#536 Twinning with Rachel

September 4, 2021Scott Benner

Rachel is a D-mom, a therapist and a fun person to talk with.

You can always listen to the Juicebox Podcast here but the cool kids use: Apple Podcasts/iOS - Spotify - Amazon Music - Google Play/Android - iHeart Radio - Radio Public, Amazon Alexa or wherever they get audio.

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to Episode 536 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show, I'll be speaking with Rachel, Rachel is a therapist. She's also the mother of a few children, one of whom has type one diabetes, and is a twin. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

There's no better day than today to start with the diabetes pro tip episodes. They begin at Episode 210 and are also available at Juicebox. Podcast calm and diabetes pro tip calm. Are you newly diagnosed or don't understand some of the terms that you're hearing on the podcast? Check out the defining diabetes series, also available at Juicebox Podcast Comm. And in your podcast player, I also have episodes about algorithm based pumping. And after dark topics, check them out, go go visit the website Juicebox podcast.com.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, check them out at touched by type one.org. When you get there, you're going to find a wonderful organization whose mission is to elevate awareness of type one diabetes, raise funds to find a cure and inspire those with diabetes to thrive, touched by type one.org. The episode is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can learn more at Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox. Let's how you that this is my first time using a different computer setup. So I okay, I have a high level of concern at the moment. Okay, I was about to ask you. If I was about to say something like you know, when you've done something a million times, but you're still not sure if it's gonna be okay. And like why would I say to somebody who has diabetes or even understand? No, I've never felt that way. Yeah, I just like a silly question to ask. Have you ever thought help? But anyway, it seems like it's working, which is really cool. I'm going to take a split second to check your voice on the recording. So I also have like a mic, like an actual mic that I could set up don't mean to do that. You sound really good.

Okay, if I sound good, then I will not mess with technology on my end either. Like, we'll just make it worse, or it'll or it'll sound better. And but it'll take 20 minutes, and it won't

Rachel 3:01
exactly know I don't trust that if I hook up this mic that like I won't have to like download drivers and whatever. So

Scott Benner 3:08
yeah, let me guess give me a half. I'll be here. But you sound great. This is recording. I win. Every great. I did it. I am. So you're the first person to benefit from this. Let me tell you about this kind of interesting. So I share about the T one D exchange on the podcast, which is a an organization that I think does really cool stuff. And they have a difficult time as everyone does getting someone to follow through on, you know, filling out a survey. So it's all it is is a survey. So every time I've done it, I'm almost positive that I have done it. Well, thank you. Because every time someone uses my link for the survey, I make some money. Oh, nice, lovely. It's a T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box. I just realized I'm leaving this part in the episode. But anyway, I was able to use the money I made recently to buy a dedicated computer to record the show on. So that was really cool. Because it I've been doing the whole thing on one computer and it the hard drive fills up and then the computer slows down and it gets difficult. So this is a big deal. And I appreciate everybody who filled out the survey at the end exchange. And this is

Rachel 4:26
so honored that I get to be the first person on this computer.

Scott Benner 4:29
You are the first one exactly right. Why don't you introduce yourself and then we'll start talking.

Rachel 4:35
Yeah, I'm Rachel Gibson, and I'm a clinical social worker that works in private practice and a mom of a kid with T one D and we are about a year and a half into our diabetes journey. I hate that I said journey. I really don't like that but it came out I also have two other kids. So my my type one diabetic kid is a twin. So I've got a non diabetic twin and then an older kid who older one is 10. And the twins are eight. Yeah. Wow,

Scott Benner 5:16
very nice. Did you just not want to say journey? Because it sounds it's so kind of like,

Rachel 5:20
Yeah, I don't like when therapists say journey. It's like when we call messed up situations, opportunities, these are just things that I try to avoid as a therapist.

Scott Benner 5:33
So yes, the car fell on your house, then your house fell on you. But this is just an opportunity for you to dig deep like Shut up.

Rachel 5:40
Amazing growth opportunity you've just been presented with on your journey.

Scott Benner 5:45
You think people say that? Because what else are you gonna say? Other than Wow, totally bad luck that your car and your house fell on you? That really sucks. That's what I say, as a therapist. I'm like, that sucks. Yeah, I got I have no upside. There's a number of times while recording the show that I just say that because it seems like the most honest response.

Rachel 6:04
It's the most validating to me, why would you I don't, I am a big proponent of not trying to move too quickly to any sort of meaning or bright side or positivity. Like that will happen naturally from the person. But if it's externally applied, like if I as an outside person come in and say, but at least you know, you're at least you, you know, didn't get a, you know, you didn't break any bones, you just got a life altering brain injury, that's incredibly invalidating and frustrating. And now you're not allowed to have any negative feelings. You know, I

Scott Benner 6:42
yeah, I have to tell you that I completely agree. And I've, if you've listened through this whole podcast, which by the way, it's, you're probably recording what'll end up being like Episode 570, or something like that. But I mean, I'm up to 500 ish now out. And I genuinely believe that you can't say to somebody, well, at least it wasn't this because it kind of, although it's a very real response, like I've had the thought myself hearing response. Yeah, but it doesn't, but it it can do under the surface, what you just said, which is kind of minimize what diabetes is. Right? And diabetes is hard. And everyone's experience with anything by this is gonna sound New Agey, but everyone's experience with everything is theirs, and you can't judge it or read it or put it into a category like it is what it is, if the worst thing that's ever happened to you is diabetes. Well, that's the worst thing that's ever happened to you.

Rachel 7:44
Yeah. And it can still suck. I mean, the thing is that there will always be people who are suffering more and suffering less. And there's no fairness. I mean, that's my, I think people could have an argument with me, but my feeling is, you know, it's it, there's not fairness or justice about the individual struggles that we each have, it just happens. And when you're the one struggling, it always sucks. And I don't find it very helpful. Nor do I recommend it to other people to compare yourself to people who might be suffering more, because you can have empathy for them and recognize the depth of their suffering. But that doesn't make your suffering, feel any better, at least to me, it's like, no, everyone has their own suffering, I think it's, I find it more helpful to sort of join in the human experience of suffering and recognize that we're all doing the best we can. And sometimes it's helpful to just be with others who are feeling like life is hard, as well.

Scott Benner 8:46
Yeah. Do you think that it's fairly common and maybe even normal for people to do that, though, to seek out someone who's in their eyes not doing as well as they are so that it makes them feel like they're succeeding?

Rachel 9:00
I mean, I sure I think it's, you know, comparing yourself to other people is very, very human. And, like, it's also very human to, you know, recognize that it feels good when you're coming out on top of that comparison. Yeah. And it's okay for that. I mean, I, my, you know, therapeutic philosophy is, it's, it's good to notice all of the thoughts and feelings that you're having, including ones that you don't necessarily like, you know, and then you know, feeling open to all thoughts and feelings that come with it. So my, you know, if I were in therapist mode, my next question would be, well, what is going on for you that you need to help yourself feel better? Like what why why do you need that comparison for you to feel better? What is that giving you and what are you not getting that makes you need that extra validation, you know, like, there's always more to it. But I think it's good to be curious about

Scott Benner 10:01
why aren't you enough? Yeah, exactly. Interesting. All right, Rachel, listen, I did my best thinking on my end. I can't figure out how, why we booked you on the show. So can you?

