#1181 After Dark: Black Squirrel

Haley is 28. She was misdiagnosed with T2 but has T1 diabetes. She also has Necrobiosis Diabetica, Ehlers-Danlos and more. Warning: Talk of suicidal ideation, cutting and other issues.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends welcome to episode 1181 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today we're going to do an after dark with Haley who is 20 years old and has type one diabetes she works on a hobby farm was diagnosed with type two, obviously misdiagnosed with type two originally. We're going to have a lot here in this one. So be ready for some talks about drugs, depression cutting some suicidal ideation. But there's a lot more to this conversation with Haley so settle in and we'll get going. Nothing new here on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Or becoming bold with insulin. Get your FREE 14 day trial@aura.com slashed juicebox that's right protection for your online identity and much more. I mean seriously much more credit score's oh my god, it protects your devices VPN, but this thing what it doesn't do. I mean, it would be easier to list what ora.com can't do for you or a.com/juice box get a free 14 day trial. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juicebox. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing together people who are redefining what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Mark, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 28. He's 47. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. And then at the very end of the episode, you can hear my entire mini interview with Mark to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story. Visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box and check out the Medtronic champion hashtag on social media.

Hayley 2:20
My name is Hayley.

Scott Benner 2:22
And you don't know how else to describe yourself other than Haley. That's fine. Yeah,

Hayley 2:27
I guess. No, I'm working mom. And I'm a farmer. So

Scott Benner 2:34
you're a farmer? Yeah. Okay. So you have a job and you're a farmer or your job is farming?

Hayley 2:40
Both? Yeah. Okay,

Scott Benner 2:42
so you work somewhere else in conjunction with the farming? Yeah, I actually work two jobs. Okay. What kind of farm? Is that your farm? Yeah, it's gotten a

Hayley 2:51
lot smaller through the years, but my parents live on property, and we all live on the same property. Okay. So I've just been doing a bunch of turkeys and chickens and

Scott Benner 3:01
stuff. Oh, I see. So mostly poultry. Yeah, yeah.

Hayley 3:06
I do the whole process from hatching them out to butchering them.

Scott Benner 3:09
Wow. And do you sell them locally? Or does somebody like take your stock and sell them somewhere else?

Hayley 3:15
I don't really sell them. You have to have certain licenses to be able to sell poultry. So I will give them away to friends, but I will not sell them.

Scott Benner 3:27
Oh, okay. Wait a minute. So you hold on a second you I like you, you're gonna confuse me the entire time. You you do the husbandry part. And then you raise them. And then you go, Hey, come here, buddy, I guess smack in the head and kill it. And then he cut its head off and pull it off its feathers and then give it away to somebody?

Hayley 3:46
Yeah, more gruesome than what how you described it, but yeah. Oh, it's

Scott Benner 3:49
I was nicer about it than it actually is. Okay. What why?

Hayley 3:57
Um, cuz I actually either cut off its head or I slit its throat. Okay.

Scott Benner 4:04
Yeah. Hey, listen, my my father's gone. And he described that his mom to his dad would get this bonus at the end of his work week. On if I've ever said this before. I apologize. They've given they'd give him a chicken at the end of the workweek. And he'd come home and just kind of toss it over the fence. And then his mom, my grandmother would have to go out and catch it and then wring its neck and and pluck it, then cook it. Oh my gosh. So she would do that with her bare hands because she was. Yeah, yeah, she was a farmer, too. There's no compulsion there. But But my point is this you have a farm but you don't make money with it.

Hayley 4:45
No, I usually have people like buy feed for my birds. It's mostly just a hobby farm. It used to be a lot bigger because I used to have like almost 160 birds. But now I just we just get the eggs.

Scott Benner 4:59
Gotcha. I had turkey for.

Hayley 5:01
Yeah, but normally I'll go and help some of my local farmers and I'll help them butcher their birds.

Scott Benner 5:06
Oh, I see classes. Oh, so you got to transferable skills though. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah, it's

Hayley 5:13
mostly it's really just for fun. I don't make any money off of it. It's anything I lose money. But it's something to keep me entertained. So Haley's

Scott Benner 5:20
crazy clarity. You murder birds for fun. Is that correct?

Hayley 5:24
No, no, I, it's the husbandry that's the fun part. Okay, and also to provide food for someone else. That's the fun part.

Scott Benner 5:34
I was teasing you but okay.

Hayley 5:36
I'm giving them the other people's skills. Like a lot of times, I've had people come up to me, and like, ask me like, Oh, do you know anybody that knows how to do this? And I was like, Yeah, I can teach you. Oh, wow. Nice. I like doing those kinds of things. Because it's people learning how to literally grow their own food.

Scott Benner 5:54
Did your parents make a living with the farm?

Hayley 5:57
No.

Scott Benner 5:59
Oh, this is a generational thing.

Hayley 6:00
No, no. My mom used to live on like an Angus beef farm. But my parents won't actually eat any of the meat that I make.

Scott Benner 6:12
They don't trust you know, they

Hayley 6:14
just feel bad. Really? Yeah, I don't. I've effectively turned my mother into a vegetarian.

Scott Benner 6:24
Yeah, accusing the hell out of me, Haley, let's keep going. Do you have type one diabetes? Were you the parent or someone with type one? I have type one diabetes. When were you diagnosed?

Hayley 6:33
I was diagnosed like, seven years ago. So I was right after my 21st birthday. Okay, I was actually diagnosed with type two. All

Scott Benner 6:42
right. How long did that misdiagnosis lasts for?

Hayley 6:45
Like two years. Whoa, really? Yeah. Well, because I was controlling it with the keto diet. Uh huh. And so like, I got my Awan Steen down to like a 6.2 in three months.

Scott Benner 6:59
So you were honeymooning still you were your body was making some insulin? Yes,

Hayley 7:04
it was making some insulin. But what really kicked it is that I finally I got mono and didn't know about it. And so that really just kind of pushed it over the edge.

Scott Benner 7:15
Do you think we can call this episode Burdur? I think we can. I think I'm going to it's a strong contender in my mind early on. So like murderer but with bird. So burger. You got the joke, right? Yes, I do. Yeah. Okay.

Hayley 7:37
I work like 60 hours a week. So it's not just that

Scott Benner 7:40
you better say something much more interesting in the next 15 minutes, or you're gonna get an episode called burger. 100% sure of that. Okay, so you were misdiagnosed as a type two for all you were managing with like a keto diet, any medication. Right now we're going to hear from a member of the Medtronic champion community. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes. And this is Mark.

David 8:04
I use injections for about six months. And then my endocrinologist in the Navy recommended a pump. How long

Scott Benner 8:10
had you been in the Navy? Eight years up to that point? I've interviewed a number of people who have been diagnosed during service and most of the time they're discharged. What happened to you?

David 8:19
I was medically discharged. Yeah, six months after my diagnosis. Was

Scott Benner 8:24
it your goal to stay in the Navy for your whole life? Your career? It was? Yeah,

David 8:28
yeah. In fact, I think a few months before my diagnosis, my wife and I had that discussion about, you know, staying in for the long term. And, you know, we've made the decision despite all the hardships and time away from home, that was what we loved the

Scott Benner 8:41
most. Was the Navy, like a lifetime goal of yours? lifetime goal.

David 8:45
I mean, as my earliest childhood memories were flying, being a fighter pilot, how

Scott Benner 8:50
did your diagnosis impact your lifelong dream?

David 8:53
It was devastating. Everything I had done in life, everything I'd worked up to up to that point was just taken away in an instant. I was not prepared for that at all. What does your support system look like? friends, your family caregivers, you know, for me to Medtronic champions, community, you know, all those resources that are out there to help guide away but then to help keep abreast on you know, the new things that are coming down the pike and to give you hope for eventually that we can find a cure. Stick

Scott Benner 9:18
around at the end of this episode to hear my entire conversation with Mark. And you can hear more stories from Medtronic champions and share your own story at Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox. That contour next gen blood glucose meter is the meter that we use here. Arden has one with her at all times. I have one downstairs in the kitchen, just in case I want to check my blood sugar and Arden has them at school. They're everywhere that she is contour next one.com/juicebox test strips and the meters themselves may be less expensive for you in cash out of your pocket than you're paying Currently through your insurance for another meter, you can find out about that and much more at my link contour. Next one.com/juicebox Contour makes a number of fantastic inaccurate meters. And their second chance test strips are absolutely my favorite part. What does that mean? If you go to get some blood, and maybe you touch it, and I don't know, stumble with your hand and like slip off and go back, it doesn't impact the quality or accuracy of the test so you can hit the blood not good enough, come back, get the rest without impacting the accuracy of the test. That's right, you can touch the blood, come back and get the rest, and you're gonna get an absolutely accurate test. I think that's important because we all stumble and fumble at times, that's not a good reason to have to waste a test trip. And with a contour, next gen. You won't have to contour next.com forward slash juicebox you're gonna get a great reading without having to be perfect.

Hayley 11:00
No, I really didn't want to do any medication. I wanted to try to do it myself before I had anything intervene. That wasn't myself. Because I've always had like, a lot of health issues, but I've always been like one to push through them myself and not take medication. So honestly, getting type one really hit me hard because that I had to take medication.

Scott Benner 11:21
Yeah. Did they eventually tell you you were Lada. So that's a pretty slow onset. Yeah.

Hayley 11:27
Like go back and forth. But yeah, it would, it would go to the fact that I'm probably a lot of they played around with, like the type one and a half and everything. But I think at this point, I'm really just insulin super insulin dependent. Yeah, you're type

Scott Benner 11:44
one now. Right? So yeah. Any autoimmune in the family or do you have any other autoimmune diseases?

Hayley 11:50
So I'm actually adopted?

Scott Benner 11:51
Oh, me too. So

Hayley 11:53
I didn't have any family history to go off of. So I didn't find out until more recently, in the last like two years when I finally reached out to my biological family. Yeah. But of course, none of them have type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 12:09
Any other autoimmune stuff? You know, I'm

Hayley 12:11
playing around. So I have multiple autoimmune diseases, right? I have diabetes, and then I had necro BIOSes. diamedica. It's like a skin thing. But it's not like your standard blistering skin thing. It just you're literally it's an autoimmune. It's your skins taking attacking itself.

Scott Benner 12:29
I'm still googling Hold on. Wait, say it again? necro necro

Hayley 12:36
or Nbd? Neck row. BIOSIS. Diabetic.

Scott Benner 12:44
Okay. What BIOSIS? Is it? LiPo lipid? dika. I have never lied. Don't read that phonetically. Give me a second. Okay. Uncommon condition related to diabetes?

Hayley 13:07
Yes, it's super uncommon. It's only found on diabetics. So when I actually found out that I had it, the specialist the skin specialist was like, Can we take a picture of it? It's not very common. We'd like to have evidence of it or like, Oh, great. Yeah, thanks. I want a laundry pose

Scott Benner 13:23
with a dead turkey. a skin rash that mostly commonly affects the shins and seems more often and seen more often in women? Is it on your shins?

Hayley 13:33
It's on my shins, but it's also on my hips too. If for some reason I haven't like in more areas than the common. So it's like, again, I want a letter again, I guess.

Scott Benner 13:44
Is the end is that? Wait. It's not autoimmune?

Hayley 13:48
Yeah, it's an autoimmune disease. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 13:50
Okay. Holy hell.

Hayley 13:53
Yeah. And then I have another one that I'm in the process of actually getting diagnosed with like, I know I have it. But I need like clinical diagnosis. It's called it's called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. Oh, sure.

Scott Benner 14:05
The stretchy. Yeah.

Hayley 14:09
It's an autoimmune disease that affects your connective tissue. So you don't create the correct connective tissue.

Scott Benner 14:17
I once had a doctor say, we talking about that. And they said, you know, people can get diagnosed if they want but there's no treatment. He was out there. It was so matter of fact, he's like, so whatever. And I was like, Okay, brother. Oh, so you have a Deal or No, no, no, we I was talking about it with someone wants and he was just making the point. Like, you know, you can get people to get diagnosed that they want to but it's, there's, there's nothing you can do about it.

Hayley 14:41
Yeah, and the crazy thing is, is it actually affects your heart and digestive system as well, because it is the connective tissue.

Scott Benner 14:50
Yeah, so what are you saying?

Hayley 14:52
I'm like super bendy. Okay. But I also have a lot of hip and joint injuries like work and like, put my hip and knee at a place back in. Yeah. Like it's just on a regular basis. Does that hurt? Not anymore. Um, so because of chronic disease, and I've had it for so long. I don't really feel it anymore. Oh, wow. But, but because like if anybody else was in my body, they've been in tritiated pain, but

Scott Benner 15:20
it's just a party trick for you. Yeah, I guess. Good thing. That flexible. Yeah.

Hayley 15:29
But, um, yeah, so I actually started having issues when I was like, 12. And they all just thought it was just like growing pains. And, also, I'm sure I'd have huge feet, like, for my height, like a hobbit. Kinda, I were like, 10 and a half wides for women. And I'm only 530 Hell,

Scott Benner 15:49
you must take an L

Hayley 15:52
pretty much the same issue.

Scott Benner 15:54
Are you serious? When you tried to kiss? Can you not reach each other because your toes are hitting?

Hayley 15:58
No, he was taller than me. But. But Our poor son has big feet now too. I was like, Sorry, dude.

Scott Benner 16:07
That's a good try. But I still think this one's called burger. I haven't interviewed anybody in a few days. And I have like, there was a trip in between. So I feel like very silly right now. I don't know why. And we're doing it at night. I usually do these in the morning when I'm still being serious. Yeah, but but this could go well off the rails. Okay, so tell me a little bit about how you felt when you were younger. And what are you going to do to get a diagnosis? Well,

Hayley 16:36
I guess when I was younger, I tried to I'm very much does I like learning struggles, too. I am very much of like, I'm not gonna let myself stop me.

Scott Benner 16:47
I'm not gonna let myself stop me. That's excellent. Like you tell yourself. Oh, you can't? I gotcha. Yeah,

Hayley 16:54
exactly. Yeah, I never want anything to slow me down, let alone myself. Yeah. So I just persevered through it. And I did soccer. We have a picture of me kicking a soccer ball. It looks like my knees like opposite of what it supposed to be. Like a flamingo. Um, but yeah, so I just kind of grew up with it. And I just dealt with it. I was on swim team, like for like, as a actual, like, almost professional, like a professional. Right. And I did it for like, six years. But then finally, I just had a quick to my joints even though like swimming is supposed to be like gentle, new joints. It's the rotating all the time that really like affected me. So I found I just had to quit. But I've been like going another naturopathic doctors, physical therapy, all different kinds of things throughout my life. My parents really wanted me to succeed. Yeah, so there was a lot of just like when like my learning struggles in the ADHD, and the physical struggles.

Scott Benner 18:02
Yeah, we'll see. You said you had more things you have there, is it URLs then? How do you suppress that? Hilarious. So you probably have that. You've got ADHD. You have type one diabetes. You have the? The patches. Yeah, I don't want to say that word again. Because I think I almost cursed saying that word. It does. I mean, where's that at? Let's look at that again. Yeah, it's lip to the there's the necro BIOSIS. But then it's li P O ID. I see a

Hayley 18:38
Yeah, let the Let the dead code let the day. Yeah. Listen

Scott Benner 18:41
between you me, Haley. I was really afraid. I was gonna say like, and so I just kept stop.

Hayley 18:52
Yeah, so that one is harder to say. So I don't say is that that's a scientific name of it. Yeah,

Scott Benner 18:58
well, it doesn't sound scientific when I say it. So I skip it. Yeah, those would you have anything else?

Hayley 19:03
As of right now? I don't think so. But you know, with with autoimmune diseases, they all come in three and I met three.

Scott Benner 19:12
So it's either you hold here you think you're gonna go to six? Yeah, pretty much. How's your thyroid? Surprisingly, it's

Hayley 19:18
okay. Celiac. No, no, I don't have celiacs. I have a hormone imbalance. It's not like crazy. What

Scott Benner 19:27
does that what does that entail? Well, like I have

Hayley 19:32
higher testosterone than women should. So like I get like, sometimes I get a little bit of facial hair, which is great for a woman. No, you

Scott Benner 19:40
love You gotta love it. Yeah, people. Women are always very excited when they get facial hair and little stray hairs around their nipples are thrilled about to I've noticed you ever get those? No. Oh, good for you. Look at your wedding. Okay.

Hayley 19:55
But yeah, so it's, yeah, it's just weird. I didn't even know they really diagnose was new with it. And so I was going through my medical records after I was diagnosed type one. Okay. I was like, Oh, I guess I had a hormone imbalance.

Scott Benner 20:08
How about do you see any problems with your menstruation? Your periods? Do you have acne stuff like that around?

Hayley 20:15
Yeah, I have pretty bad acne. But also, I've never really like my period is like crazy spot on. Like, I know the day before it's gonna happen. It's crazy.

Scott Benner 20:29
Okay, so not heavy periods or anything like that.

Hayley 20:33
No, no, it's just normal. Interesting. But I also have like, such a high pain tolerance from the Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. So I don't know. But I was like in four days of labor with my son. So

Scott Benner 20:47
wait, I don't understand thought I think was stretchy. It is.

Hayley 20:51
But I had to. I got preeclampsia. Oh, yeah. So he was born two months early.

Scott Benner 20:58
Really? Have you considered giving up?

Hayley 21:03
But it's so true. And that's the thing is it's like, yeah, I got preeclampsia. And like I literally was fighting it the whole time, like trying to make everything perfect. But I've always had like elevated blood pressures. So I didn't succeed. Is that

Scott Benner 21:17
your only child? The your son? Yes. Yeah, that experience may just stop or you just haven't had a chance to try again.

Hayley 21:25
I haven't had like successful.

Scott Benner 21:28
Oh, I say yeah, I gotcha. You're 28. Now? Yes. I did that math, just from the story you told. So people should be pretty freaking impressed.

Hayley 21:40
Well, I'm in person. I remember that correctly, then. Oh, wait,

Scott Benner 21:44
are you maybe you're not 28? I've talked you into believing you are? No, I

Hayley 21:47
am 28? Sure. Yes. But I couldn't remember for sure how long I had had diabetes and stuff. So it was like, ah,

Scott Benner 21:59
what makes you want to come on the podcast? Because

Hayley 22:01
I have all these experiences and stuff. And I had been through a lot. diabetes and everything else. I kind of just wanted to be another voice of, you know, I live in this chaos. And other people might live in it too. And to know that you're not alone, because I know for me for a long time. I felt very alone, because I didn't find out till I was like 21 diabetes, and I had to figure it out on my own.

Scott Benner 22:28
Your family was not helpful at that point. Or you didn't ask them to be

Hayley 22:33
I was moved out at that point. Oh, you had no idea what did how to deal with it. They just freaked out. So I didn't tell them anything.

Scott Benner 22:42
Sweet. So you were on your own 21 you go to college? Yeah,

Hayley 22:46
I did some college. I did. Like it's called Running Start. And it's like, you do college while you're still in high school. Okay. Yeah. So I took on like an 18 credit load, and then I still went to high school and another school. So yeah, I'm a little bit of a overachiever sometimes, or I like to punish myself.

Scott Benner 23:06
Did you finish college?

Hayley 23:07
I have two classes. Both math class, listen.

Scott Benner 23:12
I'm gonna help you a little bit. You can't call yourself an overachiever. And then tell me you still have two classes left to get through college when you're 20. It's because

Hayley 23:20
it's because I got so burnt out from trying to do everything.

Scott Benner 23:25
Okay, so tell me so then let's see. Like, I'd like to know about that. Tell me what happened?

Hayley 23:29
Well, again, I was doing like 18 credits of college. And then I was working, and I was going to high school. And then I also was doing culinary programs to where I went into like, state nationals. Okay. Yeah. So I just, I'm very good at overburdening myself.

Scott Benner 23:47
Is that the ADHD? When did you get that diagnosed, by the way?

Hayley 23:50
Just recently.

Scott Benner 23:52
Tell me what led you to find out that that was the case. Well,

Hayley 23:57
my sisters, my adopted sisters, they were talking to me and they're like, Hey, you should look into ADHD because you have a hard time with these kinds of things. And I was like, Well, okay. And my husband also has ADHD. So

Scott Benner 24:14
why did you giggle like that? You giggle a lot. And I don't know why you're giggling Well, what was so funny there?

Hayley 24:19
It's because it usually people who have ADHD, like, gravitate towards other people that have ADHD.

Scott Benner 24:27
So, okay, why do you think that is? Because

Hayley 24:30
we have the same kind of mindset and understand and can actually keep up with each other.

Scott Benner 24:35
So you follow him when he's kind of jumping around? Yes,

Hayley 24:39
I can keep up with him. But mostly, he can keep up with me because he's more of a quiet, more internalized ADHD brain. Okay, borrow more external.

Scott Benner 24:49
Tell me the difference, please.

Hayley 24:51
So internal would mean that like you have so many thoughts going at once, but you keep them inside and you're very analytical and you're tempted to details like crazy. Whereas nine, I can't keep it inside. And so I'm super talkative and bubbly. And like, jump at different squat like subjects really quickly and say, like squirrel. So it's really hard for me to keep it all in because not only do I have it, it sounds crazy, but you have multiple thoughts in your head. But then also, I can't keep it in my head, it has to be expressed out. And so people get really confused. Okay,

Scott Benner 25:29
so you're saying that you have, like, at any moment, you have two different thoughts going on in your head? Oh, probably more like six? And which one? Are you sharing? How do you decide which one to share with me?

Hayley 25:42
I don't know. I don't really decide it just kind of comes out like so I can't. When I'm talking to someone, you know, you grow up, you look in their eyes and stuff as a sign of respect. Okay, I cannot look at someone's eyes, I have to look or look around them and keep moving. Otherwise, I get distracted. And my thoughts like take over than if I'm actually listening to the person.

Scott Benner 26:05
Tell me why looking at someone I someone's eyes does that. Because

Hayley 26:09
my mind like, is like stop being interested at what it's looking at, like, looking at the eyes without actually like looking at other things around me. It makes my brain really distracted because it's bored with the situation. So it's like, let's think about this now.

Scott Benner 26:26
Okay, so if you're concentrating too hard on somebody, you're looking them in their eyes trying to really concentrate on them. Your mind wants to look around the room.

Hayley 26:33
Yes. And so more. It's more like it's bored. And so it thinks of something else that's internally in your head and then you go like on a tangent in your head.

Scott Benner 26:42
Okay. What if the people are really boring? Maybe it's not ADHD? Maybe you just know really boring people.

Hayley 26:48
Oh, it happens to everybody. So are you jumping

Scott Benner 26:52
around while we're talking? Because I don't find you. You think you are? Yeah, well, I

Hayley 26:58
didn't take my medication this morning. So yes.

Scott Benner 27:01
Just to be fun, or you forgot? No.

Hayley 27:03
Ah. Oh, no, I did. I forgot.

Scott Benner 27:07
The funniest thing you're gonna say the entire time we're talking in case anyone's wondering. I expect nothing funnier than this that have just happened. So you did take your medication today? Yes. I'm not laughing at you. I'm just laughing. It's hilarious. But I want to get back. Hold on. What's the giggling? Are you nervous when you giggle? No, I'm

Hayley 27:28
actually not really a nervous person. I really do. Like speaking like in front of people and doing podcasts and stuff. So like, I've done my own podcast.

Scott Benner 27:37
Okay. Is it wildly successful? Or maybe people are jaded by you? Should I get you off right now?

Hayley 27:44
No, it's just a couple of videos I did on one of my diabetes groups.

Scott Benner 27:47
Oh, are you calling that a podcast? Okay,

Hayley 27:50
I started the podcast doesn't mean that I actually finished it.

Scott Benner 27:53
Nobody does. Do you know, do you know there are 4 million registered podcasts?

Hayley 28:00
It sounds surprising. Yeah. Do

Scott Benner 28:01
you know how many are actually active? I don't know. Yeah, like 40,000 of them. Oh, wow. And active only means at least one episode a month?

Hayley 28:11
Yeah, no, I started doing it. And as many things when you get very common with ADHD, I got distracted and moved on to something else.

Scott Benner 28:20
So are there things in your life that you genuinely want to be doing? That you're not because you've been distracted away from them?

Hayley 28:29
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, it's like, again, going back to the hole that I have to overcome myself. So like, for me the school, like not finishing my college is really like, hard on me. Because I feel like I never finished it. It was a close. It didn't close the book. Do you need huh?

Scott Benner 28:48
Do you need the degree? Could you put it to use?

Hayley 28:50
Oh, yeah, but right now my husband's going to college. But when he's done then I'll go back and finish to

Scott Benner 28:56
How old is he?

Hayley 28:57
He's 28 as well. What?

Scott Benner 29:00
What's he going to college for?

Hayley 29:01
He's getting his BA and his MA in it and cybersecurity. So yeah, I

Scott Benner 29:09
know some kids go to school for that right now. They're nine years younger than your husband and probably a much more attractive hire, but tell him to hurry the hell up. Because he's gonna You're gonna want some money when he takes one of those jobs, you know, and those kids are gonna do it for free. Right? Yeah, cuz they're, they're living with their parents like little like leeches. They don't even need money. All unfair. Well, that's cool. Did he go back to school? Or did he just start later?

