#949 After Dark: Dead Frogs

Katie's story of living with type 1 diabetes for nearly two decades. Despite her challenging upbringing and lack of support, Katie has found ways to improve her health and take control of her diabetes. 

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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 949 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Sometimes I have so much trouble recording these. This is one of those times Katie is an adult she's had type one diabetes for nearly two decades. She grew up with a mom who was suffering, and she did not have a ton of help from her parents. Her health was questionable during that time, she's doing much better now. And this is her story. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to get five free travel packs in the year supply of vitamin D, you can do that with your first order of a G one. But you need to use my link, drink a G one.com forward slash juice box and you can save 35% off your entire order at cozy earth.com When you use the offer code juicebox. A went back and forth about this one being an after dark but I think it qualifies.

The podcast is sponsored today by better help. Better help is the world's largest therapy service and is 100% online. With better help, you can tap into a network of over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists who can help you with a wide range of issues. betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox. To get started, you just answer a few questions about your needs and preferences in therapy. That way BetterHelp can match you with the right therapist from their network. And when you use my link, you'll save 10% On your first month of therapy. You can message your therapist at any time and scheduled live sessions when it's convenient for you. Talk to them however you feel comfortable text chat phone or video call. If your therapist isn't the right fit. For any reason at all. You can switch to a new therapist at no additional charge. And the best part for me is that with better help you get the same professionalism and quality you expect from in office therapy. But with a therapist who is custom picked for you, and you're gonna get more scheduling flexibility, and a more affordable price. betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox that's better help h e l p.com. Forward slash juicebox. Save 10% On your first month of therapy.

Katie 2:48
So my name is Katie. I've been a type one diabetic for almost 17 years now. I'm from Washington State and I was recently married in September and now live in in Texas with my husband

Unknown Speaker 3:02
just got married. How old are you?

Katie 3:05
I am 29. As of last week,

Scott Benner 3:08
you were diagnosed in your 1212 Yep. Well, happy birthday.

Katie 3:13
Math. Yep.

Scott Benner 3:15
Well, I mean, it's it's nine minus seven.

Unknown Speaker 3:18
It's not that hard. So.

Scott Benner 3:21
But thank you, I do appreciate the compliment. So you're 29 you were diagnosed when you were 12? Is this your first time living not in the upper Northwest.

Katie 3:33
Um, I grew up in Washington, but then I was kind of, you know, a little bit all over the place. I moved to New Mexico after I graduated from college. And so I spent a couple years in New Mexico and that's where I actually met my my husband. And then we moved to West Texas for a couple of years and then more recently moved to South Texas.

Scott Benner 3:57
Very nice. Well, you said you were a little all over the place. Did you mean geographically or personally?

Katie 4:03
Probably both.

Scott Benner 4:07
Probably Probably. How? Let's think. How about your family? Let's start there. There are other autoimmune issues or anybody else with type one.

Katie 4:18
Nobody else with type one but there are some like thyroid, you know, Graves disease, other kinds of thyroid issues on my mom's side of the family. So I think you know, my grandma on that side. My aunt and my mom all have had thyroid problems and so the doctors think that maybe that could have something to do with with my type one.

Scott Benner 4:37
What's it I mean? It's obviously an indicator that autoimmune issues run in the family. Do you remember them having problems growing up? Or is it just the thing you know now because you have type one?

Katie 4:51
I don't remember them having problems growing up. It was just something that like after I was diagnosed looking back on it, it seemed like oh, hey, maybe that It played a played a role.

Scott Benner 5:02
Yeah, no. I mean, it's it's an indicator, right? Like it's not like it's not like them having hyperthyroidism, for example gives you type one diabetes, it's just the genetically you guys are more predisposed to having autoimmune issues.

Katie 5:15
Yeah, well, and then I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism as well, like a couple years after I was diagnosed with type one.

Scott Benner 5:21
Yeah, you don't want to get out of the club. I mean, if it's gonna, probably felt left out, you're probably like, Oh, I hope I get thyroid issues. I can be like everybody else. How old were you when you got the hypothyroidism?

Katie 5:35
Um, so it's interesting because I think I was first diagnosed when I was maybe like 14 or 15. And then I was on Synthroid for a year or two, until the doctors told me, you know, you're too borderline to continue taking it. And so they stopped it. And then it wasn't until a couple years ago, maybe two years ago, now that I started back up on it at the time, I didn't probably pay as close attention to the lab work as I should have. And knowing now, like, I wish I would have never let the doctor take me off of it, because I was still experiencing like, a lot of those, you know, typical hypothyroid symptoms, and I probably needed it. But yeah, that's kind of where we're at.

Scott Benner 6:19
That's super interesting. So you they had you managed well, and then some lab results, that somebody obviously didn't understand very well made them take you off of it. But once you started having, I mean, did you just restart your experiences that you were having like, did the centroid stop it and then without the centroid, it was back?

Katie 6:39
Well, I was a lot younger when I was first on it, like I was 14, or 15. And so I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the symptoms at the time, it was more just, you know, the doctor said that I need this medication. So I'm gonna go ahead and take it. And you know, my parents went ahead and started me on that medication. And so I think it was maybe that I switched positions, and the new physician told me that, hey, I don't know why they started you on this, you don't actually need it, or whatever it was. And so when they said that, me just trusting the doctor, I'm thinking, Okay, well, maybe I fixed salt or whatever it was, yeah,

Scott Benner 7:13
then you're a kid and you don't like you're probably just happy to take a pill.

Katie 7:17
Yeah, and it just kind of like left my brain. And then it wasn't until maybe three, four years ago that I started kind of googling some of the symptoms that I was having. And I came up with hypothyroidism. And that's when I was like, Hey, I think at one point, I actually was taking medication for that and then went back retested my thyroid and started up

Scott Benner 7:41
again, Katie, you are outlining one of my major fears about being a parent. What is that? Well, I'll tell you, luckily, for you, I'm, I'm ready to talk. I'm just kidding. Kidding. I could talk about anything. But I'm being serious. This is a an actual concern of mine, that I spent years, days, weeks, months, whatever, figuring out something for my kids. And then once they're not around me anymore, they forget about it, or some doctor away, lays them or something happens. And then they begin to experience these issues over again and have to go back through the process of figuring it out. I honestly that's one of my concerns about my kids getting older.

Katie 8:27
Yeah, I mean, I get it. And I went basically a whole decade with without a medication that I probably should have been on the whole time.

Scott Benner 8:36
Yes. See, that. I used to this is, I'm overusing the phrase, but that that breaks my heart. Like it really does that, that you were because of the last time because you had a thing figured out, you know, and then you had to go back through it again for 10 years. It's just sucks. Anyway, I'll drop in here. If your TSH is over two, and you have symptoms, don't let a doctor tell you that you're in range. That's all. There's, there's my thoughts about that. Right. Okay, so what do you remember about getting the diabetes?

Katie 9:09
Um, so I was 12 at the time, and I remember that. I had all those typical type one symptoms, I had a lot of, you know, the weight loss, really thirsty, peeing constantly in the middle of the night, all of that. And it's, it's interesting because I always mentioned this, whenever I tell people about my diagnosis story that that same year in our PE class, we would run a mile in the beginning of the year and then run a mile at the end of the year. And I was in really good shape as a child. I was a gymnast growing up and so like, you know, I really did well that the beginning of the year for that first mile. I think I ran I don't know a seven minute mile or under seven minute mile. And the mile at the end of the year was actually a couple of weeks before I was diagnosed. Hmm, so that mile was like 12 or 13 minutes, compared to, you know, the time that I had in the beginning of the year before diabetes. So that was kind of one thing looking back where it's like, well, it makes sense. If you're in DKA, DKA, that mile is, you know, you're gonna be a lot.

Scott Benner 10:20
Take you takes a lot more effort to get around the track. I couldn't do it with or without diabetes. I don't have diabetes, but trust me if I did, I don't think it would be any slower than it was already. Not much. Was this part of the President's physical fitness challenge that still exists when you were in high school?

Katie 10:37
I was in middle school. So I think this was seventh grade. I'm not sure if it was a fitness challenge or for or if it was just something that our PE teacher did at the time, like, as part of, you know, his class, but, but I do remember that my whole family was like, why did it take you so much longer to run that last mile as compared to the one at the beginning of the year? So Yeah,

Scott Benner 11:00
no kidding. And so once you notice that, does that, like make everybody sit around and go? I wonder what that is about? Or was it just the thing you remember being said that it got lost?

