there are no people taking care of us. So there's always going to be that level of that and I and with us I'll tell you to the decision I made with my son as he was going off towards college, which he's now you know, just a couple months away from leaving. I kept thinking like, Alright, like, he's not great at this, but he's gonna be gone soon. So I need to put more of this on him. And let him see what happens when it doesn't work out. It's not like it's gonna get fixed right away. But at least he won't find out all these things in a wash on his first week of college.

Susan 55:23
Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Scott Benner 55:25
Yeah. So it is really as much as it's been your job to be like, Jen, have you homework, homework, homework homework for all these years, it's now your job to stop saying it. Like, it's now your job to tell her Hey, look, I think you're a great kid. I love how your grades are. I'm not going to be up your butt as much about homework. But I need you to know that I am going to check back in on it once in a while. And I have an expectation that you're going to continue on the path you're on right now. Don't Don't lie, don't you know? Do yourself the favor of continuing like this, and I'm gonna do you the favor of not watching anymore.

Susan 55:59
Right? Yeah. And I have been much better about that. That that does help. And that's where I learned from she has arms, but I don't anymore. About the high. Okay. And that has helped my anxiety because I'm on my dad's side a very slow death for type two diabetes, unmanaged. Right. And so like when you know, when you hear people talk about, oh, how am I going to get my kids to understand the high will? You know, over the course of time we'll do this to their body generally thought happened? Right? What happened to her Oprah,

Scott Benner 56:36
but that doesn't even listen,

Susan 56:38
but it doesn't register to us. Of course, even though she's seen it.

Scott Benner 56:42
Yes. Yeah. Like that's him. Not me. Exactly. Listen, again. You know, how many people who smoke go to the doctor and like, Hey, I went to the doctor, nothing was wrong. Smoking doesn't affect me the way it affects everyone else like, Oh, yeah, sure it doesn't. And so I you know, and, and I get that, but again, if anyone sees are good, why are you worried about that? Right, I'm gonna leave all that silence. And when I edit this together so that everyone can hear you go, Oh, yeah, I don't know. Why am I worried about that? It's so worried about the things that need to be worried about. There's plenty of stuff in the world that needs to be worried about I'm sure you know, like, so in your world. Don't Don't waste time on the stuff that's working. Well. I mean, that would be like, literally, if I got done with you here. I walked through my house into my kitchen, which has now been standing since 2010. When we remodeled this house. And if I looked at the cabinets in the wall and thought Oh, I hope they don't fall today.

Susan 57:41
Oh my god, you're right. Oh, yeah.

Scott Benner 57:42
I really hope the cabinets don't fall off the wall today. Why would I worry about that? You mean like you can. It really is. It's where you're going to find your peace is to is to just put your effort and stop thinking of it as worry, by the way, put your effort into the things that need your effort. And the things that don't need your effort. Don't need your effort. They work. They just work. I tell my wife all the time. I'm like, Has this ever been a problem in our life? And she was no one I'm like, Well, why are you expecting it to be? That doesn't make any sense. We've never had an issue with this. For as long as we've known each other Why would you think that today's the day and and by the way, Susan, if today's the day, then deal with it then. You know like yes, it's interesting. You were you almost have the across that bridge when I come to it concept backwards.

Susan 58:38
Yes, I do. I do. Right? Like Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 58:41
have. Good. I'm sorry.

Susan 58:43
Oh, no, I was gonna say I it's like, I have created my own Swiss Army Knife of useless crap.

Scott Benner 58:50
It really, it's interesting. You are a Swiss Army Knife of useless crap. Because seriously, I'll cross that bridge when it comes when I come to it about my taxes. That's a bad idea. The taxes idea you need to get to right away because that really is a thing that's happening and that has a time sensitive situation. My daughter's not going to understand high blood sugars and how it's going to kill her like my father but our eight one C is seven. That's really not something you should be thinking about.

Susan 59:20
That's kind of that's that's the definition of crazy, right? Right.

Scott Benner 59:25
Well, it might be a little bit but but at the same time and I see how it was not to laugh because it's it's a hard to like see it and not Yeah, and not be able to just stop. I mean that again, it's what's gonna stick with me when you and I get done talking today is, is this has been a really great upbeat conversation about a really kind of like dark idea, but right when it sticks with me later, all I'm going to realize is Wow, she is a bright woman who understood and still couldn't like, stop herself from worrying that the cabinets were going to fall off the wall. Like that's it. insane,

Susan 1:00:01
right? I mean, really? Yeah, it really is.

Scott Benner 1:00:04
It really comes down to at some point you have I said it the other day on an episode. I love this idea that a couple of times a year, frozen urine from an airplane falls and kills somebody. It happens statistically. Right? Right. But could you imagine if you wandered your entire life thinking frozen urine is gonna fall on my head and kill me in a second? What a waste that would be. And, and, and it really, I mean, I don't know what your motivating factor will be to get you back to clean slate faster. But that's what in my mind, that's what you need to do is you need to remember that you have to clean slate it sometimes there's going to be stuff that's going to pop in your head that you can't fix and make go away. So you just have to throw it out.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:48
And okay, recognize it

Scott Benner 1:00:49
soon enough that it doesn't pile up to where you can't see the desk.

Susan 1:00:52
I now have a new measuring stick. Go ahead. I'm just gonna call it the frozen the frozen urine measuring.

Scott Benner 1:01:00
I am not gonna worry about frozen urine falling on my head tonight that maybe is what you should say to yourself when you wake up.

Susan 1:01:07
I'm gonna measure it against that. Which one would be more likely? Yeah, well, some of my scenarios would probably be more likely I have to

Scott Benner 1:01:16
tell you that now that I've really considered this. It's very possible. I'm just going to call the episode frozen. You're on won't fall on me. And so I just it really, I mean, it really is. There are a billion things that go like I'll tell you something I so I bought we bought a house that was this tiny like shack basically, right? And we always knew one day we're gonna be more successful, we're gonna knock this shack down, because this is great property. And we're gonna build this better house, which we eventually were able to do. On the corner of this little thousand square foot house that we bought originally was this oak tree. And I had the luck one day of being outside long time years and years ago working on my house, and this old man pulls up, pulls in my driveway, and he says, Hi, how are you? My name is bah, bah, bah, I built this house with my brother and I lived in it for many years and raised my family here and I was like, Oh my gosh, so great to meet us in his 60s. Then he walked around the property with me there's this long line of bushes that he loved and I thought I felt so bad because I was I genuinely had already rented a machine to rip him out of the ground but it just hadn't been delivered yet. Right. And and then he told me about I have these a couple of these great oak trees on these oak trees on my property and this one that's right on the corner of the house. And he tells me one day my wife and I drove to the farm and he points back to where there are houses now behind me because used to be a farm back there. We drove with my car and a shovel. We dug up this little sapling. I planted it there. And here it is now. It's got to be no lie. 15 or 20 feet around and its base it is this huge, healthy, amazing tree. And Susan, if it ever falls, it's going to kill everyone. Oh, right on the corner of my house right at Arden's bedroom, right. And we had some bad weather this season and like really high winds and stuff like that, and art looks at me and goes, is my tree gonna be okay, and I would absolutely. And then I walked out. I never thought about it. I got what am I gonna do? Am I gonna? Am I gonna sell the house? Am I gonna? Like, am I gonna go out there right now and cut down 100 foot tall tree like what am I What? It's probably it's been there for since that old man was 20. And he planted, it's fine. It's never fallen. I pay somebody every couple of years to take the dead branches out of it so they don't fall on my house. I can't worry about that oak tree. I can't if that oak tree is what kills me, then. Then that's, that's how I die then I but I can't spend my time worrying about end. If I can't stop thinking about that oak tree falling and killing me that it is incumbent incumbent upon me to either cut it down or sell this house and move. But I'm not going to live in it every day wondering if the oak tree is gonna fall my house. That's I can't bring myself to waste my time like that. Because, Susan, but one thing that offends me more than anything else is wasted time. It really burns my ass in a way that like, I hate having conversations with people where they're lying. And I know they're lying. And they know I'm yeah. I'm like, why are we doing this? I could have a heart attack in a second. This is how I'm going to use my last couple of seconds. I had an order last night. I can't make it much longer. Like you know, like that. That kind of thing. I

Susan 1:04:37
might hit frozen. Wow. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:40
I just don't. I can't abide wasted time. And at the moment, you are a delightful person with two wonderful girls. And a husband who's probably a saint from this conversation. I'm thinking yeah, and I don't want you to waste your time with it.

Susan 1:04:56
Right. Right, right.

Scott Benner 1:04:59
So I don't know. How are we gonna end this? Because we're at an hour. I don't know what to do.

Susan 1:05:02
Yeah. No, I you know, just hearing someone else say that. I'm, you know that I'm a delightful person, but then I'm wasting time because I wasted time. You can ask anybody that is a big annoyance for me. Sure. And because there's so much to be done in the day, there's so many things to worry about, you know, so many planes fly over my head.

Scott Benner 1:05:26
Exactly. It's Susan, listen, when you get done with this later, and you realize your husband should have told you this 10 years ago. Don't be mad at him. He still wants to have sex with you. I don't have that. I don't have to worry about that. So I'm able to say whatever I want to you. If you think I could say this to my wife, you're out of your mind.

Susan 1:05:47
Yeah, no worries about what's gonna happen there.

Scott Benner 1:05:49
I tried to bring up to my wife the other day, she comes to Oh my God, I hope she never hears as she comes downstairs. My wife has a when my wife's period comes her sense of smell like junk. Yeah. Right. So she comes downstairs think she smells something is like a mad person, like stomping around that everything. I don't smell anything. I don't know what she's talking about. And I stopped her and I just go, like I said, very thoughtfully. I'm not even kidding. I wasn't joking with her anything. I just said, Hey, you know, your periods coming in a couple of days, you know how your sense of smell gets? I think that might just be what's going on. Let me and I was gonna say like, let me take the trash out in case you know, there's a banana peel at the bottom that you're super sniffer is finding, you know, I couldn't even get those words out of him how she looked at me like I killed our children. And I was like, Oh, my God, I was just trying to be honest with you. What a mistake that was ruined the next two hours of my life, which is why your poor husband has not said this to you before. But why but why I'm able to, because I have no expectation that you and I ever gonna have sex.

Susan 1:06:54
That would be a feat in and of itself having been on opposite coasts?

Scott Benner 1:06:58
Well, you would think and so but, but seriously, like, I think what you were saying is right, is it sometimes you just need somebody to say something that you that you know, already? So I've done nothing here today is what I'm saying? Oh, well, you? Oh, well. At least that's another hour closer to death. We're good. But no, seriously, like, like, do you think like, so I feel like I should say something like more clinically valuable. Like if this conversation was helpful to you? Do you think that talking to a therapist once in a while is your answer? What do you what do you thinking is, I really want to know what this last hour made you consider

Susan 1:07:36
what I really need to know to say I need to take care of myself, but actually do it consistently. Like, I know what I need to do. I just need to make the time for myself to do it. Like instead of worrying about whether or not you know, gentlemen is going to be a 7.1 versus a 6.9 a one c Yeah, I should go to the gym, right and sweat it out. Or, you know, go to the movies or whatever it is I need to do for myself at that moment as opposed to just sitting there bawling and poop over.

Scott Benner 1:08:12
And you have to consider this to like, as you're talking about a onesies, Arden got hers yesterday is a five nine, the time before the time before that it was a six two. In my mind, I don't see any difference between a five nine and a six, two.

Susan 1:08:25
That's my point to it's like, really super serious.

Scott Benner 1:08:29
Right? And you shouldn't hear 5962 and then think of your seven one and go oh my God, what a heart. It's not a heart. Think of it. Think of it this way. The things that are encumbering you that are probably leading to your agency being a little higher than mine is. Are the things I'm not encumbered by so your your answer isn't to worry more your answers to worry less. And then they once he comes with it. And I and I do say this a lot. I hope people believe me. The less you think about diabetes, once you've got the plan, the easier it is and the easier it is the less stress that comes with less stress, less anxiety, less worried all it's almost I simplified it down to these ideas. I follow these ideas. If it doesn't go the way I expect I just start over again in my mind. And right and that freedom has allowed me not to panic and worry, I tell you there I used to cry out like you know, randomly, you know, and that doesn't happen to me anymore. Right? It's just it's it's it's a wonderful thing. It's just something that I genuinely believe you and anybody listening will get to at some point.

Susan 1:09:37
Yes. Yeah. Like I almost think I I've been thinking lately about not even having the share app on my phone. Um, but the concern there is I am the character, the nighttime caretaker if she were to go low.

Scott Benner 1:09:52
Susan, I don't think having the information is your anxiety. I think it's how you deal with it. That your anxiety because yeah, there You're just gonna worry about it still, right? Oh, yeah,

Susan 1:10:03
I just don't have any data to show whether or not

Scott Benner 1:10:06
don't out stone outsmart yourself like seriously like, you know, I listen if I'm you, yeah, and I'm not you if I'm you I go to the weekends, and on the weekends I push her her high threshold down to 130. And I tell her look, every time we hit this 130 we're gonna nudge it back a little bit, until that becomes her commonplace. And then you want to work, you want to stop worrying that our blood sugar is going to get high. reinforce the idea that we don't let it get high. And by and then once that becomes the way things go, then that's where you're that's where the anxiety goes away. I have not looked at Arden's blood sugar once since you and I have been talking not, I haven't even considered it. And I'm going to pull it up now for you. It's 84. Not only is it 84, but it's been between 70 and 130 for the last 12 hours. Yeah. And I haven't really thought about it much at all. And there's a pump change in there. And so and so, the point isn't that I'm better at it than you are because I not. The point is, is that I've gotten to a place that you're not at yet.

Susan 1:11:17
Yeah, well, and here's the other kicker is that I don't have any in reality, I have no control over Genovese numbers, because she takes care of it. All right. Yeah. Yeah. So why am I even freaking out?

Scott Benner 1:11:30
I have no idea says

Susan 1:11:34
all kinds of special. That's why

Scott Benner 1:11:35
I guess I listen. I genuinely think that it's something you can do. Can we keep in touch? I'd love to know. Yeah. All right. I'm gonna say goodbye here. Because we're like an hour and 10 minutes.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:47
Oh, sure.

Scott Benner 1:11:49
Thank you so much for coming on those.

Susan 1:11:51
Oh, no worry.

Scott Benner 1:11:53
Dexcom on the pod and dancing for diabetes. Much love. Thank you for supporting the show. Go to Miami pod.com forward slash juicebox. Ex con com forward slash juicebox or dancing the number four diabetes.com to learn more about the sponsors. Thank you so much to Susan for coming on and sharing so openly. That was amazing. There are a few more weeks left in 2018. We are going to finish up strong this year. A lot of great episodes including and get ready. When I tell you this you might want to hold on to something if you're washing dishes don't get near like a sharp knife right now. If you're walking through the grocery store, let's not bang into an old lady. Listen to this right here. Coming soon to the Juicebox Podcast in December of 2018. The star of ABCs blackish. Anthony Anderson. Oh, that's right. This is the podcast that delivers. There's a couple other ones, but I mean, honestly, you know, this is the best one

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#195 T1D Ryan has a DIYK9

Ryan has a do-it-yourself T1D service dog….

As Ryan fights to be a police officer with T1D his journey leads him to train his own diabetes service dog. 