Hayley 29:36
So he only has like one or two classes to finish his associates. And he stopped around the same time I did, which is after we got married. How

Scott Benner 29:45
old were you? You got married? We were 24 So you guys both got married and then decided not to go to college anymore? No,

Hayley 29:54
I was trying to finish up my college before we got married. But then we moved to another City pretty far away, and then we just started working a ton. So it just wasn't feasible.

Scott Benner 30:05
I understand. I really don't you make that baby on purpose or no? Yeah, we did a plan. Thank you didn't get distracted in the middle of it decide not to do it. Probably. I'm sorry. Ah, she's not funny. You're just delightful. That's all. Oh, good. I love that. You don't know that you giggle a lot.

Hayley 30:30
You know, I think I've done it for a long time. And I think it's just for like, spaces when I don't have a thought. Then I fill it with that.

Scott Benner 30:38
No, I just what I'm trying to get out because you're making me feel hilarious. And I know I'm not. So like, you're just like you're laughing that you said something horrifying. I forget what it was and then laughed immediately afterwards. I was like, That was interesting.

Hayley 30:50
It's kind of it's kind of a coping mechanism to Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:53
So you just did it.

Hayley 30:54
I know, you're aware when you think about it?

Scott Benner 30:57
Well, no. Are you aware that it's happening or know when it happens? If

Hayley 31:01
not, like, right away, I don't notice that. It's if I look back at it, and I'm like, Oh, I did do that right thing. But that's like my life, and not realizing I do things until later on, like, Oh, I did do that.

Scott Benner 31:14
Because you ever tried not to do it? Like consciously not to giggle?

Hayley 31:18
Ah, no,

Scott Benner 31:20
let's do it. Can we do it? Can we try? No.

Hayley 31:24
It's a coping mechanism, as well as like, filling the space. And also, it's like, for me, I have a hard time expressing like, emotions and stuff, and being like the right point across. So if I laugh or giggle about something

Scott Benner 31:38
I don't understand, what do you mean, you have trouble? I don't have any trouble, like understanding your emotions that you've like, laid out for me so far. Why do you think you have trouble doing that?

Hayley 31:46
I've had that for a long time. But again, being on the medication helps.

Scott Benner 31:51
We really don't hold on a second, do me a favor, don't tell me it's just the thing that's always happened. Explain to me what it is. Like, what do you mean, you can't express your emotions?

Hayley 32:00
So are like I don't understand other people's emotions or reading the room? Well, okay. And so I will a lot of times speak thing and matter of factly. But then they're actually like really deep things. And then I really hardcore Empath, so then I feel it, someone else, like I never want them to feel that way. So I A lot of times will giggle at things in order to like lighten the mood. Because I can say things that are horrible, just a matter of fact thing. But then I get to the whole point of like, Oh, now they feel it.

Scott Benner 32:35
So you don't like it when other people feel the emotions of what you're saying? Yeah.

Hayley 32:40
Right. Because I don't like feeling it. And it's hard for me. So it's

Scott Benner 32:47
expected it'll be hard for them.

Hayley 32:49
I very much don't like people. Like, that's, that's why it took me forever to like go to therapy and stuff just because I don't want anybody to feel like the pain or anything that's going on with me. Because

Scott Benner 33:03
that's what I was masking. Like, are you really trying to protect them? Or are you protecting yourself from feeling badly about how they feel?

Hayley 33:09
So hard question, I think is a bit of both. But I think originally, it would have been the thought of protecting someone else from feeling my feelings. But I think it also is a coping mechanism protect myself. If I really look at it.

Scott Benner 33:23
Give trouble being close to your husband.

Hayley 33:26
I can Yeah. Especially like after we had our son, I had really really bad, like, postpartum depression. So it's been a lot of that I've worked through but kind of got really dark. You

Scott Benner 33:40
were you depressed? Like oh, yeah, like, I'm gonna throw the baby out the window depressed or where we're, you know,

Hayley 33:46
nothing like to him but to myself and like, just the burden of both the guilt of having my son so early. And that I couldn't make well my body to make it happen correctly.

Scott Benner 33:59
Okay. Okay. So when you try to be like, open with your husband, does it not work?

Hayley 34:05
He's very good about reading me. I'm not very good about expressing it. Because again, I don't I'm already feeling these heavy feelings. And I don't want anybody else to Yeah. So it's really hard for me to express those especially if I talk to him about like, kind of a more dark stuff. But don't want to know about those things. Kelly I

Scott Benner 34:28
don't normally ask people this but because of the the direction our conversations and I'm going to ask you What in God's name are you doing while we're talking?

Hayley 34:35
Oh, literally just sitting on a spinny chair and rolling around. Okay,

Scott Benner 34:39
like clicking and popping and like if you told me you were like popping the lid on like, the I don't know, like test strips. I would have believed you. But you're not rolling around. No, I'm

Hayley 34:53
just rolling around in a chair.

Scott Benner 34:54
Do you know futzing you know the word? Oh, yes. Yeah, like me. So my cord is uh, yeah, like touching the cord or tapping your glasses on the desk or something like that probably.

Hayley 35:05
Oh, yeah, probably because, yeah, because I'm very. Yeah, everything has moved.

Scott Benner 35:12
What is this medication supposedly doing for you?

Hayley 35:15
It helps. So I'm also on antidepressants. Okay, so I, they're both stimulants. So the depressants, releases happy stuff. But also

Scott Benner 35:29
you really, you really read that label.

Hayley 35:34
I don't remember the top of the head like right now what it is, but um, the other stuff ADHD meds works with your, the antidepressants to help your body release like dopamine and stuff. But it has a hard time releasing,

Scott Benner 35:50
okay. You went on the antidepressants after the birth of the baby. Is that right? Yeah,

Hayley 35:55
I I should have done it a long time ago. But again, been very much of like, not into medication. Until I'm literally forced into it.

Scott Benner 36:03
Tell me how you felt without the antidepressant?

Hayley 36:07
I guess I can go darker. But um, I I did a lot of cutting and self harm, and try to commit suicide, I think three times now. What ages? I'm just in the last couple of years.

Scott Benner 36:25
Can you tell me like vaguely what the the attempts were like?

Hayley 36:29
The first one was because I had recently gotten my insulin pump. And I was struggling with it. And it wasn't. It would keep failing and stuff. And I felt very, like I finally got this thing that I worked so hard for. I literally had to tell a doctor that yes, I needed. And I wasn't working and I was frustrated. And luckily it has a lock on it that you can't overdose yourself. Right? So that's what stopped it.

Scott Benner 36:58
So when you say you attempted to give yourself like too much insulin like, yeah, we can you look back was your real intention to hurt yourself? Or were you looking for someone to notice.

Hayley 37:11
I was definitely hurt myself because I again, don't share things. So I don't really want people to notice. And it was like super late at night, my husband was asleep. And I just tried to give myself a ton of insulin. But again, the alarms shut it off. Okay.

Scott Benner 37:31
Other times were within thought as well are different ways. Different

Hayley 37:34
ways. There was one more recently when I was at work, and one of my co workers kind of just betrayed me who was a friend, and I went into my truck and I was like about to write a suicide letter and stuff. Like I was just done. Luckily, I had therapy that day. So that really saved me. That's

Scott Benner 37:54
amazing. Hey, well, I don't you weren't trying to get rid of birder but I guess you did it. I can't use that now. Yeah, sorry. I didn't know this was gonna happen. All right, I will start over, I guess. Such a perfect title for a POC. It's okay. Don't worry about it. Ellie, I'll be alright. I don't want you to worry. You see a therapist or a psychiatrist.

Hayley 38:20
I see a therapist. I was seeing psychiatrists just to get diagnosed with ADHD. But now I just see my therapist who also has ADHD. So it works out really well. Or

Scott Benner 38:30
not depending on I don't know, I'm not there to judge it. But what if it doesn't? What if you guys, you're just telling yourself, it's going great. She's like,

Hayley 38:44
No, yeah. Yeah. It's mostly that he can keep up with my brain. So I don't have to explain myself all the time.

Scott Benner 38:51
I'm imagining it's going terribly. And he goes, Hey, this is going great. Don't you have to go? Yeah, then it's over. There's no way there's no one there to just check you and go, Hey, guys. I don't go well at all.

Hayley 39:03
We go on so many tangents of different topics,

Scott Benner 39:07
is what I'm worried about. It sounds like you guys are making a podcast for two people is what's going on?

Hayley 39:12
Well, the funny thing is, too, is he also plays d&d. So we'll talk we'll go on tangents about d&d as well. I think

Scott Benner 39:20
you need to find a better therapist, but that's neither here nor there. Like so. The reason I asked about this is because is there any chance there's something else going on? That's not seen? Is there a chance you could be bipolar or anything like that? So that's

Hayley 39:32
when I went to the psychologist and I they thought I might be bipolar as well. But then they ruled that out.

Unknown Speaker 39:40
How did they do that?

Hayley 39:43
I took some tests, like personality and how I deal with things and it was just rolled out that I when I have supposedly I don't have as enough like swings and personality. Also, I don't get stuck there super long. Okay.

Scott Benner 39:58
So That's interesting. I appreciate you sharing all this Haley seriously. No,

Hayley 40:02
it's so good. I'm, I'm kind of an open book when it comes to like just factual things like, I can turn my things on going through into facts. And then I can actually, like, share them. Yeah. But if I feel the emotion with it, I can't share it.

Scott Benner 40:15
Okay. I mean, I'm looking back again. And you talked about, like, postpartum depression in your notes, but I didn't realize that, like your depression led to like suicide attempts and stuff like that. So I, I was a little unprepared for the direction. But I'm okay. I'm okay. It's,

Hayley 40:35
I think I've been dealing with it for a long time, like ever since probably middle school. But I've again, been very much not wanting to go into medication or share my feelings or anything. And so the being diabetic really hit me hard. And then with my son, it hit me hard again. And so it kind of like pushed everything over.

Scott Benner 40:59
Yeah. When you contacted your birth family, did you ask about the depression?

Hayley 41:04
No, I try not to get into their drama. They're very dramatic. I know. Like my biological mom was only like, 17 when she had me and she was 16 when she had an older sister.

Scott Benner 41:20
Okay. Oh, do you know your sister? Yeah. He also adopted as she stayed with the biological mom.

Hayley 41:27
So I was the only one that was adopted out. And that's another sort of subject. But then I had one. So I had one, there's an older one, and then there's a younger one, like, She's three years younger than me. So yeah,

Scott Benner 41:43
sorry. No, I'm just trying to like, they just piece it all together. That's all. Because, you know, I think that the number of people that I talked to who have like, you know, mental health concerns, and other autoimmune issues, it's not, it's not a low number. You know what I mean? Like when people come on here, and they're like, hey, you know, I've suffered with depression or this or that. They often talk about, like, a lot of other autoimmune stuff. And I just wonder how much of that I don't like, please keep in mind, I'm an idiot. Okay. But like, it makes me it makes me think about like inflammation, and how it might be impacting things that people just never think about. Yeah,

Hayley 42:22
the only the other thing is to for me, I was also born two months early, but she forced it happening. And she was a druggie. Okay, so, so there's a lot of other things that are part of that too.

Scott Benner 42:38
Yeah. Also, what kind of drugs was she isn't the mom? Meth? Heroin? Yeah, that stuff can beat a quiet like depression too. Sometimes, like people are self medicating in ways.

Hayley 42:49
Well, she she was only, like, 16 when she was with her 26 year old boyfriend. Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:57
you're not describing a lot of stability there. Yeah. Right. So I'm just saying maybe she's got something going on as well. How about your sister? Does your sister have any of these issues?

Hayley 43:05
Um, the older one, she was into drugs. Her. Our biological father, like pretty much used her as like a drug meal, and would actually like pimp her out and stuff.

Scott Benner 43:17
Oh, my God. Wait, like sexually? Yeah. Oh, my God. Where the hell do you people live? I got to make a map of places. I'm not going Which one is this? You don't have to say. I was gonna say probably should. It's in the Midwest though. Right? Northwest? Oh, oh, in the rainy part. Yeah. It's hard to live. Yeah. You shouldn't live there. People shouldn't.

Hayley 43:41
Well, I was adopted from like, I again, my dad's a police officer and stuff. So I was adopted to a really good family. But

Scott Benner 43:47
your your birth mother and your adopted family are reasonably close, like in the same state? Yeah,

Hayley 43:53
we're all the same state. My mom actually my adoptive mom. She's my mom. She's been keeping tabs on them all, like through Facebook and stuff. So that if I ever wanted to reach out, then I it was very easy for me to write.

Scott Benner 44:08
Well, you know, earlier I said I'm adopted to and you laughed. I wasn't sure if you laugh because you thought I was going to hear you. Oh, yeah. Sorry. That's okay. Like I was like, I'm adopted too. And you like you laugh and I thought is this nervous laughter or is she laughing? Because she thinks I'm kidding about being adopted.

Hayley 44:27
I didn't hear you.

Scott Benner 44:29
I'm adopted to Haley.

Hayley 44:30
Well, that's good to know. So you understand some of that

Scott Benner 44:33
for me and I don't understand a lot of it to get a lot of that was pretty screwed up. But I understood. Yeah.

Hayley 44:38
Well, I didn't I didn't find out a lot of this until way later. So I like I was very much like, Oh, she was young. And that was so gracious of her to adopt me out to be have a better life. And then, like the things that I've found out with both her like, trying to enforce abortion because I was too far along. Yeah, so she like, tried to do it herself. Oh,

Scott Benner 44:58
with like a stick or what Do we do they're like pushing on her stomach. Oh, wow, what a scientist. Yeah, Jesus. Okay. Sorry. Okay, don't be sorry, Ellie, you're gonna be part of the new uncensored after dark episodes. Congratulations.

Hayley 45:15
I was trying like, I'm like, I don't really cost like anything. So

Scott Benner 45:20
this is good enough. You don't need the cost.

Hayley 45:24
Again, I like I do like it. I can share these things. It's more of a matter of fact. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:28
Yeah. If we sat down and tried to talk real real personally, you'd have trouble saying these things. Right.

Hayley 45:34
Oh, in the beginning, I would still keep it as like fact. But yeah, if I went in deeper, it would interest you. And I then Yeah, probably.

Scott Benner 45:41
Well, I mean, listen, it can't be easy to know that somebody tried to abort you. First of all, that's.

Hayley 45:47
That's a tough one. That's tough. That was yeah, that was hard. Yeah.

Scott Benner 45:50
And even though it's got nothing to do with you, I still don't know how it doesn't make you have like, oh, geez, backfill terribly. Yeah. You know, well, then on

Hayley 45:59
top of that, with, like her having a kid that she kept after me, too.

Scott Benner 46:03
Yeah. You weren't good enough to keep but the other one was, yeah, right. Right. Which is how it feels probably not what happened, right? Yeah.

Hayley 46:10
Well,

Scott Benner 46:10
you know what I mean?

Hayley 46:11
Yeah, they were. So there's three of us that were from the same dad. And then there's one after that's another guy. So but my biological father had like, 16 kids before different women. So

Scott Benner 46:24
it was the super handsome.

Hayley 46:27
No, really,

Scott Benner 46:29
how does that happen? Haley?

Hayley 46:30
I don't know.

Scott Benner 46:34
Just is the drugs part, right? Because like, I'm trying to imagine talking for different women to let me have babies with them when they knew that they had babies with other people, too. Yeah.

Hayley 46:44
I guess he was kind of forceful. Like, at least my biological mom. Oh, wait,

Scott Benner 46:49
wait, sorry. This is not like a consensual thing. Like

Hayley 46:53
it was but like he she kept having kids because he wanted to have kids. And she wanted to get out of it.

Scott Benner 47:00
But it's not a lot of common sense going on a lot of the things that you're saying. That's No,

Hayley 47:04
it's not again. Yeah, it's chaos. It's

Scott Benner 47:08
upsetting to hear it. I mean, it's not. I'm not like shocked or anything like that. But you don't want to think that people are living in these circumstances.

Hayley 47:17
Right. Well, and the thing is to her, she left her parents because she want to be around her parents. But her mom has like hardcore bipolar. narcissistic. So oh, they Yeah. So that's where a lot of that's why when you said that about, like other things. She's been diagnosed with bipolar and narcissistic.

Scott Benner 47:41
Okay, and this is who told me this is your mom's mom?

Hayley 47:45
Yeah. Someone by my biological grandmother. Yeah.

Scott Benner 47:49
Your parents know about all this? Yeah. Yeah.

Hayley 47:52
I've shared everything with them. This is

Scott Benner 47:55
stuff you found out. It's not stuff they found out. Right. Correct. Yeah, that's tough for them to hear to. Do they adopt other kids or just you?

Hayley 48:02
Um, yeah. So I have a younger sister that's also adopted from a different family. That's nice. Lovely. Yeah. And they had like, 10 foster kids and stuff. Well, no kidding. Yeah, they only have one biological.

Scott Benner 48:14
Oh, my God, they have a biological child. They fostered like 10 kids, and they adopted two kids. Yeah. She trying to like get to heaven or something. What's going on there?

Hayley 48:25
Well, um, so they had my older sister, and then years, they were trying and she kept having issues and miscarriages and stuff. And then in the meantime, they just foster kids, because they could they were able to provide that. And then, yeah, and then she, they adopted me, and then four years later that my younger sister

Scott Benner 48:45
seemed like lovely people. That's very nice. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Alright, so hold on. How do you met every once in a while? I think this podcast is about diabetes, you should ask the diabetes question. To me sometimes, I'm like, but how like with this, like, all this that you're describing, like, how are you with your type one? Are you kind of hands on like on top of it? Is your agency where you hoped it to be? Is it something you struggle with? How does that all go?

Hayley 49:16
So right now it's not super great? Because it's like for me, it's really hard to manage multiple illnesses at once. And so it's been kind of put on the backburner when I've been trying to figure out all this other stuff, like I still like in a minute okay, range but not like where I should be.

Scott Benner 49:33
He told me What's okay, right. Like,

Hayley 49:36
I'm consistently in between, like 140 and 180.

Scott Benner 49:46
What's stopping you from doing what you want to do? Just

Hayley 49:48
trying to figure out with mental health and then now this whole thing with ADHD diagnosis and then the researching into the Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, and then we're Getting 60 hour weeks. It's just yeah, it's been a lot. And being a mom, but luckily like my husband's a stay at home dad. Well, he's, he works two jobs too. And the school. That's all online.

Scott Benner 50:14
You guys seem busy.

Hayley 50:16
Yeah, we're prone to kind of showing your schedules probably when we get along so well,

Scott Benner 50:20
I had a pretty chill, I had a pretty chill day. I got up a little late. So here, here's where I'm at. My wife has to travel for business, right, so she left last evening. And then I spent that last night by myself as a little lonely, I have to admit, but that's fine. I lived through it. And then I slept a little later this morning, because I didn't have to get up because you and I were recording at night and I had a lot of like work to do. But I was like, I'm going to sleep a little extra tight up like 10 o'clock, like a king. You know what I mean? And I rolled out of bed and I was like, I'm gonna take care of the dogs get a shower and have something to eat. I didn't even start my day till like one o'clock today. I was like, This is how ballers live. Except there were no like, you know, there were no like scantily clad girls running around or anything like that, or cocaine or not really a baller lifestyle at all. But I just started a little later today. And I got a bunch of work done this afternoon. And then I'm recording with you. I had a turkey sandwich in there somewhere. And, and now I'm after you, I'm going to work more and watch a football game. So yeah, but it's a pretty slow day for me. Usually, I'm up earlier working, like the whole day. It just I was like, let me just let me see what would happen. Like if I live by myself, how would it go? It turns out it would go pretty easy. I would take it pretty easy on myself. But he's got two jobs. And he's taken. And it's school from him. So are the jobs from home as well?

Hayley 51:45
Yeah. So he does one job that for his old job that he had before he went to school. He does their like routing so that he works for a FedEx contractor. So he kind of dictates where everybody's going based on the package load. Interesting. And yeah, so that's what his job is for that. So that's not a ton of hours. But it's a couple hours at night. And then he just started doing a job as they're in it for our church for like their social media and was called anything to do with social media and like, making slides and stuff. So does that

Scott Benner 52:24
making content for them? Yeah, very nice. And that is to watch in the hold yourself at this point.

Hayley 52:31
He just turned to Oh,

Scott Benner 52:33
that's a wonderful age. Have you? Do you worry about diabetes for him? Is that something that's in your head? Or

Hayley 52:39
my son? You know, that's why it took forever for us to like, even get pregnant is because I really was just like I was all down to her adopting. And I because I just didn't want to pass it on to him. Yeah. But, you know, I had a friend of mine who's also diabetic, she said that, even if it happens, you are the best well equipped person to take, like to take care of him and to help him. So I just

Scott Benner 53:09
felt better about it. Okay, that's excellent. The medication you take for your ADHD. Like, what happens if you don't take it?

Hayley 53:16
I get super Spacey. And like, so this is me being bubbly for Ahmed's legend 10 times worse.

Scott Benner 53:25
So without the meds you'd like this would be multiplied for like the kind of jumping around and the giggling and stuff like that. Yeah,

Hayley 53:32
absolutely. Okay. I also I can't concentrate. So like I take most of my medication because of my job that I do. Because I have to be super detail oriented and super, like not distracted. I even I even wear headphones that are for like, their their earplugs but you can still hear out of them. They're just supposed to cancel out outside noise. I wear those so I can not get distracted.

Scott Benner 53:54
Okay. Okay, because any little sound might pull you away, even when you're on and what medication is that? I'm sorry.

Hayley 54:02
I have like eight different medications. You prophy on I think that's

Scott Benner 54:06
for the ADHD. Yeah, it's basically speed, right? It speeds you up, which somehow slows you down. So

Hayley 54:13
I am on a stimulant, whereas what you're thinking of is like, some of the harder stuff that's more of like adding to your body. Yeah, like Adderall? Yeah, Adderall is more of an adding to your body. Whereas what I take help stimulate my brain to produce what it needs to produce. That's kind of interesting. Okay. Yeah, it sounds like one of my friends. He just got on Adderall. Because he found out he has ADHD and his wife was like, Oh, I might have some tendencies at that. I wonder what would happen and so she tried one like to see if I would do anything for her which I don't know why she did that. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 54:52
think you're supposed to but but okay, God, I'm gonna say no, yeah,

Hayley 54:54
she said she like pretty much turned to having like ADHD The brain and was like, how do you live this way?

Scott Benner 55:02
Oh, it actually she doesn't have ADHD. So it sped her up. And she got like, yeah, yeah.

Hayley 55:09
Yeah. And she couldn't call the trade. She had so many thoughts of like different directions and stuff. And she's like, I don't know how you guys live this way. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:16
I mean, listen, everybody I've ever spoken to who has it, it sounds a little torturous to me. You know. And that's even for people who just talk about lightly. It's,

Hayley 55:25
it's kind of like, if you have your computer open, and you have 100 different tabs open, and you're using all of them at once. Yeah, I have a T shirt that says, My life is like, there's 100 tabs open. There's a video playing and I don't have any idea where the music's playing. And, and you know, that's, that's my life. Yeah.

Scott Benner 55:44
Can't find which tab is making the light. Come on. Why? Stop? Yeah, that's an interesting description, actually, isn't it? But it's

Hayley 55:51
a very good description. Yeah. That's

Scott Benner 55:53
really something. Wow. Okay. Do your, your parents that raised you? Did they ever talk about this when you were younger? Or were you just like, did they just think you were annoying?

Hayley 56:05
No, but no. So I've always had like, learning struggles. And I think it's partly due to ADHD. I'm pretty sure. If I really delve into I'd probably have autism too. They kind of go hand in hand. But I've always struggled with learning. And so my mom, most of my mom, because my dad's a sheriff's officer, so he worked a lot. But um, oh, so kind of ironic. Sorry, squirrel. My dad's not only ensures officer, he's a firefighter and an EMT. So I wonder where I get my work ethic from?

Scott Benner 56:38
I saw a black squirrel today. You stuck on squirrel? No, you said it. I was like, Oh my God, how did you possibly use the word squirrel? In a day when I've only spoken to two people and I saw a black squirrel today. And if I don't say this here, no one's ever going to know what happened. So I had to say it out loud. Did you know there are black squirrels? Yes, there are black squirrels. Yes. You don't see them very frequently at all. No. It was like, right out. I was I went to get the mail. And he was like, right across the street from me. I was like, I was on the phone with somebody. I don't want to brag, but I was on the phone with Pietro who is that? He's the first guy to ever get like a like the, like that jumbo pilot's license with type one. You don't I mean, like he really? Yeah, I was talking to him about his blood sugar. I'm sorry for telling people his business. And I was like, ah, there's a black squirrel in front of me. And then we talked about it for a while and I thought I'll never speak about this again. And then you said squirrel just some hours later. So now we can call the episode black squirrel. And we're all set. Yeah. I mean, right. tie it all together. Yeah. I mean, I have to do something. Because yeah, cuz I just, I'm not gonna lie to you. It was the suicide attempts that got me off a burger. But in my heart, that's what this episode is called. And so just so you know, that between you and me if anybody if people ever like you know, that episode is the after dark with Haley. I'll be like, Oh, that was gonna be burger or Bulaga. Yeah, black scruff. I know which one you mean. So anyway, don't feel bad. Seriously. Do you have any depression now? Oh, yeah. Sorry. You were like, Oh, hell yeah.