Katie 11:12
I think a little bit of both. Um, I would say that there were a couple of other things that also added to that suspicion. So when I was in seventh grade, one of the big things that I think prompted my parents to take me into the doctor was that I went to a football game like a middle school football game with a friend of mine and her parents. The parent had mentioned to my mom or dad or whoever, at the time, that I sat and drank probably like 15. Coca Cola is within the span of the football game. Like no exaggeration, 15 Coca Cola cans, because I was just constantly going back to the snack stand and just so thirsty, that it really like rang some bells and in that parent's head. Yeah.

Scott Benner 12:01
You imagine them sitting there that whole time being like, there's something really wrong with this kid.

Katie 12:05
You know, seriously, that's exactly exactly what it was. And so, basically, there was there was a morning where our entire extended family was supposed to go to the pumpkin patch that day, actually, the day that I was diagnosed, I think my parents thought just bring her in, make sure everything's okay. Just to be sure. And, you know, they bought brought me into the pediatricians office and explain some of the symptoms that I was having when the pediatrician tested my blood sugar. And it was like, I don't know, well over 600, or whatever it was. And so no pumpkin patch that day. But what I did get, you know, sent straight to the ER,

Scott Benner 12:46
hold on a second, Katie, something just went past my house that rumble the entire like, block. People, people have to, like calm down a little with. I want my car to sound exciting. So you wait a minute. So hold on a second, you actually got a good diagnosis, then, like you were with an adult who wasn't your parent who was like, There's something wrong. They told your parents who went okay, that does sound crazy. And you went to a doctor was like, that sounds like diabetes, and I'll check your blood sugar. You have like a good diagnosis story.

Katie 13:16
For the most part, there were other things Yeah, that my parents picked up on. So I would say that I think the other parent mentioning it to my parents was kind of the tip of the iceberg where they're like, Okay, that's it, we're taking her in. Okay, um, but the one thing that I will mention is, although the pediatrician did send me straight to the hospital, like, before we went to the pediatricians office, I was just, I'm thirsty all the time. And one of my favorite things to drink was like those strawberry cream frappuccinos from Starbucks. And so my parents convinced me to go into the doctor's office by telling me that have one after we left? And the pediatrician was like, oh, yeah, that's fine. You can stop at Starbucks, grab, grab her sugary drink on the way to the ER with a 600 blood sugar. So I always think that that's interesting, looking back being like, the pediatrician sees I'm clearly, you know, type one diabetic with blood sugar over 600. But it's still like, Yeah, no worries. So head and get her 80 grams of sugar on the way to the hospital.

Scott Benner 14:19
probably thinking, Oh, let the kid have one last big sugary drink without thinking about it ever, you know, I don't know. Maybe they don't know the difference. And or maybe they saw your parents who were like, Oh, God, I know what's coming, or did your parents not understand diabetes at all?

Katie 14:36
I think that they had kind of a general understanding. I had grandparents that had type two. So their understanding was more with type two. And so that's why they were able to recognize some of those symptoms. But as far as type one goes, I think that it was it was a pretty big learning curve for everybody.

Unknown Speaker 14:57
I see. Oh,

Scott Benner 14:58
how long did it take? For the things that you mentioned in your notes to start happening,

Katie 15:05
things that I mentioned in my No,

Scott Benner 15:07
this is fun because you signed up six months ago, you don't remember what you wrote at all, do you?

Katie 15:12
Oh, I probably Yeah, I mean, I probably just mentioned that, you know, I really struggled throughout my teen years with with management and, and things like that, which, which is true, I wouldn't say that. For the first year or two after my diagnosis, things were okay. Things were not great. But my agencies were maybe seven or eight. Okay. And so, and I think I had I had a good amount of support at that time. And then once I started high school, I think that's when things really started to like, drop off

Scott Benner 15:46
it, how does it? How does that begin? Like what's, like, if you think back on it now hindsight, what happened first, like, because you're talking here about use the word non compliance mental health issues, talking about family dynamics, diet bulimia, like, Do you can you look back and see the first warning sign of any of this?

Katie 16:10
Yeah, I think that there's probably a few different things, but one would be that I actually had a seizure around that time. Um, so I was having a sleepover with, you know, a friend of mine, and basically had a seizure in my sleep. And so that was kind of a scary experience for me. And looking back, I think that that maybe just not even subconsciously, almost just made me fearful of going below a certain number. And then my blood sugar's were just running higher after that. And then also just kind of starting high school, I remember not wanting to Bolus in front of people not wanting to feel any, any different than the other kids like. I mean, it was it was one thing in middle school, when it was a much smaller group of kids, I think there were like, 30 kids in my eighth grade class. And so I didn't feel as much pressure to like, hide things. But I just remember feeling like, I needed to hide my diabetes from people once I started high school.

Scott Benner 17:15
So not only are you, you know, hiding, but you had this experience that led you to think like, well, I don't want my blood sugar to go this low again. So everything is lending itself to not carrying, carrying strong word not using insulin the way you should be.

Katie 17:33
Yeah, definitely. And I also, I mean, maybe didn't fully realize that at the time that that was what was actually happening. And then once I started to run, like, certain numbers, once I started to get into those really higher numbers, I remember just feeling like a lot of guilt, and really, like shameful that my numbers were so high, and feeling like I couldn't control them. Because I think I was, once you run high for a certain amount of time, your body is just, it's hard to get those back down, your body gets used to it.

Scott Benner 18:08
Yeah, there's no, it doesn't signal to you anymore. And you don't realize that you're altered?

Unknown Speaker 18:14
No, not at all. Well, so

Scott Benner 18:17
Well, let me let me ask you a question about that. So as we're talking about it now, do you even see it? Like, the seizure happens? You think, oh, I want to be a little higher than you get self conscious? And then while What do I do I hide the diabetes means I don't use insulin as much. And then these things like just sort of when your blood sugar gets higher, you get accustomed to that. And it happens almost silently, right? Like, I mean, we're talking about it now. So it's easy to segment out and point to it. But while it's happening to you, you don't recognize any of that happening. I imagined

Katie 18:51
No, I did not recognize any of that happening at the time, I knew that my blood sugars weren't good. Like, in the moment, I knew that my blood sugars were bad, but I didn't really understand like, why or what was going on with me and to recognize like what was happening and I also just remember feeling like I constantly had to hide my blood sugars or if I tested and I was five or 600 like feeling just so bad about the number that instead of just being like, Okay, well let's deal with it and bring it back down. Like it instead it led me to just not want to test my blood sugar at all. Like

Scott Benner 19:30
yeah, so these things happen. They lead you in a direction that direction. You're not unaware that you've arrived at it. So you're like, Okay, now you feel wrong, I'm doing the wrong thing or I'm not doing well enough or whatever the feelings are. And then it just keeps building then you feel guilty ashamed. I imagined to

Katie 19:50
guilty ashamed. And then, you know, I went through different stages of trying to bring it back down. Like I knew that I wanted to be healthy. I knew that I wasn't in the ideal situation. And that it wasn't, wasn't doing anything good for my body, right? Like you hear about all these complications from your doctors and your parents and everything. So I remember trying to bring it back down, but then almost feeling as soon as something went wrong, or as soon as I would get back over 200, or 300, or whatever number, I'm kind of throwing my hands up and being like, I'm never gonna be able to do this, I can't do this, you know, like, and then going back into that cycle of just not taking care of myself not wanting to see the numbers not wanting to deal with it, like being in denial,

Scott Benner 20:37
that failure then after you try to address it, and and it doesn't work out for you, then that failure just drives you back in the other direction again, plus this this where is this where an eating disorder comes in?

Katie 20:50
Yeah, I would say that that probably came in a little bit later, towards like the end of high school, maybe beginning of college even. And that I think, really fed from the fact that my body got so used to running with such high blood sugars, that every time I would try and bring them back down, like, I would immediately just like swell up. So I know that that sounds like crazy, but I would say spend three days with my blood sugar back down in a normal range, like my body hated it, it got so used to those high blood sugars that I just felt like crap, like,

Scott Benner 21:33
like you were low, even though you were at a reasonable number.