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - google play/android - iheart radio -  or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, Welcome to Episode 195 of the Juicebox Podcast. I just want to take a brief moment before we start and talk about Thanksgiving. This episode's going up just a few days before the holiday in 2018. And I'm seeing a disturbing amount of blogs and podcasts and people talking about, oh, it's diabetes, Thanksgiving, you can't win, just do your best. You know, don't worry about it if your blood sugar's high all day. I don't think any of that's necessary. And I simply don't like it. So if you have 15 minutes, when you're done listening to this, go back to Episode 139. It's a quick sit down that I did last year that just talked about how I was going to handle Thanksgiving, give it a try. Don't just accept that's just diabetes. Okay, so as the fourth year, that's correct, as the fourth season of the Juicebox Podcast comes to a close here through November and December, and we reached 200 episodes. I want to take a minute to remind you and me to be perfectly honest, that we couldn't have gotten here without the sponsors. That dex comment on the pot have been with me forever. And I want to thank them for that. I also want to thank them for re upping for 2019 Yes, very excited. And there's some more advertisers that are going to come on in 2019. I also don't want to forget the time that dancing for diabetes has been spending with us. Now dancing for diabetes has had their big show, but they are still going strong doing great work for kids with type one in the Florida area and beyond. Please take a minute, at the end of this episode to listen to a package piece. The dancing for diabetes made that I'm gonna I'm gonna put for you at the end. So you can listen I watched the video you'll hear the audio. It made me cry. But none of this good stuff happens if you don't click on the link, right. So if you're looking for an insulin pump, you want to go to my on the pod.com Ford slash juice box. You want to CGM you want to see what your blood sugar's doing. I know you do dexcom.com forward slash juice box and of course, dancing for diabetes.com that's dancing the number for diabetes.com. Listen closely because this is gonna blow your mind. Brian has type one diabetes for a long time. He wanted to be a police officer, he became a police officer. He had trouble with that because of his diabetes, he had to move on. He's trying to be a police officer again another part of the country. While he was there, nobody decided to do train his own diabetes alert dog. And more. I mean as if you'd need more, but there is more. A chock full episode. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you'll hear on the Juicebox Podcast should ever ever, ever be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before being bold with insulin. And Happy Thanksgiving.

Ryan 2:59
My name is Ryan. I've been type one diabetic for about 16 years. And I always wanted to train my service dog. So I did a couple of classes and I read a book. And I got after it. That's crazy.

Scott Benner 3:13
So how old are you now?

Ryan 3:16
3116 Oh

Scott Benner 3:18
geez. This is like one of those like, even things let's do 1515 years about right look at me.

Your story is interesting. I think in the dog is a really interesting and I definitely want to get to it but there's you have a bigger picture so so diagnosed around. Alright, diagnosed around 15 years old. Was there any diabetes in your family or anything? Any autoimmune that makes this like not that surprising? Or were you guys surprised?

Ryan 3:51
absolutely shocked. no family history at all.

Scott Benner 3:55
Okay. Pretty standard presentation. You're paying a lot. Your parents are like, Hey, what's wrong and we went to the hospital or was it? Do you have a crazy story?

Ryan 4:06
Exactly. Nope. You nailed it.

Scott Benner 4:08
The easy one. Yeah. Ryan, you're paying a lot. Let's go to the doctor.

Ryan 4:16
And he smell really bad to

Unknown Speaker 4:19
what a bonus.

Unknown Speaker 4:21
Where were you live? Like,

Scott Benner 4:22
what part of the country were you living in when you were when you were diagnosed?

Ryan 4:27
I was in Northern California. Okay.

Scott Benner 4:30
So you became you go to college?

Ryan 4:33
Yes, sir.

Scott Benner 4:34
Okay, and so after college, you became a police officer?

Unknown Speaker 4:37
Yes, sir. Okay. All right. And

Scott Benner 4:39
was that like, kind of like a lifelong goal? Was that something you always thought about doing or did you fall into it?

Ryan 4:45
No, you know, at 18 years old, I thought, I didn't want that job. And then as I got a little older, I had some friends that were cops talked me into going for it and I actually went back to school and that's what I ended up doing. Going back to school to do and I got in a little bit later, but I was in my later 20s.

Scott Benner 5:04
Okay, and so you became a police officer with diet and there was no problem having diabetes becoming a police officer. I know some people talk about that sometime they always say there's some things you can't do. But I know there's a state trooper local to me that has type one and and so that was never an issue like guns. Did you go the academy? Or did you take classes specific to being a police officer in college?

Ryan 5:26
I did take specific academic courses related to police work. And then you I've had to go through their academy just further requirements. And you also have to do it to be licensed or to be valid through the state. Right, right.

Scott Benner 5:42
So how long are you still a police officer now?

Ryan 5:47
Currently, I work in the private sector. I'm waiting for some paperwork to go through. And I'll probably be working out here in Tennessee fairly soon.

Scott Benner 5:55
Okay, so but so that's what we're getting to really as you move from California to Tennessee, was the move anything to do with the trouble you had at work?

Ryan 6:05
Ah, a little bit. You know, the agency I work for, I guess it should have been a red flag when they said, the doctor called me and said, Hey, I want to hold you back three months when I was going through medical review. And it's required that every goes for medical review, and I totally get it. You know, we want people that have good agencies. And obviously, you don't want somebody passing out on a call for service when there's a dangerous person. And they said, Well, we want to hold you back for three months and monitor your glucose levels. And I you know, I told him, I said, Look, you know, my onesies are good. I don't have the perfect number every day every time like most type ones, but I haven't had any issues. And they were like, Whoa, you know, it was like, what are your episodes you talk about? You go to the endocrinologist? Maybe you feel like the endocrinologist is like, the humor blog. Is that for type twos? Is that oral?

Scott Benner 7:01
You're like I'm talking to somebody doesn't know what they're talking. And so they So basically, they wanted to get a baseline for you to figure out what you were doing. They wanted to track your blood sugar's but he didn't want you to walk into a room, pull out a gun, yell, freeze, and then fall over. And that's what they were. That's what they were worried about. Like, Hey, I'm dizzy. Would you hold this gun for a second while I pull out a glucose? Right? Can we ask pause this crime for a second?

Ryan 7:23
Yeah, can you do me a big favorite? Don't run my blood sugar. panelo If you could just listen to me, that'd be great. It's one of those days, man.

Scott Benner 7:30
It'd be wonderful though, if that turned out to be if there was just like, Ah, this poor guy. Yeah, let me just get the handcuffs on.

Ryan 7:36
Yeah. In the back of the car for you. But

Scott Benner 7:40
so Okay, so there's an understandable like, you know, there's like, maybe they don't have a ton of, you know, experience with type one or maybe they do and this is just how they do it. But they put you through this review. Did you make it out of the review at some point or how did that go?

Ryan 7:54
I did. The doctor called me back and he was like, Wow, I've never seen anybody with such great numbers. And I'm like, come on. I I'm not the perfect diabetic but I have good a one sees you know, between a six five give or take, you know, um, your average daily injection. You know, it was like, it's like, oh, no, you're fine. We're not gonna hold you back for three months we'll skip you through

Scott Benner 8:19
Okay, and so you so how long would you be on police officer it's a it's something you work towards all going really well. And then it doesn't go well how long until it doesn't go well.

Unknown Speaker 8:30
I want people to know that diabetes doesn't define you. I want people to be inspired. And if they even have type one that they're not alone and that we can do anything we put our hearts to

Scott Benner 8:48
dancing for diabetes wants you to know that you're not alone. If you're looking for inspiration, could it dancing for diabetes.com

Ryan 8:58
I felt a little uncomfortable in the first first day of the academy that the guy he came up who had us do the physical portion of it and he was like you know the guy who trains us in our defensive tactics and they run and have a few push ups all kinds of fun stuff.

Scott Benner 9:15
Make sure you can catch the guy who runs away although Ryan if you just drive after him with your car and just kind of give him a drink with the door I think that works in the movies that probably works in real life too so but but so you're going through your physical fitness right on the first day you don't you're not this guy's picture of what physical fitness is. Is that about what happened?

Ryan 9:35
No, I was actually runner up for like the athletic award but he was like you know I want you to keep your glucometer up here in the front of the class so I know where it is at all times. And I said you know sir, I I really appreciate your concern but I really prefer to keep it on me in on my at all times. And I have my glucose levels and if you ever need it if I'm ever in capacity, which knock on wood has never happened in my right pocket and that that just didn't build Well,

Scott Benner 10:00
so that's interesting. So you're, you're a standout in the class, you know, athletically. And and yet he, he needed that meter with him for whatever reason in his mind. And so did you keep the meter with him? Do you think that was the first time you were like, Where did he win? Where did that meter end up standing up in front of the class? You made it through the class, okay? Or did you not even get through the class because of this person?

Ryan 10:25
No, I was doing okay. In the class. You know, it was just I just told them, you know, look at Tom's I just gotta do my thing will take me 10 seconds or less. And he had gone through a very traumatic incident off duty. And he had, he came back to the Academy, he was gone for a couple of weeks for everything had to get cleared administratively. And I went to I started checking my blood sugar. Right, when when we were done with the physical portion, I would check because I noticed I'm starting to have a pattern of blows on the schedule, and just learning the routine of the Academy. And long story short, he yelled at me for checking my blood sugar in front the whole class, so it just wasn't. I thought it was rather frivolous.

Scott Benner 11:07
Yeah. And so does that. Is it something? How did you handle that? I guess it's my question next, when that happens, where do you go from there?

Ryan 11:15
I was really upset. And I was ready to take off my belt and yell at them and say, Hey, this is how you want to do it. I was I was really upset. I mean, I walked off and, and he walked over and later apologized. And he actually, after that, he was actually a great guy. He, you know, later on, he just said, Well, you know, I'm sorry, I thought I was looking out for your best interest. And that that wasn't the worst part. It was more actually, after I graduated, he go through what's called a field training officer, you have basically it would be like, you're the senior guy running the podcast. So you tell me all your tricks and how you do it. And and this is what you got to do your paperwork, this, this, this and they evaluate you. And this guy, you know, he he wrote me up for checking my blood sugar in the car, and he actually talking about it. And I like looking at the administration, like, isn't this liability on your part?

Scott Benner 12:09
Should he not be admitting to us?

Ryan 12:12
Yeah, and then, and then one night, I went to check my blood sugar in the report writing room, which is a sterile environment. I mean, it's safe. It's inside the station, right? And I'll just type it up my report. So I stopped real quick. And there's hand sanitizer there. And I poke my finger real quick. And it just goes, you know, can you not do that here. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, if I, if I go into that wall, as I walk into the bathroom, you're going to be out of a job. And, you know, I don't want to mask the law enforcement community they've got, they've got a hard job. But

Scott Benner 12:43
did you think it was a personal thing for him? Like, do you think the blood threw him off? Or do you think like, was he making a business decision when he said, I don't want to check in your blood sugar here? Do you think it just made him uncomfortable? Could you did you get a feeling?

Ryan 12:55
I I don't know. I mean, he wanted to scream and yell that everything.

Scott Benner 13:03
This guy was looking to yell, and there you are with your blood sugar. And he and you are an easy target. What was he yelling at other people as well? Just over different things?

Ryan 13:12
Yeah, I mean, he, it was an interesting person. So

Scott Benner 13:16
okay, so so so you're but you're working? I mean, you're on the street, right? And but you get written up for checking your blood sugar, which is crazy. And is there a point then when you think like, maybe I have, like a union representative here? Or like, I don't see I? Because I think I don't think there's a wrong answer to how you handle things. I just think it's in a real world situation. It's interesting. It's like, when do I rock this boat? Like, do I just sit back and let this guy have his way and try to keep the peace on my end? Or because you know what I mean, because once you once you push back in a real way, you're involved in a different situation, then it's not your fault when that happens, but it still needs to be considered when you make the decision.

Ryan 13:57
That's how it works. You're correct. They have a very strong union there. And I wasn't off probation. I was still in training, once you're out of the academy and the union, basically what that informally translates to that, unless something really, really big happens, they don't really care. I told the supervisor, and then I told another supervisor, and they just looked at me and kind of brushed it off. They didn't really acknowledge it, they didn't document it. So I I resigned as a result of it. I just said, you know, this job is not worth my life. It's not worth my kidneys. It's not worth my neuropathy. Or you know, I don't want to develop

Scott Benner 14:33
Yeah, you think we were you actually said the pressure it stopped you from testing when you wanted to and you realized it was gonna that was what it was going to be and you didn't want to be involved. Now that did that sucks because that's a lot of effort. Right? Like you went to school. You put in that effort. You went to the Academy, you put in that effort, like how much time did you have into getting to that spot? Do

Ryan 14:53
you think? Oh, yours? Yeah.

Scott Benner 14:58
I don't know what to say other than that. It really sucks I'm sorry. But now you think you're you're back at it. You think you're in a new you're in a new place in the in the in the country and you're you're looking for a job in law enforcement again, you think you're close to one?

Ryan 15:11
Yeah, yo, it was really interesting. I can't say too much because I'm here in Nashville, Tennessee, and what am I sure fate would have it? What am I good friends I end up meeting out here is actually works for Nashville Metro completely unrelated, just coincidental. And, you know, he kind of talked me into applying, I told him very openly about my experience. And he was like, Well, here's the thing in Tennessee, if you do that, here, you're going to get fired. Because if that would have happened to you here, that person would have been fired both of them. And if you would have gone and formally told the supervisor, and I openly talked about backgrounds, because before you get into any capacity of law enforcement, they do a very thorough background check. I mean, they come to your house, and they have a 50 page packet. And they openly, I openly wrote about my experience, and I felt like if it was going to negatively reflect me, then I don't want to be here. You know, like, I'm more than happy to be here. I want to work just as hard as athletically. I mean, I'm not a gazelle. I'm not gonna make the Olympics anytime soon. But I was, I was runner up for some of it. I just, I'm not a fast runner. That's worked against me. But everything else I was pretty good at. And I ultimately talked about it. And I was like, Look, I was a great wrestler in high school, I was looking at code for sight. I still do a lot of martial arts. It doesn't restrict me athletically, it doesn't restrict my strength. It's been Olympians, as you've interviewed. And they, they didn't care. They were like, Okay, well, we think you'll have a different experience here.

Scott Benner 16:43
Excellent. Oh, that's great. And I agree with what you said, too, because I often think that like, if you just, you have to put it out there however it is. Because if someone doesn't like it, like you said, I'm used the words I would have used like, I don't want to if you don't like this, I don't want to be here. You know, like, it's why would I go through this again? And you know, torture myself again? Let's find out on day one, if you're the kind of person who's not going to want me around, and let me get out of this, you know, before I even get in and waste all that time. I think that's really smart. I really do. And look how well it worked out for you. You found people who said Now don't worry about that. You're good. That's that's really actually you're in the process. Now there. Yes, sir. Yeah. Good for you. That's so how long is the distance in between time? So how long ago? Did you leave the other department?

Ryan 17:28
About two and a half years ago?

Scott Benner 17:31
Okay. And so did you consider not doing it in between that? And like, was it something you kind of gave up on until you met this person to talk to you into turn?

Ryan 17:39
Yeah, you're pretty much right on that.

Scott Benner 17:43
Well, it's a shame. I mean, it's it's, it's it sucks that you know, it sounds like you were you would have been one of the you know, one of the leaders in that situation and then be this guy sees your blood sugar meter and that it just sucks. You know, like it really it really does. I'm so happy that you feel like you've found a place that's not going to be like that did that experience at that first apartment did that change anything about how you felt about your diabetes or how you treated it and like the you find yourself being less public about it or anything like that. Let me read you an email I just received. Hi, Scott, thank you for your podcasts for helping us to be bold with insulin. Our daughter was diagnosed in January of 2014 when she was four years old. And we've been taking pretty good care of her with a one sees that of range between the mid sixes and the mid sevens. Yesterday at her quarterly endo visit, we got an A one C of 5.5. We credit a lot of that to your podcast, but also to Dexcom. And on the pod. Your podcast gave us the confidence to use these tools the way they were meant to be used. Now when I get this email, I am incredibly inspired to think that people are out there using the Omni pod the way it's supposed to be used. Temp Basal extended bonuses, no tubing, not tethered anything feeling the freedom, living life. And getting results like the ones you heard about here in this email is so easy to try it for yourself. Because Omnipod offers a free, no obligation demo, all you have to do is go to my omnipod.com forward slash juice box or click on the links in the show notes or Juicebox podcast.com. Fill in the tiniest bit of information about yourself. It is really just your name and your address. And on the pod will send directly to your door. A pump, you take the pot and you place it on your body and you wear it for days. So that you can see just how wonderful it is. Once you've decided it is wonderful to just keep going with the process. And the next thing you know, you're writing me an email about your a one C and how it's 5.5. Of course your results may vary but the demo is 100% free and there's no obligation so give it a try that experience If that first apartment, did that change anything about how you felt about your diabetes? Or how you treated it and like the Jew, find yourself being less public about it or anything like that?