Rachel 10:14
Yeah, it was, um, to lean into, like this mental health side, and a little bit of siblings experience with type one, in that I've got this interesting situation with a twin. So we've got these like, little justice, they want everything equal, and then one gets diabetes. And that equality gets blown out, blown out of the water. So that was one of the things that we had talked about in terms of leaning into the mental health aspect of type one along with sibling dynamics. All right, well, that sounds are you happy? you booked me? Oh, no,

Scott Benner 10:54
I am. Trust me in the moment, I was like, this is the right thing to do. I just really am by myself over here. So I totally get it. It would be nice. If I could send an email to someone and be like, Hi, Rachel is coming on this morning. Just remind me what we're doing again. And then I looked at my notes, and I actually changed one of the intake questions so that I could see it more easily. But you signed up before that could happen. So I'm not embarrassed. I really am not like if I recorded one of these a month, and I couldn't remember then I'd be like, Oh my god, I'm an idiot. But you're the third one I've done this week so far. So that's Yeah, that's wild. And I'm more than happy to tell you why I'm here. So how long ago was was the diagnosis?

Rachel 11:41
The diagnosis was in January of 2020. So it's been about a year and a half. Okay. All right.

Scott Benner 11:46
That's pretty soon and you're saying that? So digging into the the idea of twins, are they I don't imagine this doesn't matter whether they are fraternal, or are they identical, um, boy girl. So fraternal definitely not identical, then I see. If you would have said, it's a boy and a girl, I could have made that decision on my own, but not a lot of but I get asked that a lot, though, you'd be surprised that I'm very proud to say I could have figured that out. Well done. So there's this kind of feeling like this happens with siblings to begin with, I have, right now a 21 year old and an almost 17 year old. And they both I think always have an underlying feeling that the other ones being treated better or more fairly or differently. And it's impossible for them to see that they're, they're individuals, and that they all don't have the exact same situations, they don't need the same responses. They have different, you know, ways of thinking, and so we pair them differently, you know, but when they're twins, does that ramp it up?

Rachel 12:52
It ramps it up. So we, you know, we have the twins and we have an older so we kind of have this kind of comparison, all kids are like the equality police. So that's it's a pretty universal parenting experience. But for me, and you know, when I've talked to other multiple moms, it does get it's more intense between them, and they really monitor the equality of each other more than they monitor it with the older kid. I think partly because they, you know, being the same age, they should have the exact same privileges the exact same, you know, time special time spent with parents, and they they keep track of everything.

Scott Benner 13:33
Yeah, it's, uh, do you see it? I mean, this is not for you, for your kids, or you even professionally. But isn't it weird when you see it with adults? when they're in their 30s? And their 40s? They're like, Mom likes him better. And you're like, Oh, my God, like, let it go. Let it go. It's time to move on. What is this about exactly? Like, why are you think you're raising your own children? Now you're still worried that your sister gets a bigger piece of Turkey on Thanksgiving, like Calm down, get that I know.

Rachel 14:03
But what I'll say with empathy is, you know, a lot of people snap back into their childhood stuff when they're with their family of origin. Like it's pretty funny to see like, when you, you know, when you're watching a family of adult children, and all of a sudden you're seeing the sibling dynamics play out as if they were younger. It's it's pretty funny. Humans are funny.

Scott Benner 14:23
Yeah, no kidding. Do you think? Do you think it's important? Alright, so there's an interesting question. If I if, if it was an absolute, and you could only do one or the other. Would you say that adults going back to visit with family in a big setting like that should definitely happen or never happened? If you had to pick one? Are you asking me if adults should go like spend time with their family? Like, you know, like, you know, Lion just walks away from its cubs at one point. It's like, that's it. You know, I think I would definitely say let's continue the relationships and yeah, right. So there's nothing like harmful that comes from it. It's just really funny to watch everybody turn back into like eight, five and nine.

Rachel 15:02
It's it's a mute fruit fruit for relatively healthy family. It's pretty amusing. Kind of, isn't it? Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:10
I can actually still hear my what my wife talking about, like they wouldn't watch the TV show I watched or like something or you know, my parents didn't like my gymnastics, but they like my sister soccer.

Rachel 15:23
Yeah, I'm not going to give specifics because they might listen to it. But yeah, this I can see it happen with my husband's, you can ever see it with your own family, you know, because, like you're in it, so you don't know what you're doing. But I see it when my when we go back to my husband's family and all the kids are there. It's just really funny. But you can. Again, I'm not going to give specifics, but yeah,

Scott Benner 15:46
your husband's family's a mess. I hear what you're saying now. So. No, no, I what I was gonna say for real is that one of the kind of joys of being married once you can get over feeling like someone's picking on your family, is you finally get an outside perspective from someone you trust? It is so true. Yeah. Yeah. Because but in the beginning, when I was younger, I'd be like, Why is she like, like, like, Why does she see them like that? You know what I mean? Like I've written the past in my head, I guess for the things that you're used to what you're used to, you know, super interesting. Okay. Alright, so these kids. Alright, I guess we should find out real quick. Like, how was the How was your child diagnosed? What was it like DK or you just saw?

Rachel 16:26
No, it was actually it was we were I feel really fortunate. We never hit DK. It was wetting the bed for like a week. We just saw weird stuff. She was wetting the bed. She was drinking like a fish just just sort of strange. And I had googled. So I knew that this could be diabetes, but I also just assumed that I was being kind of paranoid and jumping to the worst case scenario. But that being said, after one night where she had wet the bed twice, and you know, she hadn't been wetting the bed for years. I went to the doctor with her and I was like, You know what, I? I'm sure that I'm being ridiculous, but can we just check this out? And they were like, I also am sure that you're being ridiculous, but let's do this. And we got sent straight to the ER, and her blood sugar's were at, I think, eight like over 800 to 900. Somewhere in there. Wow. That's pretty, pretty high. But she was happy as could be. And I mean, luckily, we, you know, we didn't have any major medical complications. We just stayed in the hospital getting her blood sugar's down, and you know, getting the crash course and what to do. Well,

Scott Benner 17:39
hey, you want to hear something interesting. That's completely off topic. Yes. Fish don't actually drink water down through their mouth. But obviously, they need water. Like all living things need to live. They generally absorb it through their skin. It's called osmosis. Same way. hormones and nutrients are absorbed into our blood.

Rachel 17:58
So as I said, that phrase, I was like, What a dumb phrase. But I decided not to interrupt myself.