Katie 21:36
I wouldn't even say like, maybe I would feel kind of low. But it was more that like, I got so puffy. And I don't know if that's like common for diabetics, or if that happens, you know, frequently when people try and bring their numbers down after spending so long, high, but like, serious, serious fluid retention to the point where like, my skin is tight and uncomfortable. And that actually, like once I eventually did get my numbers back down. I had to go through months of like, really uncomfortable. Um, I don't know if it's necessarily neuropathy, because I don't have those symptoms anymore. But like shooting pains in my legs, fluid retention, and just feeling really lethargic, even and just sick all the time, like nauseous, I felt sick constantly.

Scott Benner 22:23
Hmm, that's interesting. So you're trying to do the right thing. And your body's almost feeling to you. Like, it's signaling that this is the wrong thing. But you intellectually you know, it's right. So you push through it eventually.

Katie 22:33
Yeah, and I think that I mean, that wasn't until I was maybe 24. So I spent a good decade with a onesies between like 10 and 14. Mobley. I'm sorry,

Scott Benner 22:45
you. You. I just lost you from it between a onesie between 10 and

Katie 22:52
10 and 14, probably for about a decade.

Scott Benner 22:55
Wow. Do you have any health impacts from that?

Katie 22:59
Yeah, I mean, I do I've got a little bit of like pots. I don't know how familiar with kind of some dizziness if I stand up too fast and things like that with like, my, my, my pulse and so I've got some some pots. And then I had some retinopathy treatments in my eyes. They're stable right now, which I'm really thankful for. But I think all things considered. Considering how much time I probably spent in DKA, between the ages of like 15 and 25, I feel lucky to not have any more serious complications. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:41
Pots, by the way, somebody kindly call it pots, pots because it's Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, and that does not that does not roll off the tongue. Are you taking beta blockers or anything like that?

Katie 23:55
No, I'm not taking any beta blockers. I noticed that just making like small kind of lifestyle changes really helps with that. There was a period once I got my blood sugar's under better control where I was just like Dizzy constantly couldn't stand up without feeling like I wanted to pass out, you know, your pulse racing. And then I started just kind of getting more active. So going out and like going on hikes and just kind of like pushing through some of that and that is actually what helped me the most

Scott Benner 24:28
interesting. How many electrolytes electrolytes, how many times do you think you were in DK in that decade?

Katie 24:39
I honestly I don't, I don't know probably a lot. I remember under

Scott Benner 24:45
10 Probably more than 10 more than once a year. Yeah. Yeah. Was the dka part of your management system I want spoke to somebody privately who described their diabetes management as not existence, then I go into DK then the hospital brings me back, then I go home, then I go back into DK was that part of your cycle,

Katie 25:07
I would say that I did not go to the hospital every time I was in DKA. I, I feel like I was probably in DKA. And would just treat myself with like a giant dose of insulin like I remember there is a period of time where I wouldn't do any insulin until I started to feel sick. And then I would just crank like 15 units on that noble log pen, and then inject myself and to bring those blood sugars back down. So I think I was in decay, probably more than I or anybody else really realized at the time, I feel like I was almost living in this constant like bouncing between, you know, bringing myself back down, and maybe somewhat normal blood sugars, and then just eating whatever I wanted to not dosing and then going right back up into GK,

Scott Benner 26:00
I'm normally not this hamfisted Katie, but I don't want this moment to go by without the listeners really appreciating that what started out as you trying to avoid being low, put you in a situation where you were using a massive amount of insulin that could have made you very low.

Katie 26:16
Yeah, no, it's it's definitely scary looking back. But I just remember that, like, I would be really sick and throwing up like, which is clearly DK, high blood sugar, throwing up sick and just think, Okay, I've got to get this blood sugar down. So I would just give myself a massive dose, but then I would go on continuing to eat whatever I wanted. Not testing. And so I mean, so definitely some very management.

Scott Benner 26:47
So here's some questions around that. My son, now I've been talking to you for almost a half an hour, you're a bright person so and you sound like your family around you? Or did you not by that point?

Katie 27:01
No, I had family around me. Um, my dad was definitely I would say most involved with, with management. Um, he would kind of test me in the middle of the night when after I was first diagnosed, he would be the one to kind of help me out with some of those things. But I think as I became a teenager, I just became really resistant to let anybody in. And I didn't want people even asking me what my blood sugar was. Or if they did, I would lie. And just like, I felt like a failure. And I felt like it was something I was never going to be able to, to figure out. And so I just didn't want to ask for help or anybody to even know that I was struggling as badly as I was. And so I would just kind of deny, deny, deny lie about blood sugars. And, and that was how I was living as a teenager.

Scott Benner 27:53
Do you have a feeling for how much of that was your situation? And how you felt? And how much of that might have been? Because your as your mind is altered with the high blood sugars? Did you ever do Ever think about that? Like, would you have done it? I mean, like, because when your blood sugar gets high, you get surly, and, you know, kind of short tempered and things like that. And like was that like your normal?

Katie 28:19
Yeah, that was kind of my normal. And I think, looking back, my dad actually realized a lot of this, like, he would call it the high blood sugar monster. So I mean, realize that a lot of what I was experiencing and was so closely tied to the uncontrolled diabetes, um, but I didn't want to think that way. Like, I just, I never wanted to believe that it was affecting me as much as it was. And so, you know,

Scott Benner 28:53
you wouldn't have the ability to, to really think that through I think that's something that's something that gets lost. In that conversation. I have an episode that isn't isn't out yet. But was talking to a person whose, whose husband had type one was not, you know, no semblance of management to speak on really high blood sugars. And she would talk about the bad decisions he would make and all I could think while she was talking was like, Yeah, I mean, he probably was not in the right mindset to make a decision about anything. And, and we and we don't see that, because, like, I think your story illustrates how slowly it comes over you it's almost like it's almost like a shadow. You don't I mean, when the sun's going down, and it just kind of creeps across wherever you are, and you don't realize that all of a sudden you're in the dark and it's just that's like that that's slow death. You know, I think I think some snakes kill that way. They just get a hold of you and just slowly or what's the sea example people use lobster in a pot right or no frog the frog you ever heard the frog thing? Katie, sorry, it took me a while to get to it

hey, everybody better help as a sponsor of the podcast, and they're offering my listeners 10% off their first month of therapy, it's a great deal, I hope you can check it out better help.com forward slash juicebox. Now better help is the world's largest therapy service that is 100%. Online, they have over 25,000 licensed and experienced therapists that can help you with a wide range of issues. All you have to do to get started, just hit my link, answer a few questions about your needs and preferences and therapy. And that way BetterHelp will be able to match you with the right therapist from their network, better help.com forward slash juicebox you're gonna get the same professionalism and quality as you'd expect from in office therapy. And if for any reason your therapist isn't right for you, you can switch to a new one at no additional charge, do therapy on your terms, text chat, phone video call. And you can even message your therapist at any time and then schedule a live session when it's more convenient. So if you're looking for someone to talk to check out better help.

If you put a frog in a pot of cold water and turn it on, and the water slowly warms up, and then boils, the frog will stay in there and die. But if you Oh yeah, you throw a frog in a hot pot little jumper down. I think that's what happened to you. I think you that it just slowly the water warmed up and you just didn't notice it happening. And then by the time it was happening, it was too late. Except I'm trying to understand why. Why was there not an opportunity for the people around you to say, Hey, Katie, you went to the doctrine agency is 10, we need to do something? Did you push them away that harshly that they weren't able to do that?

Katie 32:02
I mean, I think I did push my family away pretty harshly. Don't get me wrong, I was a very, I think volatile and a little bit out of control teenager talking to me about diabetes in general was just difficult. And my dad certainly tried, I would say that my mom was definitely less involved, and didn't really try and have any of those types of conversations with me. But I also think that in looking looking back, I can't really blame my parents for anything, because I don't even know if they had taken a different approach with me. Like, if anything would have worked to be honest. I don't know if anything really would have nope, shook me out of that kind of zombie state that I think I was living in for such a long time. But I really think the the mindset was like, like more of a disciplinary mindset regarding diabetes as much as like a supportive atmosphere. Things were pretty volatile in my house growing up, um, and just, I didn't have great structure at home. Um,

Scott Benner 33:14
can you give me a tiny bit of feeling for what what that was? I don't need like the deep personal, you know, Secrets of your parents. But what was happening?