Hayley 58:14
Yeah, no, if I'm off my meds like you for like two days, I go back to like, trying to cut myself and everything else.

Scott Benner 58:21
The medications keeping the cutting away? Yes, for

Hayley 58:25
the most part unless it unless it like it's, it's pretty much so the medication does for me is that it softens everything. So it's not as hard of a blow. Like if something happens that I can actually like, kind of pull myself back and process it rather than being in it. So if I'm not on the medication, then I can't process it. And then it just concerns me and then then I go into dangerous directions.

Scott Benner 58:52
But with the medication. It doesn't happen.

Hayley 58:54
Yeah, not as much. It takes a while like you'd see something really big to get past it. Okay. medications.

Scott Benner 59:01
Name something that's overwhelmed the medication and made you feel depressed.

Hayley 59:05
Oh, like when my friend from work?

Scott Benner 59:09
Oh, they double cross you.

Hayley 59:11
Yeah, backstabbing. Only that but I found out she was spreading rumors about me for like six months.

Scott Benner 59:17
Oh my gosh. Yeah. And that was enough to make you obviously feel that way even though the medication was happening. Correct. How long so then you go out to your truck, you don't obviously kill yourself. So how long until you don't feel that way anymore?

Hayley 59:31
I think I did cut myself I was in the truck. And I was feeling very, like, considering how my son would life would be without me here. And debating start writing a suicide note and stuff like it was pretty dark. Yeah. And then I went back to work and like I'm just gonna get back to work. I have like, a good like four more hours at work. And I go straight from work to

Scott Benner 59:54
therapy. Therapy. Yeah. So and then you were able to work it out there. Yeah, interesting. What kind of truck I'm just kidding. I don't know why that would matter. Although for some reason I feel like it does. But I don't tell tell me I don't want people to know what kind of car yeah, like, you know, is it an SUV or a pickup? It's

Hayley 1:00:15
a pickup okay.

Scott Benner 1:00:16
I'm fine with it. Yeah,

Hayley 1:00:17
I tried to older Ford's Oh, is

Scott Benner 1:00:19
it a two door?

Hayley 1:00:21
My first one was a two door that I fixed up and like I actually sold for more money that I spent on it. But my, the one I have now is a four door.

Scott Benner 1:00:31
Okay, interesting. I love a pickup truck. I was thinking to get one. I don't know what I put on it.

Hayley 1:00:38
I was gonna keep my older truck but with it only having a bench seat. I didn't feel good about putting Percy did not

Scott Benner 1:00:45
it's probably a smart move. Yeah, I cried. I every time I'm doing something, I'm like, I really need like a truck. And then when I think I should get a truck, I think what would I do with the truck? I'm getting old. Like it would have been more helpful when I was younger. I think

Hayley 1:01:03
I had a Malibu, little Malibu and I was able to fit a catering event for like 200 people in it for the

Scott Benner 1:01:11
butcher, my Carlos put a bush in my car one time.

Hayley 1:01:18
You know, you figure out how to do it. Not always the best way.

Scott Benner 1:01:26
Guys, like do you want to deliver that? And I'm like, I don't want to pay you to drive that across the street.

Hayley 1:01:31
You know, it just teaches you to be resourceful. And how to play Jenga.

Scott Benner 1:01:38
Yeah, there was a car Bush one time. It's okay. It's like one of those situations where if you're at a stoplight, and you know like people are looking and they're like it's a bush that guy's car. And and you think I really hope no one knows me like sees me.

Hayley 1:01:52
Oh speaking or something like that. My there was one time when I went to grab a white birds and I was going to someone else's house with them to do the deed. And so yeah, so I had like eight roosters, five geese, a bunch of pheasants, quail. And what else do I have some ducks on the back of my truck. I had like 10 turkeys. So they're all in the back of my truck. And I had opened the vents so you could hear all the animals and so stop by somewhere and like you hear the roosters crowing and stuff.

Scott Benner 1:02:27
I don't know why you're laughing It's fantastic. I'm laughing

Hayley 1:02:30
because it was so funny about your whole like, Oh, I just had a tree in the back. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:02:35
there's a bush. But yeah, I hear what you're saying. And the my Bush didn't make any noise. I don't do people have noisy bushes. I guess you could get a noisy blush. Right? You

Hayley 1:02:44
could have like the you know, like the Christmas time thing where you put and it's like, gosh, I can't remember what his name is. But you put the animatronic thing, like in your Christmas tree and it talks.

Scott Benner 1:02:55
Oh, what? Like not the fish? Right? Yeah.

Hayley 1:03:00
The actual thing for your Christmas tree? It's

Scott Benner 1:03:02
like the face of a tree and and talks in the tree? Yeah, yes. I oddly, I've seen that. Okay. I guess a bush could talk. Yeah, talking bush. Who knows? But we've gotten pretty far from the subject at this point, Haley, I'm not gonna lie to you, sir. Anything? Is there anything else we haven't talked about that we should have? What else was on your list that we haven't gotten to? I don't even remember my list. It's been so long. No way. You're gonna remember this list. I'm looking here. It says what are some of the things you hope to recover in Europe? So being diagnosed in my 20s misdiagnosis? Type Two, and we've got those diabetes in pregnancy? We haven't talked about that postpartum. Yes. relationship with your child while having issues not really. And adopted. Okay, so what about your relationship with your child? And your issues? You were you talking about, like more of the mental health stuff? Yeah,

Hayley 1:03:55
a lot of the mental health stuff. It's gotten a lot better than it used to, but I was very much like, I felt that I was inadequate. Okay, and that I had to, I wasn't blaming him. I blamed myself. For all that happened. With like being because I was 21 weeks when I went into the hospital no, 27 weeks, 27 weeks when I went into the hospital, and I was there for two weeks. And then he was born at 20 or 32 weeks. So and for four days of that was labor. So So for me, it just it felt like I failed in that in that whole thing was me having to do everything besides myself. Like in spite of myself. So it felt more of like I failed. I didn't I didn't get past my own body to tell it what to do and make it happen.

Scott Benner 1:04:50
Hey, so just not not the baby not making it to nine months felt like a failure. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Hayley 1:04:56
Well, because like I saw when I was pregnant with my son, I got my agency down to an eight. But that's as far as I can get it to go without like causing stress and really causing more issues. So I just kept it at that. And honestly, it was he was pretty healthy. But like he was four pounds, nine ounces at two months early. So he's pretty big.

Scott Benner 1:05:19
Yeah, so he was getting bigger. And you just, there's a lot going on there at the pre account clamp co2. Yeah. So So you couldn't keep your your blood sugar lower and more stable because of your own anxiety. You couldn't take your medication because you were pregnant. Is that right? Well,

Hayley 1:05:35
I wasn't I was on that anxiety medication, because they were noticing that when I go to doctor, I would have this spike in blood pressure, because I'm white coat syndrome and being super anxious about

Scott Benner 1:05:46
it all. So you were able to be on that medication during the pregnancy. Yeah, it

Hayley 1:05:50
didn't really work. But

Scott Benner 1:05:54
he told me three things that are going well for you right now, please.

Hayley 1:05:58
Oh, that's a hard. Like, that sounds really terrible. But it's a hard question. Is it? Yeah. One thing. I got an attaboy at work last week.

Scott Benner 1:06:09
My turkey sandwich was rock solid today. Like it was I smoked the turkey breast and then I cut it up and I put it on a nice piece of fresh sourdough and I had it for lunch. And it was good luck. A lot of you. Honestly, if you ask me what went right today? I'd say that sandwich. I don't have another answer.

Hayley 1:06:29
Well, you've honestly bed. Well, yeah, but

Scott Benner 1:06:31
I'm saying Don't say that your thing is that bad. Like getting a like an attaboy at work is pretty good. You know?

Hayley 1:06:37
Well, yeah. And I've been on the hot seat and my job because of being easily distracted. So

Scott Benner 1:06:43
oh, they're they're telling you like, pull it together? Or you're not gonna work here? Yeah. Yeah, kind of work is that you have to tell me where it is. But like about what do you do?

Hayley 1:06:52
Yeah, so it's a medical supply manufacturer. And I work in the shipping and receiving department. So it's the parts that go into machines that you'll see like at labs,

Scott Benner 1:07:01
okay, you've been sending the wrong parts to the wrong places,

Hayley 1:07:04
quantities or quality issues or whatever, whatever they

Scott Benner 1:07:08
ask for to you set them 15. So

Hayley 1:07:10
I found out later on that I can't like, count. Normally, I have to count with my hands. So like, I have to feel the pieces leading my hand in order to get an accurate count. Okay. So because it's for me, the more senses I use. So like hearing, hearing the piece drop in the cup, and holding it and letting it go. And using my eyes to see it. It's I'm usually more successful with actually getting it accurate.

Scott Benner 1:07:36
Interesting. Yeah.

Hayley 1:07:39
Yeah. So the more senses you use, the more likely you're gonna actually get accuracy. If

Scott Benner 1:07:44
you just throw one in and make a mark on a piece of paper like 1234, then slash for five and keep doing it. No, no, no, that wouldn't work. You would not remember to make the slash

Hayley 1:07:53
I would get distracted and then forget what number was on. Or I would like did I put it into in the cup?

Scott Benner 1:07:59
And that would be the end of it.

Hayley 1:08:00
How about them? Yeah, that would have to restart over. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:08:03
Is there some company right now like holding on to like five really expensive parts? And you were only supposed to send them to and they're just giggling and they're like, I can't believe this is we're so lucky. No,

Hayley 1:08:12
it was mostly what I do now is actually the receiving department. Okay, so I receive in like materials and stuff so they can use it to make the parts. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 1:08:22
Well, I hope that goes well. It sounds like it's going better. I hope that continues like that. Yeah,

Hayley 1:08:27
now that I'm on medication, and actually able to figure out what more were my shortcomings and able to fix them? It's much better. It's

Scott Benner 1:08:35
really interesting. How do you figure that out? Like, are you stuck waiting for someone to tell you?

Hayley 1:08:41
So yeah, so are you mean, like on the end? Like, if I make a mistake there? No,

Scott Benner 1:08:45
I mean, like bigger, like, if you have something going on? I would imagine doesn't feel like that to you. So like, yeah, you know, I'm saying like, how do you know you have ADHD or something like that?

Hayley 1:08:55
Well, I had, because again, I never wanted myself to slow myself down. I would just figure out things in order to make it work. So I'd actually be able to succeed. So a lot of the things like other tools and stuff, they say, like oh, these help you with ADHD. I've already been dealing with them for so long. Because I'm made it up trying to make it work for me.

Scott Benner 1:09:18
I gotcha. Okay, guys. So if you needed somebody to come along and say to you like, Hey, do you know that you are blank? Blank blank, and you go, No, I didn't know that. But now that I know, thank you. Yeah, yeah, it or if it's, you have a trouble with something and you can kind of start seeing it yourself? Well,

Hayley 1:09:35
I guess for me, it's more that I've already found ways to make it work. So I don't notice it myself until someone else like my little sister brought it up to me and said, Hey, you're having these issues. This looks sounds like this. You can do it.

Scott Benner 1:09:49
And that's how you figure that out. Yeah,

Hayley 1:09:51
I said for the most part for me, I just figured out how to deal with it. Wow, that's really interesting.

Scott Benner 1:09:57
I appreciate you sharing all this with me. I really do and it's very A nice way to go out of your comfort zone to talk about this stuff being serious, and

Hayley 1:10:04
I've turned it into a fax thing rather than an emotional thing. So

Scott Benner 1:10:08
if and if I tried to make you like I purposely didn't ask you to dig into your emotions, would it have like, put you into a bad way? Oh, no, because I'm still keeping fax, you wouldn't be able to do it.

Hayley 1:10:19
No, it would literally just because it's the whole paralyzing for me to have someone else feel the feelings that paralyze me. But what

Scott Benner 1:10:26
if we, what if we got into an I started crying? What would happen to you then? Oh,

Hayley 1:10:31
I would turn into like trying to show you the positive side of everything. Oh.

Scott Benner 1:10:38
But you wouldn't be able to see it for yourself. Because we'd be talking about you. If you were telling me the positive side. Yeah. So

Hayley 1:10:43
I wouldn't be able to, like, if you were sharing something I would always like it would automatically I would share something about me and say as a fact of like, I also felt this or something like that. So I'm very much of like, I turn off my own emotions, and my own pain in order to make someone else feel better. What

Scott Benner 1:11:03
happens? But what happens if you experience the emotions? But what if we weren't on your way? Here? You're completely by yourself and you're experiencing them? How do you feel then?

Hayley 1:11:11
Oh, I let it all out. It's like a bottle cap that comes off.

Scott Benner 1:11:15
I just kind of explode. Yeah, do you feel better after that?

Hayley 1:11:19
Depends, either I'll feel better about it. Or I'll go in a deeper depression, because I'm actually forced to think about it. I see. So it's easier for me to just not think about it and move on. I'm very much a person that like, oh, that's inconvenient. But I have things to do. Hence why I also add so much to my work. And everything is because it's easier for me to fill up my time with work and projects or volunteering things or whatever. In order to not feel.

Scott Benner 1:11:47
I say, Wow, I appreciate you sharing all this. I don't I don't honestly know where else to go from here. But it's been really interesting. And I feel like educational i i feel like i've heard bits and pieces of this from other people in the past, but your story is obviously different than theirs. And, again, makes me feel like I heard something new today, which I really appreciate.

Hayley 1:12:10
Oh, good. I like to share, again, like that was part of my whole reason of going on the podcast is sharing what I've experienced and being able to kind of put it in a personal level of understanding. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:12:24
no, no, I mean, we didn't start off like, I didn't start off understanding all this about you. So like, I thought we got through it pretty, like, you know, quickly to the part where you were like, This is all of my story, you know? Yeah. You know, were you not planning on doing that? Or were you waiting for me to find it.

Hayley 1:12:40
I don't ever plan anything. So it just kind of comes out.

Scott Benner 1:12:44
You hadn't thought about it previously, like when you're getting ready to do this, you hadn't thought to yourself, like Oh, I hope this doesn't come up. Or

Hayley 1:12:50
I knew there was things that I wanted to like talk about, like the whole diabetes and pregnancy. And then also, like, the difficulties of getting diagnosed later on in life when you don't have your family to kind of help you out. And also the adoption and everything and having the uncertainties of like, what else do can I have? Because I have no idea what my background is,

Scott Benner 1:13:12
ya know, it's something else. Okay. I'm gonna stay. Thank you. I think this has been terrific. I really do appreciate your time. Yeah, no, I appreciate it very much. I'm gonna hang up with well, you're gonna stay on for me because I'm gonna ask you more about where you live, because I want to know, but the other people they don't get to hear that's not their business. A huge thanks to the contour next gen blood glucose meter. We're sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, learn more and get started today at contour next one.com/juicebox. Mark is an incredible example of what so many experience living with diabetes, you show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes to find you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong, and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story, visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox. Don't forget, we still have marks conversation at the very end. It's a terrific kind of mini episode about 10 minutes long. That goes deeper into some of the things that you heard Mark talking about earlier in the show. You have questions? Scott and Jenny have answers. There are now 19 ask Scott and Jenny episodes. That's where Jenny Smith and I answer questions from the audience. If you'd like to see a list of them, go to juicebox podcast.com up into the menu and click on Ask Scott and Jenny. And now my full conversation with Medtronic champion, Mark. Mark. How old were you when you were diagnosed with type one diabetes? I was 2828 How old are you now? 4747. So just about 20 years.

David 1:14:57
Yeah, 19 years.

Scott Benner 1:14:59
What was your management Is that when you were diagnosed?

David 1:15:01
I use injections for about six months. And then my endocrinologist at a navy recommended a pump. How

Scott Benner 1:15:07
long had you been in the Navy? See eight years up to that point? Eight years? Yeah. I've interviewed a number of people who have been diagnosed during service. And most of the time they're discharged. What happened to you?

David 1:15:19
I was medically discharged. Yeah, six months after my diagnosis. I

Scott Benner 1:15:22
don't understand the whole system. Is that like, honorable?

David 1:15:25
Yeah. I mean, essentially, if you get a medical discharge, you get a commensurate honorable discharge. I guess there could be cases where something other than that, but that's that's really how it happens. So it's an honorably discharged with but because of medical

Scott Benner 1:15:37
reason, and that still gives you access to the VA for the rest of your life. Right?

David 1:15:41
Correct. Yeah, exactly.

Scott Benner 1:15:42
Do you use the VA for your management? Yeah, I

David 1:15:44
used to up until a few years ago, when we moved to North Carolina, it just became untenable, just rigamarole and process to kind of get all the things I needed. You know, for diabetes management, it was far easier just to go through a private practice. Was

Scott Benner 1:15:57
it your goal to stay in the Navy for your whole life, your career? It was? Yeah,

David 1:16:02
yeah. In fact, I think a few months before my diagnosis, my wife and I had that discussion about, you know, staying in for the long term. And, you know, we made the decision despite all the hardships and time away from home, that was what we loved the most. So that's what made it that much more difficult

Scott Benner 1:16:17
was the Navy, like a lifetime goal of yours or something you came to as an adult,

David 1:16:22
lifetime goal. I mean, as my earliest childhood memories were flying being a fighter pilot and specifically being flying on and off aircraft carriers. So you know, watching Top Gun in the ad, certainly a weight was a catalyst for

Scott Benner 1:16:36
that you've taken off and landed a jet on an aircraft carrier,

David 1:16:39
hundreds of times.

Scott Benner 1:16:40
Is there anything in life as exhilarating as that? No,

David 1:16:43
but there there's a roller coaster I rode at. I think it was at Cedar Rapids up in Cleveland Sandusky, and they've got this roller coaster rotation from zero to like, it's like 80 or something, you go up a big hill and you come right back down. So the acceleration is pretty similar. I would say to catapult shot,

Scott Benner 1:17:02
I'm gonna guess you own a Tesla.

David 1:17:04
I don't I I'm a boring guy. I got a hybrid rav4 I get made fun of I get called. You know, my wife says I drive like a grandpa. I'm a five miles per hour over the speed limit person. No more than that. So yeah, in the car. I'm boring Scott. So

Scott Benner 1:17:19
you've never felt a need to try to replace that with something else.

David 1:17:22
You can't replace it. It's irreplaceable. That's what I thought. So up until the point where someone you know, buys me an F 18. Or allows me to get inside a two seater and fly it you can't replace it? How

Scott Benner 1:17:33
did it make you feel when you saw or maybe you haven't seen? gentleman named Pietro has his large aircraft license. He's flying for a major carrier. Now he has type one diabetes. Does that feel hopeful to you? Yeah,

David 1:17:44
it does. You know, when I when I was diagnosed, that wasn't a possibility. The FAA prohibited commercial pilots who had type one diabetes, but I think it was 2017 when they changed their rules to allow type one diabetics to be commercial pilots. And part of the reason I did that was because of the technology advancements, specifically in pump therapy, and pump management. So I don't have any aspirations of going to the commercial airlines. But one of my sons who has type one diabetes very much wants to be a commercial pilot. So, you know, in that respect, I'm very hopeful and thankful.

Scott Benner 1:18:16
Do you fly privately now for pleasure? I

David 1:18:20
do. Yeah. One of my favorite things to do is fly my kids to the different soccer tournaments I have all over the southeast us so last week, my wife and I and two of our boys flipped to Richmond for their soccer tournaments up there and Charlie who's my middle child has type one diabetes, so you know if I can combine flying family and football and one weekend to me that's I think I've just achieved Valhalla.

Scott Benner 1:18:42
So then it sounds to me like this diagnosis was a significant course correction for you. Can you tell me how it affected your dream?

David 1:18:49
Well, I you know, if I guess three words come to mind first, it was devastating. Everything I had done in life, everything I'd worked up to up to that point was just taken away in an instant. And I was not prepared for that at all. The second emotion was, it was scary. I hadn't thought much about life outside the Navy, certainly not life as anything else, but a fighter pilot. And Heather and I were getting ready to move to France, I was going to do an exchange tour with with the French naval air force. So we're taking French classes. So pretty quickly, I had to reinvent myself. And then probably the most important thing at the same time that all that was going on, I had to learn how to how to deal with type one diabetes and how to manage it effectively. The third thing that pops into my mind, I guess, is challenging, you know, new daily routines. I had to establish first with injections and then eventually, you know, through pump management, and then learning how to count carbs and recognize highs and lows, how my body reacts to blood sugar trends based on exercise and stress and those types of things. And my goal at that time, and it still is today is to leverage technology and make sure my habit patterns are effective so that I take diabetes management from the forefront to the background.

Scott Benner 1:19:56
Have you had success with that? Do you feel like you've made the trip? position? Well, I

David 1:20:01
have I mean, I believe in continuous improvements. So there's always more to do. I will say the technology since I was diagnosed specifically with pump management, it's just, it's just incredible. It takes less of me intervening, and it's really done by the pump itself and by the algorithms through the CGM s, and to me again, that that should be the goal for everybody is to not have to focus so much on the daily aspects of type one, diabetes management, you know, we should let technology do that for us. What

Scott Benner 1:20:30
else have you found valuable? I've spoken to 1000s of people with type one diabetes, the one thing that took me by surprise, because I don't have type one, myself, and my daughter was very young when she was diagnosed. I didn't really understand until I launched this podcast, and then it grew into this kind of big Facebook presence. I heard people say, I don't know anybody else who has type one diabetes, I wish I knew more people. But until I saw them come together, I didn't recognize how important it was. Yeah,

David 1:20:59
I think similarly, I didn't know anyone with type one diabetes growing up as an adult up until when I was diagnosed. And then all of a sudden, people just came out of the woodwork, and when CGM first hit the market, certainly within the last five years. It's amazing to me and my family, how many people we've noticed with type one diabetes simply because you can see the CGM on their arm. I mean, I would say, a month does not go by where we don't run into someone at a restaurant or an amusement park or a sporting event or somewhere where we see somebody else with type one diabetes. And the other surprising aspect of that is just how quickly you make friends. And I'll give an example. We're at a soccer tournament up in Raleigh, this past Saturday and Sunday. And the referee came over to my son Charlie at the end of the game and said, Hey, I noticed you're wearing pomp. And he lifted up a shirt and showed his pump as well and said, I've had type one diabetes since I was nine years old. I played soccer in college, I'm sure that's your aspiration. And I just want to tell you, don't let type one diabetes ever stop you from achieving your dreams of what you want to do. And it's the other man was probably in his late 50s, or 60s. So just having that connection and seeing, you know, the outreach and people's willingness to share their experiences. It just means the world to us and just makes us feel like we're part of a strong community. So

Scott Benner 1:22:19
would you say that the most important things are strong technology tools, understanding how to manage yourself and a connection to others.

David 1:22:28
Yeah, technology for sure, in knowing how to leverage it. And then the community in that community is your friends, your family, caregivers, you know, for me to Medtronic, champions, community, you know, all those resources that are out there to, you know, help guide away, but then help help you keep abreast on you know, the new things that are coming down the pipe, and to give you hope for eventually, you know, that we can find a cure. You

Scott Benner 1:22:50
mentioned that your son wanted to be a pilot, he also has type one diabetes, how old was he when he was diagnosed.

David 1:22:55
So Henry was diagnosed when he was 12 years old, was just at the start of COVID, we are actually visiting my in laws in Tennessee, we woke up in the morning and he had his bed. And several years before that, we had all four of our boys tested for TrialNet. So you know predictor of whether or not they're going to develop type one diabetes, and whether or Henry and one of his brothers tested positive for a lot of the indicators. So we always kind of had an inclination that there was a high degree of possibility he would develop it. But we always had at the back of our mind as well. And so when that event happened, at the beginning of COVID, we had him take his blood sugar on my glucometer. And it was over 400. And so right away, we knew that without even being diagnosed properly, by endocrinologist that he was a type one diabetic, so we hurried home, to get him properly diagnosed in Charlottesville. And then we just started the process first grieving, but then acceptance and, you know, his eventual, becoming part of the team that nobody wants to join.

Scott Benner 1:23:58
How old is he now?

David 1:23:59
He's 15 years old. Now,

Scott Benner 1:24:01
when's the first time he came to you? And said, Is this going to stop me from flying

David 1:24:07
almost immediately. So like me, he's he always had aspirations of flying. In fact, he out of all four boys wanted to be in the military, that was a difficult part of the conversation and maybe something that we don't talk about as a community. But there are some things you cannot do as a type one diabetic, and that's a hard fact of life. And unfortunately, joining the military is one of those hard and fast things you cannot be you cannot join the military as a type one diabetic. So it was very difficult for him and for me and my wife to get over. Then we also started talking about being a commercial pilot. And so I saw that same excitement in his eyes because like me, you know, he can be an NFA teen or a 737 or a Cirrus SR 20 That I fly and be just as happy. So he still has that passion today and still very much plans to eventually become a commercial pilot.

Scott Benner 1:24:53
I appreciate you sharing that with me. Thank you. You have four children, do any others have type one.