Ryan 20:09
No, I just kind of figured, you know, that guy's gonna end up getting what he deserves. When he asked to go to a court of law, he's gonna have to answer to something. Because those people never last throughout the law enforcement community. You know, I mean, you might get away with it once or twice, but eventually, you're going to start stacking up complaints. And the laundry list is going to build and you're going to get reviewed one day, something's going to come up, and they're going to look at Oh, wow, hey, Scott has about five complaints. And Ryan over here has about 35. And they've been working in the same district, same time. Maybe we need to look at Ryan. But

Scott Benner 20:47
it also didn't change you personally. Like really, you didn't find yourself being more private about it or anything like that?

Ryan 20:53
No, why do you go get a service dog. I mean, I graduate canine I ended up in this job I'm working now I'm basically working in Tennessee, they have a very big, it's not security, you're actually considered private duty law enforcement, but they have a very big industry out here for it. And I ended up getting by sheer coincidence paired up with some hands and some retired canine handlers that I could kind of pick their brains about, you know, guys that were trying to scent detection for, for all kinds of stuff, you know, drug bombs. And it's the same theory, you know, essentially, our blood sugar goes to the second it goes higher low, there's a sense that you're just applying that training in a different context.

Scott Benner 21:36
And so so you see, you think to yourself, again, because you said your injections, right, you still you still do injections. And do you have a glucose monitor?

Ryan 21:44
a yes or no CGM and daily injections.

Scott Benner 21:47
Okay, so you're, you're, you're pretty old school. And, but but you, you decide you want to try to get a service dog, you found out they were incredibly expensive, I guess.

Ryan 21:58
20 to 40,000.

Scott Benner 22:00
That seems like overcharging. If it costs more than your car, you're in trouble. I think. I don't care what it does. By the way.

Unknown Speaker 22:09
a college education

Scott Benner 22:11
found me a flying dog. I wouldn't pay 40,000 dogs, because dogs just gonna fly away anyway. So. But so Okay, so you look into it really expensive. And there are this is very important for people. No, there are plenty of people who will try to take advantage of you and overcharge you for a service dog. If you do the process of picking the a reputable place is is very, very important. Or you could end up with you know, you your blood sugar goes low the dog pees on the carpet and and you're out 40 grand. And you know, it's but you figured out how to train it yourself. So this is this is incredible. So, so first of all, what made you think you could do it? What was it having the conversations with the guys you were paired with? Who had done in the past?

Ryan 22:58
Yeah, you know, so, a while back when I was actually working in law enforcement, I had a dog for a car. And I hear this, you know, the suspects in the back of our my car, meaning you know, the cars clear. And the dog I hear my hand like, No, no, no. And I hear that dog's paws kind of like, you know, like, like, if it was scratch, we got a door, the dog with the steering wheel. And I worked with another canine handler that was leaving the department and he gave up his dog he surrendered his dog and I'm like, and that's your dog like they make movies about this. You'll give up your dog.

Unknown Speaker 23:36
That's like a

Scott Benner 23:38
that's like a Disney movie moves to a farm with that dog I think and

Ryan 23:44
yeah, we can write a story yourself that we could we could really make this big. And I anyways, I ended up getting paired up with the guy at a job site and we had some time to kill and we were waiting. We were just talking and and he goes yeah, I'm a retired canine handler out of Indiana. I moved here you know after I retired blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said Oh, really? I said hey, you know i ironically enough, I didn't even pick them out. It was my significant other Gina. She was like, oh, when we moved to Tennessee, it's very pet friendly. And I said, You know, I want to rescue a dog from the pound. And that's where I found Baylor. And Baylor was about six years old. We adopted him and he was a mess and he had been returned to the pound. I didn't know too much of the circumstances. They later on told me once I brought him in with a service vest and showed him all the videos, everything I did. And the lady told me because I promised her she cried when I adopted them and I promised her I would take them back there. And I would take great care of them. And she she told me a little bit about his background. They just said he wasn't a good dog. He was surrendered with his brother and they said he was really destructive. And one of the things people don't understand about working dogs is you have to have a dog that has prey drive or high energy because if they are not, they're not going to work.

Scott Benner 25:04
My dogs are laying around right now in two different piles. So I don't think I could get them to do anything to be perfectly honest, coming. If I don't want to say that loud because it'll end up with me, but I don't even know that walking across the room would motivate them. If there's food over here, and they'd be like, it'll be there later, won't it? So but so what kind of dog is a is is beller.

Ryan 25:26
He is a lab. And I think he's a pit mix because he's got a big broad chest, but he's got the stocky legs and the long lab nose and body. So you didn't just adopt a dog you adopted a hard lock dog

Scott Benner 25:39
like this dog had been given away by somebody picked up by somebody else in that person to come back and be like, Hey, I chose the wrong dog. Please take this one back again. And so he was kind of a two time loser by the time you got him. And and you really changed his life and yours I imagine. So what's the first step is the first step just getting him to be like a better pet like a more compliant animal? I guess is the beginning part of it. You can't you'll do you just dive right in with the blood sugar stuff.

Ryan 26:07
No. So that what the canine handler suggested I did because I'd taken a class for a diabetic alert service dog. And this class was actually intended for people that were interested in this charity, but we were moving from California. So we weren't going to be eligible, which I found out, of course, at the end of the class. And I'd read a book and I found online some more information on how to make samples and everything. And this guy's goes, Hey, so this is what he was the retired canine handler at Indiana that I got paired up with and I told him all about them because to start breaking them in off leash I go the dogs mess. I can't even walk them. I remember one night, I was walking and he's pulling, pulling, pulling and somehow he ended up into a car. I'm like, ah, Baylor you were wearing me out, but I mean, he was like a parked car. Who does that?

Scott Benner 26:58
Yeah. Was there ever a moment that beginning where you thought this is why this dog has been returned to them?

Ryan 27:05
You know, I guess you're gonna try him. That's what she said to me. She goes, she's Are you sure? And I said, Hey, you know, the dogs aren't perfect. I've seen them work in action. I've seen them do some amazing things and they're never gonna be so anyways, he he said, Hey, get a prawn collar and start breaking them. And he gave us some tips. He said, start breaking them in off the leash. And as soon as I started breaking them off the leash, took about three days. And he really started to excel. And then more obedience commands because you have to remember I had to think to myself like I've taken a 95 pound dog out in public. I have to be in control the stock or who knows. You know what can happen?

Scott Benner 27:47
You're well intentions turned into a lawsuit and the dogs hanging off someone's leg and you're like, yo, whose dog is that and you walk away? That's how I would handle it by the way. Oh my god, someone's dogs gone crazy. Call the goodbye.

Unknown Speaker 28:02
I don't know how that tag got on. That's not mine. So

Scott Benner 28:04
you don't call my house? No, but I mean, listen, it's very obviously very responsible and obvious. Like you can't you can't go out in the world. That's a big animal. And like you said, like if he if he decides to do something, you don't want him to do it, that's not a good situation. So you get him. Your his obedience training came along pretty quickly for you.

Ryan 28:22
Once I started breaking them in off leash it, it started to click, and I told them when I had intentions of doing, but I was struggling with it. And he goes, Well, this is gonna sound cheesy, but once you start to break them in, and you guys do more obedience training, you guys are gonna bond a lot more. And once you get them broken and more to the service, animal training, if it's a good fit, you guys will really take off. And one of the things I've noticed with all the handlers I've worked with, and the guys, you know, talking to them experience and watching the one to do work well in public, with their animals. regardless what it is, is the ones that do well have a good relationship. It's that simple. If

Scott Benner 29:02
that makes sense. It really does. Listen how much Let's beat let's so people don't get too excited. While they're listening be like I'm gonna do this too. I'm going to teach my, my laptop lot whatever those dogs are called to find out my blood sugar. So how much actual time and effort Do you think you put into like, if you had to break it down into months and hours? How much effort did it take to train Baylor to be a diabetes service dog for you?

Ryan 29:27
I would say approximately six to eight months, approximately and I was putting in I tried to keep the training sessions around 30 minutes, sometimes an hour. You know, it just kind of depended on his attention span or I try to break it down to where I'd be doing 25 minutes and then i'd i'd if he just wasn't wasn't having a good day, which is going to happen. Then I would stop and I would say all right, let's look Do this later. Yeah. I was. Kosh, I didn't think the hours but now.

Scott Benner 30:06
Yeah, it's a daily and it's not something you do on Monday and then forget about till next week like it's a it's a real constant. It's it's, you know, it's a real constant responsibility, I guess once you decide to do it. So what happened? So, are you just still amazed? Like, I would still look down once a while and be like, Oh my god, I trade this dog to do this thing that I would be amazed by that personally, but like, how does it work for you in your day to day life? How does he help you?

Ryan 30:36
Well, I don't take him everywhere with me. But he helps me tremendously. You know, down the road, I would like to switch to Dexcom and CGM and all that Omni pod. But I mean, there's been times you know, when you're having those bad days, and you're chasing that high, and then you're chasing that low. And what I didn't know at the time, and I thought he wasn't performing correctly. At first, I wanted him to notify me I set my numbers at 80 and 180. But what I didn't realize is that they can read ahead of our glucometers and our CGM. And so example, you check Arden's blood sugar, and let's say you didn't have the dexcom, the great technology that they they produce, let's say, and you check it, and she's at 85, you're like, oh, you're going to bed your blood sugar is at 85. This is perfect. And she's like, but that I feel kind of funny. And I feel like I'm going Oh, no, no, no, no, just ignore it, you're fine. And sure enough, 20 minutes later, she's at 40. And they can detect that. When I've had the this doesn't happen all the time. This has happened a couple of times off top my head. But Baylor has caught me when I've been at 120. And then I didn't believe it. At first I thought he wasn't working. And then I checked my blood sugar 20 minutes later, and I'd be down, going 85. And I'm like, yep, you're going low. Your blood sugar's rapidly dropping, you know, or couldn't believe it.

Scott Benner 32:03
He has a predictive low alerts, which is something they just added to the new Dexcom g sex.

Unknown Speaker 32:09
Oh, wow.

Scott Benner 32:10
Yeah. When it tells you like 10 minutes before, you're going to get low that you're going to get low. But that's amazing that Baylor does it. So that's a it's fascinating, actually, what do you think he senses? Is he actually because your blood sugar is legitimately 120? And you know, in that moment, let's say I guess there's there's something about your physiology that gives off that it's happening, but hasn't happened yet? Or is that is that?

Ryan 32:36
Is it a sense? So yeah, all I know is in the class, what they told us was the second your blood sugar goes low, or the second your blood sugar goes high, you instantly produce some sort of scent, and our range of smell, cannot smell that the dogs can smell approximately, I can't remember the one guy heard the seals. He was he was he worked with dogs in the seal program. And I can remember he said 30 times better 300 times better, but the point is way better than us their range of smell. So it has something to do with that. I don't know all the science. I just know how to make the samples. And that's that's what I'm looking for.

Scott Benner 33:20
It's amazing. And so how do you do that? How do you make the samples like to train him with? Okay, I don't know if I can do this in two minutes. But the other day, and you can see this as a blog post on my website. I'll put a link to that. But the other day Arden and I went to lunch for art and had chicken and waffles. So using the data that we get back from Arden's Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor we were able to go into I'm going to look here, I want to make sure I get this right. We were able to go into the restaurant with a blood sugar around 120 and 1234 hours later, Arden's blood sugar was still right at 120. She had waffles, it was a weird meal, waffles, potato chips with cheese, real syrup. And we never ever once counted a carb. How do I do that? Super simple Pre-Bolus. Watch the Dexcom for responses stayed fluid gave more insulin when needed. It's all spelled out in the blog post. It's really easy to understand there that's at ardens de.com. It's actually you know, ardens.com forward slash blog forward slash waffle, but I'll put links in the show notes here. That's not the point though. The point is, if I tried to Bolus for a waffle with real syrup, after an appetizer of potato chips with cheese, I gotta tell you, I would have botched that without Dexcom. I totally would have watched it without on the pod because we did Bolus and Temp Basal and things like that. But this ad is about Dexcom go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box. To learn more, or go check out the blog post and scroll to the bottom, you can click on a link for Dexcom there. If you go to that blog post and see Arden's graph from those waffles and don't think I want one of those, I'd be really surprised.

Ryan 35:11
So you need to have a clear mouth. And when I say clear mouth, I mean, you can't have soda coffee on your bras, obviously, no alcohol for about 30 minutes beforehand, and you pick your numbers. So mine was 80 and 180. And then when you make that you buy sterile gauze pads, and you place them in your mouth, they'll come in your saliva, and you'll probably have to drink some water because you'll be like, cotton mouth dies. And you throw them in the freezer. And then I've purchased sterile six ounce bottles similar to like a small travel carry on like for the airport size shampoo bottles, but they were sterile. And I made three samples, meaning I made a Hi, hello. And I made a fake one. Because when I was training him, I didn't want him to just pay me for treats. So that's, that's how I did that. That's crazy.

Scott Benner 36:06
And so you make these ahead of time. And then how do you sue you just I so what's next I take the sample and what do I do with it to train him?

Ryan 36:17
So I just went with high and my theory was I don't know if this is accurate. And I'm sure there are better people in the world that know I have more information on this. And a lot of first responders I talked to paramedics and cops and aunties and say when a blood sugar goes high, when they have a diabetic they can always smell it on them, which is not always true. I've never been able to smell it but other people have. So I figured obviously if we can smell it, the dog can smell it plus some it'll be so i when i first

Scott Benner 36:45
okay. And so you just wouldn't you just like give him the sample. And I don't know like like, what's next? Like, like I get if you wanted to sit down and you get him to sit, you go, Okay, you've sat, that's great. Here's a treat. Boom, but you want him to bark or come for you or something when he smells the smell? Is

Ryan 37:04
that the idea? So I trained him to pommy and the theory was that way if I'm in public, he's not distracting or if I read to take them into a business like setting or a play or I don't know the movie knows.

Scott Benner 37:17
Yeah. And so so she you're in bed tonight, and your blood sugar goes over one at the dog wakes you up.

Ryan 37:25
That is the one thing I could never get him to do. He there's been a couple of times he's barked at me in the middle of the night. It's very rare. Okay, but they do tell you that with concealing yourself in your covers. And also, he's always been a heavy sleeper. I mean, if someone breaks into this house, I wouldn't be surprised. We just sleeps it off. And that's just always how he's been. And I adopted him. It's six. He's now I think he's Seven, eight, I don't know right around there. But he's always been a sound sleeper. And he's a little bit older dog What? Looking back on it, I would have actually woken up in the middle of the night and woke him up. And once I got up dialed in with the training with the piping and the sign the samples, I would have actually done that.

Scott Benner 38:07
Yeah, I say Well, listen. I mean, it's, there's a lot to think about, I guess. And so when you're low, do you know you're low? Like what number do you feel your lows at?

Ryan 38:18
Most the time? You know, everyone smile, catch them real early. I know. I'm starting to feel a little funny. Like this morning. I work nights last night. So I woke up right before talking to you. And I kind of felt a little funny. Baylor's got to go the bathroom. So he's distracted by that goes, the bathroom comes in the house pause me and I'm kind of thinking to myself, I better go check. And I check in on my 85 that's like, Okay, I know, based on my training based on my experience, you know, it's like you it's hard and you're like up, our blood sugar always likes to drop at this time, right? And now I just kind of have a poor man's Dexcom.

Scott Benner 38:57
it's it's a it's fun, how you how you learn, though, like really like it after having experiences over and over again, you really do get to that. I always think of it this way. You know, I see people talk about you know, Dexcom has a warmup period, right? You put it on, you wait two hours before you can start using it. And I always hear people like, Oh, this is the worst these two hours. I don't feel that way anymore. Because I have a reasonable expectation that I understand what's going on. And with a couple of finger sticks. I can I can still actually maintain the same. You know, sort of like the same basic rhythm that I had with a CGM. I can have without not you know, could I do it all day like that I could, but then I'd be testing again, like a lunatic and thinking about it all the time. But I do think you learn from your experiences. And I think that I think that makes total sense. So you're falling, you feel it, but if you don't feel it, he comes and he has she ever come to you and you've been so low that you kind of can't care that he's with you and pawing at you or does it does Yeah.