Katie 33:24
Yeah, so, um, I, I mean, I would say that my mom in general is a pretty just unstable person and could be really harsh. Could be kind of verbally abusive, um, could be just cold in general. And so I just I don't really ever remember feeling like I had much support. I think that my dad certainly tried to reach out every now and then to help me. Um, but it was just it was really difficult for me there was constant arguing going on in my household. It was just, I remember trying to lock myself away in my room so that I didn't have to just deal with kind of the the craziness in the house right? Um, so these

Scott Benner 34:15
were not people who in general were a rock that you would go to about anything let alone something this confusing and, and, and deep. They are.

Katie 34:28
My mom definitely wasn't I can tell you right now that like, I never felt like I could go to her with these types of problems. I remember a couple of times trying to go to her with like different issues going on in my life. And she would either like kind of ignore it and just change the subject because it made her uncomfortable, or she would get mad or whatever it is. I just never felt like I could go to her with really anything. And then I think my dad has much of like that. That mindset of we'll just take Can't just just do it, like just inject yourself with your insulin, just test like I don't, and really just wanting to more like control the situation versus, like, understand it and figure out like, what's going on, I think that he was just, it hurt him to watch me have such high blood sugars. And instead of like trying to talk to me and really get to the bottom of what was happening and support me he's like, Just do it. Like, just get your blood like it's not that hard. So that was kind of I think what I went through at the time,

Scott Benner 35:37
Katie, your name is a bit of a giveaway because I can see your full name but Catholic. Yes, Irish.

Unknown Speaker 35:45
I'm

Scott Benner 35:47
English. Your mom.

Katie 35:49
Actually. Mom's side is Native American

Scott Benner 35:52
really? Interesting. Perfectly. Oh, okay. All right. Oh, I was just looking for like a you said cold. I went to Irish, sorry, Irish people. That's from my own experience. Don't worry.

Katie 36:06
Yeah. And then dad side is Italian so

Scott Benner 36:10
and they just sort of like they were both ill equipped in different ways.

Katie 36:17
Yeah, I think so. And I think that my dad tried in his way for sure. Like, he definitely tried in his way. But I just don't think that it was really what I needed at the time. I'm a 1415 year old girl who's going through a lot and felt like, was really depressed and dealing with just so much that I don't I don't know if there was really anything that he could have said, but it. I just didn't feel like I had much support. That's all.

Scott Benner 36:46
Do you have a relationship with your mom now?

Unknown Speaker 36:48
No, no.

Scott Benner 36:50
Did you get anything out of this? Katie, do you own a piece of a casino or anything?

Katie 36:57
No, I don't own a piece of a casino or anything like

Scott Benner 37:00
that screwed over Katie.

Katie 37:03
I know, I should go back and ask if I can.

Scott Benner 37:05
Hi, my name is Katie. And I think I deserve some of this casino. Yeah, I think that would be uncomfortable if you're at school. But I'm sorry, I think I said something stupid. When you were other say something serious about why you don't talk to your mom.

Katie 37:20
Yeah, so I'm actually, her and my dad got divorced a couple of years ago. And that was really like kind of what set up. I guess that the end of that relationship between the two of us, we always had a really unstable relationship. Personally, I, I think she struggles with kind of a lot of mental health issues still, and potentially some borderline personality disorder. But when they got divorced, it very much felt at least how I, how I felt it was was that she expected me just to turn on my dad and tell her that, you know, I was 100% on her side and anything like, you know, can't talk to your dad, you shouldn't have a relationship with your that's how it felt. She never necessarily said that. But she would call me yelling and screaming about you know, this is what your dad did. And she really wanted to try and turn me against him. And that ultimately kind of led to the end of our relationship.

Scott Benner 38:30
I'm sorry, that sucks. Okay, did you have any mental health issues of your own aside from the eating thing? And by the way, when you said you had an eating disorder? What's the manifestation of that? Were you limiting food? Or were you limiting insulin to limit weight?

Katie 38:49
I was limiting insulin. Because I would notice that if I would bring my blood sugar's down, like I said before, I kind of get this big puffed up feeling and then as soon as I would get back up into the five or six hundreds, it's like all that water weight would just immediately drop, like, and, you know, I mean, DKA your body is basically starving itself. Like that's, that's what it is your body is, is starving itself. And that is obviously a horrible, horrible way to deal with feelings of, of not liking the way that you look. But that that was at the time when I didn't really know any better. That's how I was dealing with it. And

Scott Benner 39:35
do you have issues with how you appear?

Katie 39:40
I think at the time I did, I mean, not any more. But I more would just notice like very small fluctuations in weight that would really bother me. So even if I gained like five or 10 pounds or whatever it was, it impacted me in a really big way.

Scott Benner 39:58
I hate to say it, but If you were on that thyroid medication, you might have had an easier time with that as well. Be probably Yeah, it's, it's it's interesting how little mistakes from a doctor or misunderstandings about things, you know, because you start using insulin again, you're probably eating, not healthy, I would imagine because you could probably eat whatever you wanted while you weren't using insulin and it wasn't affecting your body weight. So now you're eating all this food, I'm imagining and using insulin and gaining weight very quickly because of that. And that, by the way, is it's one of the reasons why you hear people have the misconception that insulin makes you gain weight. Because yeah, calories make you gain weight, not insulin. And but people confuse that because it's how they say it. I started using more insulin, I gained weight. Well, Katie story illuminates that perfectly. How did you? Why are you so normal? Are you pretending to be right now? What's happening?

Katie 40:58
Am I Am I normal? I don't think I'm normal. I

Scott Benner 41:00
mean, you're fairly normal. Katie, I talked to a lot of people. And they're all lovely, on some spectrum. Lovely. I've never met a person on the show that I thought like, a terrible person. But but you're having a very cogent, reasonable conversation about people who were really hurtful to you, and you're not lashing out at them, like you're not treating them where your mom would have treated them. You know, you're you're being well measured and thoughtful, you're seeing their side of things, like, and but you've described yourself as like, a volleyball team. How did you get from there to here?

Katie 41:37
Um, well, to start with, I think that if you had maybe talked to me, a couple of years ago, I probably wouldn't have been as objective as I am now about the situation with my mom, I haven't talked to her in a couple of years. And so I think just time and space has kind of given me the distance to settle down in that regard. Yeah, kind of see. It is what it is.

Scott Benner 42:05
Yeah. I don't want you to like, say, terrible, but I've been thinking this for the last 15 minutes. I don't want to say this out loud. But getting away from your mom. Fix your life. Yes.

Katie 42:20
In some regards. Yes. In other regards. In in a lot of regards. Yes. Actually, I would say I would say that, that decision really improved my overall mental health it really improved the other relationships in my life. And it gave me the space to really almost understand her better and see the ways that that relationship was negatively impacting me. Because it was I mean, I was dealing with almost like I was dealing with arguments with her on almost a daily basis and like certain behaviors that frankly, like you shouldn't have to deal with as a child like as a child. I mean, not necessarily that I was a child but as her child things that I was dealing with it just shouldn't have ever been happening

Scott Benner 43:14
was there a lot of I hate this word, but I'm going to just use it here because it fits did she gaslight you a lot? Where did you find yourself in arguments where you're like, vehemently defending something that later if you step back and felt like none of that was even real? What we were just talking about like, oh gosh,

Katie 43:30
yeah, like I remember she she dug through like my phone records and banking statements trying to find like, basically proof that I was talking to my dad or talking to my grandma and then to use all this stuff against me. And like she, once this kind of divorce started, it really triggered a lot of these behaviors that I think we all lived with and saw for a long time, but it just seemed like it escalated everything. And so I just there was the moment for me where I was recently engaged me and my now husband had just gotten engaged and we were driving back from a great weekend of telling his family and we were just like on cloud nine. And in the car and her calling me and just screaming because she saw on my phone records that I had called my grandmother. And she thought that I was you know, talking to my grandma about her trying to talk bad about her when I'm sitting there and I'm like I just was calling my grandma like I'm just talking to my grandma like I don't understand and you know, the the volatile the screaming and the yelling and just my husband pulling over the car at the time and he put it in park and walked over to the to the passenger door, open the door, grab the phone, hung it up and gave me a hug and was like, you don't need to deal with that right now. He

Scott Benner 44:59
loves You Katie I thought he was you were gonna say he walked on the side of the door, opened the door, got me out and said, I can't take this. I'll see you later. I might have been like, I got I picked the wrong girl, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm looked at this lady on top of that, oh, but no, look at him that very night. There's one of those great moments where you know, you met the right person.