David 1:24:58
They do my oldest When Henry has type one diabetes and my middle son Charlie has type one diabetes as well. The boys are twins. The oldest two are twins. One has type one diabetes, my middle son, who is not a twin has type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:25:11
I see. Is there any other auto immune in your family? There isn't I'm really

David 1:25:15
the only person in my family or my wife's family that we know of with any sort of autoimmune disease, certainly type one diabetes. So unfortunately, I was the first to strike it rich and unfortunately, pass it along to to my sons

Scott Benner 1:25:30
with celiac thyroid, anything like that. Not about nothing. We're

David 1:25:34
really a pretty healthy family. So this came out of nowhere for myself and for my two sons. That's

Scott Benner 1:25:39
really something. I appreciate your time very much. I appreciate you sharing this with me. Thank you very much.

David 1:25:44
Anytime Scott,

Scott Benner 1:25:45
learn more about the Medtronic champion community at Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or by searching the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way. recording.com

---

Please support the sponsors

Learn more about Medtronic Diabetes - sponsored

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#1180 Give a Penny, Take a Penny

Too much in this episode to list. Michael is 25 and has had type 1 diabetes since he was 7 years old. 

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1180 of the Juicebox Podcast

Hey everyone, I'm back today I'll be speaking with Michael He's 25 years old has had type one diabetes since he was seven. Michael also has been a Lago Hashimotos, ADHD, anxiety and depression. We're going to talk today about Michael's experiences in college boarding school, how he's learned to be more present, and a lot more. While you're listening. Please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. If you're looking for a way to protect your finances, your identity if you need a VPN you're looking for aura you know those little ads you've seen with Robert Downey Jr. You know, Iron Man, right? Or a.com/juice box use my link you can get a free 14 day trial of ORA don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com If you're looking for community find that Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, we're coming up on 50 to one oh no, we got like over 50,000 members. That's crazy. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Dexcom G seven made for all types of diabetes Dexcom G seven can be used to manage type one, type two, and gestational diabetes, you're going to see the speed, direction and number of your blood sugar right on your receiver or smartphone device. dexcom.com/juice box Have you been experiencing the fear of missing out on Omni pod? Foo? If you haven't, it's easy to get rid of. Omni pod.com/juice box that's right. This episode of the podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod five. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by ever since the ever since CGM is more convenient, requiring only one sensor every six months. It offers more flexibility with its easy on Easy Off smart transmitter and allows you to take a break when needed. Ever since cgm.com/juice. Box.

Michael 2:30
Hello, my name is Michael and I'm 25 years old. And let's let's get started again,

Scott Benner 2:39
it's a perfect start. Sometimes people get confused and think they have to tell me their whole life story in the first 30 set. Yeah, Michael, you're 25 you have type one?

Michael 2:46
Yes. One.

Scott Benner 2:48
How old? were you when you were diagnosed?

Michael 2:49
I was seven. So it's been 18 years. Okay.

Scott Benner 2:53
You're 25 you're diagnosed me you were seven? And do you have anything else going on besides type one?

Michael 3:00
I've got I think before the diabetes, I was diagnosed with vitiligo when I was I think around the age of four or five. Okay, and then the diabetes at seven. And then I've had Hashimotos for I don't know how long I don't really remember when I started taking the medication for it. But I just got confirmation a few months ago that I indeed had Hashimotos I only thought I had just hypothyroidism. Right.

Scott Benner 3:30
But they said it's autoimmune. Yeah. Did they find the lumps on it? Is that what they did? No. We

Michael 3:37
did the the antibody blood bloodwork. Okay.

Scott Benner 3:40
Okay, what prompted you to do the bloodwork did because it didn't change the management at all right?

Michael 3:45
No, no, nothing really changed. I think it just, I just wanted to know for sure. Because I don't think I ever got an answer from previous doctors. And because I hadn't really my medication like the amount of levothyroxine I've been taking has stayed the same since I've been taking it. So I was like, Maybe I should see if, you know, maybe I need to go up and maybe it's, you know, if it is autoimmune, that means that's slowly getting worse and worse. So well, I just wanted to see if that was the case. Where does your TSH stay? Last I checked, which was a couple months ago, it was like the high twos. So not terrible. You

Scott Benner 4:25
could stand a little more maybe? Yeah, you know, it's sometimes good doctors. Like even if they can't go up a full pill. Some doctors will just tell you like, Listen, this is not me telling somebody what to do now. Yeah, but it could be as easy as an extra pill once a month. You'd be surprised how they can manipulate it like the ones that really understand the dosing of it.

Michael 4:47
Yeah, that's what I've been last. Last time I went to the Endo. i He was just like, I already I already had enough of like my 50 milligram pills. He's just like, I don't want to have to have you throw those away. So just every other day take two and so that's what I've been doing. If I remember to take it in the morning

Scott Benner 5:06
gotta remember Michael Don't Don't Don't make me parent util I got enough going on here. Okay. Okay, so vit a Lago type one Hashimotos.

Michael 5:18
I mean, that's pretty much it and autoimmune. Bad got. Yeah, no, I mean, considering Yeah, not bad at all. Yeah. And I don't really have any, like adverse effects from the vitiligo, it's just, it's not really in any super visible parts. So it's not like I really have to worry about sunburn, or it's not really and it's like, I'm obviously very white. So like, it doesn't really,

Scott Benner 5:43
yeah, I'm looking at you today. You're already a fairly pale person. So

Michael 5:48
yeah, and I think it is going around my eyes a little bit, but you can't really tell because of our glasses most of the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 5:54
Honestly see the dark circles under my eyes? I maybe it'd be great if I could. Could I just get a little right. I guess you don't get to pick where it goes, right.

Michael 6:02
No, no. I mean, yeah. I mean, it'll just kind of spread where it wants to go. Yeah,

Scott Benner 6:07
that's a shame. I could use a I don't want to wear makeup. But there are times I see myself in photos. And I'm like, am I a person who has to wear makeup? is just so dark? Oh, my gosh. Well, let's talk a little bit about it then. So what do you remember about your diagnosis? Or do you not? I

Michael 6:24
remember, it was in August of, I guess what? 2005 I remember that summer, just, I was going to the bathroom a ton. I mean, like the typical, like using the bathroom a lot drinking tons of water. That was wetting the bed, you know, at seven years old, which isn't, you know, typical. And like, I specifically remember, we went to Walmart one time. And before we left, I was like, I gotta use the bathroom. And then within like, the 10 minute car ride to go back home. I was about to pee my pants again. I had to like, you know, the car was basically still moving, hopped out the car went went in the house and, and use the restroom. And so that went on for I don't know, maybe like a month or two before my parents were like, there's something. There's something up and my my cousin was diagnosed with type one, like, four or five months before I was really okay. And he was like two years old. I think so pretty young. And so they had some idea that like, maybe this is, maybe this is what's going on. And so they went in for the blood test. And my blood sugar was I think it was like in the seven hundreds.

Scott Benner 7:34
Oh, god. Yeah, that's that's pretty. You said a month at least the urinating was going on? Right.

Michael 7:39
I mean, from what I can remember, my memory isn't great. So I think it went it went. It went on for a good, definitely a couple of weeks. Okay.

Scott Benner 7:50
Yeah. And so your parents kind of recognized that because of your cousin, do you think or I mean, they just recognized in general, something was up. I think

Michael 7:59
at first, it was just some things up just in general. I haven't really asked a lot of specifics about like that that time. That's just what I remember. Okay.

Scott Benner 8:10
And there's some stuff here and your note to me, that I think of is autoimmune related. So kind of tell me about that. Because you said very specifically, you're like, well, that's the end of those. That segment of my concerns, but you have others, right? Yeah. You want to share them? Yeah, I've got or do you want me to?

Michael 8:29
Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, if you want to, I don't really remember what I what I wrote down. Okay. Well, it sounds like almost a year ago,

Scott Benner 8:35
I have here ADHD? Oh, yeah. Is that diagnosed?

Michael 8:40
Yes. Yes, it is. And it's a recent, like, within the last, like, two years or so?

Scott Benner 8:46
Is that a thing you think you've always dealt with?

Michael 8:48
Yeah, I think so. I think it's just something that I mean, it's, you know, maybe presented itself in a different way. When I was a kid, you know, I found ways to deal with it. And, I mean, I'm not saying that my parents like didn't recognize it, but maybe they just didn't know that, you know, like it because it wasn't the kid that was bouncing off the walls. And like, you know, I was a very quiet kid. And so I think that they were just like, well, that's, that's just not it.

Scott Benner 9:12
You know, when you look back, how does it feel like it impacted you?

Michael 9:15
I think I mean, paying attention in school. I mean, I was not a good student, pretty much all throughout until I went to college, until I got to, like, take classes that I like, actually wanted to take. Just like couldn't pay attention. I mean, my handwriting is terrible. It's like, couldn't I mean, taking notes on top of terrible handwriting was just like, I couldn't read anything, because

Scott Benner 9:35
you don't pay attention while you're writing. To what you're ugly.

Michael 9:39
Oh, I'm writing so fast. I'm trying to keep up that I'm like, Oh, this is and it's sideways. And it's, it's all blending together.

Scott Benner 9:45
I lose the interest while I'm writing.

Michael 9:48
Yeah, yeah. I'll start writing a list. I'm like, I don't I can just do this. I'll just remember and then I don't

Scott Benner 9:54
remember when I'm handwriting by the way. Like I just had to write something pretty voluminous. As for the internet, and I can sit down and, like pay 100% attention to it for as long as it takes. I don't have ADHD, like, like, I can just sit down and do my thing. But I am not interested in things I'm not interested in. That's for certain. Yeah. And I swear to you while I'm writing, while I'm making the letters with my hand, I'm like, Ah, and then I'll just squiggly line it, because I've just already annoyed that I've, I've spent this much time with it. Yeah. So I think sometimes those things can be a mixture, you know what I mean? Like, yes. And yes, maybe you have ADHD? And you do, but like, is that part of it? Or is that just who you are like to me like, like, it's hard to try to pick through all of it and try to figure out as my point. Yeah,

Michael 10:44
no, I'm constantly thinking back on all these like, little little things that I'm like, oh, that's just something that I did. Which is like it like it is, you know, it's not, you know, it's not like, if I didn't have ADHD, I wouldn't have all these other things that I'm, you know, that make me who I am. But just like, all the little things, the more I think about it, and like this is all starting to, you know, the pieces are coming together. And it makes sense, right? This

Scott Benner 11:10
episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the only CGM you can take off to get into the shower. The ever since CGM ever since cgm.com/juice. Box. Well, I mean, sure, you could take the other ones off. But then you'd waste the sensor and have to start over again. But not with ever since ever since is a six month were implantable CGM. So if you want to take a shower without anything hanging on, you pop off the transmitter jump in the shower, when you get back out, put it back on, and you're right back to where you started. Come to think of it. You could do that whenever you wanted to. Maybe it was your prom night or your wedding day. Maybe you just don't want the thing on for a little while. But you don't want to go all through the hassle of taking it off and having to restart it and you know, starting back over with like wonky numbers and having you know all that that goes with it when you take off the CGM and put it back on Oh, but you don't have to do that with the ever since CGM. Because ever since is the only long term CGM with six months of real time glucose readings. This gives you more confidence, more convenience and flexibility. The Eversense CGM is there for you, when you want discretion, a break, or maybe just a little adult time. Ever since cgm.com/juice. Box, pop that transmitter off, pop it back on, you're right back where you started without any wasted devices, or time. How does the ADHD stop you from doing the things or doesn't stop you from doing the things you want to do? I

Michael 12:43
mean, I forget a lot of things. I mean, a big one is I always I would I mean I still forget to like Pre-Bolus You know, and it's been, you know, 18 years, and it's like, no matter how much I think about it, I just I'll just forget. And just like it's that stuff where it's just like, This is my you know, this is for the sake of my health and you know, safety as a person I will not remember. Or like taking my my medications in the morning or remembering, you know, not being able to leave for work on time even though it's like the same time every day. I know what to expect. I don't play plan ahead. Sometimes.

Scott Benner 13:24
Yeah. Okay. Next here on your list is depression. So is that is that clinical depression is a diagnosis. It's something you manage with medication or how does that impact you?

Michael 13:34
Um, yeah, it was it was diagnosed and it's, I was on a few other medications. I think, while I'm still taking one, I can't remember what it's called Bupropion. I said, Oh, that's that's the generic I think it's like Wellbutrin, Wellbutrin. Okay. So I've been taking that for maybe like two years or so. And I think that also helps with with anxiety and it's supposed to have some minor assistance with ADHD, which I'm not sure if it if it really it's hard for me to, to notice some of those things. Sure. But yeah, I take that and that it helps, I think, and, I mean, there's a lot of other things that that help that aren't, you know, medication. But it does, it does help. It's not really as bad as like, ADHD or anxiety. Where did you first see that your life? I think, probably starting in high school and college, I think just being more on my own, because I went to a boarding school for high school. So I was, I mean, not on my own, but I mean, I was living, you know, in a dorm with another kid that I didn't know at 13 and it was, you know, trying to deal with school. You know, being a bad student on top of, you know, doing being a pretty strict boarding school was difficult. Hold Up first,

Scott Benner 15:00
how did you end up at a boarding school if you weren't, like I think of boarding school is like a place where you send like motivated academic kids to flourish. Or maybe they're also places where you send kids who don't pay attention to try to get them to pay attention is that the other side of it? That's not

Michael 15:13
what it was, for me at least, that's how I, that's how I remember it. When I went there. My, I think all the public school that I would have gone to where I used to live, wouldn't have been great, I think. And so I, my brother went to the same high school. And so I think, you know, I maybe I had the illusion of choice to go there. And so I had, I had it in my mind that I did want to go there because like, Oh, this is cool. You know, it's like college, but earlier. And so it wasn't, it was just a, it's like a college prep, high school. So it wasn't anything specific. It wasn't like, like a military academy, like some of the other boarding schools in the area. And it was co ed. So it wasn't like, you know, boys only or anything. So

Scott Benner 16:00
when you get there, the experience is not good for you. I mean, it was

Michael 16:04
it was very exciting. But it was stressful. Because there was like freshmen, you know, you have to get up every morning to go to the office, like sign in to breakfast and like, you know, because they want to make sure you're getting up and getting class on time. And, you know, living with somebody else who isn't really your friend, you know, and just being kind of monitored, almost, you know, 24/7, kind of and, but I overall I really enjoy the experience. Okay, because I'm not a I'm not a rule breaker by any means. So it wasn't hard for me to follow the rules. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 16:44
would I think I'd be terrible that I immediately be like, What do I gotta say, I don't have to sign it for breakfast. That sounds ridiculous. I'm not doing that. I bet you'd get me at the very first thing on the very first day. But did you find like, so you think that's where your depression started to grow, though?

Michael 17:00
Maybe I think just like, kind of, you know, being less alone. And it's not like, I'm not a really

Scott Benner 17:10
social person, either. Oh, okay. So so then there's a lot of time in the day, where it's very solitary for you. Actually, not

Michael 17:17
really, which is kind of what what helped, because since it was it was a very small boarding school about 200 students. And so you kind of did everything with all the other students, everybody knew each other, which was nice. Okay. And it was an international school. So there were kids all over the world from all over the world, which was I really enjoyed that. I think, just in addition to the ADHD, I mean, obviously, there they go hand in hand. And so like being just, like, stressed out about schoolwork, and like, you know, why am I even? Why do I have to learn this? Why, you know, why is it so hard for me to learn this? No, why can't I get this right kind of feeling? Was Was there a lot that how

Scott Benner 17:57
does the depression, the depression manifest itself with you?

Michael 18:01
I think it's just like, I mean, it's not really anything super specific. It's just kind of like an over overarching kind of like, I don't, I don't feel great. No, it's not like necessarily sadness. But it's just kind of like a, I don't know, like, what am I? What am I doing? Why is this not? Why isn't this working?

Scott Benner 18:20
So did you have that, that overall gloom feeling that some people describe the Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast, and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warmup time, that's right from the time you put on the Dexcom g7. Till the time you're getting readings, 30 minutes, that's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period, so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable, and light. These things, in my opinion, make the Dexcom g7. a no brainer. The Dexcom g7 comes with way more than just this. Up to 10. People can follow you, you can use it with type one, type two, or gestational diabetes, it's covered by all sorts of insurances. And this might be the best part, it might be the best part alerts and alarms that are customizable so that you can be alerted at the levels that makes sense to you. dexcom.com/juicebox links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com to Dexcom and all the sponsors. When you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. You know, if you dream about walking past the doorknob without getting your insulin pump tubing caught or fantasize about jumping into a swimming pool without having to disconnect from your pump first. You may have FOMO fear of missing out on Omni pod. I know you wish you could wear any outfit you want with that to pump that you have button doesn't fit everywhere. Not like an omni pod would. The good news is you don't have to suffer from food move any longer, all you have to do is go to my link, Omni pod.com/juice box, I see a lot of people in my private Facebook group talking about their love of on the pod five, you may have seen those conversations as well, if you've had you found yourself thinking I'm missing out, you don't have to miss out any longer Omni pod.com/juice box head over there now read all about the Omni pod five, and get started today. Just everything feels like a rainy day all the time kind of thing. Yeah,

Michael 20:31
I mean, it wasn't anything until after, like, being in school helps because I was so busy. So I didn't really have a lot of like time where I could just do something like and or like, and do nothing, like there wasn't that much opportunity to do nothing. Same thing with college, like just so much work. And so it was more like after college, that things were like, you know, Okay, I gotta find a job, I gotta, you know, we got to do all this other, you know, responsibilities of, you know, living on our own. And I was able, I am able to kind of shake it off a little bit easier. Now, that's because of the because of the medication or it's because I have no more hobbies now or, or something. But so

Scott Benner 21:23
as you saw when you were busy as a younger person, it wasn't too bad. It was there. Get out of school, and the new pressure. I mean, finding a job and feeling like you have to take care of yourself for the rest of your life. All that stuff. That's there. You also you're managing your diabetes by yourself. When you're 30. Morning school. That's tough. Yeah,

Michael 21:44
yeah, that was tough, because I was never really great. managing it. To begin with, I was kind of pretty much on my own. Not on my own. But I was I was taking it on pretty much right away from when I was like eight or nine. Okay, I kind of did everything. Mostly on my own. I couldn't do the pot, the pump injections by myself at her too much. I was too scared to do that. But like, you know, giving myself insulin at school and stuff. I did that all by myself. I didn't go to the nurse or anything. And so that so that and not being great at it, and then being at school by myself with no one else who has type one. Not really anyone to like to talk about it. Yeah. Or to like explain, like, why this is hard to that. That was a big part of it to

Scott Benner 22:33
come from a big family.

Michael 22:34
I've got one brother, he's 10 years older. And I've got nine cousins. Pretty much all my family that's in the US is on my mom's side. And it's decently sized. It's probably about like 20 people. But that's pretty much it. And then I've got some some distant and like my grandparents live over in Sweden.

Scott Benner 22:57
But oh, that's your background? A lot of autoimmune there. Yeah, yeah. About that. Okay. So your brother's 10 years older than you because I was trying to imagine. I'm not judging anybody. But I was trying to imagine like, where, how do I if I'm your parents, like, how do I make the leap and descending my 13 year old type one off to school by themselves? But they have a different sensibility than I do. They're from? They're from a place where that's pretty common.

Michael 23:25
Yeah, well, I mean, my, so it's just my dad is from Sweden. My mom's from just from the Midwest. And, and so and he, he's lived in the US since he was, like, 19, or 18. I don't I don't think that was really the case. I think it was just they thought I was taking good care of it. By myself, you know, but I would, you know, they don't they didn't know the whole story. You know, they weren't necessarily checking all my records. I mean, they would go with me to the doctor and see, not only are your numbers aren't great, but my agencies were never terrible. So I was kind of, you know, barely, you know, coasting through,

Scott Benner 24:04
right. But you say I'm trying and they believe you and then it kind of just gets pushed on to the next appointment.

Michael 24:08
Yeah, or, like, you know, I would, you know, they would see that I would, you know, or like a few instances, they would pick me up from school. And then I would realize getting into the car that four hours ago, I didn't dose for lunch, you know, and then I would dose and they'd hear the pump clicking any like, oh, did you forget and like, like, No, this is for something else. And you know, that would and then so then you know they would get upset or you know, or angry with me and so then I would feel bad because I forgot

Scott Benner 24:38
that it just compounds when you talk about that even now at your age now. You forget to Pre-Bolus Does that does that mean like you're literally in the kitchen cooking, and it just never occurs to you and then you sit down you think oh my god, or is it that you're like you're not thinking about food at all. Then you just decide to eat and jump right into food like that question makes sense. both. It's

Michael 25:02
both of those. So like, if I'm cooking, and it's like the foods right in front of me, and I know when it's going to be done. I know when I'm going to start eating, I'll get through the meal completely. And I'm like, I didn't, I didn't do anything. I don't even know what my number is not

Scott Benner 25:14
even before. Okay, like, you've just don't have diabetes, when it comes to food when you forget. There

Michael 25:19
are there yeah, there are a lot of moments like that, where I'm like, I totally just am not aware of it for you know, maybe it's a half an hour, hour at a time. And it's like, I know, it's like, in the back of my head is there. And it's like, you know, I have I have a Dexcom I have, I have the glucose lights in my inner house. So I can see everything. It's right in front of me, but I just, it just totally just blows right past doesn't

Scott Benner 25:41
prompt you at all. And it's not apathy. Right? Like, it's, it's a thing that when you're talking about it, you're disappointed that it's not happening. It's not like you're like, I don't care. It just isn't happening.

Michael 25:52
Yeah, like, I mean, sure, there are some points where I'm like, I know, I can't deal with this right now. And it's like, but that only happens if it's like, you know, three in the morning, my blood sugar's a little high on like, I can't, I don't even know where my pump is, like, it's downstairs or something I don't. Like that'll happen every once in a while. But it's never like, I don't care. I don't care if my blood sugar's high, I don't care if I'm low, it's like, I know that if it's high for long enough, I'm gonna feel like, you know, crap for, you know, for like, for sometimes until the next day,

Scott Benner 26:22
I went Arden was home from college recently. It just something I forget what it was, honestly. But I had the feeling like we should test her blood sugar in the middle of the night. And I went into her room. And I was like, I'm not going to wake her up, I'll just do it. And I couldn't find her bag. It was just nowhere. And the next thing I know, I'm like, I'm in the kitchen in my underwear looking around. And I'm like, it's here under something. And I all I could think is, how could she go to bed without this? But then I listened to your perspective. And I was like, what's easy, right? Because, I mean, you don't want to deal with it all the time. You don't want to always be thinking about it, you know? So, I mean, I got it in the moment. But what you just said made me think of that, that situation again, just the like, how, like, I was like, I don't understand how you could come upstairs without this and lay down like what if, what if you need it? And she just doesn't see it the same way. You know? It's interesting. I mean, not to say that nine times out of 10 The bag is not right there. It because it is but the one time that was and I was like oh my god, like I was incredulous. I was like, how could this possibly. But you hear that? You're like, yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah,

Michael 27:27
I mean, I do that with mean with all kinds of things. I mean, it's not just you know, to be like all like, you know, wandering water all day. And I'm like my water bottles full. Nice ice cold water right next to me. That's just like, it does not come across my mind.

Scott Benner 27:41
But you think that's ADHD?

Michael 27:44
I mean, I think that has something to do with it. Because it's I think the type that I have is inattentive. ADHD, and you know that like they don't call it add anymore. I don't think it's like inattentive ADHD. And so it's just like, you're not, you're not always able to, like, focus on what's directly in front of you what you're exactly focused on, right in the moment, it's hard for me to focus on things that aren't right in front of me, like, you know, the the next meal the next, like, f5 to get to work, but like thinking a few hours ahead of time. It's like, it's it can be difficult. I'm

Scott Benner 28:16
not discounting your experience, but I feel like you're, I feel like you're describing everyone on the planet. So yeah,

Michael 28:22
no, no, no, yeah. I'm not saying Yeah.

Scott Benner 28:26
If everybody if everybody right now who didn't drink as much as they meant to today, could raise their hand wherever they're at in their car. I think I think everyone listening is now not holding on to the steering wheel anymore. So yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know, I do beat yourself up about it. With the diabetes

Michael 28:42
stuff I do. Because it's like, it's like, sure, I don't have really any. I don't have any, you know, complications or anything. Really, I haven't really noticed anything major. But it's like, I know that it's going to catch up. If I if I keep doing this. And it's like, I'll do everything right for like two days. And then, you know, if I forget one time, then it's like, the cycle is broken. And it's, you know, it's really hard for me to get back into it. Does any sort of routine

Scott Benner 29:09
is difficult. What's your agency right now?

Michael 29:12
Last time, it was a couple months ago? 6.1 No, it's

Scott Benner 29:16
amazing. And what about your variability? Like, what's your standard deviation? You know, probably

Michael 29:20
a lot. I bounced around a lot. Okay, it's so

Scott Benner 29:25
as is and that's the part you're where you're more worried about is that if you could just remember to Pre-Bolus You wouldn't jump up and you wouldn't be bouncing around and doing all that stuff. Yeah,

Michael 29:32
yeah, it's a bouncing around. I just don't I don't like having to chase that all the time. I mean, it's not constant. Like when I'm at work, it's not really bouncing around that much. Unless my you know, the pods on the last last day and it's not working very well.