Scott Benner 18:04
No, no, I said,

Rachel 18:05
I had the same thought. Actually, as it came out of my mouth. I was like, that's what a weird phrase. Anyway, because I was like,

Scott Benner 18:13
I think she made that up. I'm not certain. I

Rachel 18:17
think it's a phrase, but I could be wrong. It could be that I like made it up. Or like kind of like Ricky Ricardo did some sort of, like common phrase and put it together with another one. I don't know. I'm sure your viewers can tell us.

Scott Benner 18:29
I've heard a fish to water. Not a different phrase. Yeah. But it has nothing to do with actually being thirsty.

Rachel 18:36
Yeah, no, that's that's like when you just pick something up really easily.

Scott Benner 18:39
Yeah. Yeah. We should go through all the things have the word fish in it.

Rachel 18:45
I could keep going. I've got like the feminists, like, you know, men, like fish needs a bicycle. So I mean, we could keep going with this, but we should probably refocus.

Scott Benner 18:54
We should. I don't know like a fish needs advice. I get that. Okay. All right. That's good. Don't Yeah, it's probably true. Like it you. Listen, you're not divorced, right. poor husband. He says, What is he just like a like a? Pause, right? Just a classic feminist quote that I did have on my wall during college. I'm sure that just drew all the boys in. I went to a women's college. I was not about drawing and the boy. It's great. It's wonderful. Okay, so you get the diagnosis. It's only a year and a half ago. Yeah. Do you leave with any kind of technology?

Rachel 19:34
No. And I had to just ignore everybody to get the technology because they, the doctors were saying, we probably wouldn't get a Dexcom until, I mean, like six months and probably not a pump for a year. And I asked why. And they were like, Well, you know, insurance. They like to make sure that everything's stable first. And I just basically I just thought That was so stupid. And so I just independently got everyone's approval. And then, like made it happen. Yeah, I just ignored that. So we had a ducks calm about two months in, I want to say and then a pump about like four or five months in.

Scott Benner 20:17
I believe that all that is bull that Yeah, the times and you know it has to be this long you have to have this number. I think if you have insurance, you can push it through if your insurance covers it,

Rachel 20:30
you just have what I did. I just said like, I basically just call the insurance and said, Hey, the doctor wants a duck's comment, a pump, how do we do it? Exactly. And then I call the doctor and I said the insurance is willing to cover it. How do we do it? And I

Scott Benner 20:45
said, look like an old timey movie. You're like, I'll just do a little Mr. Action over here.

Rachel 20:50
I'll just say everyone approves and make them talk and then it worked. So I feel great about it. I

Scott Benner 20:55
feel like you took a towel, hold it over the phone. You're like, Hello, this is Rachel. For her daughter. Rachel can't come to school today. She's sick.

Rachel 21:07
Yes, it was classic Mr. action, and I recommend everybody do it. Because because it was stupid. Like why? Why would we not going to ducks calm? Especially? I mean, that's just it. You know, it's just it's wonderful technology, they and we should leave the hospital with it.

Scott Benner 21:22
I once called Arden's aren't my insurance company, like six days in a row. And finally, on the sixth day, you could hear in the person's voice, they were like, I am going to spend all day today making sure this happens so that you do not fall back tomorrow. I mean, that's how you get it done. Yeah, I actually used the phrase. Listen, I'm a stay at home Dad, I have very little else to do. I love it. I love the threat of just being a nuisance. I want to stay focused on this just perfect. Excellent. So you don't get home with anything particular. Was it a surprise? Is there any other type one in the family or other autoimmune?

Rachel 22:00
It was definitely a surprise. We, my maternal grandfather was diagnosed with type one very late in life. So like in his 50s or 60s, he was diagnosed. So you know, I had that exposure, but it really never, that's the only person with type one that we can identify. And we can't really identify much of an auto mute. So it was definitely a surprise that was not, you know, all the things that you worry about as a parent type one was not really on my radar.

Scott Benner 22:31
How about that? That's cool. interesting to hear. Because everyone has I think it's all kind of, you know, everybody thinks there's a rule once they see something, you know, they don't think of it as maybe just random. But, you know, obviously, there's type one in your family if your maternal grandfather had it. That's that. Like, you know, I interviewed somebody recently who was diagnosed at like, seven and so was their father. And you could see how at while I was talking to her, I was like, tell me the truth when your kid was like seven years old, were you just staring thinking like, this? Is it get on me? It's gonna happen right now. We're like, your father dies of a heart attack at an age and people have that very bad age in your mind. Yeah. Like, this is what I'm gonna live to get to. That's our sort of, I mean, meaningless, right?

Rachel 23:19
Well, I mean, I think it's just we carry it with us. But in terms of I mean, I think the mistake that we make that we can often make is that it making it fact don't even mean like it because what those are, those are feelings. Those are fears. Those are, like milestones, but they're not. I don't it doesn't actually make anything happen. You know what I mean? Like it's, but it can feel predictive almost.

Scott Benner 23:45
So tell me what you do for a living therapist. Practice or

Rachel 23:51
private practice, and I kind of I work with at my specialties are millennials and families and then specifically, I work with a lot of gender expansive kids, so kids that are exploring gender or transgender.

Scott Benner 24:07
I have to ask, why is millennials a category?

Rachel 24:10
I just love them. I'm an old millennial. So I was born in 82. So I'm like the oldest millennial that you can be. And Millennials are so much fun in therapy because they tend to see it more as an ongoing practice, like going to the gym and getting regular checkups, which just leads to adapt. And, like an exploration that is just sort of fun. As a therapist, I just really enjoy that population.

Scott Benner 24:41
It's not like that timeline has like a real like leather fetish or something like that. They didn't have something specific. It was no gotcha. They see the process. I can understand that that would be I would think more fulfilling for you.

Rachel 24:56
Yeah, it's it's really just sort of like they're fun. They're they tend to Be very, like long term committed to mental health. And that's it's fun to work with people who really care about self improvement and learning about themselves as a practice of general health. It's just fun.

Scott Benner 25:14
So you're saying to other therapists, if you've got bills, you want to get those, you know, Millennials do not make enough money to be funny. They are not the cash cow here. I know. Very, very dialed into the process, but chase him around for $5 constantly. Yeah,

Rachel 25:35
no, it's that's that's one of the things they're stressed about. So yeah, no, they're definitely not the money makers, but they are very committed,

Unknown Speaker 25:43
committed and broke. Well, in a nutshell.

Scott Benner 25:49
That's interesting. So they came up at a time where they got over educated, and there's not work to Yeah, I say,

Rachel 25:56
and also kind of promised this like prosperity but isn't really available. Um, yeah, it's it's kind of stuff.

Scott Benner 26:05
Yeah, I can see that to where that feeling of just go to college and things will be okay. Exactly. I'm gonna do a vibe, when the truth is always going to be that the early bird gets the worm. Like, what? You got to go out there and fight a little harder, try a little more do do extra. And if you're not willing to do that, the ascensions probably not there unless you dumb luck into something. But yeah,

Rachel 26:32
but I'll also say that the I would say that even with hard like, that is true, you do need those things. And you can do those things and still not get, you know, get anywhere. And so that's what's tough is that just trying to figure out, it tends to be that like, other general older generation, say, you know, hey, hit the pavement. Get out, get out there. And that's not been the experience for a lot of millennials is like, No, but I did that. And I'm still struggling. I'm still in like, an entry level job. Yeah. So anyway, that's it's it's, it's definitely a complicated, like transitional generation.