Katie 45:23
Yeah, no one completely. And I remember him being kind of what would bring me back down in those situations, because he would hang up the phone, give me a hug, and just be like, this isn't this isn't fair. Like that, that isn't okay, though, the way that she's talking to you. And we're, this is such a happy time in our lives. And, you know, let's just not deal with that right now. And me being really thankful for him stepping in, in certain situations and making me feel like I wasn't crazy. Because, frankly, dealing with someone like, like that can make you sometimes feel like you're crazy. So

Scott Benner 46:00
this is the next thing on my list. Right? I make notes as we're talking. And I was gonna say, like you said, you dealt with mental health issues. But I mean, was it a situation where you actually had your own concerns? Or was it the idea of like, if you lock me in a cage with a tiger, and I cry, you don't get the things I have a mental health issue because I'm crying? It's because I'm locked in a cage with a tiger. So like, no, no,

Katie 46:24
I think I, I mean, I think some of some of those mental health issues definitely stemmed from that relationship. But I think, um, like, the depression and other things that I dealt with really stemmed from me, not taking care of my diabetes, and the fear that I had around, like, what that would mean for me and feeling like really hopeless. Like, for the longest time, for basically an entire decade, I just felt hopeless, like, I was never gonna get, you know, my blood sugar's down, I couldn't do it, I was gonna die at a young age, I hear about all these complications. Just thinking that this is my life, like, I'm gonna feel sick for the rest of my life. And there's nothing that I can do to dig myself out of this hole. And then also, like seeing that impact all of my relationships, because the people around you as much as you can try and hide it from people. They know. I mean, at least my dad and a lot of the people who are close in close to me in my life, they could see it. I mean, you can smell DKA you can see it on someone's face. And so as much as they would try and help me like, I just would not let anybody in.

Scott Benner 47:36
Yeah. For nothing to Katie, like, you're going to probably you thinking of having kids? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So there'll be a day when this is going to make more sense to you than it might right now. But a lot of that blame shifts to your parents, like, I mean, I understand your mom seems limited in a number of ways, and that maybe she's not a person you can count on. But still, she's the person you had to count on, and she wasn't there. And your dad is obviously going through a lot. I don't think that his life, like dealing with what you're describing sounds super exciting. But it's still his job to push past all that and help you. You know, and, and so you get let down a couple of times here. And then there's the yelling, and the craziness. And then you feel crazy. And then there's the realization that your health is, you know, tenuous at best. You look up, no one's going to help you. You've tried to do something, it didn't work out. I mean, yeah, you're depressed. But I mean, I think you probably shouldn't be, you know what I mean? Like, do you see do you not have that depression anymore?

Katie 48:46
No, um, I would say that, once the diabetes kind of got under control, a lot of these issues went away for me. And then, you know, I've got a great relationship with my dad now. So um, once. I don't know, it seems like once the diabetes got under control, everything else really just clicked into place in my life. Yeah. I met my husband, maybe six months after I first decided like, Okay, that's it. I'm getting this under control. So it really was a matter of I got scared to the point where I decided that's it. I'm not doing this anymore. And I got on an insulin pump. My agency started very slowly going down, but you know, it did get down. And then things really just started to get easier for me in general.

Scott Benner 49:49
It's amazing. It's really cool. And you and you're I mean, the thing about the depression just sticks with me like I don't know how you wouldn't be depressed in that situation. Is what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And are you? I'm sorry, I have a question here. I'm trying to phrase it. Do you think that the rest of your life is going to significantly look different than the first part?

Katie 50:23
Oh, I know that. Yeah, I know it will.

Scott Benner 50:26
And do you see what your dad must have been going through?

Katie 50:34
Yes. Which is, I think, why I now look back and understand. I understand his, his actions and his mindset at the time more than I did before. I ultimately think that even for my mom as well, I think everybody was just scared for me. And they didn't really know how to handle that. Um, so

Scott Benner 51:03
yeah, and by the way, I don't think all the time that that lack of help from people is an indication of apathy. I do just think sometimes people are just in over their heads. And you know, then there are other influences making the minutes of their day. untenable. And then And then, you know, before you know it, you think, well, we'll fix it, or it'll get better, or, you know, like, maybe, maybe she'll grow out of it. Or if like, who knows what you think, like, you're just hoping you're gonna wake up the next day to a different situation.

Katie 51:33
Yeah, and I think, to be honest, I think that having my mom in the house, the entire house feel really like just not a not a great place. Like my dad was dealing with a lot. He was dealing a lot. So is as much as I can go back and say, oh, you should have done this or done that. It's really hard for me to place any blame there.

Scott Benner 51:56
Did anyone ever tried to help your mom?

Unknown Speaker 51:59
Like, yeah, professionally?

Katie 52:02
Yeah, um, and my dad, I mean, spent the last however many years of their marriage trying to help her and it just seemed like nothing ever really thought through to her.

Scott Benner 52:15
I guess you ever speak to him about it? Does he feel I can, excuse me? I can imagine even though you've tried everything, and it's obvious, it's not going to work? Because the other person's resistant? You still might feel badly? Is that the right word like that you that you weren't able to come through for them? Do you think he ever has that? See, were spoken about it?

Katie 52:38
come through for me or for

Scott Benner 52:41
for I'm asking about your mom first, but then I was gonna move over?

Katie 52:44
I don't think so. I think both me and him look back on it thinking that everybody tried everything that they could Yeah. Um, and that's really all you can all you can do for me, though. And it took me a long time to make peace with the fact that I was going to end that relationship with her and that I did everything that I could to try and improve things between us and that I just was never going to get there.

Scott Benner 53:14
I think it helps to realize that you can't expect something from a person that they don't have to give. Yeah, that's very helpful. Sometimes. You're my last question about your mom, was there any, like drug use?

Katie 53:27
Um, no, no, no drug use? She did use, I think alcohol to cope somewhat. So there was definitely some alcohol use there. But, but no, no.

Scott Benner 53:42
All right. So why do you want to come on the show to tell people look, I started in a hole that was 50 feet deep, and I made it out. Because I assume that's what you want to say. But

Katie 53:54
yeah, I think so. And then I started listening to your podcast maybe eight months ago. So and I do want to say that I was already digging myself out of the hole when I came across your podcast. So I had been on an insulin pump and really trying to get my my blood sugar's down. I think maybe my agency was seven and a half when I started listening to your podcast,

Scott Benner 54:18
it had a nice reduction already, then that's amazing.

Katie 54:21
Oh, yeah, well, in my last one was 6.5. So it's still going down. So I feel pretty proud of you know, being well in the six is now

Scott Benner 54:33
nice. I mean, it's you should you should have been, I mean, you should be proud. It's a it's a hell of an accomplishment, especially from where you started, you know. So,

Katie 54:43
but I guess when I started listening to your podcast, I started from the beginning and then I got to the bowl beginning series, and like binge listen to all of those, and just found so much of it so helpful, and I think it really helped me get from, like, 7.5 into the six is just because there were a lot of things that I learned that that I implemented like every day. So just wanted to say that

Scott Benner 55:14
I appreciate you told me actually, the irony of you saying that is that four hours ago, I had a phone call with one of the advertisers who asked if they were they're putting up a one sheet and doctor's office is just a, you know, like a, an information sheet. And they wanted to know if they could use the bowl beginning series on the one sheet. And, and I don't know if it's going to work out or not, I think it's going to just sort of why I'm talking about it right now. Because we haven't like, like, dotted the I's and cross the T's or anything like that yet, but I think that's gonna happen. And it's just, it's when they were talking about it, I thought, Oh, I love that series. And that will definitely help but then you get a little like, I don't know, self count, like self something. Like I'm like, Oh, I hope that's okay. And then just to hear you say that today makes me feel so much better about about the idea of doing that. So I think that's a that's a great idea. Yeah, I'm super happy to help you. Terrific, honestly. How involved is the husband with the diabetes?