Scott Benner 29:47
Okay. I know I take all your points and I mean, although look even a bouncing six one, we don't want you bouncing but man, you know, you deserve a lot of credit. That's fantastic.

Michael 29:58
Yeah, and Well and that's mostly before that it was like 7.8 like a couple of months before that horrific and that was because I got on the on the pod five

Scott Benner 30:08
on the pod fight I've been from a seven eight to a six one. Pretty

Michael 30:12
much I didn't really change that much. Wow. I think the overnights which is like what everyone's what everybody says the overnights really help. Just like if I mess up a Bolus, and I'm you know, on the high, two hundreds, almost three hundreds, they were bringing you back down to 120 at a time a week up. If I don't if I don't catch it.

Scott Benner 30:30
That's wonderful. Good for you. I'm just noticing because we're on camera today, I've lost weight. But I haven't thrown out all of my shirts that don't fit me anymore. And I'm like, I can't stop looking at like, how big this t shirt is all I thought when I looked up that as soon as we're done doing this, I'm throwing the shirt. Yeah. Here's the last part of your note. And I'm I'm endlessly fascinated with this. So I'm gonna dig into it with you. All right. What is the potential autism diagnosis mean? I,

Michael 30:59
I mean, I know that like this is a, I don't know, weird to say a trendy thing right now. But like,

Scott Benner 31:06
You're not wrong, by the way, the amount of people I hear that, that like, kind of like, blindly say, Oh, I'm a little autistic. And I think they mean it. Like I think they they're being sincere. It's gone. It's gone up significantly. Like, like the amount of times you hear people say it. I don't know if I want to say like a social contagion or not. But you do wonder, because people, and I don't think this is I'm not saying this to you, and I want to hear your story. But I do think sometimes people just want a thing. Yeah,

Michael 31:35
they want they want to they want a label to it. They want a reason for me. Like, this is why I'm acting like this and like kind of like a thing to put it on. Yeah,

Scott Benner 31:43
I think that I do. I also by the way, this isn't you. But I've just as a side note, but I've also seen people who feel left out. So they start trying to attribute some of their personalities to something and they go look, I have this like, oh God, is it important for you to have something? You know, like, but but that's not this. So tell me what brings you to that thought first? Is somebody come to you and say it? Or is that a feeling you'd have on your own?

Michael 32:07
I mean, it's it's a little bit of both. It's something that I feel on my own. I've been with my my current girlfriend for almost six years now. And there are a lot of things that she has noticed about me that she has also noticed about herself, that, that we have kind of been like, this isn't, neither of us have a ton of friends. And like, I'm I don't know, I mean, there's I mean, there's a lot. I mean, there's, you know, obviously it is a spectrum of sorts, and it's hard to get, you know, a diagnosis, and there are just a lot of things that on top of the ADHD, all this the social anxieties and, and things that can be attributed to that. And it's like part of it is like I need I want something to be like, this isn't just who I am. There's something. No

Scott Benner 32:58
reason why this is happening. Yeah.

Michael 33:01
And it's like, that's what I've always wanted to know, what

Scott Benner 33:05
is it that's happening? Like, what do you mean? Like social anxiety? What's that? First of all, for you? Like,

Michael 33:11
I mean, it's just like, I can't talk to people if I don't. If there's no reason for me to, like, I haven't absolutely no desire to, like talk to people, sometimes.

Scott Benner 33:27
It feels like a thing you don't want to admit. Yeah.

Michael 33:28
Because it's like, it feels like I feel bad thinking this like or if like if I'm at, like, even if it's like someone in my family or someone at work. I'm like, I make myself ask them how their weekend was no kind of thing which is like, but it's like, deep down. I really don't care. But let's like I do as I want to care, but I don't right. Like I would be totally fine. Not talking to anybody all day except for my girlfriend.

Scott Benner 33:56
Michael, I gotta tell you again, I don't know that you're much different than anybody else. So like, but it strikes you hard. I'm looking at you. It seems upsetting to you that you don't care about their weekend. I don't. Can I be clear, I don't care about anybody's weekend either. So none of us do. It's not that we don't care. It's that we don't have time to care. And I mean, if we were all living in a yurt together, then that's the right poll, right isn't a you're a giant tent that hippies living? Yes. If we were all living in a yurt together, then I might say to you, hey, what's going on my goal? And I'd really care because I wouldn't have anything else filling up my brain. But you're 25 you're with somebody, you live in a place that from what I can tell looks clean. So you've got like stuff to do that you have responsibilities. You're working a job, there's probably things you enjoy doing with your free time. And you're out of time to worry about how Jim and accountings like weekend win, but you're such a decent person you're upset for not caring about his weekend. Am I right about that? Like am I characterizing that pretty close to correctly? Yeah,

Michael 34:58
no, you Yeah, it's that's definitely the lie. I am in no way saying that I am like the only one No, no

Scott Benner 35:05
that like this is yeah, but let me stop you, Michael even there. Yeah, you're concerned that, that we're discounting how other people feel while we're having this conversation. You don't need to concern yourself with how they feel like we're just talking about you and me. You know what I mean? And they're listening in. But we're not, we're not saying, See, this is a, you're young. So you don't know this, okay. But this is a fairly new phenomenon in the last like, 10 years, where we all have to pressure ourselves to be worried about how you feel about what I'm saying. Like that didn't used to be a thing. If you were 40 years old, and we were having this conversation right now. You'd be like, I don't know, man, I don't care how people's weekends go. And that would be the end of it, and you go, but I heard about this. And I'm wondering if maybe I got a touch of this. And that would have, that's how our conversation would go, it would never occur to you or to me to worry that someone hearing it could be offended or upset by it. That is a fairly new phenomenon. It burdens you like I mean, it's burdened you a couple of times in the last half an hour already, like you're worried about other people, you know what I mean? Which is nice. But not to the level where it where it impacts you. I care about other people. I hope they have a good weekend. I don't want anything bad to happen to them. If it does, it's not my fault. And if I can't help or can't do anything about it, I can't shoulder that burden with me. So are you an incredibly like empathic person? Yeah,

Michael 36:35
I think so. I, but there's certain things where I care so much more about other people versus, you know, my, myself. And it's hard to like, I don't care what other people think, or I don't care how other people are feeling. I just want to do what's good for me right now. I understand what it's like, really, I can't get hurt. It's like, almost almost impossible for me to do that.

Scott Benner 37:05
Because it feels like you're, you're doing something to them. Like it feels like an affront to other people that you're not spending your time worried about them.

Michael 37:16
Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Or just like making sure that they're, like, it's, I mean, this is mostly a thing with my girlfriend, and I like I will take on as much as I can. So that she doesn't have as much to worry about, you know? Because, like, I'd rather me do it, because I can deal with it maybe a little bit more than she can. So that it's not as hard for her like her as an example.

Scott Benner 37:43
Does she have other struggles? Like are some that are similar to yours?

Michael 37:47
Yeah, I mean, she, she is she's got chronic migraines. And I mean, she's on medication for it now, which helps a lot. But she's got she's got a lot of chronic pain, and headaches, migraines, and pretty severe depression, and anxiety like myself. So there are a lot of things that can overwhelm her more than they will overwhelm me. And so I'll try to like, I just try to do as much as I can. Does that

Scott Benner 38:17
create an echo chamber? Like does does it bounce around like sonar? Does her anxiety bounce into you, that causes your anxiety to bounce back to her that makes her feel depressed? Because you're not happy? That makes you feel depressed? Because she's depressed? Like, does it just keep feeding itself like that? It

Michael 38:31
can, I will try my best to, like, reassure her that, like, you know, that, you know, or that I am okay. And, you know, if that's me, you know, lying to her that I'm, you know, maybe I'm not maybe I'm more anxious than I put on, or I'm more, you know, worried about something. Because usually the things I'm anxious or worried about are, it's never a big deal normally, and so but like the things that she's worried about are usually it is totally make sense for her to be worried about these things and to want to, you know, figure these these things out and get, you know, whatever, these things, these things fixed, and are

Scott Benner 39:08
they the kinds of things that in truth, if you push them, like if you could convince her that they were okay, and she didn't think about them anymore? Are they the kinds of things that really wouldn't cause a problem?

Michael 39:18
I think that they still would, because some of these things are like the real impactors, then

Scott Benner 39:23
not, not stuff that falls under that, like, I have a motto that one of my one of one of the things that I kind of like I model some of the things I do after and one of them is often the best thing to do is nothing. Yeah, so and and it works like you know, you're moderating a Facebook page or dealing with business stuff or a lot of times the best thing to do is nothing goes away and it's never a problem, but you're talking about real things that would actually be like negatively impactful if they weren't managed, but yet their day to day things that a lot of people just handle without incidents but it's tougher for you guys. Is that right? Yeah,

Michael 40:03
like, you know, you know, maybe it's deciding what we want to eat for dinner, you know, it's just like, it's hard for us to think about, like a week at a time versus a day at a time. You know, so like, stuff like that it can, like, I used to get really upset when I couldn't decide what to make for dinner, which is like, it sounds, you know, I obviously know how that sounds like, it sounds ridiculous. And it sounds are like, you know, if things don't work out, as well as I want it to. And it's like, not that big of a deal. I'll just get like, I'm like unreasonably upset if it's something like in my personal life, or if it's at work.

Scott Benner 40:43
So let's say that that is autism for a second, let's just suppose that this right. You need somebody to teach you how to how to deal with that stuff. Right? Yeah. So you need services, I imagine that would identify this and then help. Yeah, and but it's you and her by yourself, your are your parents involved in your life anymore?

Michael 41:05
They are I don't talk to them that much. Because pretty much ever since going to boarding school, we kind of went by the no news is good news motto. I would only call them if I needed something. Or if they just you know, or you know, at most every, you know, twice a month, we would call and talk. But it's just like I

Scott Benner 41:26
device like your mom right now how you worship like, Oh my God, He's great. He's got a job. He's got a girlfriend, they got a nice place. Like, that's how she would respond. Right? Yeah. Does she know all this stuff about you? I

Michael 41:38
mean, she knows. I mean, they've known about the, the anxiety for that was like my first like, you know, you know, it's, I guess, mental health diagnosis. When I when I was a kid, because it used to be really bad. Like, I used to go to a diabetes camp in the summer. And it was like a four hour drive. And the morning of the entire car ride I was, I was incredibly sick and nauseous and I would throw up. And like, every time we would travel, I would get, you know, just, I would get sick. I couldn't eat the day before I couldn't sleep. You know, and that's not as much of a problem anymore, but it still was throughout high school and college. Like the first day of class was like, you know,

Scott Benner 42:24
it was terrible. either of your parents like this. Like, do they have personalities that are similar? Yeah,

Michael 42:29
my my mom and I have some things that are in common. And my dad night to my dad's also very quiet. My my brother and I are pretty much like the same person. So that's kind of nice to kind of have someone to talk to you about some of the stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 42:44
you can talk to your brother about it. Yeah, it's great. Even he's 10 years older than you. Ah, yeah. So he's 35. That's good for you. Because he's been through a lot that he can kind of relate back to you. I would imagine how he's worked on. Yeah. Is he married? Yes. Yeah, this is unfair. But is he married to a person who's similar to him? It's unfair, because he's not on here. But I don't and I won't ask more than that. Because you've found a person who understands your stuff, because they have the same stuff that he has to do the same thing?

Michael 43:12
I'm not sure if that's nice. I mean, they are they are pretty similar. Okay. But they're not. I don't think that they are like the same person by any means. Okay. I think that she is very understanding, just like, I think, yeah, just very understanding of like, all the things that you know, that he has going on. Okay. Which is really all you can ask for.

Scott Benner 43:33
Yeah. So I'm sorry. So back to my initial thought was, you don't have somebody that you? Well, you do have somebody to your brother, just not your parents, that you could go to and say, Hey, these are the issues I'm having. I need. I think I need help. I don't really know where to go for that help. Like, have you tried saying that to him?

Michael 43:49
Yeah, yeah, I have, because he's gone through a little bit more than that. I have, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, like, I don't know, maybe six or seven years ago, maybe more, I don't know, the exact date. And so he's had his fair share of, of therapy, and, you know, going into a hospital for for that, and, you know, staying there for, you know, a week or so and like, dealing with that on top of trying to explain that to our parents.

Scott Benner 44:22
That was going on. Yeah,

Michael 44:25
I mean, I know that it did not go that that well, because they don't you know, people have, you know, my parents generation. I mean, obviously, this is well known that like they don't fully understand the severity of some

Scott Benner 44:39
mental health issues. Issues. Yeah. And they also I mean, I think it can be it can be common for people to not want their children to have problems to begin with. You know, yeah, so saying I've learned this Oh, no, you just you just don't like car rides. Like that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Like because that's probably how they remember because it honestly, when you're vomiting on the way to like, diabetes camp. They're not thinking, Oh, that's a really anxious kid I got there. They don't see it that way. You don't I mean, yeah, so it makes sense. Wow, man. That's a lot. You overwhelmed me for a second. So don't feel bad. I know you're gonna feel bad. I don't feel bad. I'm alright. Don't worry, the internet already attacked me today. You can't hurt me. I'm good. Every once in a while the internet likes to come for me. Did I seem to be the day? Wow, what made you want to come on the podcast?

Michael 45:32
i Sorry. No, Michael, I

Scott Benner 45:35
didn't know you're gonna emotional. Go ahead. Take your time. It's fine. It's fine. Do you want me to cry? Would it help if we were both crying? Because I'll do it. I can cry it through the face for three more seconds, I'm gonna cry just to get us. Like it's okay.

Michael 45:47
Take your time. Yeah, it's just that this No, listening to this podcast has helped a lot. Because I've been I've been listening for a couple of years at this point. And just like, you know, I want to be able to do that same thing for you know, someone else, you know, even if it's just that one other person, you know, that maybe has something similar. I'm like, you know, because like, I've had some some friends that are that are diabetic. But like, obviously, going to camp was like, probably one of the best things I could have done. I went consistently for like, like, 15 years in a row. And so I think just having someone like, like you, who is, you know, taking this, this thing, and just making it that much more manageable. And like, you know, even if it's just, you know, having people who don't have diabetes, understand, you know, just all the different perspectives decided just wanted to be a part of it. Because I'm not very active in, like, on the Facebook group, or, or, or anything. I think the only time I posted on there was because I ran out of pods and insurance and send me more, try to see if I could get some but

Scott Benner 47:21
not an uncommon. So let me make sure I understand. I think I do. And you made me cry. So I'm good. Now. Now we're going to cry. You found this connection that it's giving to you. And you recognize that the reason there's value in it for you is because other people come on and tell their stories and you want to add to it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, thank you. And like,

Michael 47:45
because because like, I know that, you know, you know, I may not be the only one who has this exact, you know, experience, but everyone's got something a little bit different, you know, and everyone's got a different combo of, you know, autoimmune diseases and, you know, mental health issues and, you know, different different stages of their life.

Scott Benner 48:03
Right. Well, I think you'd be surprised by how many people have your combo, actually. Yeah,

Michael 48:07
you know, yeah.

Scott Benner 48:10
It's, I mean, you know, and I would know, without making the podcast for certain, but it's incredibly common, the, the anxiety, depression part, along with the autoimmune stuff, just like even when you said your brother had a bipolar diagnosis. It was hard for me not to say yeah, like, doesn't surprise me. So many people have said it, like somebody in their family has bipolar diagnosis. At this point. I mean, I don't know. I guess I'd have to go interview 1000 People who don't have any autoimmune in their life, but it seems connected to me. You know? No,

Michael 48:49
yeah. There's, I mean, there's no way that it isn't because, I mean, my mom's got, she's got hypothyroidism and my brother's got hyperthyroidism, recently diagnosed. You know, my grandma on my, on my dad's side, too, has thyroid issues. So like, it's, you know, it's like, and like all this stuff on you know, because like, I think I've heard you say that, you know, ADHD can be, you know, inflammatory kind of in this in the same way. And I mean, it's definitely related. And then they kind of bounce back on each other because like, your blood sugar's out of whack.

Scott Benner 49:19
You know, she's around more, you're not who you are on top of everything. Yeah, I completely buy into it. I listen, I'm not a scientist. I don't know how cells work and how inflammation works. And also, I don't think I mean, I think we're on the in the infancy even in the science world of how people understand inflammation, or even like, You're, like, you know, if I would have said 20 years ago, if I would have turned to somebody in my life and said, You know, I think it's possible that the biome in your gut is impacting how you feel and how you think. I don't know that people wouldn't have locked you up for saying something that sounds too crazy. I'm still old enough that when I say it out loud I get weird douche chills. I'm like, oh my god, do I sound ridiculous right now? But I think it's just I think it's obvious. You don't mean like, I'm not saying it would fix anything but like, I'm drawn to ask you if you're taking a good probiotic. And that makes me sound like a lunatic in my own voice like, in my own head. You don't I mean, no,

Michael 50:18
but I mean, after listening to I mean, I've listened to all those episodes where he talked about the different supplements and art and supplements. And I've been, I started taking a while I was already taking magnesium, but I started taking it, I think I was taking a little bit more, because you know, you kind of have to, you kind of have to take too much to know how much to take. Yes. And so that that's been helping a lot and taking a same digestive enzyme, which I've, I think the past like month, I have not taken it, I've totally forgotten that I hadn't had it. But that did help that help with the like, even just like making sure I don't like, go sky high after a meal. If I didn't know, if I was a few minutes off on the Pre-Bolus or something. You know, it helps to now

Scott Benner 50:59
you're gonna make me really upset, like, I'm actually going to cry now. Because to know that sharing that with someone helped you or anybody is, you know, I spent? And I don't want to turn this conversation to me, but no, and I also know that people are laughing now. And they're like, of course, she just got but I don't.

Michael 51:20
I mean, it's, it's conversational. Yeah, it's a team effort.

Scott Benner 51:25
But the thing that happened today online, caused me to have to explain what it's like to be in my position. Right. And, and it's, it's a thing that I can tell you with, with great certainty that most people won't be able to understand. Like, it's like, I know, we all think of ourselves as like, you know, internet, like, everybody feels like they're a personality now and internet because everybody has, you know, an account here and there. And you might even have 1000, or a couple 1000 followers. And it feels like, wow, I say something and 1000s of people see it, but they don't really like people follow you. They're not on Instagram constantly. They're not on wherever you're at constantly. But I have a significant following. And you would think that it would impact me to say that, like, yeah, it's obvious, I talked about this, and it was going to reach you and you were going to try it and it was going to help you. But I don't have that feeling about myself. So I don't honestly think that way. Like, I know that it's there are probably some cynical people who won't believe this, but I'm just recording my thoughts. And I put them out. And they do what they do. And I don't really think about them anymore. After that. I'm not here maniacally trying to be like, Oh, I'll say this. And this, you know, and it'll make people think like, I don't have, like, I don't think like that. So that when someone comes back and says that the podcast has been helpful for them in some way, there is a small part of me that's shocked by it every time. You know, like, like, I'm just like, oh, wow, that's crazy. Really good for you like that. That's how it feels to me when you say that, Oh, I got something that helped me. And so it's just a, it's impactful to hear that something about your life got better, because something happened to my daughter, and we talked about it on here, and it made its way to you. And anyway, I think when I say that, it It must seem disingenuous to some people, like you know, how many people you're reaching? Because I do I know, I know how often the podcast has been downloaded and how frequently and what the numbers are and how it ranks and all that stuff. But, um, but it's not a thing that I it's not a top of my mind when we have conversations like this, I guess. Right? So,

Michael 53:35
I mean, it's, I mean, that's a totally like, you know, you can't expect yourself to be constantly thinking about, you know, how you're coming across to people during a conversation, because then it's like, you'll, you'll never be really in the conversation. Yeah, you're not really focused,

Scott Benner 53:50
right? You'd always just end up I'd be, I'd be the equivalent of our local news anchor, then, you know what I mean, if a big dumb look on my face, and I only say things that I know, everybody could agree with. Like, we love it when it's sunny, right, Bill? Yeah, like, great. Thanks. That's gonna help no one, but okay. Anyway, like, You shocked me, like when you started talking about like, oh, the magnesium like, Oh, my God, he does that. Wherever you hear about that? You know, so it's an oddity for me, I get this, and I get better at it all the time, like absorbing it and taking it. But there's also part of me that thinks that I shouldn't go too much farther the other way. Because I mean, what's over there, except me just like pompously believing that everybody hears what I say. And like that. I don't think that would be healthy to feel like that. So, you know, I mean, I don't feel like that, but I wouldn't want to either. Anyway. Wow. Well, you definitely help people with your story, that's for sure. That's really great. I mean, you're incredibly open. And it was people can't see you. But it's been difficult. We've only been talking for an hour. It's been difficult for you at times, like genuinely difficult to say things that you've said and and that's that's very nice of you to do. Actually, I have a question going all the way back to like 20 minutes ago, maybe 20 minutes in. You said like, I don't care how their weekend is, could that be the Wellbutrin keeping you from caring how their weekend is? Or did you not care before the Wellbutrin? I?

Michael 55:17
That's a good question. I don't know. Maybe. But I'm not taking. I mean, I think I'm taking like 300 milligrams does. But that's a good good. I don't, it's hard for me to take notice of some of these things. Sure. I'm like, I don't I don't remember why. Right. I don't know what it's, I don't know what it's like to, like, you know, like, it's hard for me to have breakfast, sometimes the morning before you go to work. But then in the morning, I do have breakfast. I won't really notice if I feel better. You know, like, like, stuff like that. It's like hard for me to like, I can't pay attention to myself enough. It made me

Scott Benner 55:54
wonder like is the medication helping you with one thing, but hurting you in another way? And because that description, like you won't know this until you hear it back? Maybe not even then. But that that push and pull of like, I do care about their weekend, but I can't make myself care about their weekend as like a torture statement. You know, and it's it's tough to know, like, but but I also don't know what you're being helped, like, what what has been alleviated for you that is incredibly important to be alleviated? I don't know that either. So,

Michael 56:27
I mean, even I don't even know what's been illegal, like, I'd have to stop taking it to be like, Oh, this is what it was helping me with. Like

Scott Benner 56:36
the enzyme I don't really know. Yeah, you start taking it and it helps and everything gets better. They actually say that, like cycle like, second, what's the word I want just, let's just say depression medicine, like, the biggest problem that they have with it is for people to become non compliant taking it because they have a problem. And then for the ones that start taking it that are helped by it, their life normalizes and then they start thinking, I don't need this medicine, I'm fine, when the medication might be the only reason they're fine. And you know, and so yeah, you get put into a slightly different reality than you would be. And without it, you don't even know where the other reality is, let alone to have ability to I guess, adequately discuss it, and then evaluate it, right? It's a weird position to be in. Do you ever think of just stopping it? Or do you remember what it was like before that and that doesn't seem like a good idea.

Michael 57:33
I've thought about it, because I'm like, I want to see like, you know, maybe just from having maybe a slightly better routine of, you know, eating regularly eating healthier, doing more exercise, like maybe, if I or if I just go down on it, you know, cut it in half to see if it would make any differences, but I kind of don't want to mess with it quite yet. Because, you know, what if it is, it's like, I've forgotten to take him out one night, and I feel terrible. The next day, he was just like, it's the withdrawal. Right? Right, right. Yeah, talking there. But like,

Scott Benner 58:08
there's a way to titrate off of it. If you're going to come off of it, it's actually takes some time to grow. We prior to that, did you ever have like thoughts about hurting yourself or anything like that?

Michael 58:20
Not nothing serious is always fleeting, like kind of like, you know, but it was it's always in, you know, like, I have a lot of guilt about a lot of things that are like on an unreasonable guilt. So that kind of can play a part

Scott Benner 58:40
be overwhelming without it. Yeah. I was going to ask you did anything like tragic or traumatic happened to you when you were younger?

Michael 58:51
I don't think so. I mean, other than the diagnosis, which really, I mean, I remember like, crying when they had to prick my finger over the roof, because it hurt, you know, but like, and like having to deal with all the shots and all that stuff. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:05
I'm talking more like a neighbor's never take me in the basement to show you this train set or something like that.

Michael 59:11
No, no, not nothing like that. I mean, I've had I mean, I got a pretty gnarly concussion a couple years ago. But I mean, like, that's not but nothing like yeah, no, like, no, like physical or like, mental abuse,

Scott Benner 59:23
actual mental, like physical stuff like that. And you had a bad concussion. But you've had these problems prior to that. Yeah. Okay. Not to say that it has to be one way or the other. But the stories that I hear from people over and over again, it's either wiring or something really bad happened. You know what I mean? Like and, and that's, that's it. You see somebody do you talk to a therapist?

Michael 59:46
I do. I see someone almost every week. Good. Does it help? Yeah, I think it does help even if it's just like, you know, having feelings. Yeah, that is You know, Microcenter isn't, you know, family or, or, you know, friends and someone who can like really kind of understand what's, what's going on. But

Scott Benner 1:00:12
it helps in that it relieves the pressure, but it's not. It's not lessening the strain. Overall, is just keeping it from exploding. Yeah,

Michael 1:00:21
I think yeah, I think it's just yeah, being able to get it out and to like, talk about it in a way that, like, just how I am talking here. It's like, I don't really, you know, it's like, in a way I know you but not not really interested. Yeah, you know. And so it's like, A, it's really easy for me to talk to somebody I don't know, which is kind of weird. Because it's like, if I like talking to people at work, it's like, I don't want to let them know who I really am all the way. Yeah, no, I

Scott Benner 1:00:47
I agree with because it's like, I

Michael 1:00:49
see them every day.