Ryan 39:56
That's interesting. So one time right after a We we just bought a house and we were in the process of moving and it was the first time we bought a house, you know, and I and you know, you know, stressful it is, you know, underwriting insurance, all that fun adult stuff. Not.

Scott Benner 40:13
Hey, listen, I just got my taxes today I know what I owe, so I'm not doing great with being an adult today either.

Ryan 40:23
And, anyways, Geno's working nights at the time. And there's nobody else home and I got off the couch. And I felt a little funny. And I didn't think much of it because I was focused on unpacking, and I got to work tomorrow, all these things. And as I walk away, Baylor pause me in the back of my calf. And I thought, honestly, he kind of fell or it was a fluke, or I didn't want to believe them, because I was trying to get my other stuff I need to get done. And then I walked into the kitchen, he follows me into the kitchen. And he starts staring at me first making eye contact. And then he kind of starts walking towards me. And then he doesn't quarter me like when I say that people think he's growing and he's trying to know, he then gets a little bit more aggressive and comes up and starts cutting me off. And then he paused me again when I stopped. And that's why I said, Okay, you need to check her blood sugar, because he's getting awfully aggressive about it, meaning he's not, he's not getting aggressive in the sense that he's not growing. He's not darling. He's making eye contact with me. He's giving me all these signs, right. And sure enough, I'm glad he was there. Because I was, I think I was at 40 year are not a good number of 40 or 60.

Scott Benner 41:33
Right? And it's so the lower you got the more aggressively he he's trying to get your attention. It's so it's like cutting you off like you're trying to walk? And he's like, No, you can't walk away. We haven't done the thing with a blood sugar yet. So when does he start? So your blood sugar's low? When you test? Does? Does he? I don't know. What's the next like? Does he see you test them? leave you alone after that? Or does he kind of stay with you and keep reminding you about the low blood sugar until it's back up again?

Ryan 42:00
No, typically, he'll leave me alone. And the one thing I've noticed about dogs, especially working with them, and I trained a couple dogs after this not for for diabetic alert, but they're very receptive to our patterns. So you grab your keys, this AWS thinks, oh, they're gonna take me out, they're leaving, maybe I can count them and to get me a no walk. You grab their leash, they know they're going to go somewhere. And I've noticed that with Baylor that after he sees me grab my black glucometer pouch. He seems to leave me alone holes sometimes still come up and pop me a little bit. But for the most

Scott Benner 42:35
part expects that's what he's trying to accomplish to get you to pick up that pouch.

Ryan 42:39
Yeah. And I didn't teach him that. That was just kind of what came with the territory. Once we started working together more. It's interesting.

Scott Benner 42:47
After all, the work and everything and you have Is it a benefit? Is he a real benefit in your life? Or have you ever looked back and thought, Wow, that was more work than it's been worth? Or I you know, I'm interested to know like, how valuable Do you find having a dog?

Ryan 43:02
Yeah, My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

Scott Benner 43:07
It's a big so it's a big even that can you imagine a day where you have a glucose monitor and you think I don't need the dog anymore? Or do you have or do you think you don't have a glucose monitor because you have the dog?

Ryan 43:18
I don't have a glucose monitor because I like to do a lot of the mix Martin a lot of the martial arts so Jiu Jitsu, and I've worried it will get torn off during like live sparring and stuff like that. And I'm also going to wait to see my insurance where that goes. But I have heard that when people switch to things like what you're talking about CGM index coms, that people that have had dogs in the past and have that they stopped going alone, they stopped going high and the dog stops working.

Scott Benner 43:50
Oh, the Dexcom breaks the dog. That's interesting. Like because it takes away because once you so now it's in that's an interesting idea. So once you don't have the highs and lows and the variability anymore, because the technology helps you get past that. Then the dogs like forgets all about it, because it's not happening as much. That's interesting.

Ryan 44:08
Well, they say that, but I worked with a guy too, that said he had to get a sock recertified. It was a drug dog. And he was like, Hey, you know, I hadn't had a bus. I'll keep it PG because I know his family. I haven't had a bust of this type of stuff in a long time. And I'm really nervous about my dog getting certification certified because they have to get certified for a certain accuracy. Okay. And sure enough, the dog walks in the room and nailed it right away. Okay. I don't know what they say. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:39
it's still it's still an interesting concept that the idea that you could kind of you know, if you don't use it, you lose it kind of concept with anything really. I guess you don't you know, if you don't do it enough, it goes away a little bit.

Unknown Speaker 44:50
My name is Elizabeth, and at 10 years old, I was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. Shortly after inspired by my middle school dance class. I came up with the idea to host a show to raise funds and spread awareness about diabetes and dancing for diabetes started and has grown ever since.

Scott Benner 45:11
You are only about 10 minutes away from hearing that entire recording. I'm telling you it is spectacular. Dancing for diabetes, calm dancing, the number for diabetes.com

Ryan 45:22
you're married or you're you guys are just together you're married. We're trying to get together that we're gonna wait probably tell after a while after I get through all this fun Academy stuff and the schedule pulls down and I can get time off

Scott Benner 45:38
but you own a house you live together you live together for a while I was wondering like how involved is issue with your with your care? Like, is that something you share with another adult? Or is it something keep yourself? No, Gina

Ryan 45:51
would definitely tell me at times if he she sees something like hey, I think you need to go check. But other than that, I mean, I try to do everything myself and it was Baylor I specifically wanted to train Baylor because who they dog typically trains with is who they're gonna bond with. So I told her I was like, No, no, no, no, I don't want to do anything. I mean, she'll take them for walks here and there, it will take them out to go to the bathroom. But beyond that, I mean, I was the one who really wanted them. So yeah,

Scott Benner 46:18
I was just trying to decide how my wife would feel if we had to take my daughter's insulin pump for a walk if he sort of like your diabetes tack, right? Like I like what would I do if I had to, like clean up and feed it like this? Does having a service dog preclude him from being a pet? Or do you if you get both of those worlds?

Ryan 46:42
You do get both those worlds? Um, you know, so so here's the thing with burning dog behavior. When dogs aren't working, they're at home. And that's when they get to be a dog. That's when they get to. He's he's actually good friends with their cat, Rainey. And they're their buds. They play tag outside. And at certain times. Yeah, he's an absolute pet. I mean, he's, if he jumps on the bed, and he's laying there, and you're watching TV. Yeah, he's a pad. He's laying next to your petting home. He's happy. But the thing is, when he's laying on that bed next to you, the chances of that dog working is minimal to none, because they work for your affection and your attention.

Scott Benner 47:24
Oh, I see. So if he feels connected to you at the moment, he might be less apt to to do the work that you've trained him to, though?

Unknown Speaker 47:31
Correct? As about,

Unknown Speaker 47:33
okay. Yeah, and

Ryan 47:35
one of the first things that organization does is like, let's say you and Arden want a dog, you guys go through the paperwork. You guys are okay, you're selected. They take you out to the beach with a lot of dogs and they see which one you bond with. And it works the same way in police. Military, typically, they don't just take a dog and say, Hey, this dog shores god, this is gonna be your dog. They pair it up with your personality, what they think and how you communicate and how this dog is and their their profile, what they think is going to be a best fit.

Scott Benner 48:06
I say, I say, Well, that makes sense. I mean, it's like a dating situation. You can't just go he had just point from across the room be like you you'll work because it doesn't work that way. You gotta find you gotta find a bond, you gotta find common ground, you know, something to start with. Right? Some some something to something to build on. Not just, you look good demeanor. I like what color that dog is. I guess I'm wondering about like, with just managing with shots and everything. Because essentially, because you talk about, would you like a pump and you would like, you know, maybe a glucose monitor and a pump, but at the same time, you don't have them. You do have some lows. So what do you think, is the biggest? I don't know, what's the biggest impediment when you're doing injections? Like what do you find to be the thing you wish you could make? Go away?

Ryan 48:58
Oh, last, you know, versus in a pub. As you know, you can adjust your needs, and everybody's needs are going to be different. So that's, that's a great thing versus lantis. You know, you're either slave to if it's like you have seasonal allergies, and it shoots sky high on you. You're kind of stuck with that, that goes versus if you're going low all the time, then you're slave to eating every two hours or every 45 minutes or who knows, you know?

Scott Benner 49:26
Yeah. And so so you think the basal insulin is the is the thing you would like to have more control over the most. So what is what's the thing about injections that you like the most? Like what do you think you'd miss if you went to a pump?

Ryan 49:40
I would just be worried about it getting ripped off and either the line of duty or during grappling practice. I did have about 10 years ago, I had a mini med pump. Okay, and I was so lean. The problem was I had to do the the child inserts and they were amazing. They were the ones. And if I didn't use those, they would kink. And then of course, when I went to practice those hurt really bad, especially in any sort of aggressive sparring, it was really difficult.

Scott Benner 50:14
Why would say that things have changed pretty significantly since then I get your concern, I really do, I think that you would easily be able to, I mean, if you chosen on the pocket, you mentioned it before, if you chose that, I think you'd easily be able to put it somewhere where that wouldn't be an issue. I know some kids that play like football with them. And they'll like, there's like this band, and it's called a band, but there's a rap you put around it on your arm, for instance, that keeps it from shaking and pulling off when you get tackled. When my daughter knows, she's gonna go play softball, sometime, she keeps it more on her stomach. So that it, you know, like, it's just, it's not a place where people grab it grab at you were touching or something like that. I think it would be something that you would find that you'd look back one day and think, oh, that wasn't really a big deal. And I and I only bring that up not to sell you in some pump. But because I think you fall into a really interesting category. You've had diabetes for 15 years. You had an experience a while ago with a technology. It's a lot different now. And and you're and you're it's working for you what you're doing is working for you. And you're comfortable. I just I always get concerned, I always try to stay cognizant of the idea of I don't want to look back one day and think, what did everybody move forward? And I didn't notice, like, do you know what I mean? Like it's washed, you still know what it's all about. But I saw it with a friend once who, you know, did his injections, injections injections. And then a couple years ago, finally even just got away from the old insulin, it was at novalogic couldn't figure it out that know what they were doing. It was a real like, you know, a real hardship for him. And but I think had he moved along, like, I would not switch for the sake of switching. Like if a new pump came out tomorrow, I wouldn't just be like, oh, give me that one. Cuz it's new. But I mean, you know, I think Omnipod and Dexcom know this very well about how I feel if somebody comes out with something, it's that much better than what they're doing, I would have to look at it. Because I would want to, I would want to stay current. And hopefully these companies that I like, so much stay current on their own and staying with them is staying current. But I I don't want to get into a situation where I'm like, I'm the old timey like diabetes person who's like, I have this and people are like, yeah, we don't do that anymore. So I just I wouldn't want you to get caught in that space. Like that mindset of like, this is good enough, because some of the new stuff is, is a lot better, in my opinion. You know?

Ryan 52:41
Yeah, I do you want to check it out? I'm gonna wait to see if I get hired on here. And then of course, that's one of the things I thought about becoming a police officers, you know, working for the government, you're not really good medical? Yeah. So that's what I think I'm gonna kind of wait and see what's up for the Academy, because your life changes a lot after that. But I'm going to try to go in and check that out. There's, ironically enough, I met a really nice young family and they had, I think he's about one or two. And he's just been newly diagnosed type one, not in the family at all. And they're going to go Omni pod dex calm, and I turned him on to your show, too. I said, Hey, thank you. Listen to the show. It's got a lot of great information. I mean, I don't even have an omni pod or and I've learned great stuff about it stuff. I didn't know. So.

Scott Benner 53:27
Well. That's excellent. Thank you, you know, you're pleased. You're it's very much My pleasure. So that's interesting. So even though you're not using the technology that we use the stuff we still talk about still valuable for you.

Ryan 53:39
Absolutely. I mean, I love learning about new technology. I just can't figure out Skype to save my life. But we got it. I went to five in the morning. All right. Can we give me some slack?

Scott Benner 53:49
I actually think you're doing great. I actually think you've got that good. Like I'm tired energy going right now, which is it's just you you're trying to stay awake. But but so do you have something something pops into your head, like something we talked about here that you were actually able to take into your own life? It's not technology related, like like, kind of maybe one of the tenants of the ideas that you use with just injections?

Ryan 54:11
Yeah, no, totally. You know, I don't know why I never put this together. So when I was on the insulin pump, they always talk about pre bazel or right Pre-Bolus Thank you. Yep. And I'm like, Oh, man. Oh, my blood sugar's high. Again. I took a bunch of insulin and then it never my numbers never come out right when I eat carbohydrates, then my blood sugar's high. Oh, yeah, maybe I should apply that technique to this tale.

Scott Benner 54:37
It's, it's hilarious because it's just, it's it doesn't have anything to do with a pump, like it's called Pre-Bolus thing, but you could pre inject just as much, you know, and in the end, it's just it's just that concept, right? Like if the insulin doesn't start working right away, you need to give it a chance to to sync up with the carbs are done. I just had a I would say a pretty serious conversation yesterday for the first time, like, I am very much just sort of like, she picks things up as we go as we go. And I don't sit down and, you know, I don't give her like, now here's your diabetes lesson. You know, I, we, I've never done that with her. But yesterday, it just became clear to me that I needed her to kind of move along with me a little bit. And so I sat her down, and I gave her a bigger overview than she had had in the past, I guess. So she's, you know, closer to 14 and 13. And she came down the other day. And I've been taking care of her blood sugar as, as I wouldn't, she came down for breakfast, she was hungry, she said to my wife, you know, I need to eat. And my wife hasn't had not been involved with the blood sugar at all. And my wife took the words I need to eat as I'm low. And my daughter just meant I'm really hungry. And so and so my wife, sort of like I shouldn't panic, but she very quickly made her food that was, you know, higher in carbs situation, and not anything different than what we normally would have eaten. But she didn't Pre-Bolus or because she thought she was low. And it just all kind of happened really quickly. And so, I came back into the room, and I was like, Hey, what's going on? She's like, she's gonna eat this. And I was like, okay, and I started to pick up the thing to give her insulin and the food was ready already. And then her blood sugar shot up, and we spent a couple of hours getting it back down again, it was not easy. You know, it was one of those crappy rollercoaster situations. And so later in the day, I sat with Arden and I said, Look, you have to understand that just because me, you know, you just because someone says it's okay, here's the food. You I said, you still know, right? And I was like, you know, and she's like, yeah, I said, you have to Pre-Bolus for that food. It's never gonna work out if you don't. And she's like, right. And I said, what you needed to stick up for yourself a little bit there, even though it's Mom, you had to you needed to tell her Hey, wait, I don't think I can just start eating this right now without this insulin. And, and I showed her some of the reasons why. And she was really receptive and an understanding of it. I didn't overwhelm her with it. I didn't scare with it. But I did. I gave her more information, more real information about diabetes than she had had in the past. And I'm glad I did, because I saw her handle it maturely. And, you know, it, it sunk in a little bit. So I think every once in a while I'm like, I might do that I might, you know, just let her have it. Slowly, slowly. But every once in a while when I see something like this, I think I might have to step in and do a, like a 15 minute like, you know, masterclass on it, like, just here, here's the important things you need to know. I think it's really cool that any of that's helping you or anybody else, but, um, but it's great that you can apply that stuff with injection. So

Ryan 57:49
Well, yeah. And I mean, I just how much you're helping how much this show is helping this family? I mean, I can't imagine having basically an infant, and not knowing anything about the disease, not having a background in it, you know, and they're, they're doing great. And it's, I don't know why we're stuck in the stagnate of, well, you got to be diabetic for a year to get a pump. I mean, that's the that's the dumbest thing ever. You know, there's, I want to see the support that says, you know, you shouldn't have a CGM, I think they should. If your insurance and you can afford it, I think it should be a policy, you've leave it to CGM. And if you choose not to use it, that's fine. But we're gonna write you the prescriptions. And we want you to know that this monitors it. And this this this? I don't, I don't know why. And that's what they're kind of. I they didn't allude to anything negative, but that's what they're dealing with right now. They're like, Oh, we're gonna like Why? Why are we paying on a daily injections? You know, this is an infant stage. You can't talk, huh? No, I

Scott Benner 58:43
listen. It's just an old time idea that people hang on to like, you have to have this for a year. And then you can have this in the end. It's a pump, it's a needle, why does it matter how the insulin gets into you? It really, really doesn't, by the way, what's the difference of how it happens? I like that, like, once you figure out how to drive it like this, then we'll give you breaks. Well, you know, one of the breaks would be nice to have on day one, if you don't mind. Right? It's so if I can, if I can throw this rock out the window on this chain and bring the car to a stop without hitting anything, then you're really going to appreciate how great I understand how this car works. And I just, it's a simple idea. It's 2018 this stuff exists. If your insurance covers it, and like you said, If you want it, then it should be available to shut the fight for it. You shouldn't have to go home and have some terrible experience and some struggle because somebody's giving you this arbitrary number, you have to wait. And by the way, I tell people all the time, if anyone's listening, you don't have to abide by that I can count on my hand for people in the last couple of weeks that I've spoken to who all ran into the same thing. And I gave them all the same advice. And I can say that this was advice I said, just go back and tell the doctor I don't. It's nice. I thank you for your concern. But now write the prescription for the insulin pump and they always do No one fights you like it's just it goes to show you how little the statement Oh, you have to wait a year. You have to wait a year. No I don't. Okay, here you go. Well, why if it was so important how come I got the script from you by saying, you know by fighting with you for five seconds, you know what I mean? Like it's it just it just shows itself for how how random the idea that you have to wait a certain amount of time this

Ryan 1:00:23
right i mean when we get our license they don't sit there and say drive for a year get in an accident wear your seatbelt. You know, I mean, I I honestly do think CGM, you know, obviously in the artificial pancreas and in all those things are the technology is only working to improve us improve our quality of life, lessen your chance of neuropathy. I mean, my last day once he was a six, three, that's excellent. And I'm lucky that I had that. But there's going to come a day where I'm going to have a really, really stressful I'm going to have some stressful months ahead of me. And you know, why not take the advantage? Fine? No, why not?