Scott Benner 27:08
Right. I wonder if the older people who say just work hard, and it works out. They had such lower expectations. Right, like, they just wanted a house. Yeah, they weren't looking to be fulfilled, they didn't have any expectation of what like,

Rachel 27:24
I think that's, that is definitely there's a big aspect of that, but even like having a house now I'm in LA. So having a house having a house here, it's kind of, it's a lot. But, um, but yeah, but like, even sort of more humble dreams. Like, you know, owning a home that you can afford with a full time job is not always in reach for some of the younger generations. I mean, things have changed a lot. And just the amount of debt that you acquire going to college is really different from previous generations. So it's easy.

Scott Benner 27:57
No, it's Yeah, it really is. Okay, so how does your profession lend itself to parenting? Or does it not help? As much as you might think,

Rachel 28:09
oh, it helps far less than I wish were true. And my husband will often I mean, I literally teach parenting classes, and my husband will look at me sometimes and say, like, aren't you an expert in this? Like, I don't know what to do? Um, um, yeah, it never translates well, to your own life. But I think what it does do is I have the ability to kind of like, recognize two different answers, like might the answer that I'm doing, that's probably good enough, but not great. And then the more ideal answer that I can strive for, and that can definitely help when I feel really stuck with parenting

Scott Benner 28:49
is that then the disconnect is between knowing what to do and not being so emotional that you can't get to it?

Rachel 28:57
I mean, that's the disconnect for everybody, right? Like most of us know what we're supposed to do, like, Hey, stop yelling at your kids, right? But it's surprisingly hard to stop yelling at your kids, when they're driving you crazy.

Scott Benner 29:10
Yeah. Why do I have to give Rachel my $40 copay when I know I shouldn't be doing this. But the answer is that I can't You can't stop yourself for some reason. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Do most people want to be better? Or not? These are bad words, but I don't have a good word for it. Like do most people want to be good people or there's some people you just meet that are like, where does that become a mental illness like that? So

Rachel 29:37
I think I think there's a that's a complicated question. I actually think that moment, at least, you know, my clients and the people in my life, I think that they are good people and want to be better people and want to keep that in mind. Um, so I do think that there's like an inherent goodness with certain exceptions to most people and Think that often the work that people do on themselves they've put off for a long time, because they think it's not that important or that it's more important to focus on others. But it's, it turns into that kind of like, put the oxygen mask on yourself first. And I mean, I think that's definitely true. And when you get a serious diagnosis like diabetes in your family, it's like, you do have to take care of yourself deal with your own stuff. Because you've got a marathon in front of you, and you, you have to be available and present in order to, you know, run the marathon.

Scott Benner 30:39
What about our wiring? Like, do you think about that, when you're talking to people like I, from my perspective, I've been alive a while I pay attention to things that are going around, you know, with myself and my family and people that I mean, and I think that when you're young, that desire to protect everybody provide for everybody is so overwhelming, and to make babies like, I know, we think of it differently, like, it's our sexuality, or I want to be like, you know, but really, like, you're just like, I have got to eat and have sex. Like, that's kind of you don't think it but you don't I mean, like, it's your drive and, and for, you know, very maternal women, it could very easily just be like, I need to have a baby. Now I have a baby, I need to take care of this baby, like nothing can I joke about like, my son was born. And I just became my wife and my son's assistant. Like, she was like, She's like, Oh, it's here. Go stand in the corner until we need something. You know, like, it wasn't like that. But it could feel like that to me. And then I'm just like, no, desire me, so that we can make more babies like it right. A real like crazy. It's people should not have children. But yet, it's fascinating to watch it happen, right? But yeah, but now we're trying to as time moves forward, and people get more thoughtful, and are paying more attention. And I think we get to pay more attention because life is getting, you know, grand scheme of things easier, right? Like, I don't have to go chip a boulder a way to get to a cave anymore. I got more free time. So I can think about things. And then you're fighting against your instincts. And it's, uh, I don't know, it's I find the whole thing fascinating even with like the kids, like, like, look at me, don't look at that one. That one got more than me. Don't do this. Like, that's got to be something primal. Like, look, some of us are going to die. I don't want it to be me pay attention to me.

Rachel 32:31
Hmm, no, I do think that there's a lot that's primal. And a lot of how a lot of it is how we're wired. And, and I think it's when I don't, I don't think it's necessarily good to work against that. I think you notice it, you sometimes you recognize the ways that it's still helping you like when, you know, when my daughter was diagnosed. I didn't need sleep or food. Like I mean, I needed you know, enough of those things to keep going. But I might it's like, I don't remember having needs during that period. And that's fine. Like, that's survival, that's your instincts kick in, and you're trying to protect like your cub. And I think there are some ways that it's really, really helpful. And then ways that it the wiring goes wrong when you are, you know, like anxiety is sort of that wiring going wrong, because now you're worrying about things that are not life and death, but your brain is interpreting is life and death because our life is so much easier, logistically now. So yeah, I think that the wiring is really it is really fascinating and, and understanding it can be really helpful. So that you, you know, you know, when to go with it, and when it's really helping you and when you might need to, you know, introduce another storyline rather than just the the the hardwiring that we come with.

Scott Benner 33:50
Yeah, I cannot have 50 kids with 14 different women. Like I know, I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah, but there's somebody out there walking around right now is like, yeah, I'm gonna move on, make some more babies, you know, that kind of feeling. It's just, I don't want this to be morbid. And I certainly think we're 100 years past that. So it's not, but 100 years or so ago, my daughter isn't alive anymore. Yeah, you know, either as yours and you would have had this short painful experience with a bad illness and they would just be gone. Yeah. And and it would have been so for many, many met, my wife had a bad bad ear infection. It's when she was a child. I genuinely don't think she would have lived. Yeah, you know, that that kind of stuff. I my relationship with life and death. Yeah, it's crazy. My appendix when? I don't know, gosh, it's got to be like 1819 years ago now. I mean, prior to medical intervention, that would have got me Wow, I should have been really crazy. You know, like that kind of to really wrap your head around that sort of thing. Okay, so I sorry, I found you interesting. And now we're a half an hour into this. Can you imagine if you weren't interesting, nobody would be alone. Listening anymore, so it doesn't matter. They might not Anyway, we'll see Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I pride meaning I don't know how interesting I am doesn't matter if you're interesting. I can make you interesting, but you happen to be our thing. So this is easy. So your kid has the diabetes, the other kid right away? What are they? What are you seeing like with both of them the older child and the twin? Is there an immediate feeling of Oh, they're paying more attention to her than us.