Scott Benner 1:00:50
Yeah. And you have to keep the job too. And you don't want them to walk away and go, we should get rid of Michael. Yeah, he's worrying me. And, yeah, it's a weird place to try to make a really sincere personal connection, because there's always the job. Is that the core of why you even know each other, you know, and I don't know what you do. But if you're in a competitive environment, there are certain terrible people that will use that against you to try to just jump up the ladder. You know what I mean? So

Michael 1:01:19
yeah, well, thankfully, I work at a very, very relaxed, and somewhat I don't want to say easy, but it's a it's a, it's a pretty easy job. And I really like it. It's, it's hands on. So I'm a hands on person. So but they're

Scott Benner 1:01:35
not currently, it's not a place where people are clawing at each other to make 10 more dollars or something like that. It's

Michael 1:01:40
no, there's only like seven or eight people that work there. So good. Okay, well, that's good. It

Scott Benner 1:01:45
sounds like a good fit for you. Did you end up making it through college with a degree? I

Michael 1:01:49
got my BFA in furniture design from SCAD. Oh, really? Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:01:55
Where are you? I think I'm not supposed to say my daughter goes there. So yeah, no. Are you in Atlanta? Were you in the Atlanta campus? Or Savannah?

Michael 1:02:05
Savannah?

Scott Benner 1:02:07
Oh, no kidding. Did you stay local, or if you left, we

Michael 1:02:09
left to go to Milwaukee. After we graduated, we graduated 2020. So the West Center graduate, and then we moved back. We're in the we're back in the southeast, okay, after like, almost three years in the Midwest, just because we like the weather down here. And it's more familiar to us. And we're close enough to Savannah, because we love living there. It was, it was amazing to live there already

Scott Benner 1:02:36
and can't wait to leave. Really, she's like, it's too hot. And everyone moves too slowly. That was the other thing. She says she's like,

Michael 1:02:45
Yeah, no, the slowness can get to you. I mean, but after four years, I mean, you kind of learn to settle. And to like, enjoy it to be like, you don't need to move fast. You're you're gonna get way too sweaty to move fast.

Scott Benner 1:02:57
I think I think those two things actually do impact each other. Yeah, it's a lovely area. I've visited obviously, a number of times, and I've always had a good time. I again, I've never lived there for more than a week. But yeah, it's always been a really pleasurable experience, actually. Yeah. So So do you design furniture for a living?

Michael 1:03:14
Not for a living? I mean, obviously, ideally, that's what I wanted to do. When I graduated. I wanted to do more, you know, hands on furniture making and, you know, maybe some some, I mean, obviously, I love to design and make my own stuff. Which I, which I still do for just for making stuff for our house or making stuff for friends. I'll do but I'm never really got a job to do that. Because it's a pretty small. It's a pretty small industry. Yeah. And like, I don't want to be sitting behind a computer doing CAD work, you know, all day, because I don't, I just sounds like the worst.

Scott Benner 1:03:48
How do you apply what you learned that in the world, making stuff for myself,

Michael 1:03:53
I love just making, like, I've always loved making things that somebody or myself could use in their everyday life. I think that's just something like really fulfilling for me. And so the job I have now is, does that and it just in a different way. Okay. And so, I mean, I use my like, whatever I learned for like, design wise, almost every day, but furniture wise, I just, I'm always thinking about stuff I want to make, but I haven't had a job and like the furniture or like woodworking industry like properly. I was a finished carpenter for a few months. And I did a furniture maker apprenticeship with a guy in Milwaukee for a few months.

Scott Benner 1:04:35
Did you enjoy it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I

Michael 1:04:38
really liked the the apprenticeship. The finished carpentry was difficult. I mean, it was during the winter in Wisconsin, so it was really cold. I mean, it started at like seven in the morning. And I did drive 30 minutes to get this freezing outside.

Scott Benner 1:04:52
Doesn't seem that bad, but it does when it's minus one degree. Yeah, yeah. And

Michael 1:04:57
those roads are frozen. So we're working in isn't finished so it's not heated and my girlfriend's from Texas and so she anything below 50 is, you know, the coldest ever. And so like living there for you know, three years was that was bad.

Scott Benner 1:05:13
She must have hated that. And you go where your girlfriend wants to go. So you're stuck. Yeah. Well,

Michael 1:05:17
no, because she she had a job. She had a she had a job route to college. So we figure why not, you know, and it's, you know, there. You know, it wasn't the worst. I mean, we did really love living there for half a year.

Scott Benner 1:05:30
Did you guys meet at school? Yeah, yeah, we

Michael 1:05:32
met at SCAD. Sophomore year.

Scott Benner 1:05:36
Nice. Oh, that's, that's lovely actually Arden's a sophomore right now. Yeah, she's working. It feels like 50 hours a day, at the stuff that it's fascinating how much work there is? Yeah,

Michael 1:05:49
it's. And it's funny, because I mean, obviously there. I mean, every school is different. But people will come into an art school like that and be like, Oh, it's going to be easy. But it's like when you have two and a half hours to do classes. And like I had a couple of five and a half hour classes. And like it's not. And it's like you're working constantly. And it's like, it's not, it's definitely not easy. And it's not especially the first year and doing all the Gen Ed's and the drawing and those things. And one 3d design and all that stuff is yeah, it's it's not easy.

Scott Benner 1:06:25
She's in life drawing right now. And last week, the instructor teacher that whatever you would call them, I didn't go to college. So no fancy words, I guess, Professor, they said, Hey, this weekend, you have to draw this. And you should spend at least six hours in the lab doing it. And art was like, I have so much to do. Like, I don't know how to, like accomplish that. But she did it. And then she went back to class and she said, Everyone who didn't spend the time, you could tell in their work that they didn't put the time in, you know, she's like, so the time is, it's the effort, but the effort takes a lot of time and if you don't spend it then you don't get it back. She said the the teacher pictures upset. It was really good show to the people. So this is like, what we were looking for that kind of thing, but aren't like that, like, that was great. But it took a whole day. You know, like, like, Hey, get up. I gotta eat. I'm gonna take a shower. I gotta go over there. Now I'm there for six hours I get home. It's dark, you know? Like, it's, she's like, it's a lot. And she goes, I don't think people just like you said, I don't think people would believe how busy I am here.

Michael 1:07:28
Yeah, yeah, it's it's constant. And that's why I'll have to go in there open 24/7 so that you can stay drawing until three in the morning. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:07:35
I don't walk the buildings. You can just yeah, you can go in and work whenever you want to because you have to. Well, I think most people would hear that and go, oh, there's no science and there's no math and there's no this and you're not really at college, but it's a little work for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like what did your girlfriend do while she was there, which was her degree with?

Michael 1:07:54
She got her degree in fibers. So like, I tried

Scott Benner 1:07:58
so hard to push Arden towards the Yeah,

Michael 1:08:01
yes. It is one of the coolest majors I think there is. I mean, she learned so much. And she is a hands on person just like me. And so like learning how to weave and like, she knows how to spin her own yarn. And then the job that she got was like surface design. So it's like designing print and pattern for clothes and graphic. And, you know, like the the flowery prints on a dress, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. But it was it was a corporate job. So she hated it. She left. I

Scott Benner 1:08:32
think that's what Artemis said. She's like, I'm not gonna want to do that. I even just I'm like, just take a minor in it. And I was like, seriously, it looks so interesting. And she's like, Yeah, I don't know. And I'm like, but we anyway, we were really like my wife. and I were like, This is good. I would look at this. And she's like, not what I want. Okay.

Michael 1:08:47
Yeah, no, I mean, you should I mean, if she could take even just a class at Pepe, it's, it's an awesome that buildings awesome. And the minor is, I had a friend and furniture who took the minor. And he said it was it was a lot of fun, because it's just like, it would go hand in hand with with fashion.

Scott Benner 1:09:07
I know. That's what we really did push her towards that she just took a business track as a minor instead. Because I think she really feels like she's gonna, like run a small business. It's something

Michael 1:09:16
I want to do do her own thing. Yeah, that's definitely and you can't really go wrong with that.

Scott Benner 1:09:20
Right? So we'll see. But anyway, Arden doesn't go there. She goes someplace. And where am I supposed to say Chicago? Chicago? Yeah, all of you are wrong. And please don't look for her internet. I get a note the other day from a woman who said, I'm not a stalker. Any note you get online that begins I'm not a stalker. You're like, Oh, I'm gonna die. But anyway, this one, she goes, I'm not a stalker, but she was I was in Forsyth Park the other day. And I saw a girl with an omni pod or with a Dexcom on her arm. And she had like your daughter's color hair and I stopped myself from going up to her. And I responded back and I said, Listen, you're lucky you didn't do that. because that wasn't her, because Arden doesn't wear Dexcom on her arm. Oh, I said, so you would have been rushed? A person who did not know at all, what the hell you were talking about? Like so. So anyway, so for all of you in Savannah, don't just assume you see her. You might be seeing other people have diabetes to get out. Yeah,

Michael 1:10:20
I mean, I will do that. There was we went to this art art show gallery thing a couple of weeks ago, and there were two people there who were I could see their pumps. So I forced myself to be like, a diabetic. And like, ask them questions and be like, oh, like, I would love to get your number, right. So that we can, like, have some sort of, you know, community, which I think is really important, you know, something like, the podcast, or just like, you know, being able to have somebody to, you know, even if it's like, I had someone at SCAD, who we had the same, you know, on the pod Dexcom. So, like, I would often run out before my insurance would get me more. And so she would trade me one, and I give her one when I got mine in the mail next week. Of course. Yeah, stuff like that is just like, it's a, you know, it's a priceless resource. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:11:09
diabetes. Give a penny take a penny. Yeah. Oh, we're gonna call your episode. Give a penny take a penny. What a great idea. All right. See? You mind that? That sounds good. All right, is that I mean, that's what you're doing. Right. You're adding your story and taking other people's stories out and putting that in there. And it's perfect. Look at me being creative. Alright. Anything we missed anything? Michael, anything we should have talked about that we didn't?

Michael 1:11:36
I don't think so. Unless there's anything you wanted to ask me more?

Scott Benner 1:11:41
I mean, you feel good about what you got out, though. I want to make sure about that. Yeah, I

Michael 1:11:45
think so. I'm trying to think if there's anything else I wanted to talk about. But I mean, I think just I think I'm just so hard on myself with like the daily, the daily stuff of like, I've had this for 18 years, I still haven't nailed this down. Like what's like, what's wrong with me? You know, that kind of feeling? I guess we kind of touched on that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:12:03
dude, you have a sixth one. And really, the last thing for you to do is Pre-Bolus. Yeah, just stop, you're bouncing off the chase. So like, is there? Like, I know you said earlier, like when you and your girlfriend are trying to even make like a schedule for what you're going to eat this week that it's difficult for you to do. I wonder if instead of trying to say to yourself, let's sit down and make a menu for this week? Could you not just say, let's sit down and write down all the food we like. And just write it all down? And then just take what you've written down and slide it into segments and do your grocery shopping? You don't I mean? Like, maybe it's the pressure of what are we going to make for like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, what if you just made it more fun. I know, that seems simplistic, but it's what popped into my head when you were saying it earlier? Just like let's just, let's just write down everything we like to eat, and then we'll make it or why don't we just decide that we're gonna go grocery shopping twice a week, and, and just choose the next three days, like, we'll take our master list of food we love. And we'll look at it and choose three things and go grocery shopping for them. And then go again, why not make your thing fit into life? Instead of trying to make a life fit into your thing? I guess is my thought and then, you know, from there? I don't know man, the Pre-Bolus things tougher everybody. But yeah, do you eat at the same time every day? Or a similar time?

Michael 1:13:31
Similar, I try to eat lunch at the same time lunch I can usually remember to because I'm like, cuz I'm looking forward to taking lunch when I'm at work. So I'm like, Okay, I guess that means I can I can eat lunch soon, you know, all you know. So I'll plan it more ahead. And it's I don't eat a huge lunch. So it's like, easy for me to Pre-Bolus Is this not

Scott Benner 1:13:49
as easy as setting an alarm on your phone that says Bolus at certain times a day? And even if it's not exactly right, at least maybe it's in your head, then I

Michael 1:13:57
will do that for lunch. I'll like be like, I want to eat. I want to eat soon. I'm going to people's now I'll set a timer for 10 minutes. So because sometimes I'll Pre-Bolus I will forget to eat. Sure. Yeah. And then and then I'm dropping and then I'm like, I can't eat fast enough for it to catch and then I have to eat more. Like you know, drink a juice and then a pie and then it's like that. That happens way too often for me and I don't I mean, even if it's or if it's you know the other way

Scott Benner 1:14:21
around. Yeah. But you struggle most with timing your meal insulin. That really is your biggest struggle. Am I wrong? Yeah, yeah. Also, related, unrelated. If you could get your TSH down a little bit, maybe you maybe use insulin a little better. Actually, if you drank water a little more, maybe you'd use your insulin a little better. Like maybe these little like fixes along the way would all kind of commingle and make a big guy you know and pick improvement for you

Michael 1:14:50
know, I mean, so far even just in the past year that I've had because I've had the Omnipod fi for almost a year now. Pretty much got it as soon as I could. I had issues with insurance but What's new, but yeah, that it helped a lot. I was so excited. I was looking forward to this for years, once they had like the ones there's like the little teaser for it for automation.

Scott Benner 1:15:10
I remember when they used to call it, whatever they're gonna call it first. Like Verizon, they were gonna call it an omni pod horizon, and they changed the name to Omni pod five. That's right, even though there was not an Omnipod 123 and four. Yeah. I've never asked anybody about that. Maybe I will one deck. Yeah, it's like the Dexcom numbering, like, somehow started at seven then went to four, like, and then seven plus then four, then five. And then I was like, You guys are overthinking this. Start at one. Yeah, but excellence to keep going. But I think I think when even it shows you, even with a company like they don't when they're doing it, they don't know the future. Like they probably didn't realize when they were making Dexcom that ended up being iteration after iteration after iteration of it. You know what I mean? So the first person calls it something and then you wake up three years later, you're like, Oh, our naming system doesn't work, right? What's it you know, just what happens? Honestly, I have that problem. Sometimes with my episodes, I'm like, Oh, I shouldn't call it that. Now. I'm stuck. And they got to work around it. It's a pain in the butt. How'd you find the podcast?

Michael 1:16:20
My dad was out walking his dog. And one of their neighbors has type one. And she had mentioned it to him. And that was like, that must have been sophomore freshman year of college. Okay. And so that's how I heard about it. And then I didn't listen to it for a while until I remembered it. So I wasn't really listening to podcasts yet. Like, I was just like, I'm not ready to lay I don't have time to listen to podcasts. Like, I can't we listen to him in class. And I was more like, couldn't do them yet. But now I'm like, podcasts 90% of the time. And so that, so I found it through my dad.

Scott Benner 1:16:59
Okay. And it helped you like management wise, the podcast is, has helped you make better decisions. Yeah,

Michael 1:17:05
I mean, I didn't know about I mean, my doctors haven't told me anything. Basically, about, I didn't know about protein rise. And like I didn't know, like, I didn't even know about Pre-Bolus thing until a few years ago. Like, I mean, I knew that, like, that's kind of what you should be doing. But that's not like, we didn't do that at diabetes camp. You know, we didn't you know, the doctor didn't tell. Tell us about that. You know, I did the extent of my diabetes education was you can read a nutrition label, you're good. Okay. And that was like, and that and I was seven years old. And so then no more after that.

Scott Benner 1:17:37
So like, Well, is it maybe it's fair to say that maybe you don't forget to Bolus as much as you've been trained not to? Like maybe this is a habit you're trying to break? You know what I mean? Yeah,

Michael 1:17:48
yeah, I have a lot of, I don't think I've had a good habit. Like, I don't have a consistent habit of anything, I think, which is, like, weird to think about, but I think about it a lot. Like, I haven't done anything good consistently for more than three days in a row. Pick

Scott Benner 1:18:04
one. Just pick one. Yeah. Drink, drink water thing. Or, like you don't I mean, like, pick one thing, and then prove to yourself that you can break a habit. And you know what I mean? And then just keep trying to apply it to other things. It's gonna be a long process. But But here's, here's what I here's what I'm pretty certain of, if you were my kid, and I am old enough to have, yeah, oh, my God has word. But But I would say this, there's trying, and there is accepting it. So if you just accept that, if you accept it, and like, I'm never going to get this, right, it's not going to make anything better, because you're still going to torture yourself about it, you're gonna feel disappointed. I hear your voice when you're talking about how you treat people or like, even how you feel like you're never you're just going to burden yourself in a different way. Right? So you have to there's no choice, in my opinion, you got to keep working at it. And then working out, it can't just mean knowing that you're not doing a thing. It has to mean actual, like functional, functioning, functional, excuse me, like steps. So you have to create steps that are small enough that they're going to make an improvement. But tell yourself it's okay if it doesn't happen today, or this week, or this month, has to be like a big improvement. And, you know, I can tell you like I gave myself over to that idea when I started like we go V because the doctor will say to you Oh you know, where do you see like once it's in your system, like you're gonna lose like a pound a week. And I know when the doctor says that they're like, that's amazing. A pound a week's amazing but back then when someone says it to us, you're like, Why? Why, like a pound like I got, I got more weight to lose and all that like, like, how's that gonna help anything? But that's how it happens. You lose a pound a week. So you just accept that that's the situation and you call that you don't just call it progress. As you celebrated the weekends and you're a pound lighter, and you're like, I can't believe this, you don't look in the mirror and go, I have to lose 50 pounds to this is not very exciting. The you don't eat meat, you say this is amazing. I was supposed to lose a pound this week I did. This is a major celebration. I think that's how you treat like when you pick your waterglass up you go look at me doing it. And you act like you've done. I mean, fake it till you make it. And that's what they teach in AAA. So seriously, I don't know if you like it or not, it doesn't matter if that's a staple of that of that recovery idea. It is really what you're trying to do is you're trying to recover from a habit into another one. So just yeah, you know, man, I say it a lot of different ways, but just set the bar so damn low that even if you trip, you'll end up on the other side of it.

Michael 1:20:43
Ya know, I tried to do the I tried to set my expectations really low. Because it's like, that's, I mean, it's like, you got to start somewhere, you know? It's like, Yeah, I mean, you got to, you know, if you can do one thing. And then it's like, if you like, even if I don't expect to do it, and then I do it. It's like, Oh, great. It's like, you know, those couple days a week where like, my, my, my blood sugar doesn't go above 150, which is like very rare. But it's like, it feels amazing. It's such a great feeling.

Scott Benner 1:21:12
Please think it's interesting when people say that, they have to drink more water, it's a great example. And then there, they end up with a flat a Hydro Flask in their hand that's holding like it feels like it's a half a gallon of liquid. And they're like, hey, you know, it's got lines on it and drink this by eight o'clock this dynamic. You were a person yesterday who drank six ounces of water all day. And now you want to drink? I don't know, however much isn't that thing. That seems to be an unreasonable leap to me. Like, why don't you just start with 12 ounces. And then tomorrow try for more into like, because you'll build up a muscle to it. Like I take that AG one in the morning, it was actually hard to learn how to do. And it wasn't after not actually tastes fine. And like all that's fine. It's just it's that it wasn't a thing I used to do. And then I wanted to make it a thing I did it taking vitamins is the same way like people like oh, I forget them all the time. I get it, like I that happened to me, I had vitamins I want to take, I would forget to take them all the time. So I went out like an old person and bought a vitamin caddy, and I load them up. And I it's right in the middle of the island, like right in the middle of my kitchen. My wife did not like them there. So she moves it, then I go take it and move it back. Because not because I'm messing with her Michael, although that is a lovely byproduct of the of it. Because I do enjoy. I do enjoy screwing with her. But not because of that. But because I just said to him, like if it's not right here, I won't remember. And that needs to be important to you. Because it's important to me, and I need them to be right here. So there's this big, ugly plastic thing on my countertop, and I cannot avoid it. I literally put it I did the like physical equivalent of taping it to my forehead, or writing Pre-Bolus on my palm or something like that. You know what I mean? So, and then it became a habit. And now I can't, I can't forget, like it's impossible. Every day. I'm like, Oh, I take these vitamins. Every day I eat something that I know my body will struggle with. I take those enzymes with it, because I leave them out in front of me. Like I don't give myself the opportunity to forget it. So I don't know you're not the same person. But I hope something in there is valuable for you. Oh, yeah.

Michael 1:23:23
I mean, I did the same thing with my, with my pills. I got like a I got like a, like a very nice looking wooden pillowcase. So that if it's on my nightstand, it looks good. And I'd be like, Oh, it's right there. Let me just take it. I can preload it, you know, for the week. And it has it has a morning, morning side and a night side. So I can keep it all right there.

Scott Benner 1:23:42
I thought for sure you were gonna say that you made it. Like when you said, No, I

Michael 1:23:45
wish I wish it looks it does look really nice. I mean, I probably could, but it would be this person did it so well. So it's like I'd rather somebody else by law. I

Scott Benner 1:23:56
really appreciate this. We're getting along now. So I'm going to say goodbye. But yeah, I want to hang on from it and talk to you when we hang up. And then. Yeah, and I appreciate your time very much. Thank

Michael 1:24:04
you. Of course. Yeah. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:24:06
That was a real pleasure. Hold on one second.

Here huge thanks to Dexcom for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast dexcom.com/juice box head over there now get started today. If you'd like to wear the same insulin pump that Arden does, all you have to do is go to Omni pod.com/juice box. That's it. Head over now and get started today and you'll be wearing the same tubeless insulin pump that Arden has been wearing since she was four years old. I want to thank the ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. Learn more about its implantable sensor, smart transmitter and terrific mobile application at ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Get the only implantable sensor for long term wear get ever Ever since. If you're living with type one diabetes, the afterdark collection from the Juicebox Podcast is the only place to hear the stories that no one else talks about. From drugs to depression, self harm, trauma, addiction, and so much more. Go to juicebox podcast.com up in the menu and click on after dark. There you'll see a full list of all of the after dark episodes. I know that Facebook has a bad reputation, but please give the private Facebook group for the Juicebox Podcast. A healthy once over Juicebox Podcast, type one diabetes. The group now has 47,000 members in it, it gets 150 new members a day. It is completely free. And at the very least you can watch other people talk about diabetes, and everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones, everyone is welcome. Go up into the feature tab of the private Facebook group. And there you'll see lists upon lists of all of the management series that are available to you for free in the Juicebox Podcast, becoming a member of that group. I really think it will help you it will at least give you community you'll be able to kind of lurk around see what people are talking about. Pick up some tips and tricks. Maybe you can ask a question or offer some help Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

---

Please support the sponsors

Learn more about Medtronic Diabetes - sponsored

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate

#1179 Cold Wind: Institutional Nursing

"Jessica" has been a nurse in a home for the elderly and a hospital for criminals. 

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android  -  Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1179 of the Juicebox Podcast

you didn't hear what just happened to me while I was trying to say Hello friends, but I'm going to cut it out put it at the end so you can hear it later. Why am I here? Oh, I'm here to tell you that this is another cold wind episode. I'll be talking to a person today who we're going to call Jessica. Jessica has had type one diabetes since 1993 When they were diagnosed at 22 months old. That's right, she's 32 today. Jessica is a registered nurse. She's worked at an assisted care facility with an elderly population. Currently, she's in a criminal justice based system that deals with people who have committed crimes or have significant psych issues. Please don't forget that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan or becoming bold with insulin. Hey, the T one D exchange is looking for US residents who have type one diabetes, or are the caregivers of someone with type one they need you to take a survey the survey takes about 10 minutes your answers to completely simple questions that you will know the answers to help to move diabetes research forward specifically type one diabetes research. So if you want to help type one research, go take the survey T one D exchange.org/juicebox. It's quick, it's easy, and you'll actually help. Today today's episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one. This is a fantastic organization that I've been dealing with for years. I go to do their speaking events. They care about people with type one diabetes, they're doing terrific work for them and I'd like for you to go check them out at touched by type one.org. Go find out what they're up to, and then follow them on Facebook and Instagram. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing people together to redefine what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Jalen, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 14. He's 29. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. And then later at the end of this episode, you can hear my entire conversation with Jalen to hear more stories with Medtronic champions, go to Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox or search the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. Ever since it's gonna let you break away from some of the CGM norms you may be accustomed to no more weekly or bi weekly hassles of sensor changes. Never again, will you be able to accidentally bump your sensor off. You won't have to carry around CGM supplies and worrying about your adhesive lasting. Well, that's the thing of the past. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. Let's find out a tiny bit about you first. Jessica. Do you have type one diabetes?

"Jessica" 3:08
Yeah, since 1993 93

Scott Benner 3:11
How old were you then?

"Jessica" 3:13
22 months?

Scott Benner 3:15
Oh, no kidding. Yeah,

"Jessica" 3:17
I was I was a little tatertot

Scott Benner 3:19
that's gonna say that's young. How about that? 93,003 1323

"Jessica" 3:24
and 32. Now Wow, look

Scott Benner 3:26
at that. Good for you. How you doing?