Katie 56:19
Oh, he's great. He's super involved. Um, like, he is just all the support in the world that I could could ask for. So he doesn't by any means, like, overstep or anything like that. But if I ever need any support, I can ask him for any help that I need. And he's, he's there. He's on it. So I remember even a couple nights ago, just being like, I really don't want to deal with my blood sugar's tonight, I knew that it was going to be a tough night and that my blood sugar's were running a little bit higher than usual. And I had had, you know, high, high carb, high protein meal, and I knew I was going to have to be probably correcting until like three or 4am in the middle of the night. And he was like, Hey, why don't you just give me your PDM? And I'll wake up and I'll correct you if I need to.

Scott Benner 57:10
That's nice. So yeah,

Katie 57:12
he's he's basically as good as it gets.

Scott Benner 57:16
Yeah. Did you like make breakfast or do anything? Like as a thank you?

Katie 57:20
Oh, yeah, no, he's, I do probably 95% of the cooking and

Scott Benner 57:27
then you don't owe him a thank you at all.

Katie 57:31
I'm like he, he can't he can't really even make eggs. So I I'm sure the next day I made probably something. You

Scott Benner 57:39
could take care of your blood sugar. He could figure out how to make eggs. I think he's, he's slow play. And you know, I can't cook thing. My son was like, I can't cook. The whole time he lived here. He moved out. And it's like, a weekend later. And he facetimes he's asking me a question about food and like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm just preparing meals for the week. I was like, you son of a bitch. I was like, it's like, he's making chicken and broccoli and rice. He's like, I'm packing up in these things. And I'm just going to take him to lunch. And I'm like, you could have cooked like, I think I think you're just getting snowballed. You know what I mean? Like, there's a guy he can cook. He's like, Oh, look at me. I'm so bad with eggs helped me Katie.

Katie 58:19
You know, I? I thought maybe but I don't think so. Our third date, he tried to make chicken alfredo. And it was just the worst thing I've ever eaten.

Scott Benner 58:32
What do I cap your earning potential? Why did you come back for the fourth day?

Katie 58:37
Um, you know, he's outside of his cooking skills. He's He's basically the perfect, perfect person. For me. He's just, he's a rock. He's everything that I really feel like I missed. Throughout my childhood and teenage years. He's very stable, very cool, calm and collected, supportive, understanding and funny. And he's, he's great. He's great.

Scott Benner 59:02
You got to thank your mom, she set that bar really low for you. You're like, he doesn't yell. It's terrific.

Unknown Speaker 59:14
Oh, that's funny.

Katie 59:18
Well, and he he also I'm not working right now. So and he works full time. So I mean, it's the least I can do is take care of the house. Right. Maybe I

Scott Benner 59:26
hear what you're saying. You got a soccer on the line? I gotcha. Don't worry. It's perfect. That's what I would do to actually I was a stay at home dad for 20 years. So

Speaker 3 59:32
I'm with you. Yeah, yep. Oh,

Scott Benner 59:36
I'm just seriously, I'm so happy for you that you met somebody. And that you could have that new experience. That isn't the one that you'd had. So, so if we're going to be four and that you got to reshape the experience with your father. I mean, that was Yeah, that's really nice as well, you know, yeah. Do you think so? Here's the big question. Do you must do you ever think about Who am I going to be when I'm apparent? Like, am I going to be the one that rebels against? What happened to me? Or am I going to be the one who does the thing and doesn't even realize they're doing it? Did you ever worry about that?

Katie 1:00:12
Um, yeah. So I think, probably from a pretty young age, I started started having that conversation with myself of like, if I become a parent one day, what type of parent am I going to be? That's definitely something that I want to be very conscious of, like, deciding, deciding how I'm going to parent and what I'm going to take the good from some of the things that I learned, like, take what happened to me and take what happened, the family dynamics in and really become a better person for it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:00:50
Good for you. Well, I mean, just I will tell you, as a person who grew up in a sometimes unstable situation, that there are times you'll you'll do things, and it's going to be up to that guy that you're married to look at you and go, Hey, that's not what you want to be doing right now. And it's hard not to like, it's hard not to. It's hard to hear it sometimes if it happens to you. I hope it doesn't happen to you. But I used to yell when I when the kids were younger, I would yell about things. And my wife would be like, Why are you yelling? And I'm like, I don't I'm not. And she's like, are you definitely are. And I just realized, like I was yelled at constantly as a child. And so

Katie 1:01:29
great is that he's totally that person who, who would be able to do that?

Scott Benner 1:01:34
Yeah, so Well, that's excellent. That's wonderful, actually. So anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to?

Katie 1:01:42
Um, I don't think so. I just want to also make, I guess, mentioned that I just started on the Omni pod five after listening to your podcast. So that was an awesome step for me. I started in October. And your podcast is what got me looking into it.

Scott Benner 1:02:06
Thank you. Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Plus, allow me to take this moment to say see Omni pod, the ads work. Let's, you know, keep going baby. Not that they're not. They're very, they're lovely partners. Actually. I was vamping just now killing time. So that I can tell you that I just got an email 29 minutes ago, it starts off. Scott, I was introduced to Juicebox Podcast six months ago, after starting over yami pod five and your episodes about Omni pod five helped me quite a bit goes on and on. She says a lot of lovely things. It would be self serving for me to continue to keep reading. I just wanted to ask you, Katie, if you tried the Omnipod five episodes that I have to get started with?

Katie 1:02:49
Yep, I sure have. Once I once I knew that I was gonna be able to get it. And it kind of went through my insurance and everything I binge listened to all of those Omnipod five episodes, made sure that I you know, got as much knowledge as I could before I started on it.

Scott Benner 1:03:07
It's very important how you set up your algorithms. When you when you begin, I mean, on the podcast what we're talking about, but the truth is any of them I don't care if you're a looping or using Ctrl IQ or on the pod five or whatever, like bad settings will lead to outcomes that you don't want. So, Episode 736-730-7738 are about setting up your Omni pod five

Katie 1:03:33
when I was on the 670 G the to slim and now this I've been on kind of three of the main insulin pumps in the market right now.

Scott Benner 1:03:43
Taking a tour.

Katie 1:03:45
Yeah, taking a little tour started on the 670 G and quickly changed my mind about that one and then I was on the to slim for a while. Or recently switching over.

Scott Benner 1:03:56
That's interesting. What made you go from control IQ to Omnipod five

Katie 1:04:01
mainly the the tubeless aspect. I guess when I got the cheese when my biggest concern about the Omni pod was that it just wasn't quite as smart or the algorithm wasn't as advanced. And so that was the main reason that I started on the to slim and then the tubeless or I guess the tubing ended up being more of a deterrent than I expected it to be. I really felt like especially because I've been running a lot recently. I'm a runner. And so for certain, like athletic type things. It's much easier with the Omni pod. Cool.

Scott Benner 1:04:39
That's excellent. I imagine. Like from my perspective, that's how I imagined it that people might have been like, you know, a year ago like Well listen to control IQ has an algorithm. I'm gonna go with that. But I wish I had, you know, but it's interesting how that wasn't like you didn't think about the tubeless part until you were on a tube And then you were like, I wish I didn't have tubing. Yeah. So it's interesting. Listen, it not for nothing. I'm sure control IQ works great for a lot of people. But, but it's interesting what becomes important to people along the way. So I'm happy for you, I'm glad it's working well, you're happy with it.

Katie 1:05:19
I'm really happy with it. It's been, it's been great. So far, I've had a pretty decent a one C reduction with that. Um, and, you know, I'm not forgetting my insulin pump anymore, which happened to me a lot. With the T slim I, you know, unplug it to take a shower or luggage to change or whatever it was, and like, forget it somewhere. It actually happened on on the night before my wedding for the rehearsal dinner, I like left it laying on the bed in the hotel.

Scott Benner 1:05:50
Katie, you would think that people listen to the ads and think, oh, he made that up. When I say you could disconnect to take a shower and then forget to put it back on. And potentially, you know, go into decay, you know, like, or anything in between or end up at your wedding rehearsal without the ability to Bolus? But point is, is that really happens to people. Like because yeah, and you're and you're a season, like you've had diabetes for freaking ever. So it's not like you, you know, you weren't new at it and forgot your pump lay in there. Just happened? Yeah, I probably

Katie 1:06:21
hadn't forgotten it for years before that night. But of course, you know, that night was

Scott Benner 1:06:27
I'm not saying that every time you get out of the shower, or people like I forgot, like, you know, but it's stuff that can happen. I'm sure every doorknob didn't rip out your infusion set, but the time it happened, I bet you were like son of a bitch. You know, stuff happens at inopportune times, most most of the time? Well, I, I can't tell you being serious, like, this is a very kind thing for you to share. Because I don't imagine that your story is that uncommon. And yet, you are the first person in nearly 900 episodes, to say these things to me. Like, I thought it was very brave of you to speak about your family dynamics the way you did.