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Rachel 38:20
Yes, I mean, I think that the immediate immediate was genuine concern or at least I'd like to think so. I'm

Scott Benner 38:29
bigger than mine. This is

Rachel 38:31
I think that there was like when when she got hospitalized, it was very shocking. I mean, we just literally got told to go straight to the ER. And so I think that there was an you know, initially there was concern and but once once everyone was sort of like, okay, you know, she's going to be okay, this is a big adjustment. But you know, then she started getting gifts in the hospital and you know, she stayed home from school for a week. And so then like the what they saw as benefits so when she got eventually she got a freaking iPhone. So, watch her numbers, you know, I mean, then the like upsides started to show and I know that for my older one. And I will say that according to research, this was very typical that my older one tended to internalize. And my younger one the twin tended to externalize which is borne out in research so the the older one got very quiet and very good. Like didn't rough didn't make waves didn't complain to ruffle feathers just sort of got quiet. But he would sometimes come in with some really heartbreaking sentences like there was you know, she was diagnosed in January his birthday is in March and he said it sometime in like February. Do you think that because we would keep saying you know, this is that we're not I know this is taking a lot of attention but you know, we're not really good at this yet. We're going to get better and then it will not take up so much have our attention. Well, this isn't the new normal yet. And he asked, Do you think that this will be you'll be better at this by my birthday, because what I want from my birthday is for you to essentially pay attention to me, which was a real gun.

Unknown Speaker 40:17
It was just, it was terrible kids. Break Your Heart. No, oh,

Rachel 40:23
I No, no, it was it was like a just a full gut punch. And then the younger one really just like kept tabs, he really, he complained a lot. He monitored what presence she was getting and sort of demanded equality, which mean we didn't give them you get diabetes, you'll get presents to

Scott Benner 40:45
have an era poster, he was wandering around with these, like,

Rachel 40:49
it felt like it. Um, so he and so he really sort of externalized he was very, like verbal and, um, you know, kind of like, was the squeaky wheel. Which, you know, I mean, both both are valid, both are fair, because it was it was a big change. But that's sort of how each of them responded in the immediate aftermath

Scott Benner 41:12
have either asked if they're going to get diabetes,

Rachel 41:15
yes. Um, and I think at various times have expressed more concern, more or less concern. Um, you know, and when we're honest about, you know, you have, like, more of a chance, but still not a huge chance. And the good news is, we would know what to do a lot better. Cuz we, we've gotten, you know, we've gotten the hang of it with with Hana. So there's, there's definitely some anxiety there.

Scott Benner 41:43
I have to say, it's interesting, because that's the right response, we would know what to do better if it happened to you. That's exactly what I would say. But if I go back a half an hour in our conversation, isn't that like saying to them, don't worry if a house falls on you? It's not as bad?

Rachel 41:57
I think it depends on how you say it. I mean, it would definitely, I mean, I'll say I wouldn't only say that. Um, and you know, we do not in this house, we complain about diabetes, we do not Brightside, diabetes. So I think that, within that context, I think they feel okay about talking about, you know, that we would be able to do better, but we're not telling them to be okay with it. Like we're not saying, you know, just because we can handle it better doesn't mean that you have to feel good about it, or like it. And we what's nice is we sort of externalize diabetes in this house so that we can all be mad at diabetes, we can all dislike diabetes, and that way we're not disliking Hannah, we're not disliking the, you know, the, like the the extra care or attention that she needs. That's just how that's just how our lives are. And that's okay. Yeah, but we can all be mad at diabetes for different reasons, and at different times. And, and that's okay, too.

Scott Benner 43:05
Yeah. Isn't it interesting that you have to walk this kind of tightrope? Because she's not diabetes? Right? Yeah. And we need to keep those things separate. And at the same time, I've spoken to a lot of adults who feel like you have to embrace it.

Rachel 43:22
Yeah, it is such a balance. And I agree with the embracing. So here's like, so one of the main things I talk about as a therapist is acceptance. And basically just dropping a struggle against your feelings against your circumstances against, you know, all of the things in your life, you don't have, it doesn't mean that you like it. And it doesn't mean that you're resigned to not changing anything, it just means that you're honest about, you know, what's going on for you. And so I do try to layer in that, like, Look, we're not going to fight diabetes. And in fact, I have a little bit of a pet peeve with, like, you know, like her fight is my fight. I agree with the sentiment, like, certainly, you know, diabetes is mine, and hers. But I don't want to fight with diabetes, because it's here, it will always be here. And it is it is, it is a difficult balance to like externalize it to the point that we can all be on the same team and talk about diabetes as something separate, but also accept that diabetes is part of our lives, it is not going away, and that we all have diabetes in our family.

Scott Benner 44:39
I think that all these things lead me to be happy about the podcast because it was always my thought that whether you think her fight is my fight is a rallying cry or you hear it as like, Oh, you shouldn't be fighting like that's, that's all just the way people think about things like I don't right, but the one that I've always maintained was, if it was easier to take care of your blood sugar, all of this crap would be easier. And so true, right? Let's get to a point where we understand how to use the insulin so that when we have real human feelings, or we're the kinds of people who push down human feelings, or we're whatever we are, at least it's not going to be as difficult and our health isn't one of the issues.

Rachel 45:23
100% Yeah, and I will say that, like listening to your podcast was definitely a turning point for us. I started I was recommended to me about three months in and I started listening to it and immediately turned it off. Because I was just like, wow, that's too much. I'm not ready. And then I came back to it about eight months in and sort of went through kind of the main, like recommended ones for being bold with insulin. And it it really was a game changer in terms of tackling our own fear. And using insulin appropriately and more aggressively. assertively, I should say, you can't. It was a it was a it was a really, it was really helpful.

Scott Benner 46:05
I'm glad I am very glad you can't force people into being in the place, which is why just why the podcast is, is valuable, because it's a living document, kind of a feeling. So it's not like you send them to a blog post or one thought, and then they hit it and like you didn't go, Oh, I'm not ready for this. And then you walk away from it. It's a I don't even know, like, I think of the podcast is, you know, sort of like a warm rolling wave that just sort of keeps ma forward through my experience with Arden and Arden's experience with diabetes. Yeah, you know, sort of just kind of it keeps going, it's always going to keep going, I could see that 20 years from now I could be doing an episode about Arden's having a baby or a wedding or, you know, I'm giving myself a lot of credit for me able to stay alive for 20 more years, but but you know, that kind of, I don't see how this narrative stops. And I can see how left behind is a time capsule that one day could end up being just as valuable to someone in 10 years as it is to someone today. I can see that too. I think that's great. So I just, that's, to me, this is a perfect medium for that. And I'm not all that photogenic, so it really is kind of perfect. Even better. It's funny, I look in the mirror, and I'm like, I'm pretty handsome. And then someone takes a picture of me. And I'm like, that's not the guy in the mirror. Like what's going on?

Rachel 47:30
So yeah, welcome to ageing man. That's just I think that's just the way it is from here on out.