"Jessica" 3:30
I'm with my title. I'm okay. I have some early stage complications. But I'm but since going on a POM those have kind of slowed down. What were they? Um, neuropathy and early stage renal disease,

Scott Benner 3:43
neuropathy and your feet, your hands. But but your eyes are perfect. Okay,

"Jessica" 3:48
perfect. It's just my kidneys. And I was really stressed out my blood pressure was high. And that doesn't know my jobs. And so they put me on a blood pressure mat. And guess what? Everything. The protein urea cleared right up.

Scott Benner 4:02
Oh, when they got your blood pressure under control. That's

"Jessica" 4:05
why my diabetes went better. Like when I went on a pump.

Scott Benner 4:08
How far into diabetes. Were you when that happened? I

"Jessica" 4:12
was 25 years in.

Scott Benner 4:13
Okay. Do you think? How would you categorize your care for the first 25 years your outcomes? I

"Jessica" 4:21
mean, I was on old school insulins with peaks and valleys called it's not even made anymore. It was called 90 and ultra Plantae. And regular like Lintian Ultra linty aren't even made anymore. Yeah. Did you have monitoring? Yeah, we would check my sugar four times a day

Scott Benner 4:37
with a finger stick or some other way. Yeah, finger stick. Do you know what your A onesies were when you were growing up?

"Jessica" 4:43
Back then they wanted you to ride higher. So they were between seven and eight.

Scott Benner 4:47
Okay. And you think they actually were and that's where they wanted you. Yeah. Okay.

"Jessica" 4:51
Yeah. Because they didn't want those to happen in kids because there was some study somewhere that said they wanted there was brain damage. From lows, I don't know what the new research shows, you know, because this was 30 years ago, but they didn't want all these lows, like I would get low and have seizures. Of course, every time I dropped, I would get diabetic seizures like every time I hit 40.

Scott Benner 5:15
And how often was that happening to you? Oh, God, I

"Jessica" 5:18
can't remember. But I do remember how much I hated the seizures because I would I would get tired after but I wasn't like an epileptic seizure. You know, where you don't remember. I could remember how much it hurt to jerk around like a fish out of water. I

Scott Benner 5:34
wonder if I wonder how much that had to do with the existing insulin? how it worked, because 40 is a little high to seize. You know what I mean? Although the monitoring probably wasn't terrific, either. So who would even know you don't I mean, like exactly what your blood sugar was. Right?

"Jessica" 5:47
And the meters were old. And sometimes we didn't check immediately. They just knew oh, god she seizing gave

Scott Benner 5:53
you a bunch of stuff, check your blood sugar. And now you're 40 Yeah, all right. I gotcha. Well, that's interesting. And in any other episode, we would keep talking about that. But because this is a cold one, we're gonna fast forward significantly. And you have

"Jessica" 6:08
you probably just like the background of how people how much damage they have based on the control from the backer, you know what I mean? Well,

Scott Benner 6:15
I just, I want I want people who are talking to know who they're talking to, and what kind of understanding of diabetes you have. Because we're going to be talking about it moving forward. And you know, this should just know who you are a little bit. I don't know about like, you know, I just followed the course of your conversation. So I if, you know, some people are fine, they don't have any complications. But I just want to know, you know, a little bit about when you were diagnosed, what you know, and what you've been through, you know, two different jobs of yours we're going to talk about today, let's do them in chronological order. So the first one is, tell me about what your job was in the nursing home. So

"Jessica" 6:48
I was a registered nurse, meaning, you know, of course, the duties of a nurse, she would do assessments, admissions, administer medications, monitor for side effects of medications, basic registered nurse duties that people are aware of that you would see in a regular hospital. It's just these are elderly, frail. Sometimes we'd get younger patients, sometimes with diabetes complications that could no longer take care of themselves, because they were, too they were falling apart from bad care, or just sheer self neglect, you know, earlier in

Scott Benner 7:21
life than you would expect. Okay, so there's kind of two different kinds of age groups. You see, you see older that you expect to see in a nursing home and you see slightly younger who have had enough medical issues that they've they've ended up there a little more quickly than then the older people. Just let's first of all, just talk about nursing home care to begin with. Let's say I bring my parent there. They live there. Now I leave, they take a couple of medications a day. They've got some, I don't know, they've got some exercises they have to do they live in in a room basically by themselves, right? The room, what's the room? They

"Jessica" 7:57
would actually I've been in one facility that will only work there for a month, but my predominant facility was three years. They'd have four roommates.

Scott Benner 8:05
How large was the room? Well, it

"Jessica" 8:07
was like you'd have a bed. Probably 10 feet a room and then another bed. Wow. For being across the hall. That's it? Yeah. We they fit for people. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 8:16
east, the West in between beds. Yeah. And north to south. And they

"Jessica" 8:20
were it was like you could hear everything. When you're doing care. There was only a curtain. You'd have up to four people or at least two. It depends on your insurance, though. If you had better insurance, you had a single room. You were on Medicare or Medicaid. You had all the roommates.

Scott Benner 8:37
Gotcha. So more money gets you fewer roommates in this first place. But not privacy. Does it get you better care? More money? No,

"Jessica" 8:46
because you still have nurses are still taking care of 26 or more patients.

Scott Benner 8:51
So 26 Plus patients on the floor? How many nurses to those 26. One,

"Jessica" 8:58
I would have 26 patients I was responsible for how long was your shift? Eight hours? Three to 11.

Scott Benner 9:08
One nurse for eight hours for 26 people. They all need something pretty consistently or no?

"Jessica" 9:15
Yeah, everybody's completely debilitated with multiple comorbidities. Okay.

Scott Benner 9:19
How do you even manage that? Like do you just run from buzzer buzzer? Or do you just wear to you do what you need to do and try to get to people for the extra stuff when you can. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the ever since CGM. Ever since cgm.com/juicebox. The ever since CGM is the only long term CGM with six months of real time glucose readings giving you more convenience, confidence and flexibility. And you didn't hear me wrong. I didn't say 14 days. I said six months. So if you're tired of changing your CGM sensor every week, you're tired of it. Falling off or the adhesive not lasting as long as it showed or the sensor failing before the time is up. If you're tired of all that, you really owe it to yourself to try the ever since CGM. Ever since cgm.com/juice box, I'm here to tell you that if the hassle of changing your sensors multiple times a month is just more than you want to deal with, if you're tired of things falling off and not sticking or sticking too much, or having to carry around a whole bunch of extra supplies in case something does fall off, then taking a few minutes to check out ever since cgm.com/juice box might be the right thing for you. When you use my link, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. Ever since cgm.com/juice box. This episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. And now we're going to hear from Medtronic champion Jalen.

Speaker 1 11:03
I was going straight into high school. So it was a summer heading into high school was that particularly difficult, unimaginable, you know, I missed my entire summer. So I went, I was going to a brand new school, I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was hard trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was. My hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling over an hour to the nearest endocrinologist for children. So you know, I outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown.

Scott Benner 11:37
Did you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 11:42
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just kept it to myself didn't really talk about it.

Scott Benner 11:57
Did you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in, I

Speaker 1 12:01
never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, it's all I see. You know, you can easily search Medtronic champions, you see people that pop up and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that motivates me started embracing more, you know, how I'm able to type one diabetes, to hear

Scott Benner 12:22
Jay Lynn's entire conversation stay till the very end, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community.

"Jessica" 12:33
Do what you need to do, and then get to the extra stuff if like they're on the floor, of course, because they bring their buzzer and weren't tended to quick enough, I would have to stop what I was doing attend to that somebody had chest pain we had somebody with or in the case of diabetes, a hypoglycemic episode, you'd be tending to those emergencies in between juggling the basic stuff like administering medications and assessments.

Scott Benner 12:57
Is there any advanced doctoring going on? Like, having a problem that isn't quite figured out yet? Do people actually try to diagnose what's going on? Or is it just there's orders from their doctor about medications? And we do that thing, and that's it?

"Jessica" 13:12
Um, well, if there is a change in condition, we would get them further care, we would call the doctor and say, hey, this person is exhibiting this, but typically, it's just you get admission orders from the hospital, because they would come from a hospital typically, okay, you know, because they, the hospital would determine they needed further care along with the family. Sometimes they would be directed MIT's from family, it just depended on the situation. They would get their basic orders, like basic, everybody got the same basic admission orders. Yeah. And then they would get their basic medications that they were prescribed by the doctor, and then they'd be seen once a month. If they were on Medicare. I can't speak on the private pay. But Medicare patients can only be seen once a month. And then, which was kind of challenging for some patients because they were so sick and their conditions were rapidly changing. Once a month wasn't enough. Yeah. So everything would be done by phone.

Scott Benner 14:07
Okay. And that would be through the nurse and through the facility, not because you're not asking the patients to speak for themselves at this point about their health, right? No, okay.

"Jessica" 14:17
Everything's done by the nurse.

Scott Benner 14:19
So then you're counting also on the nurse understanding what's happening and, and relaying it properly. Yes. Simple things like medication. I'm supposed to get something at noon. How likely is it? I'm actually going to get it at noon? We

"Jessica" 14:31
had an hour before or an hour after window to give medications. I would be given nine o'clock meds at 1030. Okay, but that 11

Scott Benner 14:41
I gotcha. Because your verse rushing around. You're literally just can you tell me if there's 26 rooms in a row? Do you go get all the medication for 20? Sounds like you wouldn't, you'd probably go back and forth over and over again. Right? Because you don't want to waste things up.

"Jessica" 14:54
Right? You don't want to miss anything or have a meta or No, I know some nurses would do the 26 but the thing is then if you have to hold a medication because their blood pressure or something was low, then you'd be picking through the cup trying to figure out what met it was okay. So I would just go back and forth and pop the pills out of the container, right? Because they came in little med cards. So I would just do that as I would go. But you're going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth to the med cart to the rooms.

Scott Benner 15:21
What about a simple thing? Like a person who's wearing an adult diaper? They wet themselves? How long could they sit in that before it can get handled? Sometimes

"Jessica" 15:30
I'd have one scene for 40 patients, and nurses can help a scene out but of course, we had our nursing duties to tend to write our medical care, but I'm a cena with 40 patients, they'd be waiting for hours.

Scott Benner 15:43
Tell people what Cena means. Certified Nursing Assistant. Okay. Now, my mom has passed now, but she spent the last couple of years of her life in an assisted living facility. A certified nursing assistant, in my personal experience was some poor kid with a part time job. Or some lady who was working her second job or something like that, running around like crazy. And if you ask them any question, they didn't know the answer to anything they were they're performing tasks. And that was it. Am I undervaluing that? Or Is that about right?

"Jessica" 16:17
That's about right, because they don't have a lot of clinical knowledge. A lot of them I had some really good ones that do basic things like keep the head of the bed up on a tube feeder, when you had those CNAs that had basic clinical knowledge. Like some of them would say, you know, this dizziness isn't normal. I'm not going to get them out of bed, because I'm going to go call the nurse. So some of them had more common sense than others.

Scott Benner 16:39
Okay, so the good ones could do a little more thinking, yeah. And

"Jessica" 16:43
then they would be able to tell the nurse when something was going on. Yeah, we had some of them that knew the signs and symptoms of like low blood sugar and are brittle diabetics. They'd be like, You know what, you're acting funny. I gotta I gotta get the nerve

Scott Benner 16:55
to get the nurse to tell me something. These these people and you difficult job being asked to run around like crazy for 26 people for eight hours. These other poor people are changing diapers and bowel movements and cleaning people up afterwards. Crazy good paying job, right? You drive a Lamborghini, you were making like a million dollars a year. Now? What is that? What is one of those scenes make?

"Jessica" 17:17
When I worked at the nursing home? About 1314? an hour?

Scott Benner 17:21
Yeah. So for $13 Now I get to change people's diapers all day. Right? What am I? What a joy. Okay, and you're completely anonymous. Jessica. So what were you making?

"Jessica" 17:32
I was making 30 Originally, and then I went pool as they call it. So I went up to 37 an hour

Scott Benner 17:39
30 to 37. And not just and you'd only been doing it for three years. Yeah. Did you consider that a reasonable compensation for what you were doing? No,

"Jessica" 17:48
no, the amount of tasks I had to do in liability I had on my license with that many patients, it was not reasonable.

Scott Benner 17:56
Explain that part to people liability on your license. What is that? So

"Jessica" 18:00
what would happen is if you provided poor care, you could be or something adverse happened based on the quality of the care you provided. They could file a complaint of your licenses, the state, the state with an investigate your license, and you could actually lose your job. Okay. And your license your livelihood, if there was an incident that something happened, which could be a lot of different things. So with 26 patients, I can't monitor all the minor changes. I can't prevent every wound from occurring, because I can't turn everybody every hour. People are getting bedsores. That's a liability. People are falling. That's a liability because I've had, it wasn't my patient, but I know one woman whose patient fell and died. Okay. And she was in hot water because they're like, Well, what did you do to prevent the fall?

Scott Benner 18:48
That was on her? Right? And then there's a layer above you, like there's the administration of the facility, and then the owners the ownership, which you don't know or see the administration's under as much pressure as you are? Right, because they want

"Jessica" 19:02
to pass the state inspection to get funding from CMS, the center of Medicare and Medicaid Services,

Scott Benner 19:08
okay. Okay. Even at your 37 at your highest number. You're 37 How much cash in your hand at the end of the week did you have? I

"Jessica" 19:16
was working part time. So I was working about 12 hours a week. So 37 times 12. I'd have to do that math, which wasn't very much,

Scott Benner 19:25
but you had full time you'd still be making 37. Right. Okay. Okay. Did you feel like the administration had your back as a nurse? No,

"Jessica" 19:36
they were clueless. They walked around like no idea what was going on.

Scott Benner 19:39
But there are people who previously had your job though, right? The deal when

"Jessica" 19:44
did the director of nursing the administrators typically a business person, they have to be a licensed nursing home administrator, but their background is business and finance. So

Scott Benner 19:55
it seems to me like your job is the difference between spinning plates and Being told if they fall and break, we're gonna sue you or you're gonna get fired or something like that. And the plates being on a shelf and just it's like, oh, it's your job to keep the plates there. Like, I can keep those from falling, meaning eventually the plates are going to fall. Like you just you can't avoid it forever, right. 26 older, frail people with a lot of comorbidities, you're running around like a lunatic. And this the place make money? Yes. Like, could they have hired two people for an eight hour shift is what I'm getting at? Yes, yeah. Okay. So this is a cost cutting thing. Would you say? A person in that situation living in that situation? Is it just like, I hate to say it like this, but is it storage? Like is the idea like, Listen, you don't have a lot of time left, we're just going to do our best here just so you don't suffer and that you're getting what you need. But like we're not, you're not looking for quality of life. At that point, right. In

"Jessica" 20:56
theory, you are always looking for quality of life, because that's how the patients maintain their well being. But the way the system is set up, you can't provide quality of care or quality of life, right? I couldn't do range of motion like you're supposed to do. I couldn't sit everybody up. You know what you're supposed to I couldn't turn everybody like you're supposed to the basic nursing stuff you learn in fundamentals in nursing, I couldn't do because of time, because of time constraints Exactly. Like in nursing school, they recommend people that can't sleep, try something like a warm lotion and BackRub like, you know, nice tasks like that. But the elderly appreciate. Couldn't do it. Like everything, just open them up on pills to get them to fall asleep. Instead of trying non pharmacological intervention. Just dope them up on pain meds and put them to sleep that way. Yeah.

Scott Benner 21:43
Yeah, I had to stop them from doing that to my mom. At one point. I was like, Hey, I think my mom's high all the time. What are we doing? And it wasn't what she was looking for either. I even thought like stuff that they would say like, oh, there's a community room she can go down to, we're not going to help her get there. Or you know, whatever. Yeah, like, but if she can get there, great. And then if she walked out in the hallway and made one wrong turn, they'd be like, Your mom doesn't seem to know where she is. Like, it's a big, like, expansive corridors, like she just got there. Like, I wouldn't imagine she'd know where she was, you know what I mean? And then they act like, well, so she can't go to the community room. Is everything felt like an excuse to limit or not do something? Yes, yeah. Do you really mean and when stuff didn't happen? It was kind of hilarious. So in my mom's room, at the first place, she was there's, you know, a cord, your pole for a bell, right? Goes to the nursing station. So my mom falls in the bathroom, and she pulls the cord. But it doesn't work. It never alarms, the nursing station, nothing happens. So luckily, my mom was trying to go to the bathroom and tidy herself up right before she knew somebody was going to come in. So she only spent about 10 minutes on the floor. But she was 10 minutes kind of folded on herself not in a precarious position. But luckily for her someone was coming in. So she got found pretty quickly. And that made me Of course, call the place and say look, you know, she pulled the bell, the Bell didn't work. And she was oh, no, you know, we'll we'll check into that. Then no one ever gets back to me. And then I press it. And it's like, oh, yeah, the wall. So there's a problem with the bail system, but we're getting it fixed. And I was like, Okay, great. But I called back in two weeks, is the bail system fixed? No, I'm gonna call you in seven days is the bail system fixed. Now this went on and on and on until I really got upset and pressured it, we're gonna get somebody out. We can't get somebody out here because of COVID. And I said, you can't get somebody out there to fix the Bell system because of COVID. I was like, that doesn't make any sense. What is COVID have to do with any of this? And then they didn't have an answer for that. And then finally, one day, I was in my car. And Jessica, you don't? I mean, you know me if you listen to the podcast pretty well, but you don't know me know me. Scott in his 20s didn't have a good temper. So it's got as an adult as okay. But I get a call one day I'm sitting in my car, I pull over to the side of the road, and a person gets on the phone and says, Hey, we just wanted to let you know, when your mom fell. People didn't come not because the Bell didn't work in her room. The bell in her room works fine. And I went, Okay. And I said, Why didn't they come? And she said, The Bell didn't work at the nurse's station. So the system works fine. It's just at the nurse's station, there was a problem. And I went, No, this system doesn't work fine. If one and it's a walkie talkie if one of them works and the other one doesn't work. The walkie talkies don't work, because now your mom's walkie talkie works. And we had this inane conversation that went on for a couple of minutes until if I'm being honest, I screamed at her and hung up the phone. And I believe part of what I screamed was fix it and 24 hours or I'm calling the state. And then 24 hours later, they it was fixed. It was amazing. Yeah,

"Jessica" 24:57
well, this is a little outside track, but I was Allstate. I did it for eight buttons. I was a state licensing surveyor for nursing homes. With that I was going through and making sure they were following the licensure guidelines. And something like a call bell not working could be a tag, like you said, yeah. Because that puts the patients in danger. Anything that puts the patients in danger, it results in a fine. Yeah,

Scott Benner 25:20
as crazy as that all was, by the way, and by the also in the time that that that whole conversation was going on, like I told you weeks into a couple of months, they put literally bells, like you would see on a desk like you remember, like old movies, you'd walk in, there wasn't somebody manning the desk, and you ding ding the bell, they put those in their rooms next to their bed, I'm like, Well, how does that help her in the bathroom? Like, I don't, what are we doing so they were literally ringing a bell to get people. For a while, it was pretty horrible. Anyway, to me, the amount of times that the person I was on the phone with the amount of times that she insisted that if one side of the walkie talkie worked and the other side of the walkie talkie worked, and you were holding the one that worked, the system worked. That told me everything I needed to know about that place for the rest of my life. She had something in her mind that she thought would keep me from being able to sue them. And she was not going to she wouldn't say the system wouldn't work. If both sides didn't work. She said your mom's worked fine. She just kept saying that. And it was I was like, Okay, well, I'm I'm, obviously the truth isn't going to come out here. Let's talk about people with type one diabetes. In that setting. What is being done for them? Your type one is just how you'd want to be taken care of tell me the whole thing, really. So

"Jessica" 26:41
what would happen is you would be on AC HS blood sugar checks, meaning before meals and at bedtime. So you'd get checked four times a day, just like I did in the back in the day when I was first diagnosed. So they're doing an old school, right? Yeah. And then they would be on what's called for insulin a sliding scale. I don't know if you know what that is from. Okay, so from when your daughter had it, I don't know if she was on a sliding scale

Scott Benner 27:08
she never has. But I've talked to 1000 people have done it. So yeah, so

"Jessica" 27:12
it works like you know, zero to 150, no insulin 151 to 200, you get x amount of units, 200 to 250, so many units, and so on and so forth. And the scale typically stops at 400. And then at 400. You give 11 units, just a example number, and then you call the doctor immediately. Okay? So it's like, you're not getting meal coverage, you're just getting so many units.

Scott Benner 27:42
So could I, before a meal be under a certain level, and they would even give insulin for the food? Correct. So if my blood sugar is 149, and you won't give me insulin, typically no. Okay, in most sliding scales, but I'm about to eat. So you come back to me before the next meal, where I'm assuming you find my blood sugar in the three hundreds, and then I get insulin for that.

"Jessica" 28:07
Yes. Oh, so it's kind of like you're good at breakfast, because you get your Lantis you know, at night, which typically it was a lot of our facility use a lot of land tests. Okay, that was what was on formulary. You know, and this was it's just it goes off the formulary, right, so you get your Lantis typically a bedtime. And then you'd usually get enough Lantis to where your blood sugar was great at night. So you were almost like feeding the Basal, you know, because you wake up great overnight, and then they would expect that sliding scale to cover you for breakfast, or the blanches to cover you for breakfast, which we all know Basal rates isn't supposed to cover a meal, yeah, you would only get meal coverage after like a month or more a bad blood sugars, then they might give you two units for a meal, like a very small amount for meal coverage. But that was only when the sliding scale failed.

Scott Benner 29:01
So were most of those people living with higher blood sugars, correct? Yeah. And that affects their ability to be happy, I would imagine. And if they're in the middle of healing, that also slows that down.

"Jessica" 29:13
I would just, it's not conducive to their well being. Right, right.

Scott Benner 29:17
But it's not a consideration. Nobody says Mary has a wound on her arm. Let's try to keep her blood sugar tighter so it heals more quickly or so that we don't talk about like that. No,

"Jessica" 29:27
we just do wound care like the wound care that the wound care dock orders, but the diabetes perspective is never considered in that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 29:34
So these people are basically being treated like an old car that's falling apart that we can afford to replace. So we'll just fix whatever falls onto the ground and then hope the bumper stay stuck. And if it doesn't, we'll glue it back on until the door handle falls off but we're not trying to we're not trying to renovate the car I guess is what I'm saying.

"Jessica" 29:54
They're not sure I don't know what the ANC goal is of the ADA. Now, like I said, My date was below seven. I think it's still below seven. We weren't shooting for that. It was just like you said, just repair on their agency came back at eight, we might modify the insulin, depending on the patient, right. But they weren't shooting for an agency of 5.5. Yeah.

Scott Benner 30:16
Do you know if I asked you what the average amount of time is a person stays alive after they enter a facility.

"Jessica" 30:24
We have patients that were there for 10 years, but those ones were generally had less conditions. They might have just had like severe disability like muscle weakness and wasting, and they were private pay. So the private pay ones lived a little longer, because most of them were less sick.

Scott Benner 30:39
Okay, so private pay people that would indicate I had, I can't live at home by myself anymore. I don't have family to live with. And I've got some cash so I can afford to move into another place. So they show up a little sooner. But they're not as sick when they get there. Yes. Okay. The sicker you are when you get there, the less time you have. Correct. Okay. How would you feel if your diabetes was managed the way there's this horrible, that's the sliding

"Jessica" 31:09
scale is what we did back in the day, when I was first diagnosed. And my dad recently looked at my logs, and he goes now I'm surprised you're not dead today. And he was he's that type A, like personality, like perfection. Yeah. But we didn't have half unit syringes. And I was, you know, 22 months. So you're guessing game based on one unit and eyeballing a half a unit on a syringe. So he like I said, he looked at those numbers and said, How the hell do you not have much bigger problems? Yeah, yeah. And he tried his absolute hardest, like to have a normal childhood, yet have good numbers.

Scott Benner 31:48
Jessica, if I Google, how long does the average person live in a in the next word that populate self populates in Google is America but the second one is a nursing home. That's funny, and I don't I think it's a pretty average question I'd ask the current average length of stay in a long term care facility is two and a half years. Yeah,

"Jessica" 32:13
that sounds about right. If you look at admission dates on the computer, and then adapt date.

Scott Benner 32:17
Yeah, that's on NJ that's from nj.gov. Probably because I'm in New Jersey. So Google fed me back something local. There was tough, because you had that thought when you're when my mom went in, like, I felt like, oh, like it felt like you're on a countdown. Like she can live two and a half years. Honestly, it worked out almost, you know, almost exactly like that. So then the question is, is society doing something wrong? And are they doing it just because of money? Like so if all those people no matter how beat up they were, if they all had their own nursing care and could see a doctor more than once a month? Do you think they'd last longer than they do? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Is that a reasonable thing to ask? And as you're a person who's got type one, you worked in that setting, even if all the money was available, and the facility was willing to spend it and put all the nurses in there? Like how much would that change their lives? Do you think?