Scott Benner 1:01:00
It Listen, I don't you'd want to give yourself every opportunity, I would think and then from there, you'll decide how valuable it is or isn't free. Listen, maybe you'll get a pump and just say you know what I was okay, with insulin injections. I should I'm going to go back to it. You very well may do that. But you should at least try to know. You know what I mean? Like you can't just assume that it's going to be one way because it really you're just using your imagination to think up reasons not to do it. Seriously. I mean, I completely I'm not I'm not totally not coming down. I think you can tell that from our conversation. But I think some of the reasons you are worried about a pumper just you making up reasons why, why it's not going to work out because there are plenty of people who do martial arts with an insulin pump. get anything like so, it'll work out for it's just something new for you. When you see it, you'll you'll you'll decide, but I think you'll have a good experience.

Ryan 1:01:54
So yeah, that gives me an excuse to buy an iPhone, and I watch. Hey,

Scott Benner 1:01:58
you know what? More fun, more fun stuff. I wrote off on our taxes this year, our cell phone bills and the purchases of iPhones for medical devices,

Ryan 1:02:09
right.

Scott Benner 1:02:11
I mean, it didn't stop me from owing money, but it helped a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So right now, we're breaking up on an hour. I just want to ask you, is there anything we didn't talk about that you wanted to say that that I maybe didn't hit for you?

Ryan 1:02:26
Know, thank you for doing the show. It's easy to follow. And I mean, it's it's a it's an honest, the thing I love is that it's honest, candid information. And it's basically kind of like what I did with Baylor. Look, this is what I did. It worked for me. Yeah, it helps you take it and if it doesn't find something else,

Scott Benner 1:02:48
right on Yeah, don't get stolen. If this isn't working for you. Don't stick with me go somewhere and figure out something that does work. That's it's amazing advice. I appreciate that. I really do. I'm so I'm super psyched that you found the podcast and he came on and told your story about training your own diabetes alert dog now I've got like a DIY DIY pancreas, Episode, artificial pancreas episode now even DIY training dog. I never thought that would happen. It's really as Dude, it's commendable about the effort and the focus you had for it. So good for you. Are you giving me ask you? Are you that way in other parts of your life? Or did just having this dog mean that much to you were able to put the time into it.

Ryan 1:03:27
Know what I like when I want something? I'm like, it's gonna happen. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:03:32
Gotcha. Gotcha. This is a big, it's a big undertaking. There's I mean, just to decide to train a dog like that is, especially when you especially when you live with a woman who eventually would look at you and go, Oh, we have this big lump in the corner. Now that does not check your blood sugar. And it's just eating a bunch of food and crapping all over the house. You said this was gonna be a diabetes alert dog. And it seems like it's a pillow in the corner. That's excellent, man. Good for you. I want to tell you. I hope you have a lot of success with the new job endeavor. I hope you get on the force in Tennessee. And and I hope you can fall back asleep after doing this because I know you're probably tired.

Ryan 1:04:13
look great. Well, hey, Scott, thank you so much. I mean, you know your podcast, just like that new family. You know, when when I was first diabetic, there was no, there was no check your podcast and let's share information. There was no, hey, this worked for me, Hey, you know what, I switched to this and this, I have this problem. I didn't know there's a two hour warmup period. And that's great, because now I go in with these realistic expectations.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
Yeah, right. I think a lot of what you see people complain about online, whether it's about technology or just, you know, anything really things you do Pre-Bolus, anything like that, as they get this, like you said there's a preconceived idea that this is going to work like this and when it doesn't, instead of just seeing it still for the real benefit that it is they see it as like some sort of failure. And so I think you're right having all the information you can have is is does always work. Thanks so much to Ryan for coming on the show and sharing his life with type one his DIY dog and everything else. Thank you of course to Dexcom and Omni pod, you can check them out@dexcom.com forward slash juice box, and my omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. Don't forget about that blog post I told you about where you can see Arden's graph from the waffles. And you can see how we bolused where we boast. I want to wish you all a Happy, Happy Thanksgiving, and remind you to hang out for one more second to hear this from dancing for diabetes. You can find out more at dancing for diabetes.com. My name

Unknown Speaker 1:05:43
is Elizabeth and at 10 years old, I was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. Shortly after inspired by my middle school dance class, I came up with the idea to host a show to raise funds and spread awareness about diabetes. And dancing for diabetes started and has grown ever since. Raise your hand if you have type one diabetes. We operate a variety of programs year round through dancing for diabetes, but my absolute favorite is our kids and teens dance program. All the kids and teens have type one diabetes, it's free. It's open to everyone in Central Florida. And it's a lot of fun to see these kids and teens get together and they get to build these support networks and become free with their diabetes. Everyone in the room gets it. And I think that's really empowering for the kids and the teens in the room to be in an environment where they can still be a kid, but also be cared for and take care of their Type One Diabetes at the same time. What comes to your mind when I asked you to describe what type one diabetes makes you feel like not what it is. But what are words to describe diabetes.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:55
I don't like diabetes. Because a girl at my school, she made fun of me and mckaela because we were diabetic. It's been embarrassing. It's really hard to get to and like every day, but I battled through it because it's for myself. That's the only way I'd be here. And I don't like diabetes, but it does make me stronger. It kind of makes me feel

Unknown Speaker 1:07:23
what scares you about diabetes, low blood sugar, scary, some lows, they just come right away. But I've had lows where I could be low for over an hour. And like notice, and you keep treating it and like there. There's been times where like I'm 16 in the next 15 minutes when it should be like in the 142. And it's like it's scary. For me it was like feeling in my legs and everything like you're losing consciousness. That's a lot of times when it feels like for me, you're either like really tired, really hungry, like you're just like really drained and you can't like really put to anything. Ultimately, what's the worst case scenario a low blood sugar. I think that being diagnosed with Type One Diabetes forces kids to grow up a lot faster than their peers. So I think that this dance program allows the kids and teens an opportunity to be a kid but at the same time, see others that are there similar age and see how they're managing their type one diabetes, how they're making their decisions on their own. So I think that while the dance program offers the kids the opportunity to to be kids in that class, they also get the opportunity to learn from others that are in their exact same situation how many times you'd be around this thing people with type one diabetes these peoples

Unknown Speaker 1:08:39
and these peoples

Unknown Speaker 1:08:42
here and one other fish

Unknown Speaker 1:08:45
are only here. Yeah, those of you that said when you you are hanging out with others who have type one diabetes, where did you meet those friends? Hear? Hear hear? What has been your favorite part about dancing for diabetes? I think like meeting new friends like others that has the same disease and learning more fully finally feeling comfortable in a room and like later in the year like when people get closer we're like, oh, are you okay? Like I heard your ducks calm or like, Are you okay, I heard you from go off like I'm kind of cool and rolling in like, be uncomfortable about the show is incredibly entertaining and inspiring. But the best part is when the kids and teens walk out on stage and get to perform what they've been working so hard for, and remind us why we're all here and why we're working so hard year round, to ensure that they have better lives and one day don't have type one diabetes. What do you want people to learn the night of dancing for diabetes, but

Unknown Speaker 1:09:48
know that diabetes doesn't stop you from doing anything to know that we're not alone and

Unknown Speaker 1:09:53
we're strong.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
Be yourself and maintain diabetes and diabetes control my life.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:09
My hope for all the kids and teens in our dance program is that their Type One Diabetes will never get in their way it will never stop them from achieving any goals or dreams that they have, and that they will feel empowered by their Type One Diabetes to do more to do better, and to do well for everyone including themselves.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:31
On the night of the show, I want people to know that diabetes doesn't define you. I want people to be inspired. And if they even have type one, that they're not alone and that we can do anything. We put our hearts to

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#194 Dexcom Returns

Jake Leach is back...

Dexcom's SVP of R&D is here to talk about your favorite CGM!

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Alexa - google play/android - iheart radio -  or their favorite podcast app.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends welcome to Episode 194 of the Juicebox Podcast. Today we're sponsored by Dexcom. On the pod and dancing for diabetes, there are links in your show notes, but you can always go to my omnipod.com Ford slash juicebox dancing the number four diabetes.com or dexcom.com, forward slash juicebox.

On today's show, we welcome Jake Leach back. That's right, the Dexcom, Senior VP of research and development is back on the show to tell us about new developments with Dexcom. And answer a ton of questions that were submitted by you the listeners through Facebook and Instagram. Jake was very generous with his time today. So let's not waste any more of your time getting to the show. I'm not even going to give you the tease about what's on this episode. It's all of your questions, and everything Jake was allowed to talk about. Alright, before we get to it, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, and to always consult a physician before making changes to your health care

Unknown Speaker 1:08
plan. Hello is Jake, Jake and Scott? Hey, Scott. You know, we're

Scott Benner 1:32
recording right away. So I,

Unknown Speaker 1:33
you know,

Scott Benner 1:34
besides having you on last time, you said hey, I'm gonna have stuff to talk about after I go to Germany, which I thought was great. I actually reached out into the, into the, into the world and got a few questions for you that I'm going to rapid fire through at the end if we have time, which I think we will. Awesome. Okay, so the last time you were on, I can't believe I'm saying this. I kind of forget why you came on. I think we were talking about g sex. That's right. And it arriving right. And sort of at the end of the episode I said, Is there you know anything else you can tell me about stuff? That's common? And you said after October? So it's after October?

Jake Leach 2:11
Tell me all Yeah. I'd love to tell you every I'd love to tell you everything. But I've got the we got a number of exciting things that are now becoming public that we can I can talk about and obviously have a lot of exciting stuff in the pipeline that will also be coming out but influence influence partnerships as some of our new newest announcements so we can spend some time talking about how we're integrating g six with a number of influence and delivery partners.

Scott Benner 2:40
Okay, well, I'm thrilled because this is, you know, the first time that I genuinely have no idea what we're going to talk about. So I'm excited to find out along with everybody else. I don't even know where to start. Go ahead. What's the most exciting thing it's about that?

Jake Leach 2:55
Well, one of the one of the things that we that Novo Nordisk announced that the E ASD was that we've partnered together Dexcom and Novo Nordisk have partnered to develop diabetes technology, specifically around connected insulin pens. Also, some folks call them smart pens. But what it basically is, is it's a number of insulin pens that they are, have had in development, and are planning to launch as early as next year. And what they are is their pens to keep track of insulin doses, and then communicate via a couple different technologies, some, some are NFC, and some can be Bluetooth, communicate those readings to your phone. And so you're moving forward, the Dexcom app will be able to record insulin doses for those on MDI therapy, the influence and injections can be loaded into the phone. And then you can imagine all of the exciting algorithms and decision support technology that can be developed once you have a good valid insulin data, communicate to the app. That's the whole point is that we want it to be done passively. So that the users aren't typing in or trying to track themselves or their insulin doses. It's all about the pen. They know the technology doing that for them. Okay.

Scott Benner 4:26
Yeah, because I think that's a speed bump for people really, when you have to log things. It seems good in theory, right? Until you're, you know, injecting, you know, I don't know, on a park bench, and you're think I'm not gonna put this in my app. now. I'll do it later. And you'd ever remember that kind of thing. So these pens are just going to speak to an app or they're going to speak to the Dexcom that

Jake Leach 4:49
they'll speak to the Dexcom app. There's also other partners that novo announced that they are partners like gluco that will also be able to access the data. So There's a quite a bit of work going on, on developing the kind of architecture and how the apps coexist and how the data flows. But it's exciting that we have another originally we had Lily on the pen side, we still do. And now we have the next large insulin manufacturer kind of coming on board and connecting with Dexcom. So, we're pretty excited about that. Partnerships been, we've been working on it for a while. And so it was just recently announced last month. So we're gonna, you know, head down and develop some exciting products for both the US and outside the US.

Scott Benner 5:38
I have to ask, even though you won't be able to tell me but is there a timeline for it?

Jake Leach 5:42
Well, what what Nobu announced is that it's been public is that they're expecting to launch some of these pins in early 2019. In in key key markets, so they have a number of markets inside and outside the US. So the plans will continue to firm up, but they're planning to get the technology out soon. In 2019, which obviously means it's been in development for a while. You know,

Scott Benner 6:09
it's kind of incredible, as you're saying this, it strikes me that in the world I grew up in and I'm, you know, I'm getting towards 50 now, but in the world I grew up in there be I don't want to call them monopolies. But you if you made an if you made an agreement with a pen company, it would be with that pen company, and that would be kind of your power base, like your power would be in exclusivity. But now the power is in choice. It really is. It's a paradigm shift. Really, it's it's interesting that you're working with Lilly working with novo they all have these smart pens, and you're happy to do business with with any of them that are that are doing good work. It's it's really, do you know what I mean, how that's sort of uncommon for somebody my age, at least to look back on the way the world used to work.

Jake Leach 6:55
It is, it is a, you know, kind of the always been a key focus of Dexcom. To be, you know, we're very open, we really feel that partners can really amplify the value of our CGM, as well as our CGM can amplify the value of their systems. And so early on, we made the decision to non exclusively partner. Our first two insulin partnerships were with animals and intellect, you know, many years ago is when we first started those relationships and said, you know, what, we're, we're not going to be exclusive, or we're going to work with all the different options, because you said it's got it's all about choice. And some patients choose to use an insulin pump. For continuous infusion, others, find the pens, kind of their therapy of choice. So it really, our goal is to kind of cover as many options as we can with or different partnerships, both on the pen and the insulin pump side.

Scott Benner 7:53
I think it speaks to the quality of Dexcom, too, that the pump companies and the pen companies then are willing to do don't mean like, it's to be able to say, hey, it's on the pod with Dexcom, or it's, you know, tandem with Dexcom. Like, that's kind of that's interesting, I think, I think that shows that you guys are our leaders in the in the space for sure. Okay, cool. So, smart pens coming, that that are gonna make decisions. And basically, you're going to what you're going to start getting not only decision based data back, but sort of that it'll also log so that you kind of have the, I guess the information that a pump would give you to insulin on board time left, and that sort of idea is all going to be there. We interrupt your regularly scheduled podcast to remind you to go to dancing for diabetes.com. That's dancing, the number four diabetes.com.