Scott Benner 47:36
If I stayed far enough away from the camera to be comfortable with it, you'd be like, I think someone back there was talking about. But But anyway, I just think that it's, it's interesting to see the kids all have different experiences with it. And at the same time, I don't know that it's very much different than any other experiences they had. It's just sped up. Right? Does that make sense to you that life's happening kind of slowly, you don't notice it. And these problems or difficulties arise, and you get more time to deal with them. But this thing just comes in a wash. It's there right away? Yeah.

Rachel 48:18
And you can't, you can't like slowly figure it out. You've just got to get on board.

Scott Benner 48:24
Now you're standing there trying to figure out how to parent it. You're thinking about how to manage it, like from a technical aspect. You're thinking about the impact on three different children. I'm assuming at some point in the quiet moment, you're worried about your husband, you know, they mean like he's worried about you, you're worried about yourself, or he's worried about himself. Nobody thought this was what was gonna happen. You know, it takes away the picture you painted in your head, like, what we'll do is we'll make some babies. Rachel's a therapist, it's great. I have my job. We'll buy a house one day, it'll be good. Like, you know, now all of a sudden, everything feels like whoa, none of that matters right now. Yeah. How do I stop this toast from making my kids blood sugar? 300 all day? Yeah, yep. Yeah. And then your other kids, like, I want to play soccer. And you're like, I'm trying not to kill your sister. Leave me alone. That's so true. I don't care if you like soccer all the sudden. And then you feel terrible for feeling that like, and, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And everyone has their own experience in their own feeling. Now, here's the question. When when a child comes to you, your trained person, right, and they ask a question, does your brain go through like the Dewey Decimal System of proper responses and just pull out a card and start reading? Or are you not able to do that? And if you aren't able to do that, how the hell am I supposed to be able to do that?

Rachel 49:43
Well, I think there's, in my best moments, yes, my brain does that. And then I mean, but there's also a difference between pulling out the card and application of the skills on that card which usually goes sideways. Because kids are very unpredictable, and they have not read the research about what's supposed to be effective.

Scott Benner 50:06
And look at you, by the way makes you feel bad about yourself. And then you're like, Oh, this kid knows, I don't know what I'm doing.

Rachel 50:13
Yeah. But the good news is that there is a lot there. All the research suggests that you do not have to be perfect or even near perfect to be a great parent. So also keep that in my mind, too, is that you just really have to be good enough. It's literally a scientific phrase good enough parenting. Yeah. And so when a kid comes to me, I do. If I'm at my best, I will cycle through some of the things that might be effective. And, and try to pick a strategy. But the more important thing is not what strategy you pick, but that you're sending the message that when they come and share something with you, you take it seriously, and you refocus your attention on them as soon as you can. If it's not in that moment. You tell them when you can, and then follow through on making sure that you're connecting with them, then that's actually the more important thing than any one strategy.

Scott Benner 51:04
How important is your intent? Like that? You mean? Well,

Rachel 51:10
intent is very important. Yeah. Um, I think that the message is, I care. And even if you aren't quite sure how to help them with the specific feeling or situation that they're coming to you with, the more important, you can still send the message that you care and that you'll help you'll, you know, work with them to help figure it out. And that's, that's really the the most important message because that one applies to all things.

Scott Benner 51:39
Let me ask you a question. I feel like I notice that people give up on parenting too soon, in age for their children. Is that something you notice when people like they're all like, you know, their babies? And they're like, yeah, this is I can do this. And they're all intent. And you know, the kids sex and some kid touched them on the playground, and you're at the school ready to beat up a six year old, like, you've got all that like energy for children. And then suddenly, they hit an age where they seem like, they don't need you anymore. And they act like they don't what it's like 12 1314 where they disappear to their room for a while, or they act like they don't want to be a part of the of the family as much like that, like pulling away starts. And people get their feelings hurt, I think, or just think that the kids like, Oh, look, look how self sufficient and then they start like, I always did want a pink. You don't I mean, then suddenly, you're not parenting as harsh. And that's, to me the exact wrong time to stop paying attention. Cuz now they have genitals that they're aware of. And, and, and someone's like, have you tried vaping? And they're like, vaping? Is that like sex? Can we do them both at the same time? Like you don't need me and like suddenly, your

Rachel 52:45
your brain has, you've just demonstrated an anxiety spiral with absolute accuracy.

Scott Benner 52:51
Thank you, I and I don't feel that way. By the way. Like, I feel like, I feel like I am gonna be connected and parenting until it's appropriate not to be. And I do not allow my children to dissuade me from being a good parent, much like when you hear me talk about when I was little. I had this like, I got sick one time and there was this giant pill like people are so much better making medicine now you don't even realize was this big, dry thing stuck in your throat. And I tried to be like, Oh, I don't want to take it. And before I knew it, my dad's giant fingers. Were just shoving it down my throat and I was like, okay, like, it's like 1975 He's like, I don't care what you think. Here we go. I sat in here in the kitchen all day staring at you crying about this pill like that kind of feeling. When now I hear people say like, Oh, you know, we moisten the adhesive for 47 hours before we pull off the CGM, because Billy doesn't like it. If it stings, my dad would have just grabbed it with a fist and pulled it off with part of my arm. You know, I mean, and not to say he was right. But we're in a weird time right now with parenting. And yeah, you don't I mean, just in general. Can you talk more about that for me?

Rachel 54:02
Yeah, I mean, I think I think what you said about parents, parents getting their feelings hurt. I actually think that's a really important note. You know, we saw kids pulling away about that age or like wanting more independence, wanting more privacy, that's developmentally appropriate. And it has nothing to do with the parents. But it can feel really personal when it's your kid and that's okay. Like you're entitled to those feelings. It's okay to have hurt feelings. But to recognize that, that doesn't mean that it's about you. That's it's just a feeling that you have and it's valid and fair. But it it, you're you're you're kind of centering yourself in a situation that developmentally they're doing what they're supposed to do, but they absolutely still need parents and parenting. And the hope is that in like the interactions that you do have with them, that you are being very clear and powerful and sending the message that you are available and interested in them? Whenever they, you know, they feel comfortable with that, and insisting on certain times. So you can you are still the parent you can still set rules were like up, this is family time you can moan and groan if you want, but we're all hanging out. And, you know, I think that it's really important to to continue to parent with, you know, focus and intentionality through the entire I mean adolescence is, it's wild, like so they do need parents, and they do need parenting during that time. So I definitely agree with the assessment. But that's not when we should be. That's not when we get to take up painting. Yeah, that might be around the corner. But it's not. It's not here yet.