Katie 1:07:11
Yeah, well, thank you, I appreciate that. I think I'm really as much as it was hard at the time. But like, I'm really thankful for the place that I'm at right now in my life. And as much as I can look back and wish that I had changed certain things. And obviously, if I could, you know, snap my fingers, and I could have taken better care of myself during all those years. Who's to say that, even if I had, I wouldn't be dealing with the same thing. 10 years from now, or, like, I don't know, if I would be the place where I'm at now, if I hadn't gone through what I did,

Scott Benner 1:07:45
yeah, I don't think you want to play what if with that, you know, it's just, there's no good that's going to come out of that. Everybody's path is different. You know, we all don't get to be a, I don't know, a Kardashian. My focus, I wouldn't really want to be one of those. But that I mean, the point is, is like, you know, like, I think everybody thinks their life's gonna be magical. And, and it'll be easy and fun and, you know, fruitful and, and then when the realities come to pass, it's, it's what you do, right, and how you respond and what you do next. And you've just, I mean, for being on your own you. I mean, there's part of me that thinks, Katie, I don't know how you didn't die in a ditch. And there's part of me that thinks like, I can't believe she accomplished. Like, I think you have a secret you haven't shared with me yet, but I'm not. But probably not. Huh. just worked out.

Katie 1:08:37
I think I I think I finally kind of hit rock bottom at one point and just told myself that, you know, and I guess I got I got scared enough. So it is crazy as that sounds, that's that's what happened. And I just told myself, Okay, no more, we're not doing this anymore. So, you know, I'm, I'm happy that, that I was able to dig myself out of that hole. But it definitely it took a lot of work. So

Scott Benner 1:09:06
well, I imagine. Yeah, I imagine it was a lot of effort, and probably a lot of fits and starts and things that felt like failures along the way, and not a lot of not giving up I would bet.

Katie 1:09:16
Yeah. But also, I mean, I think looking back, I had to unlearn the mindset that certain blood sugars are bad or good. Or if I, you know, today, if I see a blood sugar of 300 I'm not gonna harp on myself and say, you know, oh, I just shouldn't shouldn't look at my Dexcom I just, you know, don't want to deal with this. Like, no, I had to learn that it's okay that your blood sugars are gonna go high. Just deal with it when it happens. See it, fix it and just move on.

Scott Benner 1:09:45
Yeah, and know that self flagellation, right like you see the number and then you spend a month being upset at yourself over it, and ignoring it the whole time, instead of just going alright, well, my blood sugar got out of hand today. gotta fix this and I'll get back to it. That'll be that Yeah, yeah.

Katie 1:10:00
And I think that's really just like a mindset of almost perfectionism, just thinking that, Oh, if my blood sugar goes high, then I just can't do it at all, like, so I really had out of out of that mindset that, that if it isn't always perfect that it's just going to always be back.

Scott Benner 1:10:20
Well, there's that saying, like, let's see if I can do better with this thing that I did with the frog in the pot analogy, because that I really, I mean, Katie, I bet on that one like, three, I'm gonna use it. Well, it's a great analogy, had I gotten it out the first time and not fumbled through it in and screwed it up and almost use the lobster in my reference? For some reason? I don't know. But what do they say the enemy of good is perfect. Or something like that? You know? laughs Yeah. And so maybe it's the enemy of good enough. Oh, Christ, am I going to Google this light in the pot? Alright, why not? I'll google the enemy of great is good. Good is perfect. I guess people say it a lot of different ways. It just means that when you're, you can't put yourself in a position where if it's not perfect, I'm not going to do it. You know, and then you don't look back later and say, oh, gosh, I did this thing. And it didn't work out. Right. I will just, I'll use the podcast as an example. Like, I didn't know what I was doing. Katie, when I started making this podcast, like I didn't, I had never owned a microphone in my life. I never recorded my voice. I didn't have the right computer. I didn't have any of the hardware I needed. I didn't have I had nothing. And I didn't know what I was doing. And I just did it. And I was like, That was alright. And then I think I'd like to do it like this, maybe this would make it a little better. And I adjusted on the move. And I never beat myself up over what I did the day before. I never looked back and went, Oh, I should have asked this. Or I shouldn't have done that, or should have made that stupid joke. Like, I don't even care. Like, like, I know what the podcast does. I know the importance of it. And I support it no matter what. And I learn and I change and I adapt as I go. And had I not had that attitude. If I would have said it's got to be right before I start than it never would have been right. I never would have started.

Katie 1:12:21
That's when that's how you do end up, you know, perfecting certain things and getting things you know, great. Yeah. But we're clearly evolved over time. And it's turned into something that's amazing for the community.

Scott Benner 1:12:35
So you're saying something nice to me. But what I'm gonna say is like the irony is, is that it is the imperfection that leads to better. You can't imagine perfection. You don't even know what it is like yet, right? So you're like, you're trying to make something perfect. When you don't even know what that means. And then the idea of like, this will be embarrassing, or it'll be a waste of time or it'll be it's not the case. Like you should just get up in the morning and just go and what happens happens and you learn and you grow and you build that's it. All right. Just like that dead frog. Or the live one. I guess the live one learned. Katie, it doesn't matter how dead frog I'm so close to calling this after dark dead frogs. I can't wait for you to explain that to your husband. You're like, listen, the title has nothing to do with me. The guy's an idiot. But we did have a lovely conversation and he made me laugh. Yeah. And he made me laugh. Oh, excited.

Katie 1:13:32
So excited to listen. And he always listens to the podcast in the car with me. So he's thrilled that I am doing this today. He got out he left. He's like I'm gonna leave for the whole day. And you just set everything up and have fun and call me once it's done. He's just he loves your podcast. Also,

Scott Benner 1:13:48
let's that's very nice for him to support you and listen to it like that. I mean, I do make it easy, because it's a wonderful podcast, but that's not the point. It's very nice to him to support you. Are we local to each other? Katie, I haven't had lunch yet. You want to go get lunch? Are we anywhere near each other? Or you're in Texas? Oh,

Katie 1:14:04
I'm in Texas. Are you in Texas? No,

Scott Benner 1:14:06
not in Texas. Never.

Katie 1:14:07
Okay, so then probably.

Scott Benner 1:14:08
I'm not flying there to have a meal. That's for sure. Although I would that'd be a cool get giveaway, wouldn't it Katie?

Katie 1:14:15
That would be a pretty cool giveaway. I think you just found your next idea.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:19
How would I do that?

Scott Benner 1:14:22
Think about it, Katie. Let's think together for a second. You're a bright person. Are we talking around raffle? Yeah, what do I do with the money? Can I buy something cool with it? Yeah, I'd love to give it to a charity. No, cool. I don't want to keep her money. Okay, so let's think about this realistically. I fly to where you are. And we have a meal And we spend an evening together. All right. Okay. And you and it's a raffle you buy into, okay, it's $100 for a raffle ticket, I give half the money away to a charity. So nobody, like, talks about like, half seems like a lot, but a little bit of the money. Calls yourself, I don't want to be called names. Okay. So let's say 100 People put in $100, the big $10,000. So we got to pay for airfare. I gotta get put up somewhere. I have to have some security with me. Because one of you. Like, I don't want Katie's Mom to win the lottery. You know what I mean? Because she's gonna hear this and like,

Katie 1:15:42
She's not listening to this. Trust me.

Scott Benner 1:15:46
Oh, that would be too supportive. Right, Katie? So, so I gotta make so I gotta, I gotta get airfare out of it and a hotel, something like that. And then, and then what if we made it a tear? So like, if 100 people did it, then I would just come do it as a personal thing. But if we could get 1000 people to do it, hold on a second. Now, we're talking now we're talking a lot of money. And now maybe I could do a thing when I arrived at a place. Like instead of a dinner, maybe it would be like, like a like a like a like a an event of some sort.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:25
All right, it'd be fun.