Jake Leach 8:45
That's right. That's right. It'll be a lot of info on board. And then you can start algorithms that give guidance on around insulin dosing. We'll start with insulin visualization. So making sure that the insulin is captured, particularly in our retrospective views. So you can imagine for the healthcare provider, when you go into the clinic, you know, up into this point, the information from a MDI user is fairly challenging because they're giving their doses as they need whether you know, eating their meals, but you're not really getting an electronic copy of that. So this one, the idea is healthcare providers not going to get high quality data from the insulin pens visualized in clarity. So there's a lot of opportunity and visualization of insulin data in follow. That's another feature that we're looking at, because Wouldn't it be great to be able to see influence, delivery as well as glucose and excursion within the follow up, both for our pump and pen partners, we think that would be a really good feature for follow that we've actually already enabled it in the cloud in the back end, and so we just have to do the visualization. When we have to have the connection to the partner data, and then we do the visualizations both in clarity and in follow, and in the G six app. So a lot of a lot of work been going on behind the scenes there and now are excited to start getting ready to bring some of it to the market. And to

Scott Benner 10:18
extrapolate even further into the future. Even though it wouldn't be exactly the same. You could have that app prompt you when to, to Bolus. So it would almost be like as close as you could get to a closed loop system. But with MDI, is that reason? That's right,

Jake Leach 10:34
that's exactly how you got to Scott. And we can even we can detect missed meal, Miss boluses. I mean, imagine, you start to see a glucose excursion with no insulin delivery, you can actually prompt the user to say, Hey, did you remember to take that take that bolus, so there's quite, there's quite a bit of advice, guidance help that a system can provide, I think the key has always been got to be easy to use. And it's got to not cause you got to get a lot of benefit from it, you know, in order to be able to, you know, in order to use the devices. So these things have to be really simple. So,

Scott Benner 11:11
can I asked you to pretend with me for a second say I'm using this system in the future. And I'm injecting, and I'm and it tells and I forget to tell it, hey, I'm having a large meal. And it it can see my blood sugar starts going up. So it says to me, Hey, did you remember the Bolus? And I think, Oh, I didn't. And then can it? Can I tell it? Well, that's the meal I ate around this time. Could it make an insulin decision, not just based on the carbs, but on what it's seeing with my blood sugar as well?

Jake Leach 11:42
Absolutely, absolutely. I think the, you know, Bolus calculator. There's lots of them in existence today. But what what doesn't exist is a is a bolus calculator that not only takes a glucose level into account, but also takes change in direction. You know, there's a number of protocols with a number of, you know, guidances out there about how to dose insulin based on you know, glucose change and to train the arrows on your on your CGM. But if you can imagine that you would be fairly simple to take that and generate an algorithm that just prompts the user with, here's a glucose change, here's how much your blood sugar is, here's how much if it's correction dose here, so much insulins on board. And then you could basically enter carbohydrates, there's a lot of exciting work going on in terms of out to help folks estimate carbohydrates and a lot of thought on pattern recognition there. I mean, if you think about it, people don't eat. Most people don't eat, you know, dramatically different meals every day. to kind of have handled the added quite a few patterns, right? So you could start to understand for a certain person, what are the different meal sizes look like? So it may not have to be am dialing in exact number of carbs. It could be more like I'm having my typical breakfast.

Scott Benner 13:03
See, you're gonna put my podcast out of business, Jake, because I talked I talked about obviously Pre-Bolus thing is just monumentally important. But if you miss on Pre-Bolus, or Pre-Bolus in time, or Pre-Bolus just isn't possible. Then I talked about over bolusing. So Bolus for the carbs, then Bolus for the spike that's going to come because you didn't Pre-Bolus and Bolus for the momentum that the food causes. And it's a guessing game right when you're doing it without an algorithm. All this talk about algorithms and the future is making me excited. It also makes me incredibly happy that Arden is an omni pod user already. Because once all of this comes together, not only is Arden going to have all of the goodness that comes from this Dexcom stuff, but she's going to have the only tubeless insulin pump to make it all happen. But even before all that integration is finalized, I believe that Arden is incredibly lucky to be using a tubeless insulin pump that allows her the freedom to live the way she wants without being connected to a device and a bunch of tubing. The best part about the Omni pod really is it small form factor that it's self contained that holds your insulin, and that when you need to talk to it. It's not connected to something that you have to keep clipped to you. There's this little device off to the side, you push a couple buttons on it, tell it you want insulin, and then there's a wireless transmission that happens between that device and the pod in the bowl is just happened. Actually a little later in this episode, you're going to hear Jake talk about something about Omni pod that's going to make you incredibly excited. I don't want to spill the beans yet, but trust me when you hear it. It's gonna make a giggle.

Unknown Speaker 14:34
Like a little gleeful he like that.

Scott Benner 14:36
That's not playful. I can't do it anyway, it'll be delay. In the meantime, if you're not already using the Omni pod Today's the day to start and it's super simple. All you need to do is go to my omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. There you can try a free no obligation demo the pod they'll actually send you one out that you can wear and try for yourself. You can absolutely not be free. You cannot beat no obligate Just go on Miami pod.com Ford slash juice box, fill in the tiniest bit of information, get the demo, see what you think and get ready for the future, you want to be ready when the future gets here, you don't want to be standing around like oh, and the futures here, I didn't know.

Jake Leach 15:17
What's next, what we've got just a quick, kind of to touch on on the insulin pump side. We one thing I think we mentioned last time, when you and I spoke was that Dexcom had recently acquired type zero technologies, which is a group in Charlottesville, Virginia to spin out of the University of Virginia. They've licensed technology from the university and have a close working relationship with the technologist at the university. And what they've developed is both closed loop algorithms for insulin pump delivery, which is what's that technology thing implemented the next generation of the tandem pump, it's called control IQ. And so tandems that clearly clearly come through study. So there's that technology on the insulin pump side that we plan to make available to, to our pump partners, and continue to evolve that technology working closely with tandem on a next generation have even passed what they're having clinical studies now. And so we have that technology. But that group also as part of our approach to the decision support algorithms that united talked about. So that group was doing it was actually even conducting studies on MDI, in a, they called it the control, or the in control advisor is actually an app that gave advice about their diabetes, in terms of insulin and how much to take. And so was actually recording a lot of information during a study. So that study is still ongoing. And we're learning quite a bit about how to implement a good decision support system from that study. And we're just basically taking a team from type zero and combining it with some of our internal efforts, you know, to really supercharge this focus on decision support. But what guidance we can help give patients now that we've got, you know, accurate CGM, reliable CGM ratings along with insulin data. So we've got to kind of both sides covered. On our pump side, we've got tandem spoke about, we've got insolate. And with their horizon system, which is they've been continuing providing updates on the progress. They're, they're planning to enter clinical studies soon with that. One of the interesting things that they recently announced that if you heard this with it, they are now partnered with Samsung to bring to market the ability to dose your influence. So from hydro boluses, or make pump adjustments from your own cell phone. So it would be an insolent app on your phone that allows you to provide dosing guidance, which is really exciting because we for a long time at Dexcom, we've always taught that cell phone is a great interface for many, not for everybody. But for many patients. That's a very convenient option. And with the insulin system, we always had this extra PDM. Yeah, to carry the programmer. And now, for those who want to use their phone, they can use that connection on their phone. So that that was an exciting announcement that came out at the Samsung developer conference last week. But both insulin index contenders.

Scott Benner 18:32
I haven't dug into that as far as I have, but just the just the overarching announcement in seven days, became the second most popular blog post on my blog this year.

Jake Leach 18:45
And Oh, nice. I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 18:47
assuming you know what the most popular one was. But yeah, it's you guys. You guys are the I think that on the pod index commerce are the two most kind of compelling technologies in diabetes, but But anyway, that's, it's amazing. It's incredible. Can I ask you a sort of related question? Do you guys do you guys see pumps with closed loop systems? Do you see glucagon ever being necessary in the closed loop? Where do you think the algorithm will make the glucagon not necessary? Would you not care?

Jake Leach 19:17
You know, it's a it's a great question. It's got because we haven't, we're partnered with beta bionics, which is a you know, founded by Ed Damiano. And his approach has always been to use glucagon. You know, by hormonal, we got insulin and glucagon. And he's, you know, he's produced some really exciting results with that system, in both adults and in pediatrics, you know, in different environments. And I think what from for me, one of the things I always struggled with early on with it with the concept of glucagon in the closed loop was that there just wasn't nobody had pumps stable glucagon. Yeah. So He had to, he had to mix it, you know, and a lot of stuff that Ed was doing was he, every day, you had to either mix a new version of the glucagon and then put it into the reservoir or the pump. So I always thought, Boy, that's a real hassle. I don't know if the benefits are worth doing that. But he can he believe in the technology. And so he's been working with a couple of different manufacturers on, you know, making pump stable glucagon available, you know, so he's made a lot of targets there, I think there's still more road to go. But I think it's much more of a possibility now that you're getting glucagon that can remain stable in a pump for multiple days. So it's interesting to see, I think there's, you know, there's, there's, it's more of a system with the two drugs in it more complex, but, you know, potentially could get better outcomes from it. So the answer really is, I don't know, I think we're, we're partnered with some folks that are working on single hormone and with add on is dual hormone. And we'll see, you know, I think what's gonna end up happening is the usability of the product. And the clinical outcomes are kind of the two keys, ease to the product, as well as cost, you know, what, how are these markets going to evolve over time, my expectation across all the markets is we're going to continue to improve the technologies reduce the cost of them.

Scott Benner 21:19
So that'll be another important aspect of the technology. There's a small company in Chicago that's getting ready to put their their stable glucagon, I think into FDA. into the process.

Unknown Speaker 21:30
Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 21:32
Well, yeah, I just was wondering, like, because it makes sense that if you had if you if you could bump both ways, not just make, you know, kind of your future decisions based on on algorithm data that I get, I assumed it would be easier, but you make a point about cost, and something's going to come up later while we're talking. But okay, that's, that's absolutely terrific. I'm at a loss. I don't know what they ask you about next.

Jake Leach 21:56
Well, give me some more updates. So we've, we started last month, we started launching g six outside the US. So we started with the murky markets outside the US, Germany, Switzerland, UK, and we're going to continue to roll it out over the coming months. But our plan is to roll it out as fast as possible. We already overall there's more cheese users on G six than there are on G five. So we've been very quickly upgrading all the patients that g six got and balancing our ability to manufacture the product that we you know, we've been continually increasing the scale of our manufacturing operation on G six. And we've had some We've had a few struggle jiki broke up. You are completely gone. I can't hear.

Unknown Speaker 22:50
Did I lose you?

Unknown Speaker 22:54
I definitely lost you. Oh, a second. Everybody.

Scott Benner 22:57
On Jake on a cell phone today?

Jake Leach 22:58
We don't usually do that. Sorry about that. I guess we got cut off. Don't

Scott Benner 23:11
worry about you were set. I think you were getting ready to tell me you were talking about supply chain, I think.

Jake Leach 23:17
Okay, yeah. So we are, yeah, we're ramping g six as fast as possible. And we are, you know, excited about what we're seeing in the market. There's more users on G six that are on G five now. And we will you know, our plan is to get as many people on G six as possible. We recently got approval for Medicare with G six. So we're planning to launch that as soon as we have capacity to do that. So yeah, for us all things, g six, we're working on enhancements to that platform, and also working on our next generation platform, the g7.

Scott Benner 23:55
Okay, so let me ask you a question about supply chain because I reached out into the community. And there was a couple of things that I got asked about multiple multiple times. One of them was that. So it's interesting that some people experience it. Forget what the issue is, sometimes issues are experienced by some people and not by others, which must be a phenomenon makes you mental. But because like for instance, I have Arden's had the G six since the limited market release, so we have to be up on six months now, right, if not longer, and we have not had one failed sensor, every one of those made it 10 days. But then you'll hear somebody say I can't get any of my sensors to last more than seven days or six, you know, like that kind of thing. And the same goes with supply. I hear people say all the time that customer service is slower now that they've grown, which we've seen in the past, Kevin's been on the past and talked about that, like we grew really big. We're trying to catch up with customer service, we'll get there and that there's a problem with supplies. But as an example in my life, when by the way I want everyone to understand that when I call Dexcom it's not like a like a different phone rings too. So I call the same customer service people you do my account doesn't say the guy from the podcast. And I said, Hey, you know what I mean, it's time for me to order sensors. And I waited for I was on hold and had the whole, the whole call was done in less than 10 minutes and stuff arrived Three days later. Why is it different for some people than others?

Jake Leach 25:18
It's a great, great question, the dog project comes into play. So when it comes to just product performance, one of the things we're very proud of is that as we've continued to scale g six, we've been able to keep the product quality high. And so what I would say is what from from the data that I've looked at G six, often new users to the system, whether they're particularly if they're new to CGM, or even if they're just new to the G six system, because it is different. Sometimes it takes a little while to figure out some of the tricks to make and stuff, you know, and sensors last stay on all of those, all of those things. So what we've seen is new users continue to get better experiences with the product in terms of sensor lasting, Bluetooth connectivity, all of those things, once they learn some of the tricks to getting a feel for the for the system to work. And we we've uh, we're one of the things we're focused on is how do we continue to make it so that you don't have to know the cycle your Bluetooth on and off to fix your connection, or, you know, make sure you really clean the scan and don't use, you know, like, some sort of lotion on before you put your sensors on, and how you treat the adhesive and all those things, right. But all the things you've learned over years of using a CGM product. So, but you know, some some patients, but, you know, not all sensors last, they do, they can stop before 10 days. And so we, you know, we want those people to call in, we want to be able to replace their sensors. So I think, you know, different experiences, there are lots of different experiences out there. But from everything I've seen, the quality of the product is still still very high, even though, you know, we're continuing to scale manufacturing. on the supply side, it's a very, it's a very complex story, because different people based on their insurance and how they get the product or middle determine, and of what looks to happen, I'll give you an example. Some patients get the product directly from us. Some patients get them through a distributor, the distributors make very large orders from us. And then they take those orders, and they provide them to the patient. And so depending on which distributor you have, how they do their orders, and when you know, we do run into some sort of supply issue can dictate who could run into an issue and who doesn't. Our goal is to make sure that nobody runs into a backorder situation, whether it's a direct customer or through a distributor, or through the pharmacy, because more and more patients are starting to get the product in the pharmacy.

Scott Benner 27:58
So jump in for a second. Yeah, so a distributor, a distributor can throw out like they can make a decision to throttle their shipments. But that doesn't mean that. So I think what people imagine is that there's a big Dexcom warehouse somewhere and it's empty, and there's no stuff in it. And I believe that by No, I read through this stuff, and I think oh my gosh, thank God, I don't have like a market research shop. Because as I'm reading through people's questions, you can sort of see where sometimes this they don't realize that the questions very specific to them. Or that just because they went online and saw 20 people say the same thing. That doesn't mean anything because I don't think you guys do you guys release your actual amount of users. Would you? You don't say that. Do you publicly? No, no, I

Jake Leach 28:42
don't I don't I don't believe in anything, but it's the same

Scott Benner 28:44
but but if I said that I saw 100 people saying the same thing. That would be a tiny percentage of the overall users. It absolutely and imperceivable amount almost. And so and so that's sort of the internet playing tricks on you once in a while and when it's happening to you it's as real as it could be. You don't I mean like like you said something just a second ago was amazing. But you know, you put on the new g six right? You stick it on your break off the little tab you push the button and it's on. But how many people then go back and push down on the adhesive when they're finished? I do that and they never fall off of Arden. You don't I mean, like as Arden's been moving towards her first shower, she'll come to me and say, hey, let's cover this next calm before I jump in the shower, like little stuff that that takes you from thinking, Oh, this thing doesn't work to me just understanding like, Oh, this is exactly how this works. There's this thing that is incredibly specific. It's this device that's incredibly specific. It's static, trying to be put on what I'm guessing is hundreds of thousands of different people with different skin types, different hand lotions different bla bla bla bla bla. And it's interesting because it's easy to feel like it's you and it must be this horrible problem. But I will say that we've been using on the pod forever like it got it's gotta be it's 10 years. In the first week I had on the pot, three of them must have, I took them off. And I thought, Oh my God, this thing stinks. It doesn't work. And then I realized, like two months into it, that each one of those was me. Like, I just, I didn't do something that I now know how to do. And it's just very interesting, because when you're caught in that moment is super simple to feel like, this is a huge world issue. And it has to be happening everywhere. So my point is, is I believe that when somebody says, You know, I reached out to edgepark, and edgepark said, that there's a supply issue, they are apt to then blame Dexcom, not edgepark. But is that the case? Or how does it actually and I didn't mean to use edgepark as an example, but like a distributor can throttle their own stuff? That's a supply issue. That doesn't necessarily mean you don't have it? Is that what I'm, is that right?