Scott Benner 55:46
Rachel, I love you. We could have been married and enjoying our life together as adults not having sex. And I think we would have been very happy. And let me tell you why. Because everything you just said, I completely agreed with. And I was about to say, I was like, Oh, I hope she goes deeper into this. Let me have this thought in the back of my head in case she stops. But you were Oh my God, you're so good at this. Congratulations. Yeah, your kids grow up to be serial killers and monsters, probably. But I'm gonna take no responsibility for that. Oh, listen, life life. I didn't have anything. But I still, like my son's in college. He's a reasonable kid. And and and there are still times where I'll say to him, Look, he might he might go, look, I'm not interested in your thoughts. And there are times where you have to evaluate and go, Okay, you know what, this isn't a hill to die on for me, right? It's not that important. But there have been times and there will be times in the future where I say to him, listen to me, I have put the last 21 years of my life in existence into you. And if you think in this moment, I'm not gonna say something you're out of your mind. Like, I didn't go all this way for you to drop dead now jackass. Like, you know, they mean, like, I'm gonna leave me here by myself with my thoughts. Like, that's not happening. You know, but But seriously, sometimes you have to go to them and just say, look, I hear how you feel. I think that's reasonable. And here's a perspective you don't have yet because you're 30 years younger than me, please take five seconds and listen to me. And sometimes you have to, sometimes you have to take the pill and stick it in their throat and be like, Listen, I'm not standing here all day with you. You need to swallow this. We're doing this thing right now. It's important.

Rachel 57:31
You know, and as as now, a grown up, which, using the word grown up to describe myself does not make me feel like a grown up that feels like a kid saying I'm a grown up. But I have reflected with my mom quite a bit about how all the advice that I didn't want growing up and into even young adulthood was 100%. Right? Yeah, totally correct. And of course it was, she's older, she knows what she's doing. But even when it was unwelcome, and even when I didn't take it necessarily at the time, I can remember it. So I think it's important to recognize that you are still an influence, you are still a voice. And you do have knowledge and experience that will benefit them. Even if they don't listen to it. It doesn't vanish, you're still you're still participating and connecting. And that's so important. And maybe when they're grown up like I am, they can come to you and say, Yeah, I guess you were right that whole time.

Scott Benner 58:29
I just don't want to. I am trying not to get cancer so that my kids can come back to me and tell me I'm right. And then I'm gonna drop dead happy. That's all I'm looking for. It really is like, I just want one little bit of validation at the end, and I don't care. As long as I can cognitively hear it. I know that I can look him in the face and go, I told you but no, but again, but seriously. Absolutely. That's impeccable advice. It really is it life is a long game. Parenting is a long game. Diabetes is a long game. If you think you're going to win today and get to sit back on the beach. You're you You're misunderstanding life, not just diabetes are parents

Rachel 59:12
now life? I mean, yeah, it's all of this is unknown, unpredictable. And, and a long game. And yeah, it's it's you, you don't always see the like the fruit of the seeds that you plant. And that's a lot of how I think of parenting is, you know, I might, you know, I might not ever get the Wow, I learned so much from you. And you were right, the whole time speech. I'd be sad if I didn't. But that doesn't mean that the seeds that I'm planting now and the connections that I'm making now aren't paying dividends in the future because we're teaching our kids how to be in the world. And they're there. They're watching us and they're learning and that is something that they will take with them. And, you know, hopefully, we do good enough parenting that that they're taking that they're taking A positive and a healthy worldview with them when they leave the nest.

Scott Benner 1:00:04
So I'm going to share something with you. I've never said on the podcast before I opened up my reminders on my computer. So Apple, I need you to stay in business for a long time. I have a reminder set for Christmas Eve. 2033. Wow, it says, Call Arden and see if she enjoys having Christmas pictures of herself. She owes me $100? If she does, this is a bet I made with her when she was nine. I've had that reminder in my computer for eight years already. But does she want Christmas pictures taken? I was trying to take pictures on Christmas Eve. And she's like, I don't want these. And I said, Well, you will when you're older. And she said No, I won't. And I was like, Oh, yeah. Your commitment to I told you so is amazing. It's it's, it's just that I listen, I don't begrudge a person who would rather sit on the beach their whole life, right? But I am, I have been a person who's been built to have children since I was little. And it's, you know, my dad leaves. When I'm 13. I take care of my little brothers, I see the impact my mom gets from being divorced and being. And this just becomes, you know, I've said it before. But you know, if I owe my dad anything, he really showed me what I don't want to be. And so it's incredibly important to me, I don't have anything more important than my health, my family's health and my children's future. Like that's what I want to do. I think if you want to know what I think life's about, I think life is about leaving somebody else better off than you are. I really don't i don't think there's some big payoff at the end. And so in a, in a slog like this, where if I'm lucky and don't get super sick, I could live at some years in that kind of a fight. At the very end. I just want to know that it was not even worth it. Because it's worth it to me no matter what I want to know that I had an impact on it. Yeah, I think I don't want to tell her I told you. So. I wanted to I wanted to say I have that picture. And I enjoy it. And then I think like okay, I spent my time well, you know, yeah, that's

Rachel 1:02:22
Yeah, I think of it like ripples, like I want the ripples of my life to positively impact the people around me and to ripple out and hopefully create new ripples. And I might never see the the ways that my life has impacted others. But I really hope that that I am somehow positively impacting people in even very small ways. And yeah, I agree with you that like that's how I think of life. And where I think the kind of the satisfaction comes from that satisfaction comes from your effort

Scott Benner 1:03:01
in the moment not in seeing the fruits of your labor, or it's just not going to work. That's why it for me. I don't know if you realize this, Rachel, but if I ever find a genie lamp on the beach washed up in the ocean, I already have my wishes all like set up because I don't want to mess up because I know in the moment I'm just going to ask for like the Heather Locklear off the poster when I was a kid and like a car like I know. Yeah, so you the first the first wish is, no matter what happens. My next wish was definitely come true. Your second wishes, unlimited wishes, you just go like that. And then. Right? Yeah. And then the first thing I'd want to do is, even if I couldn't live forever, which I don't know, I would want to or not, I'd want to come back like once every 100 years. I have key. I've said this so many times. Yeah, just to see, like live here a year, every 100 years just to see what happens.

Rachel 1:03:56
I just want to see what's up with people like, hey, what have we done? I want I have said this so many times that like I, you know, I don't necessarily want to like follow like, check in on my immediate family because like they're gonna be fine. Like, of course I care. And I'm curious. And that would be amazing, but they're going to be great. I'm really curious about like, the big picture stuff. Yeah. What are we doing as a species? I think that's gonna be really interesting.