Scott Benner 1:16:26
And then and then for that much money. I could probably cover everybody's food, too. Yeah. All right, Katie, well, think about this. 1000 people's a lot. There's no way for you to 1500 people.

Katie 1:16:40
I don't know you've got a pretty big platform. I think there would be people willing to buy those tickets. Katie, I

Scott Benner 1:16:47
think I'm not. I don't think I'm monetizing this well enough. What I just swapped myself With That Calculator.

Katie 1:16:54
Charity, it's for charity.

Scott Benner 1:16:56
How about if I start doing a thing for like, $5 a month where you get access to like, unedited, like episodes, where it's just like cursing and whatever. I also think about, you know what else I was thinking about today? Katie, you wanna help me produce the show for a minute? Before we hang out? Yes. I was thinking about doing like a, like a bitch session series. And not like, no, no, like, people can curse if they want or whatever, let people come on and really complain about diabetes. I think it might be cathartic. Oh, that would be great. Like, really like ranting and raving about it. Like just going? Like, like, just being really like, I don't know, there's part of me thinks that would be good.

Katie 1:17:37
You're gonna have diabetic spouses all over the country thanking you for that.

Scott Benner 1:17:42
Because they don't have to listen to the complaints. I was thinking about that. And I was also thinking about, I'm actually I'm gonna definitely do that. So I'm not gonna say that out loud on the podcast, because someone will rip me right off. So I'm not letting that happen. Okay, let's figure this out. Would it be a cruise? Now? Nobody wants to do a cruise, right? Actually, I don't want to be in a bathing suit in front of all of you forget that.

Katie 1:18:09
Our Cruise is still a thing after COVID?

Scott Benner 1:18:13
I mean, yeah, that's where you go to get COVID. Still, you can still readily available on a cruise ship

Katie 1:18:19
or not put a bunch of immunocompromised people on a cruise

Scott Benner 1:18:23
ship. You think that's a poor idea?

Katie 1:18:26
Maybe Maybe let's let's keep thinking on it?

Scott Benner 1:18:30
What if what if we forget the whole thing? And people just like 1000? People just send me $100? Wouldn't that be better?

Katie 1:18:37
I mean, sure, that'd be great.

Scott Benner 1:18:39
Don't worry, I'll find something good to do with the money. I promise you.

Katie 1:18:43
You have fun advertising that Do you

Scott Benner 1:18:45
know I tried wants to get a giveaway actually did try to get a giveaway through us. I don't want to say who this was through somebody. And their attorneys wouldn't let it happen. And the idea was, we were going to do like a raffle. And then I would live at your house for a weekend and help you with your diabetes stuff. If you won the raffle, but the

Speaker 3 1:19:07
attorneys wouldn't go, Bernie said that they could not do that. So

Katie 1:19:13
what was the reason? Were they were they worried? It's because

Scott Benner 1:19:15
of the nature of their business. You can't be seen as enticing people to do something. Okay, so it's hard for me to be more specific than that. But a monetary prize is not legal. So that ends up being the problem.

Katie 1:19:37
I think you've done though, I feel like I heard a podcast where you've done that, I guess, the prize of basically getting to like text you or ask certain questions about diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:19:48
Yeah, that's fun that I'll do. But I'm talking about a big thing where I fly to a place and then I get there and we do a whole thing together. But then when you know what happened, I'll get COVID and like some kid will get COVID and I feel a little head will fall off or something and then they'll be mad at me. I don't want anybody be mad at me.

Katie 1:20:06
Do you say your head will fall off?

Scott Benner 1:20:07
Your head could fall off if he gets sick or something, you know, from Haiti, you don't know anything about medicine, obviously.

Speaker 2 1:20:13
But yeah, you're a new symptom of COVID that I'm unaware of your head just falls

Scott Benner 1:20:16
off. Could happen. Just just, you know, thumps it's just, it's rolling around. And do you think you would say it? No. Your head fell off. And it started rolling around. Would you see the now you'd be dead already? Right? Yeah. What's not trying to make sense of ridiculous things? That's,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:37
that's a waste of time.

Scott Benner 1:20:38
Anyway, I still one day, I feel like I'm going to do this. Imagine if Jenny and I showed up at your house.

Katie 1:20:45
Just like surprised rang the doorbell.

Scott Benner 1:20:49
Oh, that'd be crazy. Like you won the raffle. But nobody told you. What if it's like everyone who entered the raffle was just on Saturday morning thinking it might be me and the

Katie 1:20:59
con degenerates.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:01
Does she do that?

Katie 1:21:02
She's done that. Yeah. Where she just like shows up at people's houses.

Scott Benner 1:21:06
Does she also beat up her staff or something or yell at them or something like that?

Katie 1:21:09
Yeah, maybe don't do that. But I don't

Scott Benner 1:21:11
have a staff.

Katie 1:21:14
Don't Don't do that. But you could show other people's houses.

Scott Benner 1:21:18
Okay. By the way, I don't know anything about all I'm just generous. I'm not saying she did that. Okay, so we do a gift. Alright, so I do a raffle. And the raffle is a certain amount of money. And you could win that I surprise asked show up at your house on a certain day. And we hang out for the whole day together. And, and if and if we double the price Jenny shows up to

Katie 1:21:43
Jenny is great. You should definitely include Jenny's no

Scott Benner 1:21:46
reason to say Jenny's great. I'm great. Jenny's fine. Just relaxed. We don't need to know Jenny's

Katie 1:21:51
Jenny. Jenny's horrible. I don't even

Scott Benner 1:21:53
arable, but I don't know why you got to speak well of her while we're talking about me. It just takes the sunshine away. Now. Just kidding. Jenny's terrific. And yeah, so like, like, what would that be? $200? No, that's a lot of money. $100 is reasonable. You enter into the drawing. And blah, blah, blah. Maybe we like? I don't know. I'll figure it out. This sounds like something that's never going to happen. Okay.

Katie 1:22:21
Brainstorm on it. Brainstorm.

Scott Benner 1:22:23
I'll see what I come up with. We'll put your husband in charge. He seems like he's a he's a decent guy.

Katie 1:22:28
Well, yeah, you do have some ideas for you. What do you really? Probably

Scott Benner 1:22:32
what I need is hours, Katie, I need hours in the day. I got this email today from this company. And they're like, do you want us to edit your podcast for you? And I was like, No, I don't want that. But there's part of me that was like, Yes, I do very much want somebody else to edit my podcast, but they were like, I don't know. I just I'm not doing it. But it sounded very attractive for a couple of minutes. I don't want to pay for that. You understand? I?

Katie 1:22:58
Yeah. I mean, it's it's extra time in your day, but you probably like things done the way that you like things done, right.

Scott Benner 1:23:03
Also, I'm old. What am I gonna do with extra time?

Unknown Speaker 1:23:07
Seriously, how?

Katie 1:23:08
How was the art I'm doing?

Scott Benner 1:23:11
She's good. She's doing really well in school, getting good grades. And a lot of her projects are turning out really well.

Katie 1:23:19
Awesome. sent off to college. Right. I haven't listened to some of the more recent podcasts. But I figured you've got a little bit of extra time now that now that she has flown the nest

Scott Benner 1:23:28
I do. I do have extra time. She's a little like, had a little lower stomach pain this week, she was talking about which we are still trying to figure out like cramping, maybe. But other than that she's been doing terrific. And like the work she's doing, this is a big thing. She did not as a person who spent a lot of time being artistic as a child. She went to, you know, basically art school. And I just saw a pastel that she did. That was really terrific. So she's, she's really immersed herself in it and she's taking it very seriously and teaching herself so vertical. If she's doing great. I won't tell her that you asked because she'll say Please tell your people not to think about me.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:14
All right, hold on one second for me. Okay. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:24:22
I really appreciate Katie coming on the show today and being so open and honest. Thank you so much, Katie. And I want to thank better help and remind you that@betterhelp.com forward slash juicebox you can and will save 10% On your first month of therapy. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, and for the diabetes Pro Tip series, the bold beginning series to finding diabetes and all of the management series within the podcast. Check out juicebox podcast.com. Look in the menu at the top or go into the feature tab in the private Facebook group. There are lists of them everywhere there's going to be something you're looking for go check it out

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