Jake Leach 30:44
Yeah, generally what, if a distributor is struggling to meet an order, it's generally because their shipment from Dexcom, either they didn't order enough, or we weren't able to send enough, you know, to meet their forwarder. And then we're going to send a bunch more, but because one distributor is running into an issue doesn't mean the other distributors have that same issue. And doesn't mean that Dexcom direct customers or pharmacy customers will have it's one of those, you just kind of if you're tight on supply, somebody somewhere is going to get hit by that. And then our goal is to prioritize anybody who doesn't have sensors, we got to get, you know, get them sensors as fast as possible. So it's one of those things it's not, it's kind of it can move around, based on you know, what timing, but we are continuing to ramp and we're gonna, you know, our expectation is, we'll have plenty, plenty of capacity. We're almost there now. And so we, but we got to grow, you know, demand is definitely outpacing what we thought, we just the awareness around Dexcom CGM g six, it's, we knew it was going to be high, but it's a little higher than we planned. So yeah, we, we, you know, in hindsight, for our next launch, we'll plan or plan for even more demand than we think just just to be safe.

Scott Benner 32:05
I can I can I can we extrapolate that that same statement and sentiment applies to customer service that you're you're adding to that now?

Jake Leach 32:13
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. We're, yeah, we're continuing to add more and more folks across our different call centers, depending on what technical support or customer support for orders. Patient Care, for those that need extra extra help. So we've definitely got all all those head counts are increasing so that we can make sure we can answer get to those phones. We we keep tight metrics on all the our ability to you know, how quickly can we answer phones? How long are folks on weight, and every time I see a long wait time, I feel feel awful. It's like, Hey, we got to get you know, this person needs help. Let's get somebody on it. So we're doing everything we can to bring on more folks.

Scott Benner 32:54
It's very cool. It's so funny how cyclical this whole thing is, like, I had this conversation with Kevin two years ago. Like, like, it's the same conversation like I'm going to ask you in a little bit like to explain like how Bluetooth works again, because the people who heard that explanation, some of them are off in their lives now. And now there are new people coming on, they need these same explanations. But first, do you have any other because? Any other announcements that we haven't touched on yet?

Jake Leach 33:20
No, I think I think, Scott, I think we've hit it all.

Scott Benner 33:22
Okay, so now we're gonna know we're gonna play fast money here. All right, we're gonna we're gonna whip through and see how quickly Jay can talk.

Jake Leach 33:30
I love it.

Scott Benner 33:31
Alright, so I have some now questions and some asks. Great, yeah. So I think some of them we've hit already, there are people who think the sensor failure rate is greater with G six and G five. Does any of the data support that statement?

Jake Leach 33:47
It does not. But what I will say is that the adhesive on G six, although it's a different shape, and a little more actual piece of material on V 6000. v five is the same past material. So if you are struggling, it is answer. The stands for seven is going to be more challenging for 10 days. So I think that in that aspect. Let's see in terms of our kind of rates, the replacement and rates of relapse, we're seeing good performance. But people do have issues and you know, within the product doesn't always last a full 10 days. So we are continuing to improve it. We do have a new patch material that will be coming out soon, which is very similar, same materials, but a little bit more advanced design on the patch side. So we're excited to see how that does in the market.

Scott Benner 34:45
Some of that somebody did. Is it possible that the Dexcom rep would have handed me some of that at the jdrf event in Ohio last week. He said out

Jake Leach 34:51
that. I don't know. I don't know. I know. I know. We're close on it. So I don't know. I know we haven't cut over full production to it. Okay. But you may have gotten some early access to it. But yeah, it's a little, little state here. And from our clinical studies, we've run with it. We've seen, you know, really good performance, folks that we're having issues with, with the older patch sticking this one, let's fix the vignette stuff better for them and their sensors. So that's Yeah, so we're not seeing sensor g six different but you know, 10 days is longer. So, you know, the poles can have issues. Okay.

Scott Benner 35:30
Okay. Let's see, did that. And that leads me to the next question. A bunch of people asked me, is the adhesive any different than prior?

Jake Leach 35:39
No, no, it is not not, not on the first year at present g six out there today. But there is a new new version coming, that's going to be at least from our clinical studies, you should be sticking around to stay on longer timeline for the new season. It's going to I don't know the exact time, but it'll definitely be out. Within, if not this year, next year.

Scott Benner 36:01
This is here, this one was huge. Is my Apple Watch ever gonna be able to act as you know, as my receiver without a phone nearby?

Jake Leach 36:13
Yes, the answer is yes. The timing is still you know, we're still working through all the challenges of the complexity of the Bluetooth under the hood. So you know, we've been working on the Apple Watch project since before Apple announced it, not this summer, but the past one. And what we found through working with Apple and working with the products is that the original user experience from some of the initial implementation from Apple, it wouldn't have been what we wanted, it would have been too complex and kind of frustrating for most people. So Apple's made a lot of enhancements on the way that the watch Bluetooth functions. And so a lot of it is very beneficial to the CGM communicating directly to the watch without a phone or receiver model. And so we're deep in development on net. And we're working on out the chain, the Bluetooth protocols within the transmitter. It can't support a direct to watch connection. But we will get there. Apple is committed to it, we're committed to it, we're going to make it happen. It's just taking longer than we want and longer than we hoped. But it's a very active project. And we don't have any timing on it. But it's it's as soon as possible the new operating system from The watch has allowed us to make a lot of progress on this development. We were a little bit stalled for a bit because there there's some challenges with how the system would pair to the transmitter. And so, but we've overcome most of that there's still a few things we got to fix, or figure out how to solve.

Scott Benner 37:54
So is it a hardware issue? or salt? Like what if I have an older watchmate? My might I just not be involved in this when it finally comes to fruition? Or was it more about the operating system? If you're listening to Jake right now and thinking How is it possible? I don't have a Dexcom it's time to get moving dexcom.com forward slash juice box. There's also links in your show notes. That's where you go. That's where you get this whole process started.

Unknown Speaker 38:21
Come on. Think

Scott Benner 38:22
about it. Listen to what he's saying. No finger sticks, integration, decision making. Everything is coming like a freight train. The future is bearing down on you like a bear in the woods and you're holding the big honeypot. Here comes your go.

Unknown Speaker 38:39
Hey,

Scott Benner 38:39
it's the future coming.

Unknown Speaker 38:41
Boo.

Scott Benner 38:41
I'm almost here. Here it Here it is. It's sneaking up behind it. It's not even that it's kind of like a big heavy footsteps. And it's like it's not even sneaking. Really it's right here. It's coming. Like I don't know what comes fast. Think of something that comes fast. Rain on a summer day. Yeah, like you know, you're walking around. It's nice to have that Awesome,

Unknown Speaker 39:00
cool beard. I'm

Scott Benner 39:01
sorry. That's how fast Dexcom is coming. And the stuff they have right now is spectacular. But the future is so bright. You're gonna have to wear shades to understand what I'm saying. Do you understand what I'm saying? dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Don't even let me spend time talking about sharing follow. Don't let me spend time talking about no finger sticks. That's all there. You understand that already? The last thing to do is to get it. I don't know. I just listened to music. Listen, didn't didn't didn't go get a dex coming. This is over cuz Scott was telling me about it. It sounds really cool. Yeah, that's it. dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. It's like you're the predator. And Arnold Schwarzenegger. Isn't that movie? What's it called predator and he goes, he goes he says that a predator kill Do it. Do it. Now I'm here. Do it. Just do it. dexcom.com for slash juicebox

Jake Leach 39:53
it's mostly about the operating system. I believe the very first the series one watch does not work as well. doesn't have the hardware, but the other series watches do work. And so if you don't have to have in the latest series for, for this feature to work, it's the way that we're we see it right now you can still have some of the older versions, you just need the latest operating system for the lock, which may almost everybody upgrades right away in the same vein,

Scott Benner 40:18
do you want to do this with Fitbit ever?

Jake Leach 40:23
So we, we do and we are working with Fitbit. And we actually recently got a few approvals for some products that are for really outside the title one intensive influence space, they're more protect to one of the integrations there is with a Fitbit. It's not direct to watch, though it's through the phones, though. So the Fitbit technologies though, they'll need to make some changes to the hardware and software on the Fitbit before we could enable a direct connection. But we are working with them on site, we call it secondary display. But it's the concept of have the convenience of the readings on your wrist. But you do still have you're still tethered to your phone, but the circuit still connects to the phone. So but we are working on that. And we did get approval recently for a product in the tattoo space that utilize that. And so we're looking at how do we take that and apply it to our D six product. Okay. Okay. Let's see.

Scott Benner 41:30
Oh, here's an easy one Android, any updates to the Android app? Will there ever be a widget or notification that includes the number?

Jake Leach 41:40
Yes, yes, yes, yes. We're working on that. I'm assuming when they say that the there's the the we call widgets on the iPhone. There is a display of on when you swipe, you can see the number on Android, they may be talking about follow. I don't believe we have that functionality on the Android follow. But yeah, our we're working on all of enhancements to follow as well as G six, as well as supporting more phones on Android. And so I mean, we we continually have done a number of point releases, you know, fixing bugs improving performance on both the iOS and Android apps over the past. Since we've launched the SEC, let me

Scott Benner 42:22
let me pop in with this just real quick. It's nothing I think you probably have to answer but people want you to know that the Google pixels aren't allowing follow to override default sounds or alerts with the latest release.

Jake Leach 42:34
Okay, that's good. That's good feedback. I hadn't I hadn't heard that yet. So we'll, we'll jump. I'll jump right on it.

Scott Benner 42:40
We can we can beta test you right now. And so to the beat information right now. So you did mention g six for Medicare that happened is that going to happen?

Jake Leach 42:50
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're going to Yeah, we're gonna we're going to launch that as soon as we have enough supply.

Scott Benner 42:57
Great. Oh, so that's another thing that's this year. We're not this year, but in the next handful of maybe a quarter to two quarters situation.

Jake Leach 43:05
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think I think Kevin may have given given some more particular guidance on our last earnings call. But just you know, it was from last week. But yeah, we're definitely, you know, full force on getting getting ready to launch that.

Scott Benner 43:17
Is there a time in the future, we can expect a, like a generational leap with the follow up, like rise and fall alerts like that are, you know, for rapid rise and fall like no data alerts, like being able to use landscape? Those sorts of things?

Jake Leach 43:32
Yes, yes. There's a there's an entire revamp of follow in progress right now. Okay.

Scott Benner 43:39
I see, you're not gonna tell me when,

Unknown Speaker 43:41
in that same.

Scott Benner 43:42
In that same vein, a couple of people wanted to know that the watch app looks a little old. So fair, I

Jake Leach 43:48
passed. I agree. I agree. I agree. We, it's one of those. You know, for a long time, we were so focused on G six, and all our resources were on G six. And so we were just making the system compatible to make it work now, we need to continue to enhance the platform. And I completely agree there's a facelift is needed.

Scott Benner 44:10
Me banks have a couple more incentives. A couple of bigger questions.

Unknown Speaker 44:13
Let's see.

Scott Benner 44:16
Here's a small one. I guess the app update that happened recently, when you add an event, the highlighted.is gone that seemed very important to somebody, and I think they would like it back.

Unknown Speaker 44:27
So I know you will

Unknown Speaker 44:28
take a look.

Scott Benner 44:29
When will we be able to see a number on my watch complication? So not just the Dexcom icon, but as a follower, when can I look down on that complication and see a number without having to open it up?

Jake Leach 44:42
So that's, that's a very good question. And that's just one of those features that it's on our way called the backlog. We have a long list of features that we continually work to prioritize implementation, but that is something we do want to it's on our list to implement. So it will happen likely with a with a new release of five Have a will usually what we do is we will release features, you know, kind of one at a time, you know, or a few groups together. One of the exciting things is the new 510 k status of the texts come to the class to a little bit faster our ability to get releases out. So now that we have that, from the FDA, we're looking at how do we take advantage of it, and it's likely going to be a number of releases, with new features being able to get in more frequently than you've seen in the past, due to the faster approval times,

Scott Benner 45:38
I wanted to mention that I got a new Apple Watch. And there's the new face that, you know, is the one that I want to use, except the complications are sort of like a slightly different shape on some of the watch faces, and it doesn't allow for third party complications in some of them. Is that something you're aware of? And is that being blocked by Apple? Or? Or is your complication just not designed to fit in it?

Jake Leach 46:00
No, it's it's a certain certain complications work in those spaces, and other ones don't enter the apple really controls. That's, that's one of the unique things they control that watch face. And I think that is, you know, that they're all there's quite a if you get into the details, there's quite a few rules around the complications and how often you can update them. Most of it is driven by battery consumption on the watch, right? The more your activity you're doing, the more you're updating the complications, the number of complications, all those things have an impact on the battery life of the launch. And so they've got some tight restrictions that they've worked to loosen as a, you know, I get feedback from users and developers, they get feedback and they make changes, but they tightly control it so that you get a repeatable experience on the watch battery life.

Scott Benner 46:49
Okay. Yeah, that sounds like something they don't they don't want to make a claim about the watch battery life and then have your complication, drag that down. And then that's not something they can answer to. It's sort of like the trend, it's sort of like your problem with Bluetooth. Like it's trying to involve somebody else? And how do you address something with a different company? Hey, a lot of people a lot, a lot of people want to know, when there, you'll be able to increase the number of followers. Is that something that's being thought about? Because apparently, there's a lot of I have to drop somebody and then re add people and do a lot of this stuff. with smaller kids, it seems to be more prevalent there with their parents is that on the horizon by any chance?

Jake Leach 47:27
It is, it is it's one of the key features of our next generation follow is to be able to follow more, have more followers. And so it's all empty, able to follow more people. So both of those are on our list, because we recognize when we originally developed it five was like kind of a number that we optimized around. But there's no technical reason why we can't do more, it was just kind of that's where we landed in the original share. And so it's high time we we updated.

Scott Benner 47:58
Somebody wanted me to ask you if you can make it possible to log in the follow app and have that link to the main account.

Jake Leach 48:05
So Oh, that's a good, that's interesting, sort of had the follower. Enter events,

Scott Benner 48:11
right. And their events to meld seamlessly with what's being entered on the other on the on the person with diabetes phone two.

Jake Leach 48:20
So yeah, that's good. That's good. Good to be back. Okay.

Scott Benner 48:23
g six for iPad coming.

Jake Leach 48:27
But I do not be lose that.

Scott Benner 48:29
I don't know. I don't use my iPad for Dexcom stuff.

Jake Leach 48:32
So I was gonna Yeah, the Yeah, the iPad support. For the G six is no, is not on the roadmap right now, most, most of our experiences with the iPad, was that, you know, the use case, there weren't very many people using it and the amount of work for us to support it was quite, quite substantial. Because every time a new version comes out, we every time there's a new version of iOS or the phones, we actually have to do a tremendous amount of testing on the inside. Nobody sees that. But that's how we ensure everything works properly. And so the itI was just not not supported. For that reason, if if we didn't have to test it as rigorously, it could be But at this point, right now, that's where we're at. We do a lot of testing for each, each model of phones, whether it's iOS or Android. So

Unknown Speaker 49:22
let's see.

Scott Benner 49:24
Is there in in Actually, I'm gonna ask that one. One last one. Let me jump to that. Sorry about that. Alert sounds being more user definable. We talk about this a lot. I remember the last time I spoke to you, I talked about a person who was telling me that children like boys of a certain age can only hear certain pitches and like that voices work better. And so people really do overwhelmingly want more options because I think they get alarm fatigue, but someone made a specific asked me the specific question that I like so not only do they want more sound But they want to know if they can define if you guys can define better the alerts. So the example that was given to me was basically this. Say My target is 110. But my blood sugar's 120. And but the dex knows, I'm going to be, say 105, in in five minutes or something like that, Is it really necessary for me to be alerted that I'm 120? If I'm going to be 105, and stable five minutes from now? And are smart alerts like that possible? And so there are two different questions in there a Will we be able to make user defined sounds? If we can't, is that the FDA? Or is it? Is it just a limitation of the software? Something you guys haven't implemented? And can you make it so that it's smart enough not to alert us when it doesn't need to, even though the number might indicate that it should, dancing for diabetes just had their huge blowout show, it just happened. If you missed it, it's not too late to find out more about it, check them out on Facebook, Instagram, and dancing for diabetes.com. That's dancing, the number four diabetes.com?