Scott Benner 1:04:21
I want an electric car for the same reason I bought a computer when I was 13 years old. Just want to see what it is. Yeah, you don't I mean, I want to see how it's different from the thing I already understand. And, and for people. You know, it might be obvious. It's funny as I'm talking and maybe the people listening are like, Yeah, well, Scott, this is what the podcast is for people with diabetes, but like, it's not as obvious to me. But I just keep thinking, like, you know, change the way people see insulin change the way they see success for themselves change, you know, so that everybody doesn't feel burdened, make people who want to be, you know, diabetes practitioners. We're gonna think about it this way, like, really try to impact the space in an important way. And so when you hear me say, like, share the shows, so it grows like that is so I can charge money for ads. But that's so that I can keep making the show. Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I love money just like everybody else. That's not what I'm talking about, like, totally, I want to make the podcast bigger so that it reaches more people so that the ripples go farther, so that it can continue to work. Like that kind of thing. Like that's, that means a lot to me. So I just wanted to I just want people to live a better life, I saw somebody this morning online. And I can say this now, because this won't come out for six months. But their, their child talked about using insulin and appropriately to hurt themselves six months after a diagnosis because the kid doesn't want to have diabetes anymore. And you know, some people are going to feel that way. Well, what happens next is what's important, like, you're not going to stop somebody who's going to feel that way from feeling that way. But the help you get them next could redirect their lives. And I want that answer to be obvious and available to people for awesome. I'm talking to a person now who's in their 30s, they've had diabetes forever. And I've been following them on their their Dexcom for a while. And I'm just telling you, it's a it's just years of managing type one in a different way. And now having different tools and not knowing how to let go of the past and bring these new ideas into their management. Like, I just want to I keep telling the person like you have to Pre-Bolus your meals, right? Well, that's hard for me, I'm like, I don't care, like you want all this other stuff, right? But you won't Pre-Bolus the Pre-Bolus thing is why the other stuffs not coming like what either either do it or don't but don't keep telling me you want it but you're not willing to do it. And it's not her fault. It's she's in this is ingrained in her. Yeah, you know, and so I'm just trying to imagine that 30 years from now, it's ingrained in people in a different way. And the technology is that much better. And God, maybe there's no something that makes the whole thing easier, go away or whatever. But until then, I think about her, like I think about that woman the same way I think about your two year old when somebody sends me a message, they're like, they're like, look at my kids graph there to like, and I'm like, oh God, like I can't let this be like this, this is so simple to fix, like, so let's let's I just, I don't know, I have no idea why but I am. I feel sometimes responsible for things I'm not responsible for. So

Rachel 1:07:36
well. But that passion is definitely like, the, that passion is creating the ripples that are impacting people and people are hearing me, I think it's a great example of, you know, what we hope to do and being in the world. And, and the fact that you have the passion, and now the expertise to do it and to impact this change. It's, it's wonderful. And that those, those are the ripples that you're creating, it's great,

Scott Benner 1:08:02
I appreciate that. I'm, I love doing it. And I am I passionate it is absolutely the right word, like when I see somebody selling these ideas online, but they're like, you know, for six months, you can get my package, and I'm like, please do not give that person money. So they can explain to you that you need to Pre-Bolus and your basil has to be right, like, please don't do that. And yet they do. And people pay them $600,000 to get told something that three episodes of this podcast would be happy to tell you for free. And, you know, and and so that's where I'm still very, I'm a very American thinker about that I'm, I'm a capitalist, I think that I should get my money from someone else. And you should get the information for free,

Rachel 1:08:42
which is amazing for all of us. Because I definitely was benefiting from the free information.

Scott Benner 1:08:49
It's a barrier. If I imagine you get told to go to a podcast like you were you already got there. And you're like, wow, this is too much money, or too much information. I don't need it right now. If it costs money, would you ever come back? That's true. I don't know, I probably would have negative feelings associated with it. And so I had a person contact me recently. And they're like, you know, your podcast is big enough, you should have a Patreon. And I was like what she goes, people would be happy to give you money for making the podcast. I was like I make money for making the podcast. And she goes, Well, how many listeners do you have? And I told her how many the estimate is? And she said, Can you imagine if 10% of those people sent you $5 a month and I went Oh, I can't I never did before and then I was like, wouldn't be a bad thing, would it? And she goes, What would you do with it? And I said well, I would probably expand and I started thinking about how I would make the podcast better and how I could help the podcast reach more people and I thought should I do that? Like Like, did it mean and I'm stuck in that feeling because she's not wrong. It would generate funds and the funds would go a long way towards doing stuff for the show. And at the same time, I can't like I'm not of that generation. Like, it feels like I'd be making money for not doing anything for being me. And that doesn't seem right. Well, the therapist in me has lots of follow ups. Go five minutes, feel free to pick me apart?

Rachel 1:10:23
Well, I just I am curious about what like what it means to you to be getting money from like, what is that? What is the story that you're telling about? Why about getting money from people who enjoy the podcast?

Scott Benner 1:10:37
Well, I mean, I'm already making a reasonable amount of money for making the podcast. Mm hmm. And I really don't want to take money from people. So they can learn how to be healthy, I wouldn't want somebody to put their hand out to me and said, I can explain this to you for $5. And I realized that the podcast wouldn't be it wouldn't be. I think I'm right. To say that I'm wrong about this. I think it wouldn't be a big deal. If people who wanted to send a couple of dollars a month were able to do that.

Rachel 1:11:06
Well, because you're not you're not charging. It's not a paywall. It's not. So I think that the the hang up is not necessarily. It's not necessarily in that it, like changes your sense of values, or what you know, your vision is for the podcast, but there's something that you're there's a story you're telling about what it would mean, that I think is the hang up.

Scott Benner 1:11:33
Yeah, and it's not real.

Rachel 1:11:34
It's not real. I mean, we all tell stories to ourselves. That's, that's what we do. And, and I don't, I don't think it's useful to argue with stories, either. You can see them and notice them and be curious about them, but then also make some space for other stories. Like another story in this case might be, hey, somebody might really feel compelled to want to offer money as a thank you not because you're charging and not because you expect it. But to say, hey, this has been an invaluable resource for my family. And I want to say thank you. And it's, you know, just a way that you're making that option available. That's another story. And neither one is more true. It's just recognizing that it's, this is more about the meaning that you're making of the situation than necessarily the thoughts involved with this choice.

Scott Benner 1:12:21
Your Listen, you're right, because that already happens. Yeah, like people already send me like gifts. Yeah. And I'm, I'm like, Oh, I'm happy. The podcast helps you. Thank you. And you know, and you're right. It's something about me saying it out loud. That feels wrong to me by saying, Hey, I have a thing and you could support because I know what I would do. Like, I'd be happy to like, like, shut off the recording and tell you like some of the things that I've got going on right now that would be a lot easier with with some more money. You know what I mean? So, yeah, all right. Let me make some room for other stories and see, see how that feels. All right, Rachel. I'll think about it. Thank you. Alright. Hold on one second. I appreciate you doing this. By the way. Did we talk about everything you want to talk about, by the way?

Rachel 1:13:09
Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I could get real clinical and talk about some of the things that siblings might experience but I feel like I feel like we've done more just having a casual conversation.

Scott Benner 1:13:20
So do I. That's my magic. By the way. I'm only good enough. Yes, this is one of them. I want to thank Rachel for coming on the program and having this wonderful conversation with me. I'd also like to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and reminds you go to Contour Next one.com Ford slash juicebox. If you want to look in the show notes of your podcast player, there's a link there or I keep the links at Juicebox Podcast comm there's even a link to touched by type one in those exact places where you can just type into your browser touched by type one.org. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of the Juicebox Podcast.