"Jessica" 33:12
significantly? Really? Okay, yeah, because no one feels good at 300. We'd have patients writing in the three hundreds all day. But then it's like I would do that previously in life, because we had didn't have CGM in my mid 20s. I was on Medicaid. So I didn't have a CGM. So I purposely write high, because I couldn't feel my lows. And I pass out at work right at that I passed out at the nursing home twice. Okay. And that was scary. They almost dial 911 for one of them. You know why? Because you can't have the nurse go down.

Scott Benner 33:44
So I laughed, because there's not one more nurse there to help you. That's the part that made me laugh.

"Jessica" 33:51
So luckily, I had one nurse that was able to help with the dementia Ward, which was like harder because the people would refuse care. You know, I'd get hit all the time that they took me off the dementia Ward upon my request, because it was just too crazy. But yeah, I passed out and my coworker slapped me across the face to get in response to pain, literally, like, slap me frontwards and backwards. And then she forced us down my throat like I could suck with a straw just enough to get the juice out my throat out of it. Wow.

Scott Benner 34:23
So I tell you keep your blood sugar higher. And but now that monitoring exists, you were CGM. Now. Yeah, yeah. And I love it. You don't keep your blood sugar 300 anymore. No, no. Okay. Is there any way in that setting that you could manage someone who couldn't help themselves? The way you're managing now?

"Jessica" 34:47
No, not what the number of patients I had that average 26 divided by eight. I can't I'd have to do a calculator. How many minutes you had to care for them, but it was less it was like 15 minutes if that okay. If I'm only seeing you 15 minutes a shift, I can't manage you as tightly as I, as I could. Yeah. And then we're not trained in pump therapy. Most people don't come in on pump therapy. And depending on the state, Medicare, Medicaid, or Medicare might not cover pump therapy. So the facilities take away anything that would provide tight control, because they don't want the liability of somebody accidentally overdosing on insulin with a pop. So

Scott Benner 35:27
did you ever see an older adult who just really understood their diabetes? And like, listen, I can do this? Or do they lose their ability to take care of themselves once they get there? Legally, we

"Jessica" 35:37
had a lot of people that were alert and oriented times for person place time situation, and they knew that they weren't being managed, and they're demanding to call the doctor. Right, you know, because they knew what was up. They knew it wasn't healthy to be 300. And have the nurse laws a fair use a sliding scale? Yeah, because they would just be on the yo yo, you're giving them no units for zero to 49, then they're up to 400, then you're slamming them with 11 units. And then they skip their meal because they're not hungry because they feel so crappy, right? No one likes being 400. And then you're slamming 11 units, and um, which I know everybody's insulin needs vary. But then they bottom out. Yeah. So they just get on this yo, yo, and I can't provide the care. But I know that they need

Scott Benner 36:22
right. That's never gonna happen. There's no fix to it. Right? Correct. Yeah, this is slightly off topic question. But I want people to have some context. Did you ever experience a family, bring an older person in get them settled? Say, hey, we'll see you Monday and literally never come back.

"Jessica" 36:43
All the time? Where they literally abandoned?

Scott Benner 36:45
Yes, yeah. So I learned how common that was from a friend of mine. And it really did shock me. So they get their parents to the facility, get them checked in, and then just ghost them. Like don't pay the bills. Don't ever talk to them again. They just disappear. Yes, yeah, that's not uncommon. Yeah. Okay. Well, we're all we're all doomed. That's fine. Least you picked a good name, Jessica. That's nice. We can be happy about that for a couple of minutes. Can I ask you the first time you realize that happened? What did you think? Do you remember the first time you realize this person has been abandoned here?

"Jessica" 37:25
It breaks your heart because we become your family, you know, and I can't provide you that same emotional support that I could if I had less patients. And those patients need a little more love. We would be hugging patients, you know, the ones that were allowing us to, if patients crying and you'd be holding their hand, but you're holding their hand for two minutes, not until they're done crying, right?

Scott Benner 37:50
You're like, Okay, I gotta go. I have to say that the people that my mom intersected with personally in her room were always terrific, always. And nobody was unkind. I always felt like you're describing like, there's, listen, there's not enough time for me to do the thing that needs to be done here. And if you want something to happen, you have to do it yourself. Like I would have to call doctors and browbeat them into just doing their jobs. Like Like, just really just push and push and push. I had a general practitioner who was mismanaging my mom's blood pressure, for example. And I finally just said to him, like, why won't you send her to a cardiologist? Like you're using a really old medication? It doesn't seem like you know, what, what's going on here? Like, why don't we give her to somebody that could help her. And then he did that. And then they were able to bring her blood pressure down. But for the months that he messed around with it, she couldn't get her cancer infusions to help keep her cancer away. And then my mom dies eventually, because her cancer comes back. But my mom's cancer comes back, possibly, because this guy messed around getting her blood pressure down. And so she couldn't get these infusions that were meant to help keep the cancer away after they've been removed. It feels hopeless. While they're there, everything about it felt hopeless. And the only thing that kept my mom from feeling hopeless, was her trying to keep up her good attitude. And that's the other thing is she's trying to keep up that good attitude. While basically most of her life is puzzle books and television and music and not much else in a tiny room, and nowhere to go. And nobody to help her go somewhere if she wanted to. So here's a hard question. And then we're going to move to your next job. If you got to the age where this was going to happen to you, you were going to have to go into an assisted living facility. But you had a switch, you could just turn your lights off and and be done. Would you turn yourself off or go into the facility?

"Jessica" 39:44
Turn myself off. You would because I don't want to die of a bedsore. I don't want to die of diabetes complications where you suffer you know like with the going to die dialysis being poked and prodded out there. Like I said, bed sores are very common in nursing homes because people are not being turned every hour like they're supposed to be. I don't want to die of drowning in my own fluid from heart failure because they couldn't get my blood pressure under control. I mean, just the variety of problems that occur. I would just like you said, I would just keep the switch off and call it a night.

Scott Benner 40:23
And even personal like, affirming personal interactions with family, there are too few and far between to be meaningful right.

"Jessica" 40:33
Now families like we had one lady where her debt hurt songs only concerned if she was eating. That's it. Because when people stop eating, that's when you that's when you're ready to go. Yeah, so he would call me every week, at the same time. And it was my shift. It was I don't remember if it was a Monday or Tuesday, but he would call and I would just tell him, it was a five minute conversation. Your mom is eating, I pull up the screen about 25 to 50% per meal. And he'd go is she taking her supplement? Because we'd have venture shakes? You probably know what venture shakes are. Yeah. You know, we've all seen them on the TV, is she taking her ensure at least Yes. And eventually she was eating 10% of a meal. You know, it got less than last minute she passed. But the song appreciated just a nurse, like calling him and telling him, this is how your mom is doing.

Scott Benner 41:24
So he could understand what was happening is horrible for everybody through by the way, I'll tell you like, I'd go visit my mom a lot. And by mom, I'll be back I'll see on Friday, like but you know, you go out the room and you close the door. You just stand there for a second and you're just like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm leaving. I can't believe I'm leaving her here. I feel terrible. She must be doing the same thing on the other side of that door that I'm doing right now. She must be sitting there thinking, oh my god, I can't believe he left. I can't believe he's not going to be back till Friday. Like, you know, it's just, it's tough. Listen, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have quality of life at the end of their life. But for the ones that don't, it isn't great. So okay, so they're not getting good care for their diabetes. They're the it's just like I said, you're just you're gluing the mirror back on when it falls off. But we're never going to, we're never going to pull the car over for an hour, pull all the mirrors and bumpers and doors off, strip it down payment and start over again. It's just let's see if we can keep this thing together. As for as long as we can drive it down the road. Your next job, where did you work at the next place? And is that where you are now? Yes. Okay. It is

"Jessica" 42:27
a forensic psych facility, which is state operated and run for patients that have committed a crime and they go there instead of jail because they were I don't like the term crazy, but they were crazy and were mentally ill at the time of their crime. Okay. I won't say the legal status because that could identify the state but as a particular legal status.

Scott Benner 42:48
Okay. All right. So people ended up there because either they were mentally ill and committed a crime or mentally ill temporarily while they committed a crime or said that they were once they got the court and the court believed them. That's pretty much how you end up there. Okay. People who have killed people. Okay, yeah. So from murder to something

"Jessica" 43:08
like maybe attempted murder or vehicular manslaughter. Okay, we had one guy that had bipolar disorder, and was driving a car recklessly and harmed a person,

Scott Benner 43:19
I think. All right. So you're running the gamut there with that situation? Now, are these people they're there for their? For the the mental health side of it. They don't necessarily have physical problems, right?

"Jessica" 43:33
Correct. But we do get people with physical problems, right? Because, like right now we're taking care of it. We have a type one on my unit. Okay.

Scott Benner 43:41
So let's talk about that. That specific situation, type one diabetes on that unit? Vi I guess first of all, how many people are you taking care of in a shift? How long is a shift?

"Jessica" 43:51
12 hours? You have two nurses for a house of 20.

Scott Benner 43:56
Well, that's better. Are you getting paid any better any worse? Slightly

"Jessica" 44:00
better, but I have more experience. Now. I'm making about 40 an hour now,

Scott Benner 44:05
making 40 for having more experience. You don't get a VIG for them having murdered somebody and you still have to help them. That doesn't work. Okay. Are you ever frightened for your own safety?

"Jessica" 44:16
Sometimes? Yeah. Because Because these patients have committed a violent crime they murdered somebody one time they lost their marbles murdered somebody one time. What if they go What if their mental illness start cycling again? Are they going to become violent?

Scott Benner 44:30
And you are in a room with them? They're not restrained or anything like that, right? They're just, they're living. Yesterday,

"Jessica" 44:36
I had three guys almost beat each other up. I had to get like one I had to pull off and say you go sit down in your chair. You put your shirt back on and sit down. I was firm. I mean, maybe not the most therapeutic but these two guys needed somebody blonde and short right? So I was like, put your shirt on it sit down.

Scott Benner 44:56
First of all, why is your shirt not on and secondly, stop hitting it. What do you You know what they were fighting about some

"Jessica" 45:01
girlfriend thing there was a bunch of girlfriend drama and they were playing a card game and the other guy was mocking him because he lost. So one guy was mad because he stole his girlfriend and and the other guy was mad at the same guy. Because he was mocking him over a card game. These

Scott Benner 45:14
guys have girlfriends. Yeah, like

"Jessica" 45:17
gruff six units.

Scott Benner 45:18
Oh, the girls that are other women in the facility. They're not people coming to visit them that are their girlfriends. Sometimes they are really, okay. And how many people in a room in that situation? Usually, like if

"Jessica" 45:29
we have visitation that's pre scheduled, we have a staff supervising of course, because they're not allowed to like, be too personal, like a peck on the cheek, maybe one peck on the lips, and then that's a wrap. Okay, you're not allowed to sit there and get touchy feely with each other. Right. But on other units, we have six units total, I work on the intake unit, the initial admission unit. So it's a little wilder,

Scott Benner 45:51
because they haven't settled into their lives yet. Correct. And once they settle in how many people live in a room? Are they singles are there multiple people in those rooms, on

"Jessica" 46:01
the intake room at singles on the intake unit, because patients are too unstable. And then on the regular units, that's about two per it's two people per room.

Scott Benner 46:10
Two people per room, okay? Okay, varying age ranges, very young, very old.

"Jessica" 46:16
We've got 18 all the way up to their 60s, sometimes seven days. And if

Scott Benner 46:22
that 18 year old, murdered somebody and had a license, they'll live there the rest of their life. It's

"Jessica" 46:28
a privilege system. I won't go into that. But they could be released early, kinda like probation. But they're still under the jurisdiction of the court. You know, they have to follow the rules of their release. If they don't they come right back

Scott Benner 46:41
to the hospital. Places always full, never an open bed. Right

"Jessica" 46:45
now we got a few open beds, but we're filling up again, we've got to get people moved along to the release unit. But that's all up to the courts.

Scott Benner 46:52
There's this cycle throughout the year. I don't know how this is gonna sound but you know, I run a pretty big Facebook community. And there are certain times a year that people are a little less stable than other times of year, like Thanksgiving to New Years is one of those spots, for example, like do you see that? ebbs and flows?

"Jessica" 47:11
Yeah, because the holidays are hard on people because like, daily can get visits for the patients that do have families in the area. But we had a couple people, one guy who was just passing through,

Scott Benner 47:21
and he did committed a crime, and now he's there. Yeah, he's got a 10

"Jessica" 47:25
and a half year sentence. And he served about six of them. And but a holidays, he's just calling his family. He's not there enjoying the cranberries and no stopping. And, you know,

Scott Benner 47:36
is there a moment when somebody's been there long enough that you see them as the person they used to be? Like, do they get to a point sometimes where you're like, oh, my gosh, like you don't even belong here anymore? Like, how does that work?

"Jessica" 47:51
Well, hopefully they get their meds right. Not everybody is severely mentally ill some of them just had a psychotic break. Like we have a postpartum depression case that really breaks my heart because she was postpartum and couldn't get the help that she needed, you know that. So she was temporarily insane. She wasn't fully but we keep her on her meds to keep away any signs of depression, but she's not on heavy duty meds, right, like antipsychotics, then we've got other patients where we hope to get through any psychotics up where they're good. And they, they're completely normal. Yeah, like they can talk coherently. They know what's going on, they're not hallucinating anymore.

Scott Benner 48:27
So they almost feel like they're experiencing that place the way you are. Yeah. And I

"Jessica" 48:33
also live with a serious mental illness. And they're, like me, like functional and you're like, Wow, you could go get a job if you wanted. You're

Scott Benner 48:42
having not made that mistake away from being me. And do you ever feel like and I'm having made your mistake away from being you ever think about that? Not that we're here to dig through you a little bit.

"Jessica" 48:54
I'm like, you always wonder like, wow, how did I get so lucky to have the treatment team that I did? That didn't let me down? Right?

Scott Benner 49:00
Because that's, that's how you see what's happened to them sometimes? Yeah. Okay. All right. So if one of those people has type one diabetes, how are you managing for them? Oh, we'll

"Jessica" 49:12
call him. Paul. We got two patients. I've managed one of them's now on a different unit. But we'll call the one guy Paul. Paul was managed with a sliding scale, like in my long term care facility, right. His numbers were so up and down. He was like, we weren't sure if he was a brutal diabetic as they used to call it. Yeah. Or if we were just mismanaging it. I thought the facility was mismanaging it because I know how to treat Type Line, right? I know how to use Lantis and carb counting and correction factors. Again, just a sliding scale. Yeah. Yeah. And you couldn't eat snacks, but he would eat snacks because what would happen if you need carbohydrates uncovered? They go up. So we weren't covering it and the guy was hungry like in between meals. He wasn't like overweight. He was very active actually. And poor Paul would just skyrocket. But it was like, Sorry, dude, I can't give you when someone, you know when I would feel bad because I know I just Bolus whenever I want to eat right? Yeah. But we don't have that option. It's just before check the blood sugar before meals, bedtime and as needed. Like if they're showing signs or symptoms of hypoglycemia. Well, I gotcha. So I just Paul, though, I have nightmares of him. By his sugars were so badly managed, he'd go to 40 to 401 day. And

Scott Benner 50:36
it doesn't matter because we're not actually actually proactively doing anything. We're just doing something on a schedule of when the meal comes up. That's it. I mean, I can't imagine that this is much different. There's no answer to this question, either. We can't let Paul have his own medication, right? He can't be in charge. Even if he was younger and not sick. You wouldn't put insulin in his care, I imagine. No.

"Jessica" 50:58
And it was sad because we wanted him he was also illiterate. Okay, English was not his first language. So poor Paul was different language speaking without revealing what state I work for. And it was like the one doctor wanted to put him on a pump. We don't have a patient with a pump. But we had another patients to the facility to get on a libre, right? Because he said, I want to be on the best control possible. So he successfully sued the state to be on a libre, because they're very, you know, they're more expensive than checking the sugar four times a day. Yeah. But he had to sue the state to get that right.

Scott Benner 51:34
Is that a thing? He actually did? Or did his family step in and do it for him? He had his

"Jessica" 51:39
lawyer do it, him and his lawyer because he knew that this tech was out there because his family told him about it. And they watch TV, right? So they can see, they see. And they watch cable where all the ads are. I saw libre

Scott Benner 51:49
ad last night during the Oscars. So they're watching it and they see

"Jessica" 51:53
this tech, and then they're like, why can't I have that? And they were like, Oh, well, we're not going to pay for it. So he sued, and he got it. It was otherwise he'd have to pay fight pay him out. But now

Scott Benner 52:03
that you see the blood sugar constantly, are you doing anything about it?

"Jessica" 52:07
They referred him to endocrinology. Is he

Scott Benner 52:11
getting better care now is the CGM answer.

"Jessica" 52:14
I would say it's a big proponent, because you can see that we would never do something as advanced as carb counting, just because a lot of my nurses are not trained in it. They don't know how to carb count. Half of them are bad at math. The computer system doesn't permit that. Okay, like the medical record, the one we use does not permit that carb counting with the correction factor and all that. It was horrible. Because I mean, it's numbers. We saw how bad they were. Just

Scott Benner 52:42
to get did you just say half the nurses are bad at math? Yes. Like, I mean, counting,

"Jessica" 52:50
like doing division, like I have 32 carbs and it's a ratio of one to eight, like the kid we got now. He's 18 diagnosed at nine. Right? This is a different patients. So Paul was our bad non English speaking diabetic. We have a new one. We'll call him Jonathan. Okay. So Jonathan knows how to carb count. And apparently when he was in juvenile hall, they would do carb counting. I didn't know that. But his ratio, he goes, my ratio is one to eight, which I laughed about because I'm in a one to eight ratio,

Scott Benner 53:20
like twinsies.

"Jessica" 53:24
So I was like, okay, so I go, because he's like, if I eat 32 carbs, I get four units. I goes to your ratios. One day, he goes, Yeah, what I think so. But he knew we ought to do that. Yeah. So he knew it. And he's like, why aren't we doing this for me? And I said, Well, the doctor wants to see a pattern of your numbers. He goes, You guys are just giving me numbers based on my number. You're not doing anything to manage the carbs. Why am I not getting insulin with my meals? Even if I'm 140? Yeah, same thing you asked earlier, right? This kid knows how to manage his numbers because he committed his crime in his early teens, and he sentenced to life. But he knew how to manage his sugars, which was really hard because he knows what's up. And I'm sitting here, I know what's up. And he's just, we're not giving him the care of it he deserves or the care he was receiving before. He's 300. I was like, I looked at my coworker yesterday is we give this kid 11 units because he was 318. He goes, You know, I'm like, this kid's gonna be blind by 30.

Scott Benner 54:25
So you know, what's happening? Does the administration understand it? I

"Jessica" 54:29
have nothing against nurse practitioners, but they're not endocrinology specialists. They're not an endocrinology and T. They're a generalized nurse practitioner. Yeah. So they start simple. And then they might refer them to endo if they can admit that they're not doing a good job. But it takes a little bit of their ego away, Jessica,

Scott Benner 54:47
for people who might listen to this and say, oh, yeah, sure. These people don't know. But look at the places they're working. This is where we house people that we've given up on or who have, you know, committed crimes, but you could go be a nurse in a regular hospital. No trouble, right? Yeah, yeah. Your credential. Do you understand? You could handle it? Yeah,

"Jessica" 55:07
I've worked in a hospital before. Right. Okay.

Scott Benner 55:10
I just, you know, not I don't think that by the way, I just imagined it's possible that some people could be listening and thinking that you're the nursing equivalent of the lady that makes the fries. You know what I mean? Like, but that's not the case like you, you're an RN, just like everybody else.

"Jessica" 55:26
I'm an RN, just like everybody else. Now, sight gets a bad rap, because we're not the heroes. But we treat the patients that nobody wants society's throwaways. Because mental illness still has a strong stigma attached to it. Of course, my patients have committed heinous crimes, but I still treat them with the same level of respect that I would somebody that hasn't committed a crime, they get the same amount of love and care that my long term patients did, or that I wanted to go to my long term care patients. I get upset when they're sad. I get upset when their blood sugar's aren't being managed, you know, I feel like that bad for him and pity. But I have empathy for my patients, despite them doing horrible thing.

Scott Benner 56:04
Yeah. When you offer them compassion, do you see them change? Sometimes?

"Jessica" 56:08
Yeah. You know, like I, the one guy that got into a fight yesterday, he asked to go outside for a walk. So I took them outside, you know, to help them cool down. And he appreciated that we just talked for a little bit. I told them, hey, what you did was not appropriate, he reflected on it. And he cooled off. He appreciated that.

Scott Benner 56:26
It makes me wonder, it's not what we're talking about. But it makes me wonder if like, maybe if somebody would have done that for him when he was younger, or something if maybe like his situation wouldn't have changed. I know some people's mental illness is unstoppable. But I wonder how many times people are kind of pushed into situations as well. Anyway? Well, I'm gonna say again, what I've been saying at the end of these cold wind episodes for a long time, I don't know why I thought this was a good idea. But I can tell you, they're actually really popular. So people enjoy listening to these conversations. I think it's because I mean, for me, like, again, you didn't say anything here today that shocked me. But it's still eye opening for someone to say it out loud. You know, you're gonna send your mom to this place. And let's be honest, this is the end the you know what I mean? Like, if you think they're, they're living like a pony running in a field, that's not probably not happening, if they have health concerns on top of that, they're going to be managed as well as possible. But, you know, possibly by one nurse every eight hours for 26 different people, which sounds. It sounds like you must have gotten there, taking a deep breath started working. And before you knew it, it was eight hours was over. Yeah, but I can't imagine there was even like a half a second in there anywhere.

"Jessica" 57:44
Don't you didn't like I said I would have to ride it. 200 Because otherwise I pass out. I was clocking 24,000 steps a day. Just take as you're running

Scott Benner 57:52
around like crazy. Yeah. About them. Is there anything I haven't talked about or asked you about that? I should have something that no,

"Jessica" 57:59
it's just like I said in the psych facility, the blood sugar's are managed just as bad as long term care. And it breaks my heart because I got, like I said, the 18 year old I don't want him blind. Yes, he did something horrible. But he's actually like, nice. And I would never wish diabetes Complications upon anyone.

Scott Benner 58:18
Yeah. Well, listen, if we're going to house people, it's got to be compassionately at the very least, I mean, I know you can't do something, if one of my nurses just judges me for what I've done. And they don't want to help me anymore. But they will. But they're just I'm going to get bare bones from them, because they're not as compassionate maybe as you are. But you also have, it's interesting, isn't it? You have a personal reason to be able to maybe understand their situation a little better. I mean, you can share your thing if you want, but I'm not asking you to, but like, you have a bit of a connection. Is that right?

"Jessica" 58:46
I would say so. Yeah. Because I live with it. I am actually all job more medicated than some of my other patients to keep my condition stable. And I function very well. Nobody knows. I told that to coworkers. And they're like, I would have never guessed. So I managed to pull off the stable appearance.

Scott Benner 59:06
Are you stable, you just appearing stable?

"Jessica" 59:11
At least at least at work.

Scott Benner 59:12
One day, you don't think one day that the like, somebody is going to look over from the other bed and go didn't used to be my nurse

"Jessica" 59:22
when I wasn't taking because I go up and down taking my meds because there are pain to take. And I also have to face living with a really bad disorder. It's a story. I'm more apt to take care of my diabetes in the mental illness. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:32
Well, this has been something I really do appreciate you coming on and, and sharing this with me. It's a it's a unique perspective. And it's also kind of nice to hear that no matter what we did for my mom. I don't know if this makes it better or not. But at least I know I wasn't missing something. But this is the situation what I saw happening is really what happens that she wasn't being treated any more poorly than anybody else was when she was being true. and poorly, I might opt for the switch to so you know, Jessica. Alright, thank you very much. Hold on for one second for me, I want to talk to you at the end here bio. Okay

Jalen is an incredible example of what so many experience living with diabetes, you show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes define you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story, visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox And look out online for the hashtag Medtronic champion. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoy my full conversation with Jalen coming up in just a moment. A huge thanks to a longtime sponsor touched by type one, please check them out on Facebook, Instagram, and at touched by type one.org. If you're looking to support an organization that supporting people with type one diabetes, check out touched by type one. A huge thank you to ever since CGM for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Are you tired of having to change your sensor every seven to 14 days with the ever sent CGM, you just replace it once every six months via a simple in office visit. Learn more and get started today at ever since cgm.com/juice box if you're ready to level up your diabetes care. The diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast focuses on simple strategies for living well with type one. The pro tip episodes contain easy to understand concepts that will increase your knowledge of how insulin works and so much more. My daughter has had an A one C between five two and six for since 2014 with zero diet restrictions, and some of those years include her in college. This information works for children, adults, and for the newly diagnosed and for those who have been struggling for years. Go to juicebox podcast.com and click on diabetes pro tip in the menu or head over to Episode 1000 of the Juicebox Podcast to get started today. With the episode newly diagnosed we're starting over and then continue right on to Episode 1025. That's the entire Pro Tip series episode 1000 to 1026. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. And now me trying to say hello friends. Hello friends. Hello friends Hello Hello friends and welcome to episode 1179 of the Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com

---

Please support the sponsors

The Juicebox Podcast is a free show, but if you'd like to support the podcast directly, you can make a gift here. Recent donations were used to pay for podcast hosting fees. Thank you to all who have sent 5, 10 and 20 dollars!

Donate