Jake Leach 51:04
Two great questions. So the on the on the user defined sound is not it's just something that we haven't implemented. But we have talked about it quite a bit, because we do get the requests. And so I don't see any reason. Regulatory wise, as long as you know, we have a default sound. And then the if the user chooses to select a different sound, that they should be able to do that. So I think that's a good enhancement for the app as we move forward. And then on the smart alerts, yeah, we have a lot of discussion about this internally, we kind of we basically did implement the urgent low soon alert, which is kind of the concept of a of a smart alert, where the goal is to give the user more time have an alert sooner in time than they normally would get. If they're going to be urgently low in the next 20 minutes to 30 minutes. So I think there's a lot of opportunities for smart alerts I, I know I've heard many times about, you know, someone has a particular meal, and they know their glucose is going to be high. And they don't want to continually be alerted. They want to be able to say, Okay, I get it, I eat some cake and my glucose can be high, don't keep reminding me ideas. Remind me and, you know, way out in the future if something hasn't been corrected, but I think that it could a great idea about that concept of if you're about you're going above on 20, but we know are going to be 105. Particularly if we've got insulin information and kind of some patterns, I think there's a lot opportunity for making alerts and alarms more convenient. I think we've had threshold alerts for a long time, we're starting to introduce some predictive nature. And I think convenience is a big aspect. For us. For the alerts, it's always about, we got to make sure that our instructions about how they work are very clear. And that's where the FAA comes in. They we do you know, the way that you validate as you do a lot of human factors, testing with actual users to ensure they understand how the alert works, because the last thing you'd want is to implement an alert where the users, some users may understand it, but others may not understand exactly how it works and have a different view of the wrong interpretation. So that's where, you know, gotta be obvious. Yeah. Which is, sometimes I've always been surprised at how hard sometimes it is to make things obvious, because everyone has, you know, different assumptions. And they approach things differently. And so that's a that's an exciting part of developing user interfaces is, you know, how can you take lots of different people and have them all have the same assumptions about something? So Jeff, it's good, good to be back.

Scott Benner 53:48
Okay. Have you ever used Photoshop Elements? There's, I have not personally 13 minutes. So there's, it's an interesting in it in that you can choose to use elements as a beginner as a, as an intermediate, or as an expert. And as you click on tabs at the top of it, it changes what the app does. It's pretty, it's fascinating. I know, it's not something you could ever do. But it's it made me think of it while you were ready. We're talking about that. So in the in the end, what you guys make has to work for everybody. And just because some of us might be more expert users than the other doesn't mean we can leave a new person behind and then not understand their their alarms and other things I got. Okay, a couple quick I have kept you way longer. Are we okay? Yeah, we're talking. Let's see. Apple CarPlay Does that ever do you think that'll ever happen?

Jake Leach 54:36
It could we've we've prototyped with it actually, even a couple of years ago, when it first came out. We had we had CarPlay stereos there enabled stereos on engineers desks and we were playing with it. We, you know, haven't I don't think we kind of figured out how you would how we bring it to market yet. But I think it's an exciting option. So it's definitely something we've looked at and we're looking at

Scott Benner 54:59
web Access to follow. That's something simple like is a maybe like a little widget or something on my screen, something where I could see somebody's blood sugar without having to open up a phone or something like that. I know there are third, there's a third party option, which to be perfectly honest, I'm looking at right now my screen, it works great. So if you can, apparently they want your version of it. Oh, here's a small one. When I clear my alerts on my, my watch, can they Please clear my alerts on my phone too? So I don't have to clear them twice. Is that a limitation of iOS? Or do you

Jake Leach 55:32
just have to tell you it's not? It's not? No, it's it will it was a limitation of some of the earlier designs and also a little bit of the kind of regulatory approach, one of one of the unique aspects of is, if you can clear alerts on your watch. It's, it's not, it's no longer considered a secondary display, it's more of it's in control now as the system. So the regulatory kind of approval cycle for that in the past was different. Now that we're at the 510 K, we can fix that. And so it's in, it's on one of our higher items on the backlog of features to implement. So we do recognize that it would be much more convenient to be able to acknowledge it on your watch and not have to go back to your phone. So we will fix that. And it's not a limitation of the device. Okay,

Scott Benner 56:20
so two more questions, slightly bigger ideas, and then I'm going to ask you about pipelining. And then I'm gonna let you out. So one person asked, Are you guys happy with your mark value? Or is it something you're always working on?

Jake Leach 56:36
I would say we're happy with it. But we're also always working on improving it. The, you know, the sensors work, they're very reliable. But as everyone's experienced, at times, it can be inaccurate. And so I, there's always places for us to look. And so the team that's continually at Dexcom worked on, improving performance is going to continue to do that. So we're, we're really, my main focus is now not on, you know, the average metric, but it's, you know, the Amir de metric, I'm way more focused on anything, that's more than 20% off of a blood reference. It's kind of the outside of 2020, those, those metrics that we capture 30% off or 40% off, we have a very small number of readings that are in those areas. But those are the ones we're focused on. Because you know, we've hopped on system be as reliable as possible. So we'll never rest we're gonna keep keep where the performance later we intend to stay there. Excellent.

Scott Benner 57:39
Is there any, you know, I feel like people talk about waste, like recyclable waste with G six more than they did with G five. And I, it's funny, because when I hold the G five insert, I hold the G six inserter. They don't feel like one doesn't feel much heavier than the other, which in my mind means it's not that much more material one way or the other. But I think it just looks bigger. And so it bothers people more not that it shouldn't. But do you guys ever talk about recycling programs now? Or is that not we do, we,

Jake Leach 58:09
we talk we talk about recycling programs, we also talk about, you know, kind of next generation or next generation platform, you know, kind of making the applicator device even even smaller, with even less, less plastic involved. And I think the complexity of it is you're getting the sensor under the skin isn't as simple. There's a lot of important aspects to it isn't just like slipping into the scan. There's how the needle inserts the speed, the size before so all those things. And so the G sex was our first automated applicator with all that technology built in. And we do talk about recycling programs with it. But recycling medical waste is a bit challenging

Scott Benner 58:51
in the construction. Right, it has to be pulled and taken.

Jake Leach 58:53
Yeah. You know, and it's one of those things, there's a lot of cost involved in that for for you know, depending on who's paying for it and so just it wasn't we are we are very aware of it. And we think what g six you you do have less applicators per year they do a G five to the longer center life. And but yeah, we're aware of it and we want to continue to, you know, make the products you know, as environmentally friendly as possible. But the reality is, you know that it does take technology to get that sensor under the skin. Yeah. Hey,

Scott Benner 59:27
if someone sees a blood sugar, it's just off their testing and the CGM is not it's not saying anything close to what their their phone says even if she says you want them to calibrate then or no What are they supposed to be doing that?

Jake Leach 59:41
No, usually, most particularly, I mean with G six, my recommendation is if you take a finger stick and it doesn't match your readings, or if you're you know if if you're reading on the phone just seems way off, you know on your display it the CGM reading isn't what you expect. Take a finger stick, double check. I mean, don't don't ignore your symptoms or what you think things should work and trust it. Take a finger stick. And look. I think what I the way that I recommend folks use it is not to calibrate right away, because often, the errant signals in CGM resolve themselves. And so if you see like a persistent error, or a persistent difference between the finger stick and the CGM, then you don't think it's resolving then calibrate. But you know, give it some time. If you you know, if it's, you know, see Jim's not reading accurately don't don't immediately jump in calibrating, because what we've seen actually is that if you calibrate a CGM during a signal error, you can actually cause more damage than help. And so you want to kind of let it let it go for a little bit and then only really entered calibrations. If you're not seeing the sensor signal, go back to what you expect. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 1:01:00
Okay. There was a there's a lot of questions, and I don't think you're you because because your your r&d, but if you could pass on to anybody, you know, obviously always cost access. You know, people want to know if there's a coupon day stuff like that, you know, but it's, you know, I got a specific note from someone who listens in South Africa, and they're like, it's here, and it's available, but I can't afford it. And is there? Is there is Dexcom, helping to make that more affordable. Like, are they working with the entities that could help that be more affordable?

Unknown Speaker 1:01:31
You know, it's

Scott Benner 1:01:32
just, it is, is CGM, just something that's not affordable for everybody? Or is it something that we hope that one day it will be and behind the scenes you guys are working towards that we maybe just don't see that day to day?

Jake Leach 1:01:46
I think the the answer The answer to the axes of definitely, yes, we're working behind the scenes on a lot of things. Medicare was a big push for us, we have a number of folks internationally that are working across the different markets and the dynamics in those in those places. And I say, and so access is going to continue to get better as it has over the years, you know, more states are starting to cover Medicaid of different states are now covering, I think, with the movement of Medicare. So I think in the US reimbursement is it's always slow. But you know, access we've been we've got, you know, vast majority of folks with private plans or even public now, plans are covered into some capacity. And I think as we continue to improve the technology cost, you know, ultimately, the costs will come down as the technologies as we come out with, you know, future generations. Yeah. And so I think CGM is going to get to the point where it can replace finger sticks as the I think it already has in many places. But I think across the world, there's still some work to do to get CGM access better. I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, the, the amount of product in the country, the volume, the distribution, all of those, those aspects. So I just see CGM in the future being the lower lower cost over. But I think it takes time because we have to develop the systems that those have the level of performance that users need, as well as the cost. And in those, those are in a lot of the technology are competing requirements. And so there is a way to balance them. And we are continuing to make progress on both performance and cost.

Scott Benner 1:03:33
Let me ask you this. And I'm just gonna come right out and tell you like, if you can't say or you're uncomfortable, I get it. But there is a less expensive CGM available. Did they do in your opinion isn't? Is it not the same quality?

Jake Leach 1:03:48
Is it not something? Definitely, it's definitely not the same performance. I think, if anybody looks at the performance numbers, or even just talks to folks who have experience with the competitive product, I think it's they'll, they'll know that the system is not as reliable in the hypoglycemic ranges that it doesn't have today doesn't have, you know, kind of any kind of alerts or alarms that could signal us. So what you know, give me an example of what we've seen in Europe, is that the health care systems are willing to pay more for the Dexcom product because of the feature set, the alerts, the alarms, the performance, we even have some areas, health payers that call out the share feature is an important aspect of the system. And they're willing to reimburse it for a higher rate because of that. Yeah. So I think it's well recognized. I think patients recognize it as well as payers and physicians, they recognize that there's a pretty significant difference between the two products. But you know, the way I would look at a competition is good. I'd rather have a competitor than No, no competitors. So I think I think it makes us all better. And we all strive and push each other each other, so I like industries that have competition. And I like the fact that we do have some competition in a glucose monitoring space.

Scott Benner 1:05:08
Jake, I've sat in a car that you can buy for $10,000. I've sat in a car you can buy for 5470 and 120. I can't afford $120,000 car. But when I'm sitting in it, I get the idea of why it costs $220,000. And so I think there are levels of, there are levels of what you need to expect out of things. And it's easy to say, you know, I don't know. I mean, there's some Mercedes over there, I can't afford. But, you know, why can't it be as cheap as this Honda? And I think there's a reason you know what I mean, and I just didn't know what you would think of it. And it's a tough question for me, because, I mean, we're, you know, we've been with you guys for a really long time, I believe what you're saying, but I didn't want to, you know, I didn't know how comfortable you are talking about. So I appreciate that very much. I guess the last real question I have is then, is gees, you mentioned g seven. So g sevens next, but is G seven the last of that. That kind of, I don't know, I don't know, features like, like, form factor? Are we going to move to something smaller after that? Is that the goal? Or or could there be a g8? while you're still working on something else? I guess merrilees Next, right.

Jake Leach 1:06:20
Yeah, yeah, very rarely is next. We're working very closely with them on this next next generation platform. And yeah, there's, there will be G, G, H, and G nines and G 10. And then we're going to continue to innovate in all the areas we want to which is, you know, cost, convenience, performance and outcomes is a new one, right? I mean, trying to, you know, we've for a long time, we've provided reliable glucose readings. But now it's all about what do you do with that information? How do you get a better outcome for, for the user? With with no advice, connections that are excellent partners. So there's still a tremendous amount of opportunity to, you know, continue to evolve the system. And so yeah, there will be there's multiple platforms GG seven, as well, and development, which is how many, you know, in product development General, but also medical devices that where you have to run clinical studies, yet you you work on them for many years, before they become public.

Scott Benner 1:07:22
Yeah, there, hey, listen, there's a this is a little aside. But I hear anxiety from people a lot, because now used to be able to get a transmitter ahead. Like you used to know, if the transmitter when the transfer you had was done, the next one was sitting with you. But the insurance company's mind, I have pretty spectacular insurance. And I'm in that situation to where Arden sensors just arrived the other day, but I was not allowed to order another transmitter yet. And I don't I know, that's a very back room kind of thing. But if it could be impressed upon the the providers that there is a lot of just quality of life comfort, where it's not in the back of your head, oh my gosh, what do I do if this should happen? I mean, there's a lot of value in that for people. So I don't know if there's a way to pass that around and make any impact with anybody. But I know what it impacts a lot of people. So I just thought I thought that was worth mentioning here at the end.

Jake Leach 1:08:17
I can't, that's a great point. We, we recognize that. And we we will make sure that the the folks continue to communicate that but we we fully appreciate the amount of anxiety that can happen, you know, when managing diabetes and found the fact that, you know, if you can't, and if you don't have extra supplies, you don't have that transmitter. It's not a good, it's not a good feeling.

Scott Benner 1:08:42
Yeah, and I'm not looking for enough to, you know, stock up 10, you know, 10 people with diabetes for a year, I just want, I just want one, just enough to think that if something were to happen to this one, you know, that was outside of the parameters of expectation that I wouldn't then have to wait, I know, it seems kind of crazy, maybe to think but for some people having to wait two days is a long time, you know, having to wait, you know, and then some people fall into that. Well, my, you know, my distributor is two weeks out and above. And it's just it's a strange space for people to be in. So I appreciate you saying that. Jake, you stayed on way longer than we were supposed to. And I'm assuming I'm gonna get yelled out about that later.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:18
But I really appreciate

Scott Benner 1:09:18
that this was really fantastic. And you went through every one of these questions. So kudos to you for hanging on like this. And I really appreciate Hope you're nowhere near those fires out there.

Jake Leach 1:09:31
Now we're lucky. We're lucky in San Diego where we don't we're not near the fires, although Yeah, feel feel for everybody affected and really appreciate the time, Scott wonderful discussion. And yeah, don't worry, no one. No one's going to yell at you. This is great. I'm already married.

Scott Benner 1:09:48
I don't need to be yelled at by other people. Okay. appreciate that very much. Yeah, I really do. I you know, whenever you have stuff to talk about like this, I love having you on. So thank you very, very much.

Jake Leach 1:10:01
Okay, I look forward to the next day. Our next chat. Take care. Have a good day. Thanks, guys.

Scott Benner 1:10:09
Thanks so much to Jake leech for coming on the show. Thank you to Omni pod dancing for diabetes and Dexcom for sponsoring, please go to my Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. good at dancing the number for diabetes.com or go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Of course you don't have to remember any of those because we go into the podcast app. There's links right there. There's also links at Juicebox podcast.com. If you enjoyed the episode, and you're looking for a way to share the podcast, go to Juicebox podcast.com. Go to the page specific to this episode, copy the link and take it out and share it in the world. I don't know where Facebook, Instagram wherever you talk to people. That would be wonderful if you could do that.

Let me end by saying thank you for all the new ratings and reviews on iTunes for everyone who shares the podcast and all the wonderful emails that I've been receiving. You all are far too kind.

Jake Leach 1:11:00
I'll be back next week.